NBA / Jul 30, 2009 / 3:26 pm

Accept it, Toronto: You’re a small market franchise

Chris Bosh

Chris Bosh

2007: “Toronto as a market won’t ever be New York, L.A., Boston or Miami. Playing in a small market while not being a flashy guy isn’t a kiss of death, but (Chris) Bosh‘s low profile might not resonate with H.O.F. voters if he doesn’t win big (like Reggie Miller) or put up amazing numbers (like Karl Malone and John Stockton).”

2009: “More than LeBron, Wade or any other superstar, Bosh seems most likely to change teams in the much-hyped 2010 offseason. The NBA’s resident self-marketing guru and undercover comedian is just waiting to break out in a bigger market, i.e. New York, Miami or L.A.”

Two times I can remember calling the Raptors a small-market team, and two times I’ve incurred the wrath of the Toronto faithful. The arguments are the same: We’re the 4th-biggest city in North America … We sell out every Raptors game … What other team can say a whole country backs them? … Blah, blah and blah.

Whatever.

It’s time to face up to some truths. As a city, Toronto is not a “small market” by definition. Fine. But the Toronto Raptors are unquestionably a small market franchise within the framework of North American professional sports. (Might as well throw the Blue Jays in there, too.) And you can’t really argue against that.

How many times were the Raptors on ESPN, TNT or ABC last season? Three? Four? That’s probably even going too high. Even when the Raptors are good, like when they were one of the Top-3 teams in the East a couple years back, they have zero TV presence and zero profile this side of the border. In their most recent heyday, Raptors’ playoff games still got the NBA TV junior varsity treatment.

Bosh, the face of the franchise, is a great player and a charming personality and a nice guy. Do you know why he’s nowhere near as popular as Chris Paul or Ray Allen? Because he plays for the Raptors. Bosh has had to become the Black Seth Rogen and basically live on Twitter and uStream just to get some kind of mainstream attention, and he’s still less famous than Tay Zonday. But you know if CB4 played for the Heat or the Rockets with that same personality, he’d be a media force. The sight of kids or grown men outside of Canada rocking Bosh jerseys is rare enough — actually catching somebody in a Jose Calderon or Andrea Bargnani jersey would be like seeing Bigfoot walking down West Broadway.

The closest the Raptors have ever come to being a legit big-market organization was when they had Vince Carter in his prime. Vince was the most exciting player in the world for a time; and even then he could only get the Raps so close. When Vince left, so did the Toronto’s chances of reaching actual “big market” status. And when Bosh is gone next summer to, yes, a bigger market, and Hedo Turkoglu is the focal point of Raps’ marketing, expect that status to drop even more.

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  • Ross

    And they’re Canadian.

  • -SEIZ-

    lol ok… so are more than half the teams in the NBA.

  • Mark

    Ignorant article. Toronto is the 7th biggest city in North America, has great ownership, is paired with one of the most economy prove businesses in the world called the Toronto Maple Leafs, is one of the best cities in the world. For such a small market they are one of 5-6 teams spending any money. What is your opinion based on other than nothing.

  • Rapsfan

    What a waste of time reading this crap.

    “Accept it, Toronto: You’re a small market franchise”

    Oh but you are when Vince was around…..

    “The closest the Raptors have ever come to being a legit big-market organization was when they had Vince Carter in his prime. Vince was the most exciting player in the world for a time; and even then he could only get the Raps so close. When Vince left, so did the Toronto’s chances of reaching actual “big market” status.”

    Toronto is headed to the right direction unlike most NBA cities .

  • Mark

    Austin, how about we bet if Bosh stays you come watch a Raptors game courtside with me on your ticket and I he leaves I’ll buy courtsides to any game you want! You got my email. Put your money where your mouth is because you are a joke.

  • -SEIZ-

    and define market. Are you sure you know what that means?

  • C. French

    How many times did the Clippers or Knicks make it on National TV last year?

  • Steve A

    For as big as Toronto is, in a lot of ways it has become NBA obscurity….It could be better..but it’s not. They are trying though, need to give them some credit for that!

  • People of Toronto

    Austin,

    how about we bet if Bosh stays you come watch a Raptors game courtside with me on your ticket and I he leaves I’ll buy courtsides to any game you want! You got my email. Put your money where your mouth is because you are a joke.

  • Kevin

    @French — Even when the Knicks aren’t getting games on TV, they still get a lot of media coverage. Their player/coaching moves get attention on SportsCenter, national magazines/websites do stories on “What’s wrong with the Knicks?” etc. The Clippers are a whole other story because their owner has tanked the team for 20 years and they play in the same city as the Lakers. The Raps are, like AB said, just irrelevant.

  • Adrian

    Since when was Miami a “large” market at anything? They cant sell tickets!

  • -SEIZ-

    How many people outside of NY are rockin any current Knicks players jersey? Your whole argument is flawed? Simply put no one pays attention to the Raptors because they are a less than mediocre team. It really has nothing to do with market…

  • sxm

    I see more raptors gear down in sxm then i do Knicks…Toronto is better then NY down in the N.A. islands…

  • sxm

    one more thing….i watched more raptor games then knicks games on tv on the island

  • http://nerditry.com nerditry

    @AB : You knew you were poking a bee’s nest and this should be fun. No one fan takes their sorry team more seriously than the Raptors fan.

    FYI Raptors fans, you got BARGNANI at #1 instead of being smart and trading the pick. You lose Bosh next summer, then what?

    How come no big free agents come to Toronto? Hedo doesn’t count cause he was chasing the money. I’m talking top-tier names.

  • TruthBurns

    Austin how dare you disrespect the great mecca of TORONTO?

    You shall be punished!!

  • Ian

    tay zonday is awesome

  • Michorizo

    They should move to Vancouver

  • Kobeef

    @ austin.

    You couldn’t have pulled off a more stereotyprical
    “the world revolves around us” american attitude if you tried.

    It’s exactly this attitude that causes americans to wear Canadian flags when they travel internationally.

  • Citizen B

    You know how your a fan of a crappy team? When your argument to other fans is that at least your team is a big market team…..pathetic.

  • NC

    Some of your points are fair for certain … I have issues with a few though.

    I really believe that most out of market jersey sales are generated by electric players like Vince, Kobe or Bron (with the exception of maybe Duncan). Bosh really isn’t that type of player and will never generate those types of sales outside of TO or anywhere else he plays.

    “Bosh has had to become the Black Seth Rogen and basically live on Twitter and uStream just to get some kind of mainstream attention” … come on … that’s just who he is. You don’t become the “black Seth Rogan” just to get mainstream pub. You’re born a joker.

    The Raps had a lot of US media coverage in the Vinsanity days like you said. And while you’re right that that didn’t happen as much in our Atlantic Conference title year it did happen more than a few times (I remember seeing ESPN at the games).

    To be honest I don’t think these conversations can truly happen as the US rating system and Canadian rating systems are completely separate entities are they not? I remember a cool interview with Mark Cuban about NHL ratings and how people in the states tend to underestimate it when in fact it blows away college hoops and such in real viewership (in fact here it is … http://www.thestar.com/columnists/article/171418). If you expand on that and assume that we’re not just hockey crazy nomads and that a large part of that “4th biggest city in North America” is also watching the Raps then you can certainly imagine that our market must be a lot bigger than you are giving it credit for.

    Anyway, whatevs … good players are coming here again and that’s really all that matters. I believe there is a basketball renaissance happening in TO and Canada right now and that’s a good thing no matter what. Good for the NBA and good for DIME. Your Canadian sales will go up. Speaking of which … where’s my new issue yo!

    Great read as always.

  • Brown

    I’m Canadian, and I agree to a certain extent, but AB, you’re talkin’ out your ass on this one.

    For the most part, Americans have ZERO interest in Canadian teams, no matter the sport, so why would ESPN, TNT or ABC show Raps games when they’ll get better ratings showing any mediocre American franchise (and as we know, there’s lots of those).

    Do you seriously think Seth Rogen is less known in the mainstream than that Chocolate Rain dude (I had to google his name just to find out who it was)? Seth Rogen’s been in so many mainstream comedies over the past few years (which have all been extremely successful), it’s hard NOT to know who he is, even if people refer to him as “that dude from Superbad.” He was also the butt of a joke on the last episode of Entourage, one of the most popular shows on television.

    How many Americans rock Euro players’ jerseys? I’ll bet you don’t see too many Andrei Kirilenko jerseys outside of Utah either. So what’s your point?

    Face it AB, you’re grasping at straws on this one.

  • Serious?

    How many teams in the L? 30?

    So Big market: LA, Chitown, Boston, NY (for no reason remotely relating to their actual team) maybe Miami? So….who’s next? Houston? Dallas? Philly, Detroit….? And you are telling me that you don’t think T.O. is on par with this tier? Dawg, what you smoking? Not only is it basically the basketball focal of an entire country, it probably has the most and arguably best un-official online presence (raptorshq), and trust me the most fans internationally. (see raptors nation)

    Not throwing no wrath, just seriously questioning your judgment, knowledge and basically interest in the sport…

    Peace

  • NBAF@N

    Hey Austin. You must be a small market writer then if you’re wasting your time on Toronto. Please close your mouth when you no nothing.

    Instead of empowering propaganda that Toronto sucks, perhaps you should instead work towards a better future. After all, success for Toronto is success for the NBA. In fact, Toronto is a holy grail and can lead to access to a marketplace in an entirely different country.

    Nevertheless, stop playing the cyber bully and a go use your time for something more worthwhile.

  • Terrible Article

    Wow,

    This article had absolutely no value whatsoever. It was a waste of my 3 minutes, which is the same as what the ladies say about Austin Burton.

  • http://dimemag.com Austin Burton

    By the way, I grew up a Seattle Supersonics fan and just moved over to the Indiana Pacers. (Add the Seahawks and Mariners on there, too.) I know all about following a small market team. And there’s nothing wrong with it if you just accept the reality. There are only a handful of truly big market teams, and Toronto just isn’t one of them.

  • NC

    http://www.thestar.com/columnists/article/171418 … hey once again … make sure you read this. Expand it to bball … cut it into a quarter even.

  • Brown

    Never mind the Seth Rogen thing. I re-read the article and you were saying Bosh is less popular in the mainstream than Chocolate Rain.

    How many mainstream fans know anything about the NBA aside from the MEGA-STARS? We all know Bosh is not on that level, but so is 99% of the NBA.

  • Taj

    Accept it Milwakee, Utah, Memphis, Charlotte, OKC, etc… You too are small market franchises, so don’t bother making any offseason moves to put you in the hunt for a Chip!! Lay down and play dead!

    Come on Austin… As a Seattle/Indiana fan, this is weak coming from you.

  • utahJZZ

    this is a terrible article

    im from new york, and t-dot’s pretty mucg exactly like new york with a shit load of highways..

    the only reason the raps aren’t ever on ESPN is cuz there always riding lebron’s dick

  • http://dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @Taj — I never said teams like the Raps/Pacers shouldn’t try to improve. In fact, for the last week I’ve been angry at the Mariners, thinking they were gonna give up on the season by becoming a “seller” in the trade market (before we landed Jack Wilson). Every team should be trying to improve. The article was directed at the Raps fans who get all bent out of shape anytime somebody says their team is small-market.

  • Nick Adams

    Let’s see – 1. we weren’t on national tv last year because WE SUCKED. The Knicks are a pretty big market, don’t remember watching them on national tv either. 2. Bosh doesn’t smoke nearly as much weed as Seth Rogen.

  • sh!tfaced

    ……..EH? LMAO.

  • Jerkbag

    Arrogant American thinking like this is what put your car companies out of business. Too arrogant to see that the a ‘market’ is the WORLD. and not the United States. True, Raptor games are never on ESPN. But how many knick games are broadcasted in Spain? in Italy? even France or Great Britain? none. Its a big deal when the Raptors play over there. Theres are reason why New York, LA, and Chicago are never selected to represent the NBA in the pre season trips.

    Stupid Americans. Lets all sit back and watch you fall

  • Kevin

    @nerditry — Hedo was chasing the money, and he also liked that Toronto has a big Turkish community. If those two don’t fall in place, there’s no way he goes to T-Dot. Big time free agents don’t want to play in Toronto because they’ll become invisible, and Raps players who become FA’s usually leave. Small market, people, deal wit it.

  • NC

    Alright jerkbag … take it down a peg. You’re just playing to the article.

  • mike

    this article is a joke and u dont know shit about markets
    get a life

  • Mikey B

    Your argument is so pathetic, what team web site gets the most hits on NBA.com.

    You sound like a typical american who doesn’t realize their is actually a world outside their bubble.

    Toronto on its own is a not the best market for a team, but Toronto + Europe + Asia + (possibly South America) = the biggest market in the NBA.

  • Kevin

    @Nick Adams
    You do know national TV networks decide what teams they’re putting on BEFORE the season, right? Why do you think Phoenix was on TV so much even though they sucked, too? The Raptors were coming off a playoff run going into last season. When it was time to make the TV schedules, the Raps were good and they still got no play.

  • Gene

    Austin,

    Do you really know what the meaning of the word “market” is? One would think that a reporter would know how to use a dictionary…

    I heard a stat that (back when the Raptors were good), that their website got by far the most hits of any team on NBA.com. Small market?

    If the Toronto/Canada (33 Million+) market is small, then any NBA market outside of New York, L.A. and Chicago are miniscule to non-existent by comparison.

    Look up the word. Please.

    You’re making the rest of your fellow Americans look really bad.

  • Jerkbag

    No. I fail to see how he can make the argument that NY is the mecca for basketball but Toronto is a small market. When the only difference is that New York is a larger city in general and has more streetball courts. Streetball contributes nothing to real basketball. People who dominate half court runs can never make the varsity team. There is a big difference between random ball players and basketball palyers.

    Back on topic, the writer believes that New York is a lager market because it ganers more NATIONAL (American) attention. And that jersey sales will perhaps be larger due to a larger New Yok ‘die hard’ fanbase.

    Conversely, you don’t think there are loads of grown men and kids wearing Raptor jerseys in Toronto? in Vancouver? in Edmonton or Calgary? Have you ever even been to any of these places? Toronto is one of the most beautiful cities in North American, perhaps even moreso than your beloved New York because theres much less crime and gang violence, super diversity and everything is generally harmonious, save for the garbage pickerupers. (The Torontonians know what I’m talking about). Anyways, doesn’t the writer of this article see that when Yao Ming scores a basket, half of china jumps up? Or when Bargani hits a 3, Toronto and Italy jump up? What happens when Stephon Marbury scores a basket? 5000 people in New York light a joint? haha. Idiot American I’m educating you.

  • Taj

    AB – Your motive is Understandable… I believe you know that theres a few Raptors fans/Canadians that tune into DIME regularly and it seems as though you wanted to piss them off. Not sure if it’s because the Raps have been active this off season or a Torontonian stole your girl, it seems to have come out of left field… Anyways, keep on turnin them screws!

  • Collaboro

    Yeah I disagree here, The rap’s ratings are great on Sportsnet / TSN / Raptors TV in Canada.They have even got so popular in the north that even the CBC picked them back up last year.

    T.O will never be large ‘US’ market, simply because its Canada.

    It will be interesting through the next 10 years, when T.O will be bringing in revenue in Cdn dollars vs. US.

    When they are selling out and the Loonie has a 30% premium over the Greenback, does that classify them as large market?

    Last but not least, when a true International dynamo comes across the seas to play North American BBall, whose to say it won’t be #1 on his list?

  • http://tomtoronto.ca Tom Toronto

    We’ve already beat this dead horse enough, but since it’s summer and there’s no news, let’s go over it again.

    If you’re talking “market” then Toronto competes with the best, in every sense. Big fan base, large city, huge attendance. There has been a die hard “market” behind the Toronto Raptors since 1995, despite having a wretched team more seasons than not.

    But what you’re talking about has nothing to do with the market, or the money. You’re talking about the media. Toronto doesn’t get the press of the Knicks, Celtics or Lakers, so they’re called a small market team.

    You can bring up a thousand reasons for that, and I’m sure you’ll hear them all in the comments section of this inflammatory post. First of which is that the Raps play in a completely different country. American media is bias enough within its own nation, how much do you think they care about what happens north of the border? How many Americans can even name our Prime Minister, let alone our starting 5?

    So by American media standards, Toronto will stay a small market team. When the team is good, it will always be a “surprise” or a “Cinderella” team to the American sports pundits, too lazy to do their research. When the team is bad, no casual NBA fan outside of Toronto will even hear about it.

    So why should Canadians care? Since when do we care about American mainstream media coverage? The real heads know what’s up, Dime shows Toronto tons of love (while throwing the occasional jab), and that’s enough for me.

  • Jerkbag

    Oh yeah and what has your ‘Big Market’ team done to show its advantages of being a “Big Market’ team? Nothing. The Knicks still suck. LA can’t take advantage of being a big market team enough to resign Odom. Miami is not a big market. Chicago has yet to make a big splash. Oh btw why dont you write an article about ex-basketball players being horrible gms. and the best gms are the ones who’ve actually gone to school and know a thing or two about business. Really, if an athelete leaves school after highschool or even 1 year of university how can you honestly think that he has the same capabilties of running a multi million dollar franchise the same way as someone who has goen to business school and dealt with business their entire life? Maybe thats why Steve Kerr and the suns suck balls

  • rob

    TV does not prefer Raps games because Canadian ratings don’t go towards American broadcasters. If you look at one game on TV, the highest ratings will come from the markets that are involved in that particular game. So since the Raps market does not count for American broadcasters, that will lead to less viewers for those broadcasters when airing a Raps game. The only way to counter that is by getting a superstar, which is where VC came into play. He was able to generate viewers from all across america based on his name. But the reality is that VC of that time period was close to being Lebron of this tme period (not quite the same level, but close). And that type of presence is not a common trend with 99% of NBA players.

    You do have a valid point that Toronto is a “small market” even though you did a horrible job of backing that point. But since all of Canada backs the team, plus Italy and Spain and now Turkey, I think we are already with our current “World” standing.

  • People of Toronto

    Did someone say Miami is big market? Have any of you taken a geography class in your life? Market size is not relevant as the world is a smaller place due to the internet etc. Market size matters for 2 reasons
    1. Big cities are more appealing to American players
    2. Its a lot easier to make money with more people to draw from.

    My point is Toronto is agian the 7th biggest city by population in the world. The Raptors finished 6th in attendance and 7th in operating income (Forbes) so it is a big city with a healthy cash flow.

    The one point of the article that is true is most Americans don’t care about whats across the street let along across the border so they will never care about Toronto and thats fine. But that doesn’t mean Chris Bosh doesn’t care. Did any of you hear him on the radio laughing at a NY radio host asking for him to come play for the Knicks? He laughed….Again if you don’t care about the Raptors fine but don’t say no one else does because thats wrong. Canada loves our team and Chris Bosh!

    Austin did you see how I substanciated my argument with facts. Its called journalism…Look it up. And I know you are sour grapes about Seattle but its a far different situation than Toronto. Our owner and Stadium Rock!!!!!!

  • Sonic Reducer

    I can see what you’re saying about the team being a small market team, despite the city itself being a major market, with multiple pro sports teams. But I think that’s the case of a young franchise. It takes time to build history. Time and championships. You just can’t expect the public perception of everyone (fans, athletes, media) to be the same as franchises with lots of history like the lakers, knicks etc… Players are not exactly rushing out to play for the Griz or Bobcats either.

    I think another issue is the perpetual problem of seeing things with an American bias, through USA tinted glasses if you will. This goes for the players, fans and networks, and apparently media too. TNT, ESPN, ABC will broadcast games they think will bring in the most advertising revenue. If they feel that’s Miami because they have Wade, then it’s Miami. As far as they’re concerned, it’s certainly not a team based in Canada, where the potential for revenu is smaller. But in Toronto’s case, they might be making a mistake. It’s a vicious circle afterall. People feel Toronto is a small market in part because it isn’t given exposure by the predominantly American media. But given a chance, I think they could really explode. So I do see what you’re saying, but at the same time I think it’s more an issue of perception, that TO is somehow less relevent than its American counterparts, and this perception is strong Stateside. Give the franchise time to build some history.

    There are no allusions to Toronto being in the same league market-wise as say the New-Yorks and Bostons of the league, but I think they can more than hang with the Indianas, Sacramentos and Charlottes. Hell, I would even go as far as to say Miamis too, but that might be my Canadian bias speaking ;P .

  • Gerald

    You are actually inadvertently condemning the ethnocentricity of your own country. You know the (ha ha, this kills me) the greatest country in the world…hell why don’t we say Universe. You know what, I don’t know if that even covers it.

    Listen you guys are fed that crap from when you’re wee little babies, and low and behold it seeps out in glorified mass emails, like this article.

    The only reason that Toronto doesn’t get the coverage is because of two reasons. One, last year they weren’t good, and two because they are Canadian…except now that we are becoming the UN of the NBA, we are potentially bigger than your big market teams…I’d rather know that Italy is watching us than Topeka, or how about Slovenia watching us over say wherever Mother Ship you think you’re from.

    Listen, why don’t you read a book or something. Something that will expand your mind. It always blows the lid off me when somebody,(who thinks they’re a writer,) doesn’t read. If it wasn’t for spell check, would you even have a job?

    You’re one of those guys who think Vin Diesel is a great actor, and four dogs sitting a round a table playing poker is great art, I get it, but do you really have to subject the rest of the world to your lack of culture?

    When David Stern is busting his arse trying to make this an International game do you think you’re doing anything except tearing that down? When the NBA is spending millions of dollars internationally to increase the profile of this incredible sport, what do you do?
    “Hey man, Toronto isn’t cool. I said it all right. So shut up.”

    I can smell the beer and cheetos from here.

    The only reason you’re writing this crap is because the Raps are making some noise this off season and some of the free agents have indicated that they love the city of Toronto.

    You know what? I hope you don’t take the invite of the guy who commented earlier. Don’t come to T.O., please, don’t be there for Caribbana, (the biggest Caribbean festival in the world outside of the islands) when most of the NBA is there. A few years ago Shaq headed up the parade. You don’t deserve the great food, music, or beautiful women.

    And when the Raps pull it out of the toilet bowl this year, don’t watch, because when you do, you’ll hear these words whispering in the back of your head and realize how many ways you’ve let your culturally centric ego limit your life.

  • George W Kush Sr

    In the NBA, and North American sports, Toronto is a small market, but who cares?

    Kevin Durant, small market.
    Danny Granger, small market.
    Al Jefferson, small market.
    Lebron Fucking James, small market.

    The best person to compare him to is Roy. Roy is States side in a “small” market. What do you know about him that you don’t know about Bosh? Are you telling me that if Bosh was in Portland, ESPN would be showing you non stop highlights of Bosh’s jumpers? Bullshit.

    Unless you’re playing in some media mecca or on a championship squad you’re profile isn’t getting any bigger if you’re not dunking on everyone or scoring 40 points per night. And it’s been confirmed that Bosh is better as second fiddle not top dog, so he wouldn’t be a media darling no matter where he went. Don’t believe me? Elton Brand. That dude even played in LA.

  • Jerkbag

    oh yeah and Americans can’t pronounce the name of the city right either. its not TOR-ron-TO its more like tron-to. The first two sylables are usually slurred togehter

  • Gene

    Austin,

    In case you haven’t looked up the word “market” yet:

    Getting national U.S. media attention and market size are two completely different things. How much media attention does the rest of the world get on ESPN, TNT, etc.?

    By your rationale, 6 billion+ people would also be considered a “small market”.

    Please stop making Americans look so ignorant. I know plenty of Americans who know how to use a dictionary.

  • Jerkbag

    “The sight of kids or grown men outside of Canada rocking Bosh jerseys is rare enough — actually catching somebody in a Jose Calderon or Andrea Bargnani jersey would be like seeing Bigfoot walking down West Broadway.”

    - GO TO EUROPE. if you can find it on a map

  • geoff

    this headline could have been, Face it (insert like one of 20 or so teams here) you are a small market franchise. why write this to T.O. other then to envoke response which i guess is the point of your job so well done. You kno which team has the most die hard and one of the largest fanbases and decided to throw a random jab in their side. who knows why, who cares why, raptors are sick. GO RAPS

  • timmy D

    This articles are so stupid. We all know the different markets and if you go by media coverage then there are only like 5 big market teams in the league. If thats the case then I guess teams and players in “small” markets shouldnt even try.

    Oh and most people know who Tim Duncan and Tony Parker are and they are just in little old San Antonio

  • Jerkbag

    read this.

    http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/mickeal/2009/07/29/europe-can-be-a-great-career-choice/

    written by one of ur own. an American

    read it and realize that the US is not the be all and end all. Actually, the world a favor and take a plane and fly to Europe. Then re-write this article. You’ve never been to a beautiful city until you’ve been to Paris, Barcalona, Venice or even London is better than shitty New York. At least i wouldnt get shot there.

  • GoEasy

    austin,
    i’m usually the one usually the one defending you guys when people hate on your articles. but in all honesty, as an american, this was a pretty bad piece of writing. It’s based on opinion and contains no facts. You seem to be confused as to what a sports market constitutes.

  • Jerkbag

    Bosh is actually pretty bad too btw. On defence he’s the weakest twig I’ve ever seen. and on Offence, he’s a ball stopper and doesnt do anything for 5-6 seconds before he jacks up a 20 footer that bricks. I wouldn’t be sorry to see him go, you can have him back; stupid American

  • I come in peace

    Hi all

    Ok, lets be frank here, professional b-ball players are in this for the money, let’s not kid ourselves, that includes you too AB. After money, then comes chance of making more money via being the face for some local brand names or promote big ass companies in their local Ads. So the more ads these companies put in that city, the more money there is for grab by the STAR of that city. So this is what Market really means.
    Population is the key. And that is why there are 2 NBA team in LA, and NY still served as the HQ of NBA.
    Toronto has ppl, we have big ass companies( Black berry that you are using, yes, its from Ontario, Canada ), and we have many Canadian and US brands spend good money put ads in our network ( like Coke, Pepsi, Microsoft, Apple etc… ), so what makes you, Austin, define Toronto as a small market ? I cannot follow your rations.
    As for why Raptor is not shown on ESPN or TNT, well, last time I check they are US network aren’t they ? So these network have to broadcast teams that comes from cities that fulfill their ” market ” demands. Therefore, if ESPN and TNT is technically a US network, why would they want to impress Americans and their AD customers by broadcast a Canadian team? On that note, that is why ESPN broadcast a lot of Cav’s game in the recent years, in case you didn’t notice.
    In return, Canada actually have our own Sportsnet, TSN, and a handfull of other other sports themed network that serve ” CANADIAN” networks, and guess what, they actually shows a whole lot more Raptors games then NY or Atlanta or UTAH, a coincident ? I guess not. But we do broadcast Cav’s and Laker’s game occationally. Cause they sell AD spots.
    I will not comment on FA issue as its being discussed to death many times. Oh, and just a reminder, EURO dollars is much stronger then USD lately in case you are not aware. I guess Raptor organization rather sell a whole lot more CB4 and AB7′s jersey in Europe then in States, as Europe as a whole is a much ” Larger ” market then individual cities in US. I guess other GM can only hope they can sign some of our Euro FA to share the pie a few years later.

    Peace !

  • Silverselectjd

    BREAKING NEWS! lAMAR ODOM re-signs with Showtime! Lake show back2back!!

  • I come in peace

    That is so expected.

  • E$

    Free Chris Bosh!

  • mike

    who’s tay zonday?

  • Piper

    As a born hater, I was really looking forward to reading this article. Instead, it reminded me of how I used to write my high school essays. Just verbal diarrhea with no real substance in an attempt to get to a certain number of words. If you’re going to write articles for a credible online source, then you’d think a bit more homework would’ve been done. It blows my mind that there is no quality control whatsoever on this site. So here’s my take:

    I agree that Toronto is not a top tier franchise a la Knicks, Lakers, Bulls. Maybe Houston is a bigger franchise and possibly Philadelphia and Miami. But the real reasons these teams are more popular franchises are because they have a legacy of winning and usually 1 or multiple flashy players.

    Toronto’s made it to the 2nd round once in their history and Bosh might be funny on Youtube, but he is in the same mold as Karl Malone. Solid but boring. There are rarely any Raptor highlights that are worthy of a SC highlight reel. We’re hoping that is going to change with some of the new talent we have but at the end of the day, Toronto has never had a flashy offense and likely never will.

    Second, there is no doubt there is an American bias and that unless something extraordinary happens (eg. we take over Michigan), there will always be a tendency to promote US teams that depend solely on the US market/viewers etc. The Raptors don’t really need the US to be a financially viable team. Why? Because they get plenty of dough from the fanbase here in Canada. And by the way, if Austin hasn’t noticed, there are more people watching and playing basketball outside the US then within the US. So if I was a GM for a team and looking for ways to tap into some new revenue streams, would I be looking at the US or giving a shit about that saturated market? Hmmm…I think I might look to Europe who are basically starving for a team to call their proxy team. Sound familiar?

    At the end of the day, the worst part of this article is that it is so irrelevant. Who actually cares if you’re in a big market or not. All that matters is Championships (ie Duncan probably gives a rat’s ass about the size of the market in San Antonio). The CBA dictates salaries and at the end of the day, the only piece that matters with respect to income for players is endorsements. And when you hit the $100M mark over your career, do you really care if it’s $110 vs $120? I’m pretty sure most guys making max salaries would give up a soft drink deal to win a championship. That’s when the real money comes in anyway.

    So with that I say to the editors of Dime, turf this idiot and hire someone with a point. This article is stupid and irrelevant and guys like Austin shouldn’t be privileged enough to actually be able to write for a real magazine. This guy is pure hack. Please Dime, hire guys who do some real analysis!

  • Simon

    This is Stupid!!!!!!

    You’re talking apples and oranges. Toronto is a huge market, it’s unquestionably the fourth biggest in North America. It has an incredible amount of media, business, population, and is a key portal for the NBA to the international community.

    You’re absolutely right, though, that the Raptors have no media presence in the USA. This doesn’t mean that they are a ‘small market’ though, which is where I think you make your mistake. The fact is, most Americans have no interest in Toronto. That doesn’t make it a ‘small market’, it makes it a foreign country.

    Do you think American’s would have an interest in watching the Beijing Tigers? Does that make Beijing a ‘small market’?

    Peace.

  • Piper

    Whether by design or by coincidence, nice work by Austin on getting the most comments (possibly the most readers) on this article vs any of his other recent articles (twofold at least). Either he is an idiot (which I’m pretty sure he is) or he has some basic intelligence and knows how to push certain buttons to boost his readership. Either way, somewhat ironic.

  • Ganguro

    Man if it ain’t about a stick and puck Toronto don’t give a f**k, ya feel me! Leafs everyday all day, no matter how bad they are. Ball is extremely low on the totem poll in this city. And all you cats from Toronto know this! Try finding a B-ball playoff game on regular cable…TSN, Sportsnet and the SCORE they rather show full tilt poker or hockey…SMH. That’s why we’re looked upon as “small market”.

  • I come in peace

    Nicly put Piper !!

  • http://www.geocities.com/dagomardeg Dagomar

    This is a brutal article on so many levels. The most obvious:

    First, the definition of a market is, roughly, a system that allows buyers and sellers to exchange things. When you are talking about a city as a market you are talking about a local system of exchange. Understand, then, that if Toronto is a the FIFTH (not the fourth, think about it) largest city in North America with a fanbase that devours raptors products and sells out the ACC, it is a major market. Particularly if you expand that market to Canada; doable because the Raptors are Canada’s only team.

    Second, if you want to distort the definition of a major market as a city which can develop a brand that is followed and invested in by people outside its geographic region (you see how bizarre this is), then your argument is still flawed. Bosh isn’t as popular as Chris Paul because HE’S NOT AS GOOD. How popular was Vince? Popular enough to be one of the biggest names in the league; popular enough to be termed the next Vince Carter. Raptors games are never on TV because the Raps haven’t had an exciting player – or a great team – since Vince left. And can’t you see how flawed this argument is when the Spurs and the Cavs are on TV all the time? Are those major markets? Of course not.

    Anyway, this article was pretty silly, especially for a VC fan.

  • John

    This article was probablly written by some idiot who considers himself worldly because he’s been to New York or LA. So the raps have been on ESPN 3 times, big shit asshole, how many times have the heat been featured on european networks? Outside of the US, which teams do you think have a strong international appeal? I will bet that the Raps are a top 3 brand outside of North America and sell more merchandise then the shitty Heat, Hornets, Nuggets, Blazers etc. Perhaps when you decide to finally finish high school you’ll understand that Toronto is far from a small market franchise, especially when they consistently finish top 10 in attendance and are the 6 largest market in North America.

  • jwhit

    it is true the Raptors have almost 0 presence outside of Canada, their games are never on TV in US in Westrn NY and at last Raptor game when I got beer the guy was surprised to see a NY license. Fact is most people where I live follow Cavs and the Knick/Nets are the games we get here. Raptors need to extend their media presence and most of all WIN some games!!! They make almost 0 effort to attract anyone outside of TO to be a Rap fan. Sure they have a great following in TO but fail in US where rest of league is!!!

  • http://www.geocities.com/dagomardeg Dagomar

    the next Michael Jordan*

  • jwhit

    And might I add TO is not a small market by any means it is actually one of the top cities in North America and is in clos proximity to many other large cities in the North East as well!

  • sh!tfaced

    Hah! Lots of backlash here. Opened up a can of worms.

  • Gene

    Toronto has the 4th largest population in North America (U.S. + Canada, excluding Mexico). Only New York, L.A. and Chicago have more people.

    Furthermore, the Raptors are the only Canadian team in the NBA, so once could argue that its home market is 33 Million+ people. That’s not even considering the huge international following of the Raptors.

    So, at worst, Toronto has the 4th largest home market in the NBA and at best, it has the largest home market in the NBA. That’s not small by any definition, except yours (and other people who believe people like you).

    Market size and whether (seemingly biased) American sports writers want to watch a team are completely different things.

  • jwhit

    Where the article is mistaken is that they failed to say the Raptors have the presence in the US (where the NBA mostly is) of a small market team…and it is true for Canadians on here I live just over the border and you might not realize that just an hour away there is 0 presence of the Raptors, sure you may not need US markets but then again why would you pass up more presence?

  • AB_40

    miami is not a big market. orlando isn’t a big market

    chris bosh isn’t franchise player material. but hey who is?

  • Aaron

    Toronto is a BIG market. It’s just not the SAME market.

  • sh!tfaced

    Backed up by 33+ million people? Big market? Yeah, right. The star player, Bosh, barely makes it the All-Star game. He just gets voted in by coaches because of technicality due to the lack of big men in the Eastern Conference. He even had to make that dumbass cowboy ad to make people vote for him.

  • Al

    The reason why the Raptors are barely on in the States, is because the American broadcasters choose not to air their games. I think this could be because of a couple reasons, a) Stern figures most of Canada is getting a good chunk of their games so their exposure is pretty good overall compared to other teams, why not throw the Clippers a bone show them instead, b) there is an actual bias against Canada in the U.S. and the networks don’t think people will watch them play or c) the reasons put forth in above article….

    a) seems plausible, but you would think that Stern/the NBA would give a team with international stars and an exciting offense more airtime down south. Is he worried about Americans becoming Raptor Fans? Fans taken away at the shallow fanbases like the Milwaukee Bucks or the Minnesota Timberwolves, to their detriment.
    b) seems like an honest answer, since the Raptors seem to be the punchline for a lot of ESPN/SI analysts. If this is the case the Raptors need to be put on U.S. national television for at least 2 games of the season, like the rest of the teams. If they play better maybe more games later,
    c) is just asinine

    so the answer is b, but b is heavily influenced by a….

  • Swirsky’s Soldier

    I don’t know why people are trying to argue that Toronto is or isn’t a “small market”. In hockey it is (maybe the biggest) in basketball its not. However, thats why I love what Colangelo is doing… he’s taping into the “world market”. While every other team is going local and national looking for viewership, Colangelo is looking global for viewers. Spain, Turkey, Italy etc. Do you know how much attention Houston gets in China because of Yao? Thats what BC is attempting in multiple countries. That viewership translates into $. Americans won’t notice, but the Raps bankroll does.

    So the Americans can ignore the Raps and call them irrelevant. But its just gonna be that much sweeter when we beat your team.

  • Eli Bach

    Accept it Austin, you have a small penis.

  • NC

    Many great points here (@Tom Toronto @Piper). Lots of anger and passion too. Great “small market” reaction. Congrats on your biggest off-season blog post.

  • Gene

    sh!tfaced:

    So, you believe that how many all-star votes a team’s player gets, determines the home market size of a city? Let me guess, you’re American?

    I’m starting to wonder whether I should continue to defend Americans, when people keep saying how ignorant they are…

    Perhaps you should get a job writing for Dime, they seem to want to hire informed people like you.

  • Sean

    Here’s the truth,

    Usually when somebody goes out of their way to bash someone else, there is usually jealousy involved. There is no other reason. The title of the headline was only created because dude has issues with the current team he is following. It’s almost as if he has an inferiority complex.

    It’s all psychology. This stuff has been proven. Dude the article was pretty pathetic, but it does show that you have issues.

    Raptors are loved worldwide. Go to any country in Europe and find people rocking raptor jerseys. David Stern himself said how the Raps website is the most visited website in the NBA.

    No facts, nothing. Just a lame attempt to seem important.

    PEACE

  • Mark

    I didn’t read all of the comments, but you’re right to say that Raps fans will jump on you for this post. And you deserve it. Because what you wrote is bullshit.

    First of all, the only valid way to test your theory is to put an eastern conference contender (that the media pegs as such BEFORE the season) in Toronto and see what happens. Until then, you’re speculating.

    Second, you apparently don’t know what a market is. I’m guessing that this has been covered by other people so I won’t rehash it, but please actually look up the word and learn it’s applications before you include the word in the title of an article.

    Thirdly, television coverage. They have their own network available on Canadian satellite and cable. Furthermore, this team, as composed, wouldn’t be covered by the national US networks even if they were in New York. The team doesn’t have the star power, Bosh included.

    Fourth, and perhaps most importantly, is why you think that what you’ve posted actually matters in any way. You draw no conclusions other than to say that the team will invariably lose players because it’s located in Canada. Maybe you should have considered the more logical extension of your thoughts: where players will go if they want to win a championship. The correlation between spending luxury tax money and winning is pretty direct at an elite level. It doesn’t always work of course (see: Knicks), but going over the tax is a prerequisite to a championship, and therefor so too is the ability of a team to spend over the tax for a run of several years. You want to talk about the impact of a small market on a team? This is it, right here. And is this a problem for Toronto? Nope. Not even close, because the MLSE (the owners) will EASILLY

  • you are a joke

    are you a retard or just from miami?

  • steve

    How can you argue something when you don’t even know what you’re talking about?

    If there’s a ton of people in the market, then it’s a big market as simple as that. Toronto has a very big city, and 30+ million people in the coutry rooting for them. REally nothing to it other then that.

    Yes we had 0 games on national television when we were a top 3 team. The television netweorks make the tv schedule before the season starts, and we were a 27 win team the prior year.

    Vince Carter didn’t change our market size, and it sounds like you don’t even know what a market means. By the sounds of it you would probably think Cleveland is a big market.

  • Joe Buddy

    This “small market” sells a helluva lot tickets and makes a helluva lot of money every year. Just because most Americans don’t watch the Raptors (or don’t get to watch the Raptors), doesn’t make them a “small market” team.

  • NC

    @Austin Burton … You know the Pacer fans will be just as crazy as we Raptor fans when they finally get interweb connections down there.

  • amercan idol not

    AUTIN BURTON SAYS

    I am an attention whore

    Write me dirty emails please

  • NC

    Buddha bless infrastructure!

  • Jim

    Wow, a hack writer on a blog busting Toronto because he knows it will bring the online ire of Raptors fans (an online BIG market and he knows it), unfortunately the ‘Peter Vescey’ method of bashing Toronto when they’re doing well went out of fashion when Vince was traded, nice try though, hack.

  • amercan idol not

    nY sucks

    I LOVES europe

  • amercan idol not

    AUSTIN BURTON SAYS

    What is a big market?

  • Jerkbag

    This article was probably written by Katz. Just used Burton’s name cause Austin usually isnt as full oh shit as this

  • legend_ary

    sh!tfaced says:

    Backed up by 33+ million people? Big market? Yeah, right. The star player, Bosh, barely makes it the All-Star game.

    Jump-shooting PFs tend not to be the most popular players in fan voting; but your argument falls apart when you consider that VC was the leading vote getter a few years in a row while in T.O. That wasn’t all fans at the ACC.

  • Mark

    I didn’t read all of the comments, but you’re right to say that Raps fans will jump on you for this post. And you deserve it. Because what you wrote is bullshit.

    First of all, the only valid way to test your theory is to put an eastern conference contender (that the media pegs as such BEFORE the season) in Toronto and see what happens. Until then, you’re speculating.

    Second, you apparently don’t know what a market is. I’m guessing that this has been covered by other people so I won’t rehash it, but please actually look up the word and learn it’s applications before you include the word in the title of an article.

    Thirdly, television coverage. They have their own network available on Canadian satellite and cable – you can watch every home game if you choose. Furthermore, this team, as composed, wouldn’t be covered by the national US networks even if they were in New York. The team doesn’t have the star power, Bosh included.

    Fourth, and perhaps most importantly, is why you think that what you’ve posted actually matters in any way. You draw no conclusions other than to say that the team will invariably lose players because it’s located in Canada.

    Maybe you should have considered the more logical extension of your thoughts: where players will go if they want to win a championship. The correlation between spending luxury tax money and winning is pretty direct at an elite level. It doesn’t always work of course (see: Knicks), but going over the tax is a prerequisite to a championship, and therefor so too is the ability of a team to spend over the tax for a run of several years. You want to talk about the impact of a small market on a team? This is it, right here. Logically then a poor, small market team such as the Raps couldn’t possibly afford to go over the tax to build a winner, right?

    Well, to test that I refer back to the only chart I could find, from 2008:

    ***http://lh5.ggpht.com/_pQnuvxgFXPk/SlVhrF0PQLI/AAAAAAAAAHI/y_nyQ9mvNpo/s1600-h/teamvaluations%5B5%5D.jpg

    Dunno if that link will make it in (probably not, but I added the three * at the start just in case), but basically it tells you this: Toronto is in good shape financially. Good income, good value for the franchise, average debt. Puts them at about 8-11th overall depending on what category you want to sort by. Oh, and they’re backed by one of the most powerful financial forces in the country, the Ontario teachers pension fund. 87 billion in assets. Just thought I’d mention that, because any agent talking to their clients about potential destinations will too.

    In the future, please do some research and actual thinking before you post. It took me 10 minutes to look a few things up and write this. Might want to give your readers the same courtesy.

  • Scott

    How many times were the Knicks on National TV last year?

  • amercan idol

    I ama italian
    I willa nota watch gsw games anymore

    Belinelli and Bargnani are ina Canada

    Ima watch Toronto games. Toronto isa big market.

    Screwa New Yorka Nicks

  • geoffx2

    “actually catching somebody in a Jose Calderon or Andrea Bargnani jersey would be like seeing Bigfoot walking down West Broadway.”

    or like seeing a chris duhon jersey in toronto…? or a steve blake jersey in utah? or even a deron williams jersey in LA? how bout a gasol jersey in washington?

    what does this statement mean? ill answer since you wont, nothing.

  • NC

    An interesting way to look at this might be to see how many issues of your mag get sold in Canada as compared to other American markets. Obviously we’re not all Raptors fans or even NBA fans (could just be bball fans), but it would be interesting to check out the voracity of bball in Canada from that angle.

  • amercan idol

    In other news Warriors intend to keep George

    Discuss

  • Nukky G.

    Before AB dropped this article, I actually put together a little spreadsheet and did a little research to find out who the “big markets” actually were (I was bored at work). I based the research on a few main elements and then gave each element a value of importance and then finally gave each team a final score.

    Team Worth – 20%
    Attendance Records (Home AND Away) – 20%
    Operating Income – 15%
    Revenue of Team -15%
    Television – 20% (Split between local ratings and nationally televised games)
    Population of greater metro area: 10%

    LA finished 1st.
    Toronto was 11th.

  • Nukky G.

    PS: Charlotte finished last with 4.15 out of a possible 30 pts.

  • Jack R

    What a waste of time.

    Ignorant article that appears to be written by a complete LOSER!

  • inmypants

    well, you dont hear us saying that about the los angeles KINGS in the NHL. when do you ever see them on NATIONAL television?

  • Jefferson Po

    An absolute rubbish of an article, not only in content but also in writing style. You must have attended a small market school.

  • T.O. Champ

    Haha, this is the most ridiculous article ever. Why would you single out Toronto for this article? Allen Iverson stayed in Philidelphia for years when he was the premier player in the league. You’re talking about Bosh like you know him.His best friend is now on the team, and Toronto is a nicer city than any of the gun touting slums you call cities in the U.S.. He doesn’t want to go to a loser team like the Knicks, he’s young, but not getting younger, and doesn’t have time to be part of a long-term rebuilding project like that. Secondly, the cap is lowering and Miami won’t have enough cash to give Wade and Bosh max deals. Please think before you write. And don’t quit your day job.

  • Jefferson Po

    LMAO 106 comments so far, when your usual “articles” (I use that term very loosely) get what? 5-10 comments?

    Small market? You’ve been made a fool!

  • Dime mag loses readers because of you!

    Good point T.O. Champ! Toronto has won the world series in baseball and has lured tons of high profile baseball talent away from the U.S., and the Maple Leafs do the same for hockey.Actually, it is a huge market in Toronto, and its only disadvantage is the lack of media coverage the team receives from U.S. media. He would be under a microscope in new york and criticized every time the team lost a game (which would probably happen often since NY sucks
    I agree with an earlier post, get this writer out of here. He knows nothing and just writes his ridiculous personal opinions about cities. Why wouldnt you write about…what’s CP3 doin in Now Orleans? Word to describe this author: egocentric, mentally challenged, uninformed.

  • the cynic

    Bosh is nowhere near as popoular because he isn’t as good. The fact that he plays in Canada has protected him from the reality that he isn’t even near a franchise player, but gets paid like one

  • Shrink This

    Where the heck did this post come from Austin? Someone from Toronto say something to your girl?

    Are you worried that Toronto’s new and improved High Five’n White Guys might beat your boys in Indiana?

    Not catching enough heat defending the Spurs these days?

    Dimemag.com readers have been putting up with the new guys cutting their teeth writing opinion pieces on the site lately, which, unfortunately have left a little to be desired.

    I hope you avoid writing bitter sounding stuff like this in the future. I’m sorry your Sonics are gone man, I really am. But seriously AB, I expect better than this.

  • the cynic

    also, Media presence and small market are not related. Its only the preception created by the media that classifies them by your standard as a small market. If you don’t think that’s true then look at the amount of liberal media converage in america; you would think the entire nation was libral and only loud, old, dumb white dudes make up the entire conservative base

  • http://www.imeem.com/dialogs/standaloneplaylist/?p=ztKqfEZj smoove chips

    AB dropped the ball on this one.plain n simple.His shyts usually on point.this was a str8 brick.

    CB4 while nice won’t command that much attention in htown.He is what he is,but like someone said,nobody’s watching him shoot js all day.

    toronto’s a great team with prolly more loyal fans than even the knicks I’d argue.Market is a function of media attention and fans checking in regardless.

    they got fans for years,and just coz dime and the crew don’t have to cover them to make bread does’t mean they don’t exist.for the us press to cover them like they stay on lebrons or kobes nuts,they’d have to draft a dream team and have a monster seasons.

    your equation of big market is fan love and US coverage.
    mistake? sure.
    it’s the off season.i give you one.

  • THE chuck swirsky

    accept it austin burton, you wish you were a raptor fan.

  • http://shootingbasketballtips.blogspot.com/ Dodge Taylor

    Getting in on this late since I’m Australian … which is no doubt another small market. :-)

    I think Dime was just short on comments this week so Austin wanted to show how many he could get to an article. 114 and counting for a story not involving LBJ or Kobe … good going Austin, well done!

    Or, this could be linked to Shaq’s appearance on WWE on Monday, every good storyline needs a ‘heel’. Wrestling fans you know exactly what I’m talking about.

  • Bob

    Worthless Americans, please make your laughable, obese country disappear.

  • chris

    What a stupid article. What does the amount of media coverage a team get in the US have to do with anything? The Raptors get tons of media coverage in Canada. If the Lakers, Knicks, and Celtics hardly get any media coverage in Canada, by this guy’s logic they are “small market” teams as well.

  • chris

    In terms of total media coverage, the Raptors get more media coverage than any other team in the league. American media isn’t the only media.

    For a mid-season, every day practice, most teams will have maybe two media members there to interview players/coaches. Toronto will have about 10. We also have more media for the post-game press conferences than any American team. The amount of coverage the Raptors get on television and newspapers is staggering in Canada. They may not get much media attention in the US, but most US teams don’t get much media attention in Canada.

  • Diego

    Damn, Austin. Something tells me your article got linked to the local Toronto daily online newspaper!! But you first time readers, Dime is actually one sweet mag–online and hard copy!

    Like smoove chips says @ post 115, AB is usually right on (and a lot better than the recent newbie Dime writers–ugh). But AB’s focus here just obviously is US market, again as pointed out @ post 115.

    And re. US national tv, all we get rammed down on us week after week in the US is LA, Miami, Cleveland, San Ant., and less than a handful of other teams.

    That being said, on another note, I think history has shown a that lot of unworldly US players just don’t want to play in Toronto (and previously Vancouver), which has hurt the talent level of the Canadian NBA teams–judging by the number of NBA title banners hanging from the rafters in Canada.

  • Gene

    Diego:

    I don’t think that anyone’s arguing that Canadian teams don’t get much coverage on U.S. television. People are arguing, however, that Toronto is not a “small market”, compared to most of the other cities in the U.S; only 3 American cities have larger populations than Toronto.

    I’ll re-post what I wrote earlier concerning this:

    Getting national U.S. media attention and market size are two completely different things. How much media attention does the rest of the world get on ESPN, TNT, etc.?

    By your rationale, 6 billion+ people would also be considered a “small market”.

    Please stop making Americans look so ignorant. I know plenty of Americans who know how to use a dictionary.

  • Gene

    Diego:

    As for U.S. players not wanting to play in Toronto, do you think that articles like these (that misinform its readers) improve that situation?

    Here’s the truth (I’ll once again re-post what I wrote earlier):

    Toronto has the 4th largest population in North America (U.S. + Canada, excluding Mexico). Only New York, L.A. and Chicago have more people.

    Furthermore, the Raptors are the only Canadian team in the NBA, so one could argue that its home market is 33 Million+ people. That’s not even considering the huge international following of the Raptors.

    So, at worst, Toronto has the 4th largest home market in the NBA and at best, it has the largest home market in the NBA. That’s not small by any definition, except yours (and other people who believe people like you).

  • Nukky G.

    This argument can and will go on forever so let’s just agree on this…Toronto is a MID-SIZED MARKET!

    See post 104…

  • john

    fuck off burton

  • bhatt

    Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/attendance

    Toronto is ranked 10th in the NBA in overall attendance – higher than: Boston, Phoenix, San Antonio, New Orleans, Houston, Denver, Orlando, and even Miami.

    Nuff said.

  • greed416

    I must say… who cares?

    we enjoy our team! were happy to have a basketball team than no basketball team!
    we have an amazing GM whos putting together an exiciting team!

    I’m just enjoying the game of basketball like many of our fans, who needs to prove anything!

    Austin Burton face it, you’re just a small-time columnist… you don’t write for elite publications like the NY Times…!!! HA!!!

  • Otto

    Dang Austin. You just single handedly-assassinated the Archduke Ferdinande and ignited an all out international incident by posting this.

    Notwithstanding this post which I think is a bit off, I’m still down with your posts because you always write with conviction and remain steadfast in your opinion even if everyone (a whole Country) disagrees.

  • CL

    haaaaaaatttttttttteeerrrrrrr @ the author

  • Dan

    The comparisons used in this article are quite terrible :

    Ray Allen has been in the NBA since 96′ and Paul is a flat out better player than Bosh (and i say this as a Raps fan). That is why they are more popular.

    As well, Toronto was an expansion team just over a decade ago. Every large market that you would be comparing Toronto to has been an established team for decades.

    With regards to the Calderon, Bargnani comment, how many non-all-star jerseys do you commonly find outside of their own markets? honestly, name me three.

    And understand how TV broadcasting works in Canada before you start questioning why the Raps are not on American networks.

    Toronto has a great fan base, a great ownership and the best GM in the NBA, give Toronto some time and they will prove what they are capable of.

    “actually catching somebody in a Jose Calderon or Andrea Bargnani jersey would be like seeing Bigfoot walking down West Broadway”

    how many non-allstar jerseys do you see anywhere outside of their own market?

    Ray Allen has been in the NBA since 96′ and Paul is better player than Bosh (and i say this as a raps fan)

    and who the hell is Tay Zonday.

  • sh!tfaced

    Aight. So maybe Toronto isn’t a big market in America. But the Raptors are one the top markets when it comes to the international market.

    @legend_ary:

    You’re right, man. Nobody dared to say Toronto was a small market franchise when Vinsanity was at its peak.

  • http://www.geocities.com/dagomardeg Dagomar

    What does it say that an article about this ostensibly tiny market generated such a huge response?

  • Dime mag loses readers because of you!

    At least you got your comments! I guess any publicity is good publicity, but your writing style is best suited for the National Enquirer. Let’s boycott Dimemag for this fool’s clear lack of knowledge related to basketball and the NBA markets.Also, tell your mom I still have her panties if she’s interested.

  • Sad

    Don’t know if it’s been mentioned but the vast majority of Toronto Raptors fans do not have access to ESPN…and ABC games would be simultaneously broadcast with CTV or another Canadian network..it’s apart of Canada’s CRTC policies. Therefore the vast majority of people who would watch Raptors games would not be able to watch the advertisements that are broadcast on ABC and ESPN, which makes the whole idea useless. You are an idiot. Go to university and get an education. A real one.

  • http://www.raptors.com Sad

    “Don’t know if it’s been mentioned but the vast majority of Toronto Raptors fans do not have access to ESPN…and ABC games would be simultaneously broadcast with CTV or another Canadian network..it’s apart of Canada’s CRTC policies. Therefore the vast majority of people who would watch Raptors games would not be able to watch the advertisements that are broadcast on ABC and ESPN, which makes the whole idea useless. Go to university and get an education.

  • therealest

    Austin…my man you’re not very smart. Big market status is defined by absolute size and revenue. Toronto is one of the few teams that does indeed sell out every game and continues to generate high revenue year after year. Plus Toronto is the 4th largest North American city (not to mention there are millions more supporters outside of Toronto yet across Canada). If that doesn’t satisfy big market support, then nothing will. You’re a fucking idiot really, since you appear to appreciate nothing more than “ESPN appearances”. As an earlier poster noted, how many times did the Clippers or Knicks play on ESPN (or TNT) this year?? L.A. and New York are the largest cities without question, yet they missed national telecasts based off of team production. Same goes for Toronto. You should Heath Ledger yourself…or at least stop writing.

  • dime rules

    thanks for the toilet paper dimebag. i printed this article out and wiped my ass with it.

  • Gene

    Austin,

    Next time, just say what you mean. If you mean to say, “I hope that Chris Bosh and other NBA stars hate Toronto, so that they’ll play in Miami”, then just say that.

    Even if people disagree with you, a lot of people would probably accept that that’s your opinion and then leave it at that.

  • http://asf@asdf.com Toronto Kagers 13 for life

    this kind of article explained why no one in the world like americans but americans themselves…

    please do some travelling around the world to see how popular toronto raptor is in europe, asia, and all.. that’s because toronto is such multi-cultural city, and we embrace that to the fullest.

  • Sad

    I just came back and re-read your article. In addition to the CRTC comment I made earlier, I must say this. I am more offended as a colleague of journalists than as a Toronto Raptors fan. How can you write an article on US-Canada Media relations without even knowing the basic fundamentals established by the CRTC?

    Also, I see no stats to back up any of your claims. Most of your arguments are circular and can be applied to almost any team.

    If your superiors are reading this. I honestly encourage you to fire him and find someone with credibility. Hell, I will be a columnist for free if you take this fool off, and I have the credentials to do a better job than he could ever do.

  • Sad

    One more comment, just because you’re a fool.

    Toronto Maple Leafs: The wealthiest, most followed and herald hockey franchise in the world. They are the biggest market. Even in the US. Along with the Montreal Canadiens. Guess what? None of their games are ever shown on NBC during NHL on NBC.

    Your media reasoning to support your small market claim has been destroyed in three posts.

  • XTC

    wow Austin way to bigot yourself completely, I know bad journalists try to write article to spur the pot especially in the offseason but your attempts at trying to lure Bosh away into an American franchise is pathetic. Your pathetic. As stated show some math and numbers in your claim, truth is you can’t because its all lies, as far as NBA team revenues Tor is 11th, we are 4th largest city in North America and one of the few teams that consistently sellout every game even though we have a huge market Hockey team and Baseball team. Tor is the Mecca of Canada and the entire country not just the city support our Teams.
    Now go DIACF.
    ~XTC

  • gigi

    simple minded americans ha. like many ppl have said above raptors are loved in europe due to its highly versatile roster. the team is a great representation of the city as well, i kno that doesnt matter in a basketball scents but in the “market” scents it sure does. toronto is the greatest!!!!! long weekend what what….

  • mmee

    Small potatoes. Okay…a big market like NY or Chicago has North America watching them on most nights. A so-called “small market” team like Toronto all the sudden has North America, Italy, Turkey and Slovenia watching their basketball heroes on TV. Now that’s a big market. You Americans always rationalize and quantify things based on American values…how close-minded.

  • chris

    A guy writing for Dime talking about BIG is hilarious. How much (paid for) circulation does DIME even get?

    Anyway, on Toronto….
    - it was actually one of the biggest markets in baseball (revenue, attendance) before the strike. The current state of the jays has nothing to do with the size of Toronto.
    - go to media school 101 and figure out how advertising works….and why ESPN doesn’t play Raptors games when ESPN isn’t in Canada.
    - MLSE is one of the richest organizations in professional sports.

    Further, how many NY Knicks after Ewing are going to get into the HOF? How many players from Utah or San Antonio?

  • bobbo

    It’s funny how people consider Miami a big market too. Nice weather? Good atmoshphere? Low taxes? sure. Big market? hell no.

    @bhatt post #126. Yes we’re only 10th in attendance. But our team was one of the worst teams to watch in the league last year. Give us a team like Portland, Dallas, Utah, Celveland or 90% of the teams above us and we’de sell out every game.

    Also if you are playing to 33 million fans (at the least, sometimes broadcast in other countries) every game then how are you a small market? You can watch every Raps game on tv anywhere in Canada. That would be like the state of California only having one team.

    Also this is one IMPORTANT point imo. The Raptors in 2008 made the 7th most profit in the NBA. This is a .500 team…. Every other team above them except Chicago, and New York (2 other big market cities) were mostly there because they had good teams for a while. Hell the Raptors are the 11th most valuable team in the league already and they havn’t even won anything. They’ve made one of the biggest jumps in team value over the last 15 years, and continue to keep growinig. If they had a good team they’de be near the top no doubt. That’s market size, not this other shit.

    This author probably wrote the article just because he knows how big the Raptors fanbase is, and would get hits. Fuggin retard.

  • city5

    If you were here I’de punch in your fat (probably) American head.

  • bobbo

    lol. They delete my post with a ton of facts in it. Nice Job…..

  • AK

    The author of this article is a grade A FOOL

  • Chainfire

    Toronto is not a small market team. That untrue notion is just perpetuated by American media bias and lack of national tv exposure for the lone NBA team outside of the United States.

  • Hudo

    19.”@ austin.

    You couldn’t have pulled off a more stereotyprical
    “the world revolves around us” american attitude if you tried.

    It’s exactly this attitude that causes americans to wear Canadian flags when they travel internationally.”

    haha soooo true

  • breignchile

    I am certain that the Toronto “hate” will generate a lot of extra hits to your site. But instead of writing a positive piece about the city of Toronto, the writer has decided to rile up the Toronto faithful with a negative story. Had the editors decided to publish a positive article, this website would have gained a loyal following from the people of Toronto and Canada. After this spike in traffic expect a major boycott from Canadian ip addresses.

  • RaptorfaninCleveland

    how in the world is toronto a small market team? Toronto is an alpha world city and not even los angeles is that (they are beta). Not also that, but toronto is the 5th most populous city in north america (not 7th as someone posted).

    what in your mind makes them small market? Your telling me that Utah, Portland, San Antonio, Memphis or even OKC are bigger markets than Toronto? What a garbage article…

  • Rapman

    You know you “Americans” can sometimes step out of your stereotype stupidity and ignorance. I swear America is the stupidest country in the world. Dude if you want to be successful please research a bit. The least you can do is to go on google and type “NBA market in Toronto”.

    If your a fuking journalist please talk based on facts rather than what is coming out of your ass…

  • http://www.kingsfans.com Willis

    Hey, don’t package Sacramento in with those small-markets. We may be a one-horse town, but we do have the 16th largest media market in the US. Just to put that in perspective, Memphis is 48th. Players like to play here too. We aren’t a major market, but by my count there are really only three or four in the NBA. LA, New York, Boston, and possibly Philly or Chicago.

    After that, you have your middle media markets which include: Toronto, Miami, Orlando, Dallas, Sacramento, Houston, New Jersey, Minneapolis, Denver, Atlanta, Washinton DC, Oakland/San Fran, Detroit, New Orleans

    And then you have your small markets: OK City, San Antonio, Utah, Milwaukee, Indiana, Portland, Charlotte, Memphis, Cleveland.

  • bobbo

    Hey Austin.

    You might want to make a article next on how Manchester United, and Real Madrid arn’t big market teams because they don’t get as much run on American tv as the New York Red Bulls, and other prominant MLS teams.

  • DrAKe

    The T-Dot si a smal market???? What drugs u b takin…we have all major sport league teams….soon we goona have the Toronto Bills…..

  • zigmund

    I like how the “journalist”(and I use that term loosly) writes an opinion article on market size. lmao. Guess what your opinion means squat. There’s only facts, and you are dead wrong.

    And when presented with facts he writes them off as “blah, blah, blah”. My God that’s stupid.

    So let me get this straight. Ray Allen’s more popular where you are from therefor he plays in a bigger market? The same Ray Allen that played in Miluakee for 7 years, and a team that moved cities for another 4? Are you trying to tell me Miluakee is a bigger market then Toronto?

    Seriously think about what you’re writting, and take a step out of your American bubble.

  • Jim

    Jefferson, you wrote

    “Jefferson Po says:

    LMAO 106 comments so far, when your usual “articles” (I use that term very loosely) get what? 5-10 comments?

    Small market? You’ve been made a fool!”

    Actually, he did exactly what he wanted to do, he made a complete horseshit article to grab attention, in the end, mission accomplished, he got more attention since his dumbass got spat out into this world, and, a crock of horseshit was delivered in a box with a bow, and a card written “Journalism” and we actually paid attention to it, guess we’re the fools. To the hack “writer” (and I use that term very, VERY loosely) this won’t get you into the print media, hack.

  • CDouble

    NY = Lil Wayne. New Yorkers claim NY is the best, like Lil Wayne claims he is the best rapper alive; many disagree with both. Toronto is not a small market. Toronto is just not an American market. If Toronto was truly a ‘Small Market’ I don’t think that the NATIONAL basketball association would have put a team in Canada. The articles on here are getting worse and worse. No reporting, just biased opinions and the occasional trade rumor. I’m out like Dime’s credibility.

  • Josh

    Wowwwwww this was such a joke of an article, absolutely pathetic.

  • anon

    162nd!111!!!!111!!!!111!!!!!111!!!1!!!!1

  • Kreza23

    Gerald – “You’re one of those guys who think Vin Diesel is a great actor, and four dogs sitting a round a table playing poker is great art, I get it, but do you really have to subject the rest of the world to your lack of culture?”

    I went through the trouble of reading each and every comment, and that was the funniest of them all. Hilarious!

    Not a whole lot to add, because everybody has already killed all credibility that this article ever had, there is one thing, because I read this in a comment here and in a lot of other places too.

    The argument of “When has Toronto ever signed a big time free agent?” to illustrate that Toronto is small-market is absolutely ridiculous for a number of reasons. #1, you can look back at the past couple of years, big time free agents hardly ever change teams. Most major player movement comes via trade. Free agents? Last year, it was Brand and Baron Davis. The year before? I suppose it was Rashard Lewis. Before that? Ben Wallace. Seriously, that’s about it. You could argue that Hedo Turkoglu is on the same level, and if not, maybe a notch below. In fact, the only times I can remember Toronto ever really failing to sign a free agent they wanted was John Salmons, when he did the same thing to us that Hedo did to Portland, and Tracy McGrady, when he decided to leave to get out of Vince Carter’s shadow. And you’re also dicounting the fact that Toronto was able to RE-SIGN it’s biggest free agent ever, in Vince Carter.

    #2 – NBA teams have to work with a salary cap, so it’s not like the Raptors have the money to spend and people are rejecting it. When they have had money, they’ve been able to sign pretty much whomever they want.

    If you’re gonna ask “When has Toronto been able to sign a big-time free agent?”, consider the last time that pretty much ANY team in the NBA has been able to sign a big time free agent.

  • UT

    CDouble has a good point. If all you are doing is trying to generate website hits fine … but you knew the anger would follow. What’s the point of that? Generating hate? Very productive. The actual reporting and fact checking in this article are nonexistent. Writing a piece like this is just begging for the response it received. I’m sorry, but it’s true.

    I realize that you tried to frame the piece in the framework of North American sports, but North American sports are global anyway you slice it. And as so many have pointed out previously, even if you you just take the Toronto and Canadian market it’s really hard to argue that that is small. It’s just not American.

    Anyway, Dime is a great mag and no doubt we’ll keep reading, but the weak opinion pieces need to be curbed in the off season.

    PS to all the commentators … chill on the US hate. Love the US openly like you know you do. NYC is the best city on earth. TO is up there too.

    Peace.

  • Ben

    Dimemag,

    I’d like to congratulate you. By hiring this idiot of columnist you have done two things. First you’ve now down-graded any intergrity you have had and are now stuck somewhere between Peter “Invent stories” Vescay and the National Enquirer. Secondly you’ve ensured that I will never re-subscribe your magazine – I’m presuming most of the Raptor Truthers will be cutting you off also. Great Job gang in ostracizing the 3rd largest media market in NA – my hat goes off to your lack of business savvy and your prodigious amounts of incompetence.

  • Danraps

    Can someone, or even AB explain what the purpose of this article was, or exactly the reason for writing it? I could understand the points if A) The team had gotten worse B) No free agents wanted to come here and basically rejected any notion of playing here. This article really is up for no reason at all and there is no point for any of us to attack it since this isn’t the first time this garbage has been written it certainly won’t be the last…ever! This shit is said with the perception it is like some Siberia to play here. Let people be entitled to opinions, even if they are ill informed. The reason the good teams are on ESPN and such is because they are the GOOD teams and Americans want to watch them and there is nothing wrong with that since that is what drives the money there and it should. If Toronto was Memphis then it should never be on big networks like that, who would watch that crap, but really, enough with this “Toronto is small market, blah blah blah” shit. It isn’t true, and people who make money decisions know it.

  • star_bury

    Bosh shouldn’t leave Toronto in 2010. He LOOKS like a dinosaur. It’s a perfect fit.

  • Curt

    Yea, I’m a raptors fan, but even if i wasnt i would say this article is a joke.
    did toronto just break up with you or something?

  • Freeze

    And Toronto has a huge media following for every sport, the Raptors even have their own Network.
    So while it may not be big in America, it’s huge up here.
    But since you are too ignorant to come up here and see for yourself you’d have no idea.

    So keep writing these great articles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    idiot.

  • UT

    I wrote a few comments that were critical yet still gave DIME some love … they weren’t posted. Are you guys trying to show a particular cross section of the Raptor fan base?

  • Have you ever been outside of your home county?

    What top superstars have refused to come to Toronto? Antonio Davis said he didn’t want his kids learning the Canadian national anthem in 2003…and it’s Antonio Davis.

    First of all, top superstars are rarely available as free agents. Look at who gotten big big contracts when they’ve changed teams in the past few years: Peja Stojakovic, Rashard Lewis, Carlos Boozer, Baron Davis, Elton Brand…Toronto didn’t pursue any of them because they all got overpaid and were poor value. That doesn’t mean players won’t come if Toronto wants them.

    You’re pretty ignorant overall, so you may want to read below to see why Toronto isn’t small market. And as a journalist, if people have the wrong perception, its your responsibility to correct it with facts, not add fuel to the uninformed fire.

    Toronto is one of the largest cities in the North America (population of 5,555,912 in 2006), 3rd biggest media and film market in North America after NY & LA, one of the top financial centres in the world (7th largest stock market in the world), Toronto is the only Canadian city with representation in seven major league sports, with teams in the National Hockey League, Major League Baseball, National Basketball Association, Canadian Football League, Major League Soccer, National Lacrosse League, and Major League Lacrosse.

    What reason, other than it’s in Canada would people have for thinking Toronto is small market?

  • control

    This article is like Brittney Spears. A huge train wreak that no one can avoid watching. Almost 200 comments about something that is worthless trash.

  • Timdunkit

    This article is pathetic and just shows the ignorance that most people have towards Toronto. You state all the facts about Toronto being one of the top cities in this and that but then choose to ignore what you say. Toronto is a fairly young NBA franchise that is for sure but it is not a small franchise. A small franchise are teams like Memphis/Indiana who have to make cost saving moves and have financial troubles. The author sites the VC era but fails to acknowlege that MLSE’s revenues continue to slowly climb during the rebuilding stage (and soared once BC came along). Last year the Raptors won 33 wins and as a Raptors fan it was quite dissapointed season. Yet, though we only winning 33 games, the Raptors were 1 of only 6 NBA teams to make a profit despite having a payroll of 70 mill even though we didn’t get ESPN coverage or TNT or whatever.

    Its time America sports media, specifically the guys that cover the NBA, show more respect to Toronto Raptors as a franchise and stop saying things out of there arse!

  • I come in peace

    To Star-Bury.

    Your post reminds me of another post earier.

    When yao Ming made a 3 point attempt, half the China jumped up. When Bosh made a 3 point attempt, half the Canada jumped up, when Marbury made a 3 point attempt, 5000 New Yorker lite up their joints. That pretty much sums it up.

    Bosh may not stay in Toronto, that is just the nature of the business. But as history serves it. Toronto didn’t really lost any FA, VC was traded after he shows no respect to the team efforts. And after he went to Nets, seems he carries similar attitude with him and tanked Net along with Kidd, now he is in Orlando, we will have to see if the virus is still with him. Other then VC who has not officially become a FA, who else that is an All star or star that Toronto was not able to retain. As for ppl not willing to play for Canadian team, the only one I ever heard was Steve Francis, who no longer plays for anyone, and he didn’t do much for Houston anyway.
    I may be wrong, as I am guilty like a lot of the hater and bashing writers that did not do research before writing something negative.

  • hahaha

    haha..typically idiot American..how’s your f-ing economy in the “greatest country in the world..”…yah…I thought so!!! keep up the great work…

  • capnkimo

    HOLLY MOLLY, this is a LOT of posts

  • DG

    If the Raptors are such a small market why even focus the article on them anyways since there sooo irrelevent. Please the franchise is one of the most profitable in the NBA. We don’t have to cater to US to be consider a big market. You do realize that everything doesn’t revovle around the US. Are team has a gobal market because of the different nationalities on our team. Just because we aren’t on ESPN doesn’t mean that we’re a small market. You should go and reference that to the other irrelevent teams in the NBA.

  • TibMax

    Is Austin Burton a blogger or an actual writer for Dime? This is weak weak stuff. The argument is a retread and only interesting to anyone who doesn’t realize that winning changes everything. This article adds less than zero value.

    After reading a few other “pieces” by Burton, I’m surprised Austin Burton is able to post his blog on Dime.

  • bdk23

    this was the biggest piece of bullshit i think ive ever read on this website and shame on dime to post it. You guys have been forever hating on the raps.
    MEN LIE, WOMEN LIE, NUMBERS DONT!
    get your dam facts straight, raps have been in the top 10 profitable nba teams since its inception in 1996. Toron

  • bdk23

    toronto isnt on the national networks and broadcasted to the western hemisphere every day because its a fuckin conspiracy to keep the raps as low profiled as possible.
    DO YOU REALLY THINK DAVID STERN WOULD ALLOW RAPTORS TO WIN A CHIP????? WE CANT EVEN GET A FUCKIN ALL-STAR WEEKEND! YOU AMERICANS ARE SO STUPID. THE MARKET IN TORONTO IS 1000000000000X BETTER THEN 95% OF THE OTHER TEAMS IN THE LEAGUE. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE FUCKIN CANADIAN KUSSHHHH

  • Big Mike

    Typical stupid ignorant American written article…..

  • Zain

    You never take into consideration the International market.. you’ll find tons of Raptors jerseys in Italy, Turkey, Spain, even Croatia. C’mon man smarten up.

  • control

    I am guessing the approval rating for this post by AB sits around…5-7%. Nearly 165 posts of pure hate, you filled your year quota son.

  • aaron

    What a joke of an article… You call yourself a journalist? You should blog instead, because half the things you are saying have no statistical basis.

    Again. What a joke.

  • Monkey Nutz

    Second @Adrian Miami hasn’t recovered from when they lowered some prices, and they can’t sell.

  • zigmund

    Oh yeah. As for the blue Jays.

    Please take a look at who holds some of the highest attendance records in the history of the league. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_attendance_records

    Yeah the fans went away when the strike happened, and we staretd to suck. But the market’s clearly there for them. Give them a team and the fans will come back and get exctied.

  • zigmund

    Oh, and.

    “nerditry says:

    @AB : You knew you were poking a bee’s nest and this should be fun. No one fan takes their sorry team more seriously than the Raptors fan.

    FYI Raptors fans, you got BARGNANI at #1 instead of being smart and trading the pick. You lose Bosh next summer, then what?

    How come no big free agents come to Toronto? Hedo doesn’t count cause he was chasing the money. I’m talking top-tier names.”

    How about because we’ve pretty much never been under the fuggin cap. We’ve had the MLE to offer for the vast majpority of years. How many teams that arn’t contending get anything special with the MLE? Knicks got Chris friggin Duhon last year with it.

    And How exactly does Hedo not count? After taxes he’s making like 200k more/year then the offers from other teams. Whoop-dee-doo.

  • Dave

    This article would sound a lot less idiotic if the author just referred to Toronto as what it is. In basketball and baseball Toronto is a mid-market team. It is not a small market like Charlotte or Sacramento and it is not as big a market as LA or New York. Pretty simple.

  • Chris

    You’re right and yet you’re oh so wrong. Let me take it point by point.

    Toronto is indeed a fringe NBA market despite it’s size, yet the NBA’s reached the point where it doesn’t matter (that much). CP3 isn’t bigger than CB4 because New Orleans is a “better market” than Toronto, he’s bigger because he has a more exciting game. Likewise Vince wasn’t bigger than Ray Ray in 2001 because Toronto was a better city than Milwaukee, but because Vince had a better game.

    You think LeBron is huge because of all the regional support from Cleveland fans or because America loves rooting for Cleveland? LeBron as big as Kobe, yet LeBron plays in Cleveland and Kobe plays in L.A. When Toronto gets an exciting All Star, you’ll see people on both sides of the border rocking his Jersey.

    As to you point on Calderon and Bargnani, how often do you see people (outside of the team’s city) wearing jerseys of two non-All Stars. That would be like complaining that you never see anyone rocking a Stuckey or a Milsap jersey. Of course you don’t. I’d go as far as to bet that Calderon and Bargnani have sold more jerseys than Stuckey and Milsap.

  • Diego

    Boy, some touchy Canadians. AB was way off on his focus, but Toronto is a team in which most folks in the US just have no interest.

    No way Bosh stays with Toronto, as the young US stars always have bailed from the Canadian teams. Only way Toronto wins a chip is potentially with a variety of the best European talent–who just by coming overseas to pursue their careers have shown openmindedness towards new culture–, which is exactly what the Raptors basically are trying to do. But it still isn’t going to happen.

    But lighten up Canadian posters. (I haven’t seen such a collective chip on the shoulder since I visited New Zealand, and had to deal with their bitterness/envy towards the Australians.)

  • http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.

    I just posted on my blog about this article…

    http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/

    In essence, an American writer with a narrow view of the world. How surprising!

  • http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.

    Diego: “No way Bosh stays with Toronto, as the young US stars always have bailed from the Canadian teams”

    Sorry? Mcgrady bailed on the team, I’ll give you that. But there are various reasons for that, only one of which was that the team was in Canada. But Vince actually re-signed with the team when most in the US didn’t think he would. I can’t help but notice that nobody below the border ever brings that up. It wasn’t the fact that the team was in Canada that caused him to later force a trade. It was inept decisions by management that did.

    Many Americans seemed to be perplexed about why ANYONE would want to live outside the US, let alone an American. I actually know quite a number of Americans who have voluntarily moved up to Canada and later got their citizenship. Even a few black ones, believe it or not. The fact that some American NBA players don’t want to play in Canada says more about them than Toronto.

  • Sad

    Diego-
    “No way Bosh stays with Toronto, as the young US stars always have bailed from the Canadian teams. Only way Toronto wins a chip is potentially with a variety of the best European talent-who just by coming overseas to pursue their careers have shown openmindedness towards new culture-, which is exactly what the Raptors basically are trying to do. But it still isn’t going to happen.”

    What young US stars? Mcgrady okay but he made it known he wasn’t looking forward to playing with Vince (remember Mcgrady wanted to play the 2 and guard 2 players). Name another? Now let’s look at US stars who resigned in Toronto. Vince Carter. Antonio Davis. and Chris Bosh did so as well and has not shown the slightest hint that he wants to leave.

  • Jefferson Po

    Austin Burton, I hope you are your double chin have learned something here:

    Dont write articles while ‘high’ on twinkies and hotdogs. Seriously now, you are quite overweight.

  • Piper

    What disappoints me even further about this article is that after all these responses, Austin has been silenced. Not only was this the weakest analysis I’ve seen in quite some time, he’s had all the time needed to come up with some rebuttal. Yet he has moved on knowing well that his claims were weak and irrelevant.

  • Gene

    As much as I disagree with this article, I do not agree with people posting blatant anti-America comments. One of the things that upset people with articles like these is the ignorant stereotypes implied in them.

    We should not become what we hate; if we hate being stereotyped, then we shouldn’t stereotype other people. Not all Americans are as ignorant as this man. Don’t forget, Chris Bosh is American and he says that he loves Toronto and its fans.

  • VCR Grizzly

    You will have to forgive the angry Torontonians, they just went through 36 days without garbage collection and are still cranky.

    Before I also dump on Austin I have to say while I am Canadian:
    I have a place in the USA and spent lots of time down there,
    I think Americans are way nicer than Canadians,
    I hate the Toronto Raptors,
    I think Toronto as a city is lame and cold and would not play there if I was in the NBA.

    That being said, without knowledge of how the Canadian media works you can’t say what the market is like. In Canada (anywhere) you get 50-60 Raptors games a year with basic cable. Even if you get no cable you still get the CBC which has about 15-20 games a year. On top of that with slightly more than basic cable you get a Raptors channel. Every newspaper in Canada covers it. Even if you don’t like basketball you can’t avoid the Raptors in Canada.

    It may be a small market in the US but it has a monopoly over a large market outstide of it. If Chris Bosh was actually not already overrated and ever won a couple of playoff rounds he might get more recognition.

    Out like the Vancouver Grizzlies (Still Bitter)

  • pangit

    ohh well…. small market??? who’s struggling on the gates, let me see.. NO? PAcers? NJ? and so on…. these are US cities.. and yet they suck big time.. most US cities suck.. maybe all of them. US teams are losing big time. the arrogance and stupidity shows…

  • pangit

    and by the the way Toronto sends the garbage to michigan to help its economy.. maybe memphis next time… griz needs some revenue…VCR Grizzly…. hehehe

  • are you serious?

    well you VCR Grizzly…are an idiot. im guessing you were bullied as a child and blame canada for it, mostly toronto. haha. pathetic. well i too have a home in the states, in california, and people there are NOT as nice canadians. trust me, its not uncommon to hear gun shots in LA. depens on where you go but still and the drivers back in LA are crazy, at least here in toronto they wait and aloow pedestrians to walk across the street.

    but ill agree with one thing, i too feel bitter about vancouver grizzlies departing for memphis. thats just bull. and lastly toronto isnt lame, your just too old to do things with the young ones. tdot is the place to party and watch awesome concerts trust me. parties. the raves are sick.

    now for this article. everyone said everything thats needed to be said and coming from an american idiot, this sounds so dumb cause he’s talking out of his a**. this proves the ignorance of many americans who have never been outside of their country cause they think its the best. pathetic. go to cuba i dare you, or some ghetto part of europe and just whisper the word american into their ears, i dare you. you wont see the light of day. this shows how much america is hated. now im not sayin i hate america, its just that people like you are ignorant and think the untied States is the world. grow up and explore our planet, cause ill tell ya, theres more to earth than just the US.

  • UT

    @VCR Grizzly … a Vancouverite saying that Toronto is lame? Good points though.

  • me

    Half of this post is just as retarded as Austin’s article. U guys are stereotyping us Americans to be as ignorant as Austin. Not all Americans think we are far superior in every other way compare 2 others.

    IGNORANT RAPTOR FANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • K Dizzle

    comin from a guy who puts his name as “me”

  • doc

    I didnt know Toronto had so many pussies there.Yall act like AB God or something.So what he thinks yall small market.Why are yall so mad?Basically all he trying to say is yall suck as a franchise and we all know theres no denying that.

  • pangit

    TO maybe this or maybe that.. but we ain’t asking be asking for bailout from NBA. raptors may suck but we have all the money in the world. “me” i read between the line and it says you “think” you are superior. you think but you did not know. by the way TO garbage problem is solved, maybe your city needs some revenue… you can have there trash it may help boost your economy..:). “doc” our franchise suck but i know your team need some cash so why dont you hook up with “me” and do some garbage business..import that is.

  • Spoken

    Going forward any facts not backed up with credible stats are just baseless idiotic stereotypes and generalizations (ie Amerians are nicer??? Canadians are nicer???). You bring yourself down to Austin’s level by doing this. There is enough real data to show that Austin is an idiot, we don’t need Canadians or anyone else lowering the level of this discussion with mindless opinion.

  • zululegend

    “You should never argue with a fool because people will not be able tell the difference between you and him.”

    Poorly written article: F-

  • utahJZZ

    i have dual citizenship, born and raised in New York, New York, live in Toronto.

    Toronto is by far the most beautiful city in the world alotta people, alotta clubs, the only bad abpit the raptors are there kinda ugly ass jerseys

    And i still dont know the point of you writing this article

  • http://youtube.com/rahzel2k4 rahzel2k4

    make the playoffs with > 47 wins and that will begin to change. You can book that. Try again bud

  • doc

    @pangit-Whatever u talking about I dont give a fuck.I aint no dam American Warrior who get mad if u say something about the country i live in.Fuck America!And fuck bum ass Toronto!Yall team got money.I bet they do because anybody who deserve a high contrat dont wanna play for yall thats why yall superstar signing is Hedo Fucking Turkey head or whatever his name is.It dont really matter because as far as we concerned unless he pick up a hockey stick real soon he’s going where athletes go to be forgotten.

  • BCLegomasterNum1

    Terrible post. Bosh might not get the recognition south of the border, but his international teammates and the international atmosphere bring about international attention like no other NBA team. In this global environment if you still think about marketing confined to the USA you are just a bum who needs to read a book.

  • BigRedFred

    Com on now…why do we even bother reading these Ignorant American writers…that is all they do when they have nothing to do, is write something stupid about their North American friend. One of the most stupid post I read on hear Dime, come on meng…..
    VC had it all here but lost it when he became a pussy…
    No ignorant American basketball player wants to play in Canada cause they think that it will be best to play and get more recognized in the U.S.

    That we blame on you ….yes you the Media…….being an international superstar I think isn’t that bad at all….just saying

  • pangit

    @doc…. wahahhahahah. you are indeed american. crybaby.. huhuhuhuhu… you need work? raptors needs a bum. and your a very good candidate. btw, are u a poser or what… and one more, who do you think invented basketball? guess who…hehhehehehe.. loser

  • doc

    @pangit-What the hell is a poser?Im from the hood pimp.I dont need work Im good where Im at.Who cares who invented it.We know who mastered it.These black dudes from here dont act like u dont know.If u wanna see a real b-ball player come across the border to any hood near you.And u will see any random 9th grader that will 360 on your head without breaking a sweat.U sound like one of them little funny head canadians from south park.If u mad at dime writers go read the canadian b-ball mag for the streets.I heard that Terrance and Phillip league is the shit up there.Chris Bosh gotta make damn Youtube videos just to go to the fucking all star game so the world dont care about Toronto that much.

  • doc

    Punk ass Bitch

  • pangit

    @doc…hahhahahahaha youre so funny.. youre right though america is a hood. lol

  • doc

    what happened u quit.I can keep going.

  • Raps_fan

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA what a joke….This is a PRIME example of complete ignorace.

  • Raps_fan

    ignorance**

  • spirow

    Its NBAs fault for toronto being not on the map. . . They should show more games on ESPN and have bosh on the front cover. . . like the NHL promotes crappy american cities. . . Toronto is the place to be multi cultural while a lot of cities in the USA don’t live up to the expectations of being nice cities or desirable around the world. . . You know if this keeps happening basketball fans in Canada will loose faith in the NBA like I am. . . If bosh leafs i’ll blame stern for not putting toronto on the map cuz our fan base is amazing

  • spirow

    As for DOC your an idiot. . . stop actin all hard behind ur nerdy computer screen. . . We’re just amazed at the ignorance of some of you american ppl who don’t even know if canada is of the south or north of you. . . but then again you buy all the ish your writers write on face value. . . puppets!

  • HeyNow

    Austin is either lazy or pressed for time and rushed this article. Some points to note:
    -Toronto is the 8th largest media market in North America
    -Raptors are the only team in Canada and have national coverage. 30 million population for 1 team????
    -Raps did get coverage on NBC when VC was in his prime.
    -Raps are a Stern’s is a peice of the puzzle to take the NBA global. I would be suprised if Stern was not following the raptors on a regular basis.

    Raps may not matter in the US to most of you but I am sure it matters to Stern.

  • doc

    Stop bitching See yall all tight in the ass and cant take a joke.What yall got some type of complex or something yall keep spitting out all these stats.What yall want Toronto to make the All Star team.Dont take it personal.I’ll come on here and talk some shit about a USA city too.We love yall on PTI Tony give u pricks a shoutout every night what else yall want.

  • pangit

    @doc.. me quit. im not the loser here.. its you. by the way, your id does not suit you.. or maybe you need a health care plan.. wahahaha.. raptors got some flavor you may not like but we do.

  • scott

    Congratulations Burton, Your officially an asshole.

  • hahaha

    @doc…since when is “yall” a word!! you must have a modified or grade 3 dictionary…

  • Michel G

    Honestly AB, I don’t care if we’re relevant in the States. Never have, never will. All raptor games are televised in crystal clear HD, and we have the best damn beer in the world (Sleeman’s Cream Ale is my favourite). And there’s a game scheduled for most Friday nights!

  • Ron

    Your an ass Austin!

    TORONTO IS THE POSTER IMAGE OF BIG MARKET TEAM!!!!!!

  • PistonsMissBillups

    if you take chris bosh out of toronto the franchise falls apart, they are small market until they resign bosh and build around calderon and him (turk was a solid start), but defense comes first, they are young and exciting but with the top teams getting better, its good to see toronto going after these players (such as turk) rather than sit out and wait in a bad economy

    good luck to toronto, if they resign bosh they could be at the top of the Atlantic once Bosh hits is prime as KG, Pierce and Ray are retiring

  • PistonsMissBillups

    side note, having family in toronto, i agree, Sleeman’s Cream Ale is a great drink, always have a few when visiting

  • Selects87

    @pistonsmissbillups

    You sir are just as bad as Burton. The word market has nothing to do with signing big name free agents. We will still be a big market team without Bosh in our line-up.

    @doc
    FUCKING TOOL! We may be tight in the ass but there is a reason for that… We dont take dick there like yourself.

  • Scott

    AB most of the stuff you write seems intelligent … but you are looking like a typical ethnocentric American Idiot in this piece. The sun doesn’t rise and set on West Broadway … Take your ignorant ass across the
    Atlantic and I guarantee you see plenty of folks rocking Bargnani and Calderon jerseys.

  • nizzle

    WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK article!

    Who cares if ESPN and TNT arent picking up games – that’s their problem, and their loss. The Raptors 8+million fans in toronto and 35 million across Canada. Internationally, The Raptors lead the way as a team.

    please boy, you are way to american …are you a troll?

  • Mark

    Toronto is far from a small market.

    His premise behind why we’re a small market is because the Toronto Raptors didn’t make it to ESPN or TNT. Did the writer of this article forget that Toronto is in CANADA and ESPN and TNT are AMERICAN SPORTS CHANNELS!

    If you had done your research, you would have also realized the Raptors are the only team in the NBA to have there own dedicated sports channel (Raptors TV).

    And during the Raptors playoff runs, ESPN Asia (China/Japan) and Orbit Sports (Middle East) and Sky Sports in Europe all picked up the Raptors game, the only NBA team.

    The Toronto Raptors are probably one of the fastest growing and money making teams in the NBA it’s gone from 20th to like 13th in 3 like years according to FORBES, if I’m not mistaken.

    I don’t see the KNICKS or LAKERS with there own TV channel.

    I don’t see people in Italy or Turkey or China buying Knicks or Lakers jerseys, I’ve seen Raptors jerseys getting sold more often.

    And I see people flocking to Toronto more often these days, it’s a great city. Even with the horrible teams they’ve had in the past, we still support our teams. The Blue Jays have been horrible for the past 10+ years, yet they’ve always averaged 20,000 people to every game, much higher than some American cities.

    So, take it easy on the Bud Light and write something sensible next time. You Americans have a problem with seeing other cities or countries outside of your own craphole doing much better.

    Toronto Rocks!

  • Mark

    “”"You might want to make a article next on how Manchester United, and Real Madrid arn’t big market teams because they don’t get as much run on American tv as the New York Red Bulls, and other prominant MLS teams.”"”

    Beautifully put…

  • Mark

    “Small Market” Toronto

    Value According To Forbes Magazine

    Toronto Raptors (fastest growing in the NBA)
    - 11th in NBA (2008)
    - 17th in NBA (2007)
    - 20th in NBA (2006)

    Toronto Maple Leafs
    - 1st in NHL (2008)

    Toronto FC (Only 3 seasons in the MLS)
    - 2nd in MLS (2008)

    Toronto Blue Jays (not owned by the MLSE)
    - 23rd in MLB (2008)

    Toronto

    - About 25% of films produced in Hollywood are actually filmed in Toronto, making it North America’s 3rd largest TV and movie production venue, after Los Angeles and Hollywood.

    - Toronto is the 5th largest city in North America, after Mexico City, New York, Chicago and Los Angeles.

    - Toronto Stock Exchange is the 7th largest stock exchange in the world.

    - Toronto is said to be the “world most ethnically diverse city”. 51% of it’s population are foreign born and more than 100 languages are spoken. (UN)

    - Toronto is the largest and most important financial centre in all of Canada and the fourth largest in North America. Only New York City, Chicago and Los Angeles are larger.

    - Toronto is the third largest centre for English language theatre in the world, behind New York City and London.

    Small market my foot…go watch that NFL bore you call football, while we Canadians sit and watch some REAL football for a change (CFL).

  • Mark

    And now he’s run away…he didn’t even bother responding. I’ve left him a little treat in his newest article…lets hope he can pick his yankee ass up and come respond to all of these comments.

    As far as DIME goes, you’ve lost thousands if not more of Canadian readers.

    Great job…

  • umar

    actually I think this article has more to do with the fact he’s a seattle supershit fan and that his team got moved away before the Raptors folded.

    The jealousy is so obvious, think about it. Even when the Raptors began in 95′ everyone was questioning if it would be popular, and now that it is and Stern himself is giving the club thumbs up, trailer park trash like Austin Burton can’t accept it.

    Don’t blame Raptor fans or Toronto for loving and supporting there team and spending money on the Raptors, blame your shitty city Seattle for being such a shythole and shyt fans with no money.

    Just because they moved away doesn’t mean you should be hating on the Raptors, they’ve got the best fans in the NBA hands down. Watching them against the Magic last year at home was like watching a college basketball game. So loud and full of emotion, no other arena in the NBA can come close.

    So Austin Burton, go fuck yourself, you fat gelatinous motherfucker. Learn to do your research and visit the city you’re going to rant on before you write a shyt article like this ya stupid little twat.

    Now piss off back to writing about your shyt sonics ya silly yankee cunt…