LeBron could be the best small forward ever. Is that good enough?
LeBron James, Dime #47
My sister knew about LeBron James before I did. Back in 2002, when ‘Bron went mainstream and appeared on the cover of Sports Illustrated (“The Chosen One”), I was in school out here at Seattle U, while my sister was in school in Ohio, where LeBron was already a local deity.
Leading up to LBJ’s first national TV game, we were talking about the hype surrounding the kid. “What if he’s just average?” I asked her. “Like he’s not the next Jordan, but he’s not a complete bust?” I think the example I used was Derrick McKey.
Six years into LeBron’s pro career, we’re well beyond that point. The expectations have changed so much that ‘Bron is being thrust into “best of all-time” discussions more than anything. In ’05, he was again on the SI cover; this time the headline was simply, “Best Ever?”
LeBron could be the best player ever, period — someday. Before that, he could be the greatest small forward the game has seen. (Some say he’s already there.) But what if he is “only” one of the greatest players of all-time and not the greatest? What if he’s only one of the greatest small forwards to play?
“When I first got to the NBA, I was happy to be in the NBA and excited to put on an NBA uniform and everything,” LeBron told me in his Dime #47 cover feature. “Not saying I still don’t, but now … I want to become the best player of all-time. I want to be the best player on the court every time I go out on the court. I see my potential, and I’m nowhere near as high as I can be.”
Here’s a question: If LeBron has a career that’s almost exactly similar to, say, Dominique Wilkins, will that be considered a failure? A disappointment? Will he not have lived up to expectations?
With one MVP and one NBA Finals appearance, LBJ has already surpassed ‘Nique in a couple of categories. But if he never wins a title — or never makes it back to the Finals, or is never really competitive for the ‘chip, kind of like when the Cavs got swept in ’07 — what is his legacy?
Dominique was an All-Star staple, an All-NBA staple, and a playoff staple. He is the NBA’s 10th all-time leading scorer, and his 24.8 career average ranks 12th all-time. He wasn’t the triple-double threat LeBron is (at his peak, ‘Nique was good for 6-7 boards and 2-3 assists a night), but he was unquestionably one of the best small forwards in history, and in the annals of all-time players, probably ranks somewhere between 25-40.
Is that good enough for LeBron? What kind of career does he need to have to say he realized — if not maximized — his potential?
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July 16th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
dk says:
Great piece of shit article, way to go. Glad the NBA champ Kobe Bryant is feelong the love from you Dime bags…
July 16th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
Dukesman2000 says:
Win more Championships than MJ.
July 16th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
uneeda says:
“Feelong”?
July 16th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
Khalvin says:
BEST EVER??
He has a looong way to go to be best ever…. He has numerous rings to win, awards to rack up and teams to lead.
“Best ever??” One turned ankle, one knee injury and the title changes real quick to “Best that never happened”
The media is fickle, lets be serious he is a talented baller that has a a ton of potential but that is where the story ends until he racks up a few chips.
KHII
July 16th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
Chris From LB CALI says:
i have said this already…
I dont want to hear you BARKLEY Riders say he is the best PF ever and not give BRON the respect he deserves.
He will win a ring with BOSH in NYC
SAVE THIS EMAIL AND check back with me in 2010
July 16th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
Drink the Haterade says:
Chris– Can I have some of what you’re smokin? NYK won’t win the chip anytime soon!
July 16th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
BiG ShoT BoB says:
If he has the kind of career Nique had that’s more than good enough. Nique’s a hall of famer and one of the 50 greatest players of all time enough said.
July 16th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
Drink the Haterade says:
Dime– I recently was at the airport in Huntsville looking for a mag to read on the plane. The only one I could find worth lookin at was SLAM. (they didn’t have Maxim) So I got it, MJ on the cover and it was a few months old at that, but they had an interesting article that I think you should do a story on. The Fifty (50)revised best players of all time. It had Kobe @ 12 and Shaq @ 4.
July 16th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
Lakers Nation says:
He needs to win a ring before he can be considered. How much is Lebron paying you to write this stuff? We know how careful he is shaping his image to the public now.
Adam Morrison has more rings than LeBron . . .
Lebron can’t win without Kobe – i.e. Olympics
If Kobe was considered a SF, he’d easily outrank Lebron as the best SF ever!
getting annoyed yet?
July 16th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
12t says:
In order for Lebron to become the greatest player of all time he needs a few things which are out of his control.
He needs a sidekick or two.
He needs a real coach.
He needs role players (vets & prospects) alike who buy into the system
Unfortunately he only has that in partial earnest. Mo Williams was a write in All-Star for a reason, Mike Brown wouldn’t be the coach of the year at an HBCU confrence, and no one off that bench got 6th man mentions for a reason.
Lebron can only go out and put his team in a position to win every night. As much as I’d love to see him average a triple-double for a few years. The reality is he’ll only get that designation if he becomes the leader of the greatest team in the era to come.
July 16th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
Yoooo says:
Hold up son I went to an HBCU and for the record some of the best coaches EVER coached at HBCU’s. Respect the Blackness faggot.
AGGIE PRIDE!!!
July 16th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
MoxWestCoastRep says:
I liken this to his rookie year- Like you said he was on TV in HS, came in with more hype than we had ever seen, and all the pressure in the world.
What happened?
He surpassed every expectation put on him! He was better than we thought in every aspect.
If the rings dont come for whatever reason (I think he’ll win a few) it will be a disappointment, but if he keeps up and doesnt get injured along the way, regardless he will be THE best ever. period.
July 16th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
sxm says:
Didnt Bird play SF?
July 16th, 2009 at 5:43 pm
Cha says:
no current player will surpass MJ. people forget the things jordan accomplished.. the scoring titles while shooting over 50%, 6 finals mvps etc etc. It’s just hard to imagine lebron or any player for that matter surpassing the things jordan has done. Kobe’s the closest thing, but even if he wins 7 rings, he’s still not a clear cut more accomplished player than jordan, because of his lack of finals mvps. In basketball, success is determined by the number of championships you lead your team to, and until another player dominates the league for an entire decade the way jordan did, jordans spot at number one is safe. In terms of pure basketball skill, that’s a whole different debate.
July 16th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
king ralf says:
i hate whatever i see from lebron in the media etc.
but i have to admit his game is just beyond everything almost everyone did ever before (jordan, wilt, Big O).
There aren´t many ppl who are as dominant as he is.
July 16th, 2009 at 5:51 pm
Dagomar says:
To realize his potential he has to become the best player ever. He’s not that far away in terms of his skill; he needs a better team and a few championships. My guess is that he’ll get that in the next few years. If he never receives a championship he’ll probably be the remembered as the best player never to have done so, but those odds are slim.
July 16th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
KB24 says:
LeBron this LeBron that……Give us a Kobe Article for once.
July 16th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
CJ says:
just an fyi for all you cats, nique didn’t make the 50th anniversary all 50 squad. go figure.
but even if lbj wins a chip or 2, he’s still not a shoo-in as greatest sf. look who he’s up against.
elgin baylor, like nique, didn’t get a lot of love. dude had some crazy numbers. in his best season he averaged 38-19-5 and 27-14-4 over his career. that’s insane. you would also have to include doc in that discussion with career averages of 29-12-5 (incl ABA); and ofcourse bird (25-10-6 career avg). right now lbj is at 28-7-7, but who knows where thoses numbers go from here? they may go up later on, but if he has better players around him, his stats might take a hit, and not to mention when his numbers dip in the twilight of his career.
lbj’s a great player, but don’t forget to give the old school their propers.
July 16th, 2009 at 6:26 pm
danny says:
lebron has the skills to be the greatest ever??? LAUGH OUT LOUD. And i thought every time i turn on a cavs game lebron would either A)drive to the basket, draw the foul on minimum contact or B)drive to the basket. Definitely the most overrated player in the nba. No shot, just an okay passer, definitely not a good defender. Why is this kid the best again??
July 16th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
sunni says:
what the hell the ‘annal’ mean…i would not want to be in the ‘annals’ of all time players.
July 16th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
David_Brandon says:
“In basketball, success is determined by the number of championships you lead your team to, and until another player dominates the league for an entire decade the way jordan did, jordans spot at number one is safe. In terms of pure basketball skill, that’s a whole different debate.”
i’ma have to agree w/ cha on this part…
July 16th, 2009 at 7:09 pm
ShowKase says:
Develop a consistent J, develop ball handling skills (crab dribble?), work on his man to man defense, stop refering to himself in the third person, shake hands after a loss ……basically be better than Scottie Pippen and win 6 chips and that’s just to be the BEST SF…..and give back the tape…..
July 16th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
LakeShow84 says:
U said it Burton..
Doo reminds me so much of Dominique Wilkins.. So much flash and got the #’s to back it up but is he really the greatest?? the greatest could have a horrible game and turn around and wet the net for the game but i dont FEEL or see that from Lebron..
Being the best isnt just about the stats you drop its about the attitude/persona you have out there and the WORK you put in to be feared and respected as the greatest..
When Tmac was Tmac he said when he first came in the league everyone would say “force him to his left!” then he worked on his left so hard people began to say “force him to his right”..
6-7 years later and we still say let Lebron shoot J’s all day..
He seems to be concerned with other aspects of his celebrity.. not putting in the time to be the best.. he thinks he’ll GROW into it..
But IN MY OPINION the stats and flash are great but the fact it took him 6 years to splash a buzzer beater says it all for me..
July 16th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
LakeShow84 says:
LOL @ Showkase
Yeah give back the tape!
July 16th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
"Big Hook" Nunez says:
Larry Bird is the best SF ever, name one thing that Bron has done that Larry has not done better! LBJ needs to win 2 more MVPS in a row before he can even be compared to Bird. Heck Kobe whom most people think is the best active player is still behind Bird on the all time rankings.
July 16th, 2009 at 7:22 pm
Drink the Haterade says:
IN that SLAM I read, he was ranked #42 all time
July 16th, 2009 at 7:51 pm
Oscarisalakerfan says:
No it’s not enough he has to win multiple titles and continue with those kind of video game numbers in order to justify the hype around Bron Bron
July 16th, 2009 at 7:58 pm
Chris From LB CALI says:
@ Drink the Haterade and the rest of the world:
LISTEN CAREFULLY- we all know Kobe is better then Lebron at scoring. But you cant say that he is a better Rebounder or Passer.
and we can debate this all day.
ist like saying “If Bron had Gasol he would win” or “If Bron had Phil jackson”
If’s If’s!!!
Point is SHEED WALLACE is my NIGG and prepare for the Take OVA This SEASON!!
July 16th, 2009 at 8:20 pm
JustPuked says:
LeBron is the greatest player to get dunked on at his own summer camp.
July 16th, 2009 at 8:25 pm
foolio_iglesias says:
I think Lebron can and will get better,but I don’t see how he can PLAY much better;he’s already so good that when he’s on the ball,the entire defense has to focus on him,he’s stronger than most NBA players and also more athletic,what else could he possibly do HIMSELF?I feel he already does enough,now some other pieces have to come together….
July 16th, 2009 at 8:48 pm
KnicksFan84 says:
Dimemag… do ANY of you actually follow basketball or you PURPOSELY put a shit article out to get people to post how STUPID it is to even suggest LeFRAUD could be best SF ever…
WOW!
That’s like saying Vanilla Ice is a top 10 rapper.
LePHONY/LeFRAUD plays in an era which is soft and caters to crab-dribblin mofo’s with no jump shot to speak of.
You can take MR. “More holes in his game than a pair of crocs” and put him in every era and this dude would get dominated by other top SF of their time. PERIOD!
July 16th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
mrparker says:
You guys are insane. Lebron averaged 35, 9, and 7 for an entire playoffs. He can’t shoot for Mo Williams. What else do you want the kid to do? He had the best season by any player not named Jordan in most of our lifetimes. What does he have to do to get better? Pay whatever it would cost to get Mitch Kupchak as his GM.
July 16th, 2009 at 9:29 pm
ponky_alolor says:
Again, Dime is pulling this article out. Don’t like this at all. It’s like Nike selling that Zoom Soldier Finals edition without LBJ getting to the Finals.
Lebron has the POTENTIAL to be one of the greatest but until he wins the chip, there’s still nothing worth discussing now.
Stop hyping LBJ this way Dime, our cat deserves less hate from what he’s getting. Bottomline he’s one of the most unique basketball talents we’ll ever see, whether he’ll be up there at the top will be seen over time.
July 16th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
LakeShow84 says:
@ Chris From LBC
They play different positions so yes Lebron grabs more boards than Kobe cuz its his JOB to do so..
Also EVERY SINGLE possession Lebron touches the rock so yes he dishes more assists..
Bottom line is you cant compare the 2 stat wise.. i compare them by W’s and who got the biggest balls.. i’ve seen Lebron call a good ol fashion foul “dirty” and even take it into the postgame interview and whine some more.. i aint never heard Kobe whine about JACKSHIT and dude is so hated mofo’s will actually closeline him in a game and take the suspension.. The Mamba will eat up the King all day..
And who the fuck ever said Charles Barkeley is the best PF of all time??
TIM DUNCAN ALL DAY AND IM A LAKER FAN WRITING THIS..
July 16th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
Kevin says:
@LakeShow
That’s the dumbest shit I’ve ever read. So you’re saying Kobe DOESN’T have the ball on every possession? Really? Kobe gets less assists than LeBron because Kobe passes the ball less often. Bottom line. Great player, great scorer, not exactly John Stockton on the passing thing.
And you’re saying Kobe doesn’t complain? Do you just listen to games on the radio? He bitches about almost every call and no-call on the court.
July 16th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
Tim says:
@ Chris -Post #5..
How are the Knicks supposed to sign Lebron AND Bosh with a 53 million dollar cap…that ain’t happening now…so all these teams who want two studs…good luck getting them…
July 16th, 2009 at 10:54 pm
ponky_alolor says:
i agree with you lakeshow on some points, that Lebron’s system allows him to create and dish more, while Kobe and the triangle makes him pick his spots.
Stats are somewhat irrelevant between the two. But I also think that LBJ is the more willing passer than Kobe, although that in itself has gotten LBJ usually more flak than success.
Kobe’s got balls of steel and he doesn’t mind being the ballhog goat. Hahaha, he freaking ignored WIDE OPEN Ariza, Fisher, and Odom against Orlando during Game 2 or 3 in the finals (not sure though which exact game) and got blocked by Turk. Well that’s what you pay your stud player to do. Lebron when surrounded usually just kicks out to wide open Delonte / Mo which they brick. As a fan, it depends which game you like.
Ultimately this debate arrives at who’s got the chips and we all know Kobe’s on top of that argument at this time.
July 16th, 2009 at 11:35 pm
bdk23 says:
Yeah, but put Jordan in the league in this day in age of basketball and he couldnt do half the things he’s doing now. Point blank period. Im sick of this. The league has progressed to such a higher level of play that its insane. The best part about it is that we still aren’t done.
Imagine an nba league of 30 teams with Superstars at each position 1-5. We still have a ways to go, but we are getting there soon. Having 1 superstar won’t get you a chip (ex Lebron), Also having 2 superstars won’t get a chip presently either!!(ex Chauncey,Melo) We are in a stage where the level has risen so high as to where each team needs at least 3 superstars to win a chip. A team of mediocore guys isn’t going to win it anymore. The League is too good for that
Thanks
July 17th, 2009 at 1:00 am
tindore says:
like mentioned above Larry Legend owns the greatest SF to play, and absolutly the greatest player w/o superior athleticism, Larry was a tough S.O.B., he was a great defender and playmaker, and also clutch as can be… until Bron gets more than three rings he isnt the best THREE/SF ever, Larry is…
July 17th, 2009 at 1:31 am
Smitty313 says:
The White boy from French Lick > The King from Akron.
July 17th, 2009 at 1:38 am
LakeShow84 says:
@ Kevin
Go watch an actual basketball game in which the triangle is ran you dip.. ITS A TEAM SYSTEM.. mofo’s read SLAM a couple times and think they Red Auerbach all of a sudden..
And yeah im talking about whining about no calls.. did you even read what i wrote??
YO BOY IS SOFT AND THATS WHY HARD NOSE FOO’S LIKE BIRD AND NIQUE WILL ALWAYS BE BETTER THAN HIM UNTIL HE PROVES HE MAN ENOUGH TO WIN A CHIP..
Not get swept into oblivion..
too bad you wont read this cuz yo mama already tucked you in..
July 17th, 2009 at 1:38 am
sh!tfaced says:
career like dominique wilkins, most definitely. lebron got his ass kicked by paul pierce in a game 7 just like ‘nique got his by bird in a game 7 2 decades ago…
July 17th, 2009 at 6:05 am
S-SiN says:
1. Larry Legend
2. Scottie
3. The Doctor
get in line FREAK
July 17th, 2009 at 6:10 am
S-SiN says:
and yeah. give back the tape LeCrab
July 17th, 2009 at 6:13 am
S-SiN says:
that tape fiasco alone has me thinking i got P Double on my squad over his ass any day of the week.. best ever??
GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE
July 17th, 2009 at 8:41 am
Simon says:
@bdk23,
I want to know why you think Jordan wouldn’t be able to do as well in this current NBA. I think the fact that the best player in the league (Kobe) plays the way Jordan does shows that he would still be successful. He also averaged 20ppg as a 39/40 year old in his last season back in 02/03 which wasn’t that long ago.
Maybe you are right, but when you make bold statements you need to back it up with some evidence!
July 17th, 2009 at 8:56 am
MAus says:
Worthy, Pippen, Bird….that’s just off the top of my head. Not even the best small forward yet by any stretch.
July 17th, 2009 at 9:59 am
karizmatic says:
All I’m going to say on this one is I don’t understand where all the Lebron hate comes from. I mean NO, I don’t consider him the best small forward of all time, but if he did accomplish that then I couldn’t see that as being a bust. His potential is high enough that he could be the best if he maximizes his potential, but I mean potential is all about what someone could have possibly done. If I wanted to be picky about it I could say Jordan didn’t maximize his basketball potential, because he could have won 8 or 9 rings had he simply not retired.
That being said you can argue that LBJ isn’t even the best small forward in the league right now. Paul Pierce over the stretch of his career has put up great numbers and now has a ring. That’s just an argument though. I have said before and I’ll keep saying it I think LBJ is the best player in the league right now and he hasn’t even reached his potential. Yes his J is shaky, I think y’all don’t give him enough credit for his handles crab dribble notwithstanding. What other dude in the league is averaging nearly a triple double? What would the Cavs be without him? At his age he’s already taken his team to the finals. If he continues to grow he has the potential to be the best to ever play the game. As it stands right now he’s poised to “just” be the best player in the league.
Best all time Small Forwards imo
1. Bird
2. Pippen
3. Baylor
4. Dr. J
5. LBJ
6. Nique
7. Worthy
8. Pierce
9. Rick Barry
10.Havlicek
10.
July 17th, 2009 at 11:55 am
Chris From LB CALI says:
@LakeShow84 says:
1.) I can respect you because you are a “real” laker fan and you are not one of those that put BARKLEY up in the top PF category (with no rings)
2.) TRUE or FALSE?
-If Lebron was on the Lakers w/Phil Jackson are you saying that he would average alot less rebounds and alot less assists??
if you really believe that, then I’m sorry but you are just another BIAS Laker Fan.
July 17th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
Kevin says:
Crazy how so many of you totally missed the point of the article. It’s not about whether or not LeBron is the best SF ever right now. It’s not about whether LeBron is better than Kobe right now. AB is asking if LeBron at the end of the day has a career like ‘Nique, will people consider that a successful career or a failure? Jesus, learn how to fucking read you morons. All you guys see is “LeBron” and “best ever” in the same paragraph and you start period bleeding all over the forums.
July 17th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
pak-yaw says:
crab king already surpassed nique 3yrs ago…
but best ever? best small forward ever?
not even close…
July 17th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
Chris From LB CALI says:
@ pak-yaw
FINALLY!!!!we agree on somethin!!
July 17th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
Scrum says:
For all those comparing LeBron to Kobe, it’s not close. Even in the area that many consider to be Kobe’s strength (i.e. scoring), LeBron has better statistics. LeBron has better career stats in nearly all the major categories such as FG%, PPG, rebounds, assists, and steals. And, he is nearly identical in 3P%. When you look at playoff stats, LeBron elevates to a totally higher level in EVERY category, while Kobe stays roughly the same.
Kobe is a great player, but falls short of LeBron. The only thing Kobe has over LeBron is he has gotten better team support, and that frankly doesn’t equate to being a better player.
July 17th, 2009 at 6:44 pm
JustPuked says:
The ultimate measure of a player is, does he will his team to win championships. It’s the only measurement that counts in the long run. It’s why LeBron isn’t satisfied with league MVP or stats (and why you shouldn’t be that impressed with them either). It’s why Wade and Kobe give LeBron crap. All the gaudy stats don’t mean a thing if you can’t elevate your team to win the championship. Until King James does that, he won’t be considered the greatest SF of all time.
July 17th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
Luigi says:
maybe u can retitle it….Greatest to NEVER win the BIG ONE.
July 18th, 2009 at 3:11 am
aaron says:
mj changed the game. that’s what he bron would have to do. he has to change the way people think and approach the game. not just against him but in general
mj made the isolation one on one play popular even tho he played and won in that triangle system. bron is gonna have to do something different. that one on one isn’t working for him but he does need better teammates.
right now bron is such a physical force its astounding but he’s not gonna be the greatest ever just off of neck above the rim dunks. He has to master the game first. Nice to see him play D this year but offensively he either shoots a jumper or charges the rim. If he gets a got to move or a post game he’ll be on his way. A legit post game that is!
July 19th, 2009 at 6:58 am
KING_kapo says:
Guys you don’t know nothin,LBJ i best player ever.whit this strainght,speed,ball control and brain,his allready BEST of all time…..
July 19th, 2009 at 10:54 pm
matt says:
bron bron needs either (1) a real point guard that will run a real offense (cp3, dwill, jason kidd, etc) or (2) a strong coach with a real system that doesn’t NEED a desrcript point and will tell him what to do (like phil and the triangle in l.a. or the cutting/center-passing offense adleman runs).
until he gets one of those things–and he continues to hog that damn ball–all he’ll be able to do is crab dribble past the washington wizards.
July 20th, 2009 at 10:27 am
SagJism says:
Never has there been so much hype for a loser player. Yes Lebron has skills and yes he is a dominant specimen because of his physical nature but to rate him better than Bird, Or Gerv, or Dr. J., Oscar? You guys must have lost your minds. Win something before you go with all that and with how LBJ has been acting lately he could not have played during that time because he is too much of a punk and crybaby to have lasted. I still cant get over the missing tape of the dunk. Anyone else in history would have been dogged so bad they would have quit but not this guy, he gets a pass no matter howw much he fuks up which makes me dislike him even more.
July 20th, 2009 at 10:29 am
SagJism says:
@53, please put that crack pipe down.
July 21st, 2009 at 11:27 am
QQ says:
lotta lebron haters. i agree with #32. Lebron does things no one else has ever been capable of (insert getting dunked on in summer camp joke here Lebron haters).
July 21st, 2009 at 3:43 pm
KT says:
For Lebron’s career to be considered a success, I think he needs more than one title and he needs to keep his teams competitive. I don’t think he will go down as the greatest player of all time, just because I think he will be less effective when the times come at 31 and 32, when he starts to lose some of that freakish athleticism, to change the way he plays. With Lebron I think that he will go down as the greatest athlete in NBA history and a top five baller all time.
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:41 am
AB_40 says:
maximize his potential?
I wonder how long his body is gonna take all that pounding.
but he must lead the leauge in assists at least once. and have a season where he averages over 2 steals and over 2 blocks per game. have a 6:1 assist turnover ratio. get at least one back to back and don’t get beat by durant in 2 years as the best small forward in the game today.
I think when he get’s older he’s gonna lose some of that weight because he will become less explosive he’ll play a good game till he’s 35/36 and then stay in the nba till he’s like 42? something like that.
Barring injury I think he can go down as top 15 all time somewhere in there. top 5? with these rules? no way