The King of Pop
Kobe Bryant (photo. Chris Sembrot)
Somewhere in the unwritten manual of home training, I’m sure there’s something about not criticizing a man’s funeral. But Michael Jackson‘s internationally-televised memorial service was not the standard funeral. And not because of some erroneous notion that Mike is more important than anyone else, but because his funeral was — albeit inevitably, given his celebrity — executed more like an awards show. (You think the Mr. Blackwells of the world weren’t debating whether or not to run a “Best and Worst Dressed” list?)
So I know I’m not the only person who wondered aloud why — for an event where the list of speakers was obviously carefully selected from a large pool of candidates — Kobe Bryant was on stage alongside Magic Johnson. If you didn’t know about THIS, it seemed simple enough: The memorial was in L.A., Kobe is the most popular person in L.A. right now, he has a clear link to Magic (if not Michael), so he was granted a spot to speak. And I’m not criticizing Kobe at all; a lot of people in his position would be honored to receive the invitation, and if he’d turned it down, it would be a bigger, more negative story than if he’d accepted.
But watching Kobe on the stage, I realized his more defining connection to Michael. That in a lot of ways, Kobe represents a lot of what Michael Jackson has been in his public life.
The initial comparisons are easy: Both supremely talented child prodigies who were raised to be superstars and followed through on their potential, both resonate with fans in other countries arguably more than with their rabid fans in America, both dedicated students of their respective crafts with clear influences from past idols (Michael by James Brown, Kobe by Jordan).
But the clearest and most lasting similarity goes deeper than that. For all their talent and considering all the people who are obsessed with knowing every detail of their lives, no one has ever really been able to figure out Kobe Bryant or Michael Jackson.
Think of the machines that produced these two public figures. The post-Jackson 5 version of Michael came along when the concept of music videos was about to explode, and right when the media had figured out how to use all of its resources to create and cultivate a megastar. Kobe came along after the media had perfected it, and after Jordan brought that paparazzi element to pro sports.
Mike and Kobe were raised differently than their celebrity peers, almost in a bubble. After reaching fame at a young age, they’ve each endured family feuds, public humiliation, rampant criticism, and damn near went to jail. Eventually, it all manifested itself in Mike and Kobe guarding their private lives fiercely, and micro-managing their exposure.
As I’m writing this, an A&E “Biography” on Mike Tyson is on TV. One line from the show that stood out: “[Tyson] was once the richest and most famous athlete in the world, yet he remains the hardest to understand.”
In 2009, I’d reserve that line for Kobe. Though his story is still being told, there’s a good chance that by the time he’s done, we still won’t know much more about him.
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July 8th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
thomasmmm says:
KB24 = king of hop
July 8th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
Scott says:
You’re going to get ripped on for this, I guarantee it.
But I like the article, and the conclusion saved face, good points.
July 8th, 2009 at 5:26 pm
douglas copeland says:
Hell of an article Austin.That’s so true.You know as I watched him speaking(a real scripted speech at that)at Michael Jackson’s funeral and I thought the same thing.Both of them have striking similarities from there gaurded behavior,there both prodigies like you said, both ICONS and like you said we can all pretty much say we know pretty much nothing about them personally beyond what there famous for. And thered birthday are a mere 6 days apart, Kobes is 8/23 , Michael Jackson’s is 8/29.
July 8th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
LFan says:
True. If only Kobe was crazy and turning into a white guy, they’d be the same person.
Wasn’t MJ on Kobe’s witness list during the whole Colorado fiasco?
July 8th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
az says:
agree with post 2…. but still a good read
July 8th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
Rangerjohn says:
Man where where all these suporters when Jackson was sleeping with little boys? Or when blew 500 million before racking up another 400 mil in debt? Or when he was hanging his own kid off a balcony? All mike Jackson love is crazy!!! I mean damn the man didn’t even make a decent song after what 1985? And decent for the time I might add.
Sure it is sad to lose an icon or what ever but farah fawcet died the same day, Billy mays 3 days after and Ed mcmahan 3 days before. The only reason he got this much hype is because of the color of his skin IMO.
July 8th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
Michorizo says:
I began to read this article with the thought of it being shitty, but it ended up being a good read
July 8th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
Jason says:
This is why Kobe spoke at the memorial:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Kobe-Bryant-remembers-Michael-Jackson?urn=nba,173478
July 8th, 2009 at 5:55 pm
sam says:
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/kobe_bryant_proves_he_can_win
July 8th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
Ian says:
ranger who the fuck is billy mays?
austin good article and all but dont like the comparisons.
July 8th, 2009 at 6:01 pm
MissChick says:
One more thing they have in common: both like to sexually assault white people
July 8th, 2009 at 6:01 pm
jams says:
Dude this much is true. You are much dumber that you think.
July 8th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
jams says:
Austin Burton,
Wow captain obviously needed the clicks, what else did you discover this week. That fried chicken is high in fat? Or That there is a connectioning Flight between London and Paris. :”Mike and Kobe were raised differently than their celebrity peers, almost in a bubble.” Please never flex on subject that you have no clue about stick your regular diatribe. You elk is not near smart enough for the subject of this discuss.
July 8th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
Austin Burton says:
My elk are actually very intelligent.
July 8th, 2009 at 6:12 pm
Lakers Nation says:
i thought about writing the same topic after watching and experiencing the Funeral procession in SoCal, but i just couldn’t find enough similarities. Overall, I don’t agree . . . i think if you change your question to this – “[Kobe] was once the richest and most famous athlete in the world, yet he remains the hardest to understand for those who refuse to give him a chance.” – East Coast Biased writing comes through again for Dime Magazine!
July 8th, 2009 at 6:12 pm
jams says:
Damn, i am pissed off. There is always another fool trying to take advantage. Nothing is too personal not to be pimped. Who the hell is this bitch Austin Burton anyway? Making comparisms that his father is not educated enough attempt.
July 8th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
jams says:
Fuck your elk and the tree it fell from.
July 8th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
eyeused2b says:
@Rangerjohn…It’s kind of hard to respond to you without insulting the recently deceased, but I’ll try to be sensitive. While famous, Mrs. Fawcett and Mr. MacMahon did not have the same international, cultural, and generational impact as Mr. Jackson, and Mr. Mays was not so much a celebrity as he was a familiar face. As for you opinion that the hype was because of the color of Mr. Jackson’s skin, I can only say, “huh?”
July 8th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
jams says:
Dude, somethings you leave the fuck alone.
If I ran around making overarching statements about your parents just from watching them fuck through the window, how would your mother feel? What in God’s good name gives you the right to make such bombastic statements? Despite admitting that you don’t know, what you don’t know, you still went ahead and threw up allover yourself. For what, the clicks?
July 8th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
. says:
“So I know I’m not the only person who wondered aloud why — for an event where the list of speakers was obviously carefully selected from a large pool of candidates — Kobe Bryant was on stage alongside Magic Johnson”
Michael Jackson and Kobe were close friends. You do know that right? They talked on the phone a lot and always tlked back and forth….
July 8th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
rangerjohn says:
IAN, billy mays is the oxy clean guy, you know the loud obnoxious sales guy.
eyeused2b
yesi agree jackson did have more international influence no doubt BUT the hypocricy is deadly these days. out of the MILLIONS of people crying, sobbing, or righting articles about his death and his life, 99% talked trash about him and his legal/financial problems and where extreamly anti mike. now that he is gone, its like none of that ever happened. i mean really, either you hate the man for playing with little boys in his bed on his ranch, or you love him for his music but the 2 dont go together. you can not celebrate his life without the bad things.
i to am trying not to disrespect him but those who will change their point of view from one second to the next depending on what fits their needs or wants at that moment. have some consistency in your life. i have been called a lot of things here on this site but nobody can call me inconsistent, wish more people would do the same.
and as for his color, so do you think there will be as big a deal when julio iglesias dies? he has arguably been just as internationally influential as mike jackson. the only reason there was this much hoopla is because he is maybe the most famous black man in pop culture. (until OJ dies) but the operable word ehre is black.
the really sad thing, his own family was pimping their own music during his memorial. how unloved or disrespected within his own family was he really?
July 8th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
Diego says:
Nice article, AB.
I didn’t catch most of the funeral, because I thought the whole thing was overblown, but I am an old dude, so I remember Michael well:
— He was a child star in early 70s with family, when groups like that (along with hour-long tv variety shows were in vogue). (White folks’ version: The Osmonds.)
— In late 70s, the grown-up Jacksons released Destiny. Great album (I bought it at the time–still got it), which really launched Michael’s career as an adult.
— He bagged his brothers (he basically was star of Destiny album) and came out with Off the Wall (again, great album) and Thriller (bought them both at the time, of course), the latter of which, as you said previously, really benefitted tremendously from MTV’s video heyday–it was the perfect storm.
— After that, We are the World, etc., but the gradual real wackiness (psychological issue re. his appearance? lack of true adult guy friends/peers to keep him normal? creative genious leading to nuttiness? some sort of mixture and then some) and decline frankly of real relevance for the last 2 decades (but he sold all of those London tix).
But like Elvis–who really hadn’t done much relevant in many year prior to his death–, Michael’s legend is bound to continue to grow.
Beyond his singing and groundbreaking dance moves, the media and Hollywood have always been fascinated with Michael; thus, to a large degree, the over-the-top (in my humble opinion) hype. And a lot of the same bandwagon folks (Usher?) popping up at the funeral.
July 8th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
douglas copeland says:
ian why don’t you like the comparisons?because Kobe’s as great in basketball as Michael was in pop music?Jay said it best “Some people hate”
July 8th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
LakeShow84 says:
Good Article AB..
@ RANGERJOHN
“so do you think there will be as big a deal when julio iglesias dies? he has arguably been just as internationally influential as mike jackson”
Aruguable if you possessed by Johnny Cochran..
Next time say IMO.. cuz thats all in yo opinion pahtna.. You saw WORLD WIDE people tuning into MJ’s funeral.. Mofo’s in Turkey could give a shit when Iglesias dies..
PSH..
July 8th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
LakeShow84 says:
IN MY OPINION
I think Santana was/is more internationally influential than F’in Julio Iglesias..
July 8th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
Kobeef says:
BREAKING
Yao out for the season.
July 8th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
goonther says:
jams-
get the FUCK offa this site and spew your mucus elsewhere. do you run a magazine? do you even run a website? blog? myspace? yeaaa.. that’s what i thought. no one wants to hear anything you say in other words.
post your useless trash elsewhere.
July 8th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
Diego says:
Another point, take it or leave it: A damn shame a guy with Michael’s talent was not stable enough to develop other talent, produce and branch out like a lot of the young rappers of today (who have less musical talent, imo). Frankly, a waste in that regard.
Oh, and Farrah was very relevant in her tv era: Show me a young male teen then that did not feed the ducks while looking at that red swimsuit poster, and I’ll show you one that just didn’t fancy the ladies. And hey, what about Karl Malden, while we’re at it?: “Don’t leave home without it.”
July 8th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
LAballer says:
although i dont fully agree with the article i think it brings up great points and was really well written to convey those specific points..
why is there so much hate on the article? you can always click the “x” button on the top right fellas and be gone..
julio iglesias? seriously dude? wtf? go on youtube..type in michael jackson concert bucharest..matter of fact..ill give u the link son..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uTQYYwjMIk
check that out..watch the first 2+ mins or so..this man comes out on stage and stands there for 90 seconds while over 70 thousand people lose their collective shit..he then proceeds to move his fuckin skull an inch and they lose their shit EVEN MORE..name another person/celeb on this earth who could have gone to any single place and have that happen..this is in ROMANIA..he could do this anywhere..in any country..in any city..i dont think you can name anyone else that can possibly come near doing that..and if you can..you come up with JULIO FUCKING IGLESIAS? LOLLLL
July 8th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
Billie Jean Hoyle says:
Didnt Julio Iglesias marry that fine tennis player?
July 8th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
rangerjohn says:
ok so how many of you MJ lovers (i really only see the LA guys defending) where there defending him while he was fucking little boys? how many of you where therye defending when he was hanging his own son off a balcony? how many of you lent him a dollar to help him get back on his feet while he blew that 900 million dollars?
damn la is full of hypocrits!
July 8th, 2009 at 7:15 pm
POPPI GEE says:
Nice One AB! Just hope that Kobe doesn’t die before his time as we see it as well.
I guess MJ did what he thought he had to do to protect himself and Kobe the same right now.
You often find out more about a person through death than you do through life sometimes. Somewhat sad but true.
Again nice article.
July 8th, 2009 at 7:15 pm
Blue says:
@jams…
STFU!
@rangerjohn…
yeah bro, not everything is about race. michael jackson was an icon known the world over. julio iglesias, although he has international appeal, wasn’t close to michael. i mean, 90% of people grew up with some version of michael jackson, whether it was jackson 5 michael or off the wall michael or thriller michael. it has nothing to do with the fact that he was black. if you asked kids in their teens they probably wouldn’t even have known that he was black!
@AB…
i’ll agree with you in that both MJ and Kobe are enigmas, but i’d have to guess that kobe’s upbringing was a little more stable (or a lot more stable), and that his problems aren’t so much a manifestation of a troubled childhood than it is his sense of entitlement. but i feel what you’re tryin’ to put together.
July 8th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
TBone says:
I don’t mean to nitpick but….
populer = popular
Sorry, couldn’t help it
July 8th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
fallinup says:
“i dont think you can name anyone else that can possibly come near doing that..and if you can..you come up with JULIO FUCKING IGLESIAS? LOLLLL”
had me rollin’
July 8th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
Blue says:
@rangerjohn…
don’t fuck with LA.
are you gonna hold it over Steve McNair’s head that he had an affair? are you gonna look passed his accomplishments?
what about when the croc hunter had his baby in his arms when he was feeding a croc? does that trump what he did to help protect animals and educate people?
nobody knows what happened with that boy except michael, the boy and God. if he did it, hell yeah he was wrong. but the joy that he spread to billions of people shouldn’t be overlooked. the trails he blazed, and the hearts he touched. the king of pop…you don’t get that title from being julio iglesias
July 8th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
rlf says:
michael and kobe were friends. do your research and you’ll find that out. the jackson family asked kobe to speak.
and kobe did in fact has said he and michael had many things in common…such as work ethic and being dedicated to music or sports. that michael thought him to appreciate many different types of music and movies.
there are a few quotes of kobe talking about it. you should do a little research on a topic you’re going to right. isn’t that what your school thought you?
July 8th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
rlf says:
btw, don’t you have friends? he is an athlete, why do you want to know how he truly is?
no one knows how anyone truly is.
enjoy the athlete and let the man be how he pleases. that’s not your business.
he doesn’t owe you or anyone anything.
July 8th, 2009 at 7:34 pm
rangerjohn says:
blue
i could care less about LA.
you guys go right on ahead and take both sides, go ahead and have it both ways (i hear they like it that way over there). the man was a freak show, his family is/was a freak show, his life was a freak show. dont give me that whole “he made billions of people happy” BS, it was not a single thing that happened like mcnair, or steve irwin, it was DECADES of things. next thing your gonna tell me that oj’s acomplishments on the field should not be over looked just because of that pesky double murder thing a few yrs ago or teh current prison time he is serving. or that mike vick is a stand up guy even though he bankrolled the brutal deaths of hudreds of dogs.
it is about race, there are about 5 black men/women who will not defend “the king” even though they KNOW he was a nasty freak show. this is the reason i brought up julio iglesias who happens to be one of the 10 best and msot influencial music stars in history but you guys from LA (and other places) wouldnt understand that because you are to busy spending all your tax dollars ona funeral for a man who “loved” little boys (slept with strange little boys he paid for by his own admission)
“Julio Iglesias De la Cueva (born September 23, 1943 in Madrid) is a Spanish singer who has sold over 300 million albums[1] in 14 languages and released 77 albums. According to Sony Music he is one of the top 10 best selling music artists ever. While Iglesias rose to international prominence in the 1970s and 1980s as a performer of romantic ballads and as an iconically suave Spanish gentleman, his success has continued as he entered new musical endeavors. Thus far, he has performed approximately 5,000 concerts”
July 8th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
BiG ShoT BoB says:
RangerJohn is the definition of hypocrite and racist beyond belief. Michael is the best singer of alltime period no one even comes close the numbers don’t lie. No one will ever know for sure whether or not he was guilty just like they will never know if Kobe was guilty unless you were their.
July 8th, 2009 at 7:51 pm
fallinup says:
I think MJ might of molested rangerjohn in the past…hence all of this rage.
July 8th, 2009 at 7:52 pm
fallinup says:
or Julio Iglesias molested rangerjohn in the past…I’m not sure.
July 8th, 2009 at 7:52 pm
Big Island says:
Jams is an idiot. If you are going to insult someone’s intelligence, at least spell correctly.
I wondered why Kobe was up there, and this article didn’t do much to clarify it for me, but it was still pretty well written and made sense. Michael Wilbon said something last week that I can totally relate to. He is choosing to remember MJ up until the mid-80′s. After that he went off of the deep end.
And as much as it pains me to say, Al Sharpton said something to MJ’s kids about their dad not being strange and that nobody had to deal with what he dealt with. I thought that was very cool considering how everyone trashes him.
July 8th, 2009 at 8:05 pm
gigi says:
MJ was loved all around the world. His music accomplished so much, its crazy. From his videos to his vocals, all these rnb cats try to duplicate it. mjs memorial was a perfect fit, he needs to go out big like that.
July 8th, 2009 at 8:08 pm
-SEIZ- says:
LOL @ Ranger John.. You are really reaching with the whole Julio Igelias angle. You say Julio sold 300 million albums well Michael sold 750 million. Michael is arguagbly the greatest music artist of all time. No one had the amount of worldwide appeal that he had. Yes Michael had flaws but who doesn’t. This man has never been convicted of molesting children so you can think what you want but only a handful of people really KNOW what happened. People forget that Micheal was also a very generous person. The dude is the most chartitable pop star but no one ever talks about that.
And it is really not about race, its that Michael is arguably the most popular figure of our generation and people want to recognize the man for his accomplishments and what he meant to the world. If you don’t like him thats cool everyone is entitled to their opinion but I just think its in bad taste to slam a dead man’s name when most of what you know is hearsay…
July 8th, 2009 at 8:13 pm
sh!tfaced says:
hah! post no. 2 was right. and you gotta love the chain reaction every time something about jacko is written.
July 8th, 2009 at 8:14 pm
Julio Iglesias says:
Thanks for sticking up for me like I stuck it to you RJ!
July 8th, 2009 at 8:30 pm
rangerjohn (cap and tax LMAO oops) says:
#40, yep your right, i am a hypocrite, you better go look up the definition there smart guy. call me a racist if you like i could care less. if you guys have not figured it out over the last few yrs of being around this site, i LOVE all your bullshit comments, call me what you like, say what you will, i LOVE IT. i LOVE pissing in your post toasties, i love it when you guys get all pissy like a teenage girl when you say the jonas brothers are gay.
so go back to the drawing board, and i will reload some racist, anti boy lover shit and let you have it again in a few.
AND GOOD NIGHT NOW!
July 8th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
fallinup says:
And we love all of your bullshit comments, rangerjohn. Until the next hate-filled rant, I say good day sir.
* salutes
July 8th, 2009 at 8:41 pm
LAballer says:
rangerjohn
i dont even know where to begin with your ridiculous mind and comments half the time..where do you come up with some of this stuff? seriously..you think people in la dont know who julio iglesias is? were you born retarded or did you acquire that trait as you went along in life? listen im not a super michael fan..im not one of the screaming crazy people that sold everything they had just to come to see his casket..its not even that deep..but this dude is the most recognized celebrity in the world..did you take a look at the link i sent you? say you’re good pal julio decides to do a concert in budapest (hungary)..or say prague..or say turkey..or bali..mexico..brazil..australia..new dehli..name a place..i dont think he gets the same reaction or tickets sold as michael..i think michaels casket sells more tickets and im not even joking..so when you bring up ridiculous and ludicrous comparisons and then people decide to call you on your obvious stupidity..it doesnt help your case by bashing the guy and then saying “oh yeah you l.a. people…blah blah blah”..simply put you are a moron in several aspects which i dont really even want to get into cause that would be an essay in its own..
your problem with michael jackson isnt his fame..its that you feel someone ACCUSED of child molestation should not be given that much importance when they die..well how about you tell that to the hundreds of millions of peoples lives he has helped through his charity work..or you can find that little kid who claimed he molested him and see if he gives a shit..i think he is still too busy counting his money..and im not sure if anyone heard donald trump’s interview..(rangerjohn you may like this…he’s white)..but he went on to say that his kids have spent countless hours with michael as children and there was nothing even remotely close to molesting happening there..
im not denying mike is different to say the least..i mean he had some issues..a lot of issues..but call me crazy i just dont believe the little fucker when they are willing to take money to be quiet..i dont have kids..i will some day..and if anyone ever touched them..i dont think there is a sum of money that would allow me to let it go..and i live in la..which means i define materialism and i am literally IN LOVE with money..
basically..after all this..all im trying to say is..fuck off dude
July 8th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
rangerjohn (cap and tax LMAO oops) says:
LMAO good shit there LAballer.
see you completely miss the point as ussual. the julio refernce is based on the fact that he is not white yet he is a HUGE influence on music and peoples lives. julio is the as big or bigger in latin countrys like mexico.
and for the record, MJ IS NOT the #1 all time, elvis has sold to date more then 1 billion albums. oh and he is a white guy who did nto get the publicity of MJ.
the beatles have sold more then anyone and yet lennin didnt get the publicity of MJ.
and yeah jackson didnt molest trumps kids, he was crazy not stupid. he didnt molest any kids like oj didnt almost cut his wifes head off.
July 8th, 2009 at 9:12 pm
mosduff says:
wow. Lots of upset Kobe fans here…
Chill.
Pretty good article Mr. Burton. And I never post to say complimentary things…
July 8th, 2009 at 9:13 pm
mosduff says:
@ rangerjohn
dude. I hate to point this out, because of what it says about humanity, but Garth Brooks has sold more records than any of those acts.
scary and sad, I know.
July 8th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
LakeShow84 says:
Elvis might have sold more but he isnt an international ICON like MJ.. and i’ve listened to Elvis with an open mind.. Good voice but wasnt impressed..
The Beatles were a group.. collective talent.. shit 3/4 continued their careers afterwards right??
Lennon was close to becoming something of an international icon but he was too busy doing LSD and banging Yoko..
MJ was a ONE man show who lasted for 20 years AND you can bump his shit nowadays and get people nodding with you.. please someone bump the Beatles and tell me how many people under 30 give u a WTF look.. TEENAGERS who were born in the 90′s know Thriller, Bad, Beat It, etc.. before they were even squirted into the puss..
There really is no point in arguing with ignorance.. nowadays everyones wants to throw ur shit in ur face.. Look all we saying Michael Jackson’s CAREER is untouchable.. after 20-30 years it is STILL untouched.. Fuck what he did on his Saturdays.. the man inspired the WORLD and left all of us who know true music something we will have till the day we die..
fuckin Julio Iglesias.. GTFOH..
July 8th, 2009 at 9:27 pm
LAballer says:
again you are missing my point..as usual..you are a MORON
July 8th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
fallinup says:
Haha…all hell naw rangerjohn. You used the Elvis and Beatles argument. You forgot to mention how many albums Elvis and the Beatles sold WHILE ELVIS WAS LIVING and the BEATLES WERE STILL A GROUP. Which I’m pretty sure MJ has beat by a mile considering we can only count about a weeks worth of “posthumous” sales.
Give MJ a little time to settle in his grave before he can rival the time that Elvis and Lennon have been dead. I’m sure he’ll bet those numbers in the first 5 years of his death.
July 8th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
LAballer says:
http://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/chart_watch/35974/week-ending-july-5-2009-all-michael-all-the-time/
July 8th, 2009 at 11:21 pm
rangerjohn (cap and tax LMAO oops) says:
see here is where the race thing comes into play, see MJ would be something YOU would be nodding your head to, and your friends and the people you grew up with or live around. my guess is you live around, and asociate with black people more then white people.
elvis isnt my thing, but a lot of people who listen to country music enjoy elvis. just like johnny cash. roy orbison. and that list goes on and on.
i grew up in a rock culture and hell yeah the beatles are by far the greatest ever. go hang out with a buch of white people who are not into the whole “hi phop culture” or what ever you want to call it these days and you will find people who enjoy the ever lasting sound of the beatles and john lennon as a solo artist. you see i would not listen to the same music you listen to i am sure, it is a cultural thing, just like i cant stand kanye or 50 cent, you prolly dont do metalica or tool.
the only white people you will run into listening to MJ would be those who are either stuck in the 80′s or those who are sucked in to all the hype of his death.
imo i see 100000000 things more important then a memorial for EVERY news channel, and a city/state to spend their money on. i mean damn all you people in LA are sure spending a ton of money for his memorial yet your state cant aford to pay its employees? you can afford to pay for security for his memorial but your governator is asking your president for a hand out on an HOURLY basis?
PRIORITIES!
July 8th, 2009 at 11:28 pm
Celts Fan says:
Hate to jump in so late but I feel like I must…
@Ranger – Of course MJ got more pub when he died than Elvis or Lennon. You know they’ve added something like 800 channels and invented this thing called the internet since those guys passed, right?
@Lakeshow – Elvis is definitely an international icon. I’d take MJ over him in a second, but he is an icon.
I’m a 26 year old white guy that listens to everything (but country.). People my age and younger still fuck with MJ (not so much Elvis or the Beatles, though they are talented as hell.) That shit is timeless. They were bumping MJ all over NYC last weekend and the bars went nuts when Billy Jean came on. There’s no truer test than to play something at 2am in a bar packed w/ drunken 20somethings. People still love that music. Say what you will about him as a person, but he was one of the best entertainers ever and his music was amazing. Hell, I still get down to “I Want You Back”
RIP
July 8th, 2009 at 11:53 pm
LAballer says:
wow..i could write a book my friend..i could write a book..
your last post solidified without a shadow of a doubt your ignorance and every single thought i had of you..thank you for that..you really dont even deserve to be addressed at this point..it would be like speaking to a wall..
ey celts fan same shit here in la last weekend man and especially the weekend before when news first broke..it was going NUTS
July 9th, 2009 at 3:08 am
Ian says:
big shot michael is the greatest performer ever not singer.
ranger really the oxy clean guy?? wtf do people in the states care about him?? shit.
douglas im sorry but apparently in not the only one who likes it and like someone pointed out on LA fans are defending it. did i bash the article? no. did i insult your boy? no. i said i didnt like it thats it. why do you care so much that i dont like kobe? you take this way to personal.
lakeshow
santana really?? i think you are misjudging some of the guys you mentioned not everywhere people give a fuck about michael yes i know iglesias cant compare but he would sell out everywhere he goes and here and in spain i doubt they care more about michael. btw yes elvis was known worldwide.
btw ranger michael didnt fuck any little kids it was just the parents tryin to get money would you take money if someone fucked your son? prob not you would wanna see that bitch in jail or dead. i bet the parents were telling the kids on the way to michaels house to touch his dick. same shit with kobe he didnt rape shit if it were someone else she wouldnt have done shit.
celts fan is right when some other famous musician dies in 20 years hes gonna get more exposure than michael.
July 9th, 2009 at 3:48 am
Colton says:
holy shit … a lot of comments … and also … kobe born on 8/23 … kobe was number 8 … jordan was … 23!!! another comparison! HEEEYYY-OOOO!!!
July 9th, 2009 at 5:11 am
Sweet English says:
When the fuck did Dime turn into fucking 4chan?
July 9th, 2009 at 5:15 am
Sweet English says:
@ post 13
‘Please never flex on subject that you have no clue about stick your regular diatribe. You elk is not near smart enough for the subject of this discuss.’
Come again?
If you are going to diss someone for not being intelligent enough, don’t end your post with this.
July 9th, 2009 at 6:28 am
M Intellect says:
Austin – Your writing is really on point.
Sometimes you walk a tightrope with your choice of topics being borderline weird but you deliver them so well and with such structure that a subject that seems left field to begin with comes across as very balanced and logical. In that sense your kinda like a literary Renaldo Blackman.
Literally speaking, you have the right register to engage with Dime’s audience but at the same time you don’t sacrifice high-grammar and vocabulary.
I just thought I’d give you some props because I seen the heavy criticism you take on certain stuff, Read: Draft Picks, TP9, etc… and also because I clicked this thinking what-the-fuck-type-of-shit-is-this and came away seeing your point.
July 9th, 2009 at 6:51 am
M Intellect says:
Ranger – MJ was the King of Pop. Not a black genre of music like Rap or a white one like Rock, but Popular. That is music for everyone.
Your statements that;
“my guess is you live around, and asociate with black people more then white people.”
“the only white people you will run into listening to MJ would be those who are either stuck in the 80’s or those who are sucked in to all the hype of his death.”
are quite controvertial.
It implies that MJ’s music is only for people who are black, grew up with black people or want to be black. I know plenty of people who are white, grew up with white people and want to be white who bump MJ.
It also implies that white people who listen to MJ are either stuck in a time warp or fickle and that is a disrespect to the man and his body of work. More to the point if people listening to him where stuck in the 80′s are people listening to Elvis and the Beatles stuck in the 60′s and 70′s?
I’m not going to list more examples but I seen footage of screaming pre-teen German fans, which I’m sure don’t fall into that category. MJ was universally appreciated, at least as a performer.
ALSO – Dude when 5-fucking-times-Diamond. That’s 50 million albums. You telling me the majority of those were bought by black people? HELL NO. If you think otherwise consider the fact that something like 2 out of 3 RAP albums, which are undoubtedly geared towards Young, Black, Urban Males, are bought by white kids. So when MJ drops something that is undoubtedly better music plus family friendly and pretty much fit for any occasion, I think they’ll cop that too.
I understand the priorities point but in addition to criticising the greatest ever perfomer (Who danced and sung better then him?), there is a racial undertone comes across in this, whether you are or not.
July 9th, 2009 at 8:17 am
rangerjohn (cap and tax LMAO oops) says:
M intellect
so far you are the 1st person to put together a decent arguement, clear, to the point with no bias or discourse shown.
if you read any of my other posts here, those statements where made to be contraversial, i enjoy messingwith the LA boys and they get their panties in a wad for the slightest “slight”.
so since you bring up german pre-teens, sure they love MJ, can you really use them as an example? they LOVE david hasselhoff MORE! or how about the french, where jerry lewis is a comedic genius, nearly a god like idol?
and yes a LOT of the beatles and elvis followers ARE stuck ing the 60′s and 70′s (60′s ,more then anything)
if you think people being stuck in the 80′s is a disrespect to his body of work i have to ask, when was his last hit? when was the last song that hit #1? here let me fill you in, 2001 he made invincible, no #1′s, 1995 he made a “history” album which did have a little #1 BUT it was (as the title states) his 80′s music like a greatest hits, his last REAL hit was dangerous in 1991. that is pretty dang close to the 80′s. so yes i would say if you are a regular fan, not just a track sampling theif, then you could be considered stuck in teh 80′s.
and all this “oh the clubs blew up last weekend especially after the news broke”, just proves my point, i wonder how many of you die hard fans HONESTLY had ANY of his music in your car, or on your ipod BEFORE he died? my guess is MAYBE 1. the man died, he was an icon sure, sad? ok! worth all the hype definately not. his life was a freak show and yet people throw all that out the window. iguess he has that in common with kobe also, both of their “transgresions” have been uterly forgotten in seconds flat.
like i said before, next you guys are going to tell me OJ didnt do it TWICE and should be set free. where do i get the koolaid from?
July 9th, 2009 at 9:36 am
SWAT says:
lol @ rangerjohn…yall should be used to this cats comments by now. everyone is entitled to their opinion. but i will say this ranger…i have all of his cd’s except HIStory, plus his concert dvd. i was a fan as a kid and became even more of a fan as i got older. i will agree tht alot of these cats supporting him now were not a couple of years ago, i used to catch shit for having his music in my jeep, with bang-i might add, from my boys. now all of a sudden people are buying his music like it just dropped…so yes i agree with you in tht aspect. but even though his albums may not have any new hits for the last couple of years it still jammed. ck out the joint he did with santana off of invincible, i mean damn even blood on the dance floor was good…at least to me. but dude was an icon, he wrote his own music, played many instruments, set up the production, set up the percussion arrangements-bottom line dude was a genius. he broke the ground and introduced alot of things to the mainstream media, break dancing (Turbo used to train him-lol)the adlibs, live performing while dancing, dude was the greatest. yes dude made bad decisions but i dont believe the HYPE.
good article!
July 9th, 2009 at 10:25 am
chris says:
all i need to know is that michael jackson and kobe bryant both found their motivation to be great in that trite piece of lit, ‘jonathan livingston seagull’…scary to think how great each might have been if motivated by something a little more complicated, no?
July 9th, 2009 at 10:28 am
fallinup says:
We’ve had a Jackson 5 cd in our family van since we’ve had the van. The kids love all those bubble gum grooves, and I’ve been a giant fan of MJ for forever.
You can call him a freak all you want, but at 8 years old, and even younger…Michael Jackson could friggin wail.
I don’t do a DJ gig unless I got Thriller and Off the Wall. Off the Wall is my personal favorite, but Thriller is Thriller. I grew up a midwest kid, with limited access to anything…I can still remember all the kids in the neighborhood talking about the first time ‘the moonwalk’ happened. I can still remember my first time seeing Thriller on Friday Night Videos, and also watching ‘Making of Thriller’ on them big laser disc things that precluded VHS. Haha. Hell, all of the neighborhood kids got together and we acted out Thriller one day..(I was a zombie. LOL) We’d all try to break dance, and we only had two tapes to dance two, Purple Rain, and Thriller. Those were the days.
MJ grew up, got on his own and by age 25 was a multi millionaire, a fixture in American culture. For two years atleast…TWO YEARS…this guy’s album and songs was blastin on the airwaves. He was a wonder. You can’t deny that, and you can’t say he wasn’t. Everyone who was able to remember the 80′s remembers a part of Michael Jackson. That’s just the way it is.
Yeah he went a little nuts. Yes he did some things that to the normal joe wouldn’t be legit. But I say, he was far…FAR from the normal joe. All this guy knew was show business..from the day he could walk. You live in a bubble like that all your life, you’re gonna be a little crazy at least. The man never grew up. He never had to.
But to expect him to be a good ole boy like the rest of us is as close minded as it is insane.
You can call him a pedophile all you want but last I saw…there were two families that went after him for it…One happily excepted 20mil to shut up about it…which the point was made before that the fact they took the money and ran should be an indicator of what they were actually after…and the other family had a history of leaching off of celebrities. Haha…that’s why MJ was aquitted…the family was TOTALLY discredited.
I shook my head as MJ faded in the last 15 odd years. But I was still rooting for him. I remember listening on my way home from work to the verdict live…and honking my horn like crazy when they read all of the innocent counts….BTW, ALL COUNTS HE WAS INNOCENT. So other than that, all the hate about him is what is is…HYPE, and HATE. Nothing more, nothing less.
I’m not gonna hate on a guy like that for being different. Because in a huge sense, the media, fans, they made him.
I’m going to look back like I’ve always done…and remember all of those times that I’ve been amazed by him. Fuck all of those #1′s…all the album sales…this guy made grown ass men scream like little babies during his shows.
And as much as his star has faded in the US…it’s still it’s brightest elsewhere in the world. And no one even bothers to mention ALL….ALL of the charity work this guy has done.
MJ was and will forever be one of a kind. He’s so famous, he’s got folks that love him, and folks that utterly despise him.
But I’d say close to everyone…knows him…
July 9th, 2009 at 11:00 am
fallinup says:
And BTW…there are Elvis fans out there now that argue who was better…the 50′s Elvis, or the 70′s Elvis.
There’s Beatles fans out there now that argue which was better…the bubble gum pop, crew cut beatles…or the drugged up, psychedelic 70′s Beatles.
And there are people out there now that will argue which MJ was better. The Jackson 5, motown MJ. The solo 80′s MJ…and the light skinned freakshow MJ (90′s and beyond).
So the statement… about MJ not hitting #1 in over a decade is irrelevant. Elvis definetly wasn’t on the top of his game when he died. Same with the Beatles. But you can’t say they weren’t remembered for the ENTIRE body of work. Hell, they sold more dead than when they were alive.
So why say MJ’s hype wasn’t deserved. Because you’re opinion changed of him throughout time?
July 9th, 2009 at 11:14 am
doc says:
I wouldnt say Kobe was raised in a bubble.He used to come to Mconigle and ball when he was a kid like everybody else.He wasnt no famous star.
July 9th, 2009 at 11:16 am
fallinup says:
Yeah, in relevance to the article…I thought Austin was ‘reaching’ a bit. But hey, it did get people commenting.
July 9th, 2009 at 11:24 am
doc says:
yall be taking that shit ranger say to heart.He just be wanting a response half the time.Any black man not named Tim Duncan will get bashed for all his accomplishments.He comes with this Enrique sold 300 mill bs and when somebody states Mike doubled that shit he makes up some Elvis sold a billion shit.Let him talk his bs when we all know it was more white people crying for mike than anything else.
July 9th, 2009 at 11:28 am
fallinup says:
Blasphemy doc, straight blasphemy.
It was Julio…not Enrique. Get it right, or I’ll have to bust you up. No one disses my Julio Iglesias.
N.O. O.N.E.
period.
July 9th, 2009 at 11:44 am
jay says:
first off interesting article. i agree with some and disagree on the others. with the olympics kobe has opened up a lot the last few years and see his personal (funny) side. he will never be a shaq or bron but he has definitely opened up. I think the memorial was over the top and michael did a lot for society as magic touch upon and transcended culture but california is in serious trouble. with the number of celebs there like an mtv awards show they could not foot the bill for california tax payers?? that is an argument for another day!
while kobe was a child prodigy he was not on michaels level thou he was in isolation so there you can make the comparision. I am not going to go on mj’s private life but it was messed up to say the least. i am not going to pass judgement but being a lawyers son and he had charges brought up not once but twice. talented person but a very odd individual to say the least. I would not put kobe in that category at all. interesting read! I would actually compare if you want to make a comparsion of kobe with will smith. both come from semi affluent homes. if i am not mistaken will was never taken as a serious rapper due to the fact he really did not come from the streets but crossed over to mainstream on the rap side…and thou cosby was the first will kinda brought hip-hop mainstream..aka to the burbs with the tv show. i would have to say and call me wrong but kobe brought a swagger from the burbs to the nba…i would say grant was the first. calvin maybe more famous than joe jelly bean but a kid who came from the burbs (not from the inner city) and brought a swagger about him where both grant and kobe came from somewhat privilege but both determined to pave their own way. i would say griffey jr started this prior to grant hill. i know i am a little off topic but that is what I see..fresh kobe from pacific palisades.ha..ha!
July 9th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
control says:
Bottomline is this:
If Michael Jackson was ANYONE else in this world, he would have died in jail. There’s no way ANYONE gets to engage in behavior that is even consistently QUESTIONABLE with that many young children without going to jail. Where are the motherfuckers who are always crying about “protect and save the children” and that shit when MJ was diddlin em?
Ain’t no one out there that can honestly say that if a friendly truck driver drove around the states randomly sleeping in the same bed with little boys by the dozen, that he wouldn’t be rotting his ass in jail, and probably getting the DQ swirl treatment.
NO ONE pays over 20 god damn million dollars to someone because they are innocent. 20 MILLION…that would go quite a long ways to defend yourself in court, there is no way in hell that it is economically feasible to settle for that amount if you are innocent.
Was this diddler a great performer? Yes
Was he a very talented musician? Yes, before he went all twisted.
Does his accomplishments give him a free pass? Helllllll no.
We should all be thankful that this guy is dead, children of the world are a touch more safer from random diddlin. Here’s hoping he is burning in hell right now.
July 9th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
fallinup says:
20 mil is chump change to Jackson. This is a guy that ALONE made 2 dollars off of every album of Thriller sold. Thriller sold 109 mil. Just Thriller.
This is what I read on wikipedia about that. If it’s false…have em change it.
“In the summer of 1993, Jackson was accused of child sexual abuse by a 13-year-old boy named Jordan Chandler and his father, Evan Chandler, a dentist.[87] A year after Jackson met the boy, under the influence of sodium amytal, a controversial sedative, Jordan told his father that Jackson had touched his penis. The father was tape-recorded discussing his intention to pursue charges, where he said, “If I go through with this, I win big-time. There’s no way I lose. I will get everything I want and they will be destroyed forever … Michael’s career will be over”.[89] He and Jackson engaged in unsuccessful negotiations to reach a financial settlement; the negotiations were initiated by Chandler but Jackson did make several counter offers. Jordan told a psychiatrist and later police that he and Jackson had engaged in acts of kissing, masturbation and oral sex, as well as giving a detailed description of what he alleged were the singer’s genitals.[90]
An official investigation began, with Jordan’s mother adamant that there was no wrongdoing on Jackson’s part. Neverland Ranch was searched; and multiple children and family members denied that Jackson was a pedophile,[90] though his image took a further hit when his older sister, La Toya, accused him of being a pedophile, a statement she later retracted.[91] Jackson agreed to a 25-minute strip search, conducted by police and doctors at his ranch, required to see if a description provided by Jordan of Jackson’s genitals was accurate. Doctors concluded there were strong similarities, but it was not a definitive match.[91] His friends said he never recovered from the humiliation. He described the search in an emotional public statement, and proclaimed his innocence.[87]
He began taking painkillers and sedatives, including Valium, Ativan, and Xanax, in part to ease chronic pain resulting from an accident with stage rigging during the Dangerous Tour, and for joint inflammation associated with the lupus, but also to ease the panic attacks stemming from the allegations against him. By the fall of 1993, he was addicted.[92] His health deteriorated to such an extent that he canceled the remainder of the Dangerous World Tour and went into rehab in London for a few months, dramatically disappearing from public view with the help of Elizabeth Taylor and Elton John.[93] The stress of the allegations also caused him to stop eating, and he lost a significant amount of weight.[94] With his health in decline, his friends and legal advisers took over his defense and finances. They called on him to settle the child-abuse allegations out of court, believing he could not endure a lengthy trial.[93][94]
The tabloids painted him in an extremely unfavorable light.[95] Complaints about them included bias against Jackson, paying for stories about alleged criminal activity, and buying leaked confidential material from the police investigation.[96] On January 1, 1994, Jackson settled with the Chandlers out of court for $22 million, after which Jordan stopped co-operating regarding criminal proceedings. Jackson was never charged, and the state closed its criminal investigation, citing lack of evidence.[97]“
July 9th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
Ian says:
doc
enrique sucks and is little fag.
July 9th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
Ian says:
fallinup
heres my prob with that so this little kid that was told to lie by his fag father described michaels genitals?? what did he say to balls , shaft and head? i mean how the hell can you describe someones genitals to someone else and have them look for a match?
the pedophile thing is bullshit if that shit were true michael could just buy some asian kids and no one would know about it. the one that should burn in hell is that kids father.
ps we dont even have to get started on the other family.
July 9th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
the cynic says:
@lakeshow84
i just want to clarify a comment from a previously thread. I wasn’t saying Kobe raped that nasty bitch, hell no i don’t believe he raped that drunk ass hoe. I was trying to give an example (however poor) how celebrities often bring these accusations upon themselves and they don’t just come out of nowhere. Usually when celebrities think they are bigger and better then other people, or can do whatever they want; they set themselves up as a target. It may not be fair, but its the truth. MJ/Kobe have both been celebrity targets who at the time showed horrible self-awareness
July 9th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
rangerjohn says:
fallinup
if 20 mil is chump change? how do you figure when the man was 400 MILLION IN DEBT! let me put it this way, if someone says hey fallinup, you pay me 20,000 or i will tell the world you sucked labrons dick (not intending to offend you just using an off example) and all the while you dont have the 20k, and in fact you actually OWE 20 times that amount broken down to 500 different banks or loan sharks. now you for sure are going to get the 20k but it is not easy and it might just piss the people you owe more moeny to off even more.
remember he was being sued by the prince of darfur or what ever place he went because he ran up a HUGE tab without permission.
20 mil was not chump change to a man who blew 500 million BEFORE going into debt ANOTHER 400 million.
July 9th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
fallinup says:
@ 81
I agree totally. When the second time the whole child molester thing came up, all I remember doing is wondering why Michael would do such a thing to even get him into that position AGAIN. Then you look at him during that interview with Bashir… looking as dumbfounded as hell as to why someone would think a 40 year old man hanging out with boys overnight was inappropriate. I aint gonna lie, MJ was out there….waaaay out there. But I truly don’t believe him to be a sexual deviant.
July 9th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
fallinup says:
@ rangerjohn
The fact that he could spend that much to be so in debt in the first place should show how 20 mil wasn’t shit for him to just up and give away.
So yeah, at the time…I bet 20 mil was a drop in the bucket for someone living in an amusement park with his pet chimp.
This guy owns Beatles catalogs for god sakes. 20 mil wasn’t shit to Jackson.
July 10th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
SagJism says:
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Pool-Boots-Kids-Who-Might-Change-the-Complexion.html
July 10th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
SagJism says:
That link is where rangerjohn probably lives.
July 10th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
SagJism says:
Hmm, Rangerjohn, what do you have to say about Bush/Cheney?
July 11th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Joseph Muzuma says:
Yes YOU are talking about other people how about your self. The bible says Judge not because your will be judged. If God forgive people who are you not to for give. WARCTH what you wish