Who’s Better: Baron Davis or Mike Bibby?
Baron Davis
We argue. You decide…
BARON DAVIS (by Ben York)
When he wants to be, Baron Davis can be an elite player in the NBA. Judging by his trips to India that culminated in his recently found enlightenment, it’s my belief that he wants to be a threat again in ‘09-10.
When he asserts himself, Baron can be downright unguardable. He’s not that far removed from his phenomenal seasons in Golden State where he averaged over 20 points, 7 assists, and 4 rebounds a game. In Los Angeles, he should finally have a healthy squad of teammates and a renewed sense of motivation to make some noise in the West. He also announced publicly that he feels the Clippers are “his” team now and wants to inherit more accountability — something that was not the team-wide sentiment last year.
In regards to Baron’s ability over Mike Bibby, it’s really not a contest. Davis is far superior and has been more consistent over the course of their respective careers in nearly every statistical category despite being on teams with far less talent. Even on his most inconsistent nights (which Baron has), he still puts up more points, gets more assists, more rebounds, draws more fouls, and is a constant threat to catch fire. The same cannot be said for Bibby who is, at best, a streaky shooter and questionable distributor.
Once again, I’ll go back to the analogy I used when we compared Nash and Kidd — if the players switched teams, how much better or worse would that team be? The Clippers, undeniably, would be a worse team with Mike Bibby at the helm with no true leader, scorer, or go-to player. The Hawks, on the other hand, would actually be more dangerous with an explosive player like Baron feeding the ball to Joe Johnson and Josh Smith throughout the game.
If you had to choose which player you’d want to build a team around, would anyone truly take Mike Bibby over Baron Davis? Even if it’s solely based on potential, Davis has to be the clear choice with the possible rewards far outweighing the risks. Bibby might be the more safe choice but this is in large part due to a lesser role that he’d have on the team.
Again, when Baron wants to be, he can be a very skilled leader of men and a key piece to the success of a team. Bibby, however, has always been (and always will be) just an OK point guard.
No hesitation at all – Baron takes this one.
Mike Bibby
MIKE BIBBY (by Austin Burton)
This shouldn’t even be an argument, right?
Baron Davis is clearly more talented than Mike Bibby. He’s stronger, faster, more athletic. He scores more points, dishes more assists, collects more steals. He has two All-Star nods, versus zero for Bibby. And even if Baron (30) isn’t that much younger than Bibby (31), he at least plays like it. Just recently I included Bibby in the group of NBA players who “stopped attacking the rim around the same time they stopped wearing t-shirts under their jerseys.”
And yet here we are, posing this question, with me arguing for Bibby. Why? Because contrary to everything stated above, Bibby is currently better than Baron. How? Because he manages gets more out of that slower, weaker, less-talented body than Baron gets out of his luxury model.
Over the last five seasons, Baron has led his team to the playoffs once; Bibby has done it four times. And this isn’t one of those Tony Parker-type arguments where the point guard in question has Hall of Fame talent around him: In 2005, Bibby anchored a Sacramento team that traded Chris Webber mid-season. In ’06, Bonzi Wells was the Kings’ top postseason scorer. (Not to mention in Sacramento’s heyday, they weren’t truly dangerous until Bibby emerged as a crunch-time killer, taking the big shots C-Webb and Peja shied from.) In Atlanta he joined a young squad lacking experienced leadership, and they’ve only improved since Bibby’s arrival, scaring Boston in ’08 and making the second round in ’09.
Meanwhile, Bibby has quietly established himself as one of the more consistently productive PG’s in the game. Last season he averaged 14.9 points, 5.0 assists, 1.2 steals and only 1.6 turnovers, tying for eighth in the NBA with 167 threes. In the playoffs, Bibby hit 54% from three, 46% from the field and 95% from the line, although his averages dipped to 13 points and four dimes.
As for Baron, he made Terry Fator money while leading a talented Clippers team with big expectations to another Lottery reservation. Moreover, he might have been the League’s worst-shooting point guard. Baron hit 30% from three, and according to 82games.com, 33% on two-point jumpers (worse than Tyrus Thomas and Kenyon Martin) and 49% on “inside shots” (NBA-leader Andre Iguodala made 72%). Contrasting Baron’s reckless jacking, Bibby, with his non-existent vertical and bow-legged gait, simply finds good shots and makes them.
These “Who’s Better?” arguments are meant to judge players at their current skill level, not the past. But in some cases, a man’s track record has to count for something. Baron is often called one of the best PG’s in the world “when he’s on,” but all Bibby has done is outperform him and succeed at almost every turn. Forget the highlight reel: Bibby wins because he achieves consistency and poise at a position that demands it.
After all, what good is all that talent when you’re not getting the most out of it?
Who do you think is better?
Follow Ben York on Twitter: @bjyork
Follow Austin Burton on Twitter: @AustinatDIMEmag
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“Who’s better?” archives
8/21 — Shaquille O’Neal vs. Pau Gasol
8/19 — Andre Iguodala vs. Rudy Gay
8/14 — Ray Allen vs. Michael Redd
8/12 — Steve Nash vs. Jason Kidd
3/3 — David West vs. LaMarcus Aldridge
2/26 — Kevin Durant vs. Danny Granger
2/19 — Paul Millsap vs. David Lee
2/17 — Caron Butler vs. Tayshaun Prince
12/24 — Marcus Camby vs. Andrew Bynum
12/19 — Deron Williams vs. Chauncey Billups
12/17 — Manu Ginobili vs. Tracy McGrady
12/12 — Amare Stoudemire vs. Al Jefferson
12/10 — Dirk Nowitzki vs. Chris Bosh
12/9 — Derrick Rose vs. O.J. Mayo
12/8 — Rasheed Wallace vs. Elton Brand
12/5 — Kevin Martin vs. Vince Carter
12/4 — Brandon Roy vs. Joe Johnson
12/3 — Dwight Howard vs. Yao Ming
12/2 — Paul Pierce vs. Carmelo Anthony
August 25th, 2009 at 9:04 am
Dee says:
When he is not sitting in dress clothes B. Diddy is one of the best playing. Just too bad he can’t stay away from the injury bug.
August 25th, 2009 at 9:09 am
MCW88 says:
The Clippers, undeniably, would be a worse team with Mike Bibby at the helm with no true leader, scorer, or go-to player
lol didnt they just get the Number 1 pick? How can they get any worse?
August 25th, 2009 at 9:16 am
control says:
Good call on the bow-legged gait reference!
BDiddy has flirted with being a top 5 talent in the world before (he isn’t now). Bibby has just been solid. It depends on what you need for your team, most point guard discussions come down to which teammates they have, because they are ’suppose’ to be facilitators.
I’d say Bibby would be better if you surround him with explosive scorers and a very quick SG. Baron would be better with role players so he could shoulder more of the scoring burden.
August 25th, 2009 at 9:34 am
Kobeef says:
Bibby would never do this for his team in a critical playoff game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j01q8A6pqps
This dunk was one of the greatest moments in sports in the past 10 years. It takes a special player to create memories like this.
August 25th, 2009 at 9:40 am
Jayo says:
“When he wants to be, Baron Davis can be an elite player in the NBA.”
“Again, when Baron wants to be, he can be a very skilled leader of men and a key piece to the success of a team.”
Problem is he only “wants” to be great during contract years. I’ll take Bibby. At least he’s consistent & plays hard every night. Baron has/had HOF talent & has been an underachiever most of his career.
August 25th, 2009 at 9:41 am
Amos Leak says:
B-Diddy….even in his pain and hurting thru injuries and everything else..ain’t nothing like that man we like to call Baron Davis. He’s very different then most points in the league. At his size…he really takes players and treat them like boys. Mike is good, but Mike doesn’t play like a grown man in my eyes..there are certain guys..you look at and you say…THAT’S A GROWN MAN..B-DIDDY IS IT!
August 25th, 2009 at 9:41 am
ctkennedy says:
imagine dwade with more range and a better handle u dont have to thats baron davis he just dont care as much as other players he can get wherever he want on the court post up small forwards can guard both guard postion when he want to he can finish in traffic and most important he one of the few players u dont want to play in a best of seven series cause he can dominate his matchup every night
August 25th, 2009 at 9:54 am
AB_40 says:
baron davis. what did bibby do the last playoffs?
August 25th, 2009 at 9:54 am
c-viz says:
B-Diddy, gotta stay healthy though and keep his weight down
August 25th, 2009 at 9:56 am
Ian says:
baron davis the mini antoine walker imo but since bibby has been overrated since that sacto playoff run of 02 i think i give the edge to davis.
August 25th, 2009 at 10:11 am
Dagomar says:
Baron is DWade with more range and a better handle? How about Wade is Baron except a shooting guard and twice as good.
Between the two I think Baron is better, but if I were starting a team I’ll take Bibby. I’d prefer to know what I’ve got. Also, there’s no guarantee that all of Baron’s failings last year were a result of his injury. What if he’s just on a steep decline? Because he was a disaster last year.
August 25th, 2009 at 10:32 am
lifep says:
Bibby ALL DAY…no question
August 25th, 2009 at 10:43 am
Sebastiano says:
Boom Dizzle hands down.
August 25th, 2009 at 10:43 am
@ says:
Pretty good arguments. When I saw the headline, I was ready to say Baron by a mile. But after actually reading it, considering the “right now” criteria and the way that Baron disappeared last season, I think I am going to have to give the slight edge to Bibby.
However, the fact that it’s still a close call just goes to show how much more natural talent, athleticism, and the ever popular “potential” Baron has. “When he want’s to” Baron blows Bibby out of the water. But there is definitely something to be said for consistency and heart.
August 25th, 2009 at 10:49 am
bam blaam says:
funny hearing most people say baron as the guy with one of the worst records of the nba last year. Besides him being CONSTANTLY injured, and i mean every year. The guy is just injury prone as they come, becauuse his fat ass never stays in shape. He had just as much talent around him as bibby, and he’s never in the playoffs. Give me bibby, even the old, unathletic,slow one that’s in the atl. right now.
August 25th, 2009 at 10:54 am
jzsmoove says:
I’m going to go with solid PG over explosive PG (maybe not for too long)at this point in their career. Bibby over Baron today.
August 25th, 2009 at 10:57 am
sh!tfaced says:
From their ability, potential and physical tools, this is Underachiever (Baron) vs Overachiever (Bibby).
Bibby would be the safe choice if you don’t want all the headaches, the hardheadedness, the turnovers and condtioning issues.
But I’d take a healthy and motivated Boom Dizzle over Boy Scout Bibby.
Beards over Baldies.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:00 am
Sam I Am says:
GOOOOOOO BIBBY!!!!!!
August 25th, 2009 at 11:08 am
dukesman2000 says:
That’s an insult to Boom Dizzle
August 25th, 2009 at 11:11 am
JCARR says:
B-Diddy… duhh
August 25th, 2009 at 11:13 am
Amar says:
no one wins with BD or Bibby as your PG . . . especially not their teams.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:18 am
Sanssasin says:
this is a good argument. because i think most people are basing boom off IF he’s healthy. you got to judge by what is on the court EVERY game.
with that in mind, i’m going with bibby.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:48 am
GayforRudy says:
My name is Ben York and I am a pecker wood.
This argument is simple. When Baron is running the court chewing his gum and looking like a nimrod he is good. When he is nursing ANOTHER vulva injury he is worthless.
Mike Bibby doesn’t get hurt. Thus you take Bibby.
Another horrible argument by Ben York. Guy sucks.
PS Where is the fantasy doctor already?
August 25th, 2009 at 11:51 am
Spliff 2 My Lou says:
When you ask straight up who’s better between two players I immediately think who would win in a game of one-on-one. I’d put money on Baron in this scenario.
Who would I rather start a team with? If both are healthy Baron gets the nod again.
Judging off last season and what each player has done with his current team? I’d take Bibby.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:57 am
fan says:
Baron tore up his knees twice. He along w/ us the fans are blessed that he’s still able to perform on that level. He’s never had a winning team around him. I’d be terrified for the east and King James if he played for the Hawks. B-diddy,Crawford,Joey,JSmoove, & Flip- Meet the Warriors on Steriods w/ out a old timer coach like Donnie. Problem would probably be witht the coach. Baron at 60-70% percent is better than most guards in the league. Has Bibby ever had a major injury. That counts for something. Bibby is so bad he killed Chris Thomas carrer from Notre Dame before it started. LOL. If it’s not pick & roll he’s done. He hasn’t been good since his Arizona/Memphis and that playoff run against L.A. where no one could guard the pick and roll. B.Diddy has been crazy since he was in the N.O. Ask the premiere guards in the league what they think about Baron Davis. His only weakness is himself and weight. Aside from that he’s a better talent than A.I./Steve Francis/Tony Parker/Chauncey Billups/Derick Rose/ Deron Williams is the new healthy version of B-Dizzle. Watch your mouth. His game is crazy. He’s the sole reason they beat Dallas. If he’s healthy the Clippers could punish some teams in the West this year. That’s how talented he is. People and the league knows. If a interested B is in the building. Teams have to watch out. A player capable of winning a game by themselves is more than luxury. Could you imagine him,Grant Hill,Penny,T Mac, Hell even Kobe if they never were injured. The league would be something else right now. Steve Francis/MIke Dickerson I could go on & on. Injuries plagues career’s along w/ the competition in the league. Jason Kidd w/o Microfracture. Some players are never the same. Shaq w/ a year in Phoenix. K.Mart teaming up w/ Steve Hess. Magic. Nene bouncing back from injuries. You get my picture right. Marcus Williams breaking his foot is what mostly caused his journey around the league and lastly and most famously Gilbert and Monta Ellis. I leave that alone. Players only know what it was like when those two were healthy. NIGHTMARE.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
Ashlov says:
This a trick question? Boom Dizzle by a long shot. Bibby is a rotting banana on skates.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
fan says:
When is the Wade/Lebron coming. LOL.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Mike in Sac says:
The only problem with Bibby is that he needs a good emotional tone or positive environment. As long as there is an upbeat dynamic to the team Bibby plays at a high level. He can reinforce that, but not create it solely by himself.
This comes from playing with Vlade, Webber, Christie, and Peja in such a dynamic and positive environment in Sac.
Get the right dynamic going and Bibby becomes deadly offensively.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
heavy d says:
Davis clearly has more talent, but as the arguments pointed out that during the last 2 years he hasn’t done much with it. When he’s on, sure, but that doesn’t seem to happen much anymore. Clippers fans better hope that his head is on straight this year because when it isn’t Baron does more than disappear, he takes down the whole team.
Easy win for Bibby going off last season. Toss up predicting the upcoming season. Bibby signed for a big salary reduction in the off season. Yet to see how that affects him. Davis has some reasons to be upbeat this year. His attitude poisoned the team last year causing more damage than his time missed to injuries.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
money says:
BDIDDY ANY DAY! no contest. if the only argument for bibby being better is that he leads his team to the postseason, i’d argue that it’s because he’s playing in the eastern conference. other than that, baron can shoot better, lead a squad with amazing swag, post up opposing players, and is overall a better basketball player.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
BiG ShoT BoB says:
Bibby was great on that sac team one of the top point guards at the time. With that being said I’ll take Boom Dizzle any day of the week over Bibby. His size allows you to put him on shooting guards and post small point guards and mismatches are what win games everytime.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Rizwan says:
I’m taking B Diddy. The argument for Bibby by AB was good, getting the most out of yourself definitely applies. However, I would want someone who can take over a game by more than just jacking 3s. Baron can do that. Kobeef is on the money, that dunk was amazing.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
K Dizzle says:
Too Easy by miles. If Bibby was attackin the rack Baron does, with those ridic hops and vicious finishes, he’d have issues with the landing gears too; we saw this at UCLA and Boom still came back strong. Good arguments by both guys basically in favor of Baron. Not really any arguments in favor of Bibby, dudes basically sayin Baron’s top 5 in the world when he’s healthy and “he’s on”
So right now, Baron and Mike both healthy so that makes Baron the easy choice. Like I said last week, Bibby has the luxury of always playin with better players, whereas Boom ALWAYS been the best player, from Charlotte, to New Orleans, to Oakland, and thanks to Elton Brand, in LA.
August 25th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
Sacto_J says:
Bibby is a natural floor leader who does more than run a pick and roll, he runs the team’s offensive flow with a sweet J, a decent (though slowing) drive, and solid passing. His one failing is his inability to stay in front of other guards on defense. Baron was an explosive scorer who could get to the rim at will (emphasis on was), has a good (though streaky) jump shot, a motor-mouth, and also has his defensive issues. Bibby HAS carried his teams when counted on to do so, and so has Baron. In the last 5 years, how many times has either been to the playoffs? You can’t tell me that it’s been solely because of the players around them. That’s just not enough. Baron can’t keep himself on the floor, while Bibby has played through more injuries than I’m sure he’d care to count. For consistency, leadership, and the over-achieving factor, I take Bibby, each and every time….
August 25th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
the cynic says:
Davis, but not by much. If Baron would fix his broke ass jumper it wouldn’t even be close. Bibby has probably had a better career than Davis though
August 25th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
S-SiN says:
Baron. period
August 25th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
flavur says:
I will be loyal to BDiddy to the end BDIDDY through and through.
August 25th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
Seven Duece says:
That we’re even having this conversation is a scathing indictment on Davis’ concentration and concern. The man is blessed with physical abilities very few have and wastes them by not working on his body. In 4 short (or long depending on the teams point of view), he’s managed to be on 3 different teams, feud with each coach, make the play-offs once, miss huge chunks of time and not make the team consistently better (not even a mere 2 years in a row). Yeah, Golden State did Dallas in that year, but Denver shocked Seattle years ago and they didn’t do squat after it either.
Bibby had a food 3 or 4 year run in Sacramento where his game meshed with the superior talent he was teamed with. Before and after that stretch he’s been marginal at best. Actually, this debate has just depressed me.
August 25th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
gmoney says:
All these “when he’s on” and “when he wants to” tags with davis automatically give the edge to bibby. When you start questioning a player’s work ethic and will to be a valuable contributor to his team, that’s bad news. Yes Boom has more talent and physical ability, but Bibby has been as consistent as gravity. Bibby has added the leadership and stability to the pg the hawks need. Gimme Bibby.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:37 pm
Yucca Man says:
Clips with Davis last year: 19-63
How could they possibly be worse with Bibby?
Seriously, how often do top talents like Davis lead his team to 19 whopping wins? I know he had injury issues, but still … that is disgusting.
August 26th, 2009 at 8:10 am
ctkennedy says:
takin bibby over baron is like takin derrick mason over randy moss bibby is consistent and everythin but baron scares the hell out of u and pro sports is 90percent mental
August 27th, 2009 at 11:34 am
kyle says:
bibby.
for so many different reasons.
sure baron is a great player.. and i remember watching him scortch the heavily favored dallas mavericks in 2007..cause the biggest upset in nba history.. but hes a terrible shooter..statistically..and hes also a bit of a head case.. he got in 2 arguements with his coach 2.. i would never want him 2 lead my team
bibby on the other hand is an incredible shooter.. AND very clutch. in his days with sacramento, with all that ball movement it helped him average about 22 ppg one season.. AS A SHOOTING PG!
he directed the offense and still got his own buckets.. he was probably the mvp of that sacramento team, with the expection of peja(peja was a beast with sacramento, his shot was incredible.. and in a system where every1 could shoot.. and webber commanaded a double team, he really got his shot off)
i would take bibby easily
August 27th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
Mack Brownee says:
“In regards to Baron’s ability over Mike Bibby, it’s really not a contest.”
Ben york has never been more right.