NBA / Aug 12, 2009 / 4:25 pm

Who’s Better: Steve Nash or Jason Kidd?

Nash vs. Kidd

Nash vs. Kidd

We argue. You decide.

STEVE NASH (by Ben York)
He’s lost a step. He can’t play defense. He’s old. He’s overpaid. He’s a system point guard.

Blah…blah…blah…

The so-called debate on whether Steve Nash can still play effective and consistent basketball is ridiculous and, frankly, irresponsible. Last season, in the most tumultuous and difficult year of his 13 year career, Nash put up numbers that almost bested his first MVP season in ’04/05.

’08-09: 15.7 ppg, 9.7 apg, 3.4 tpg, 93.3 FT%, 43.9 3PT%, 50.3 FG%
’04-05: 15.5 ppg, 11.5 apg, 3.3 tpg, 88.7 FT%, 43.1 3PT%, 50.2 FG%

Those are sick numbers, and he did it with much less options to work with, even from his 2nd MVP season (with Amar’e out) in ’05-06. The real question here is right now, who is the more effective player — Kidd or Nash? The answer to that, my friends, is obviously Steve Nash.

The Mavs system, with Jason Kidd at the helm, isn’t PG centric or guard focused; the bulk of their points and creativity on offense comes from the wings and Dirk‘s ability to play inside-out. I mean, for God’s sake, J.J. Barea could run that team just as good as Kidd has, sometimes better. One way to illustrate how much better Steve Nash is than Jason Kidd, at this point in time, is to hypothesize how the Suns and Mavs would be if Kidd and Nash switched teams. Yes, each team plays a different style and has different personnel, but can you honestly say that if the Mavs had Nash they wouldn’t have a legitimate shot at beating the Lakers? On the flip-side, if the Suns had Kidd, they’d be a bit better defensively but they’d lose out on Nash’s ability to take over games on the offensive end of the floor; having Kidd on the Suns certainly wouldn’t lead to any more wins or make the Suns a better team — Nash on the Mavericks makes them better.

There’s no question that Kidd is still a better defender, but at what point do we give Nash a break? He’s had three of the all-time worst defenders of the pick & roll (Dirk, Amar’e, and Shaq) as “help” for his entire career! Of course, this isn’t to say that Nash is a great defender by any means. Rather, there are just so many other facets to his game (leadership, creativity, shooting, encouragement, support, and work ethic) that he should be let off the hook a bit for his defense.

Back to the question at hand — right now, there shouldn’t be any question who is the better player. From a statistical point of view, it’s not even close. Nash beats Kidd in points, assists, FT%, 3PT%, FG%. How about intangibles? Nash is a clear leader of men by example; he’s the first off the bench to high-five and encourage teammates (even in a blowout), consistently deflects credit, and shoulders the blame when things aren’t going well. In simple terms, Nash personifies the true definition of a leader, and backs it up with his game.

Kidd vs. Nash

Kidd vs. Nash

JASON KIDD (by Austin Burton)
If any two players stood a chance of remixing the SportsCenter-bred basketball fan’s mentality, it was Jason Kidd and Steve Nash. Preceded by Maravich and Magic, succeeded by CP and D-Will, Kidd and Nash were the ground-bound magicians with the ball, the ones who drew “Did you see that sh*t he did?” reactions without touching the rim or taking a shot. And nearing the end of their careers, the debate over who’s better is still out there.

When Nash inked a two-year, $22 million extension with the Suns this summer, there was a sense that it was more of a “Thanks for everything” than a “Take us to the promised land” deal. When Kidd re-upped with Dallas for $27M over three, it was no lifetime achievement trophy. Kidd is still expected to deliver the goods; in large part because he’s better at it right now than Nash, the man he once fought for Best Point Guard in the World status.

Admittedly, the contract thing is pure perception. In judging Kidd vs. Nash, the facts take me back to one game in April. On national TV, the Suns went into Dallas needing a win to stay in the playoff picture. The Mavs were also fighting—there were no giveaways in the West at that point—but it clearly meant more to Phoenix. So all Kidd did was rip Nash apart, dropping 19 points and 20 assists (with two turnovers) in three quarters, orchestrating an offense that scored 140 points and effectively ended Phoenix’s season. It was Kidd’s best all-around effort of the year and a near-flawless display of how to play point guard on an NBA court.

In guiding Dallas to the second round of the playoffs, Kidd averaged 9.0 points, 8.7 dimes, 6.2 boards and 2.0 steals in ’08-09. Nash inevitably scored more and put up more assists in a system that dictates greater numbers, but he can’t match the rebounding, steals and just all-around effectiveness Kidd offers. Steve Nash is an offensive basketball player; Jason Kidd is threat across the board. Kidd had three triple-doubles last year, and two other times he recorded double-digit rebounds and assists but fell short on the scoring part. True, Kidd’s defense is suspect at this point, but it’s still better than Nash’s, whether it’s straight-up D or playing the passing lanes. And while Nash has either tabled or dropped in every area of his game, Kidd is actually getting better in at least one facet: Last season, Kidd hit 40.6% of his threes, the best line of his career, and his 41.6% from the field was his best since 1999.

The PG position has changed since the Magic era — from teams coveting pure playmakers to preferring explosive scorers — and then changed back again. In that time, Kidd and Nash have been both the prototypes and the throwbacks. Except for a year or two along the way, Kidd has always been the better player. With little left but the Hall of Fame in their sights now, he’s still got Nash in his rearview mirror.

Who do you think is better?

Follow Ben York on Twitter: @bjyork
Follow Austin Burton on Twitter: @AustinatDIMEmag
Follow DIME on Twitter: @DIMEMag

“Who’s better?” archives
3/3 — David West vs. LaMarcus Aldridge
2/26 — Kevin Durant vs. Danny Granger
2/19 — Paul Millsap vs. David Lee
2/17 — Caron Butler vs. Tayshaun Prince
12/24 — Marcus Camby vs. Andrew Bynum
12/19 — Deron Williams vs. Chauncey Billups
12/17 — Manu Ginobili vs. Tracy McGrady
12/12 — Amare Stoudemire vs. Al Jefferson
12/10 — Dirk Nowitzki vs. Chris Bosh
12/9 — Derrick Rose vs. O.J. Mayo
12/8 — Rasheed Wallace vs. Elton Brand
12/5 — Kevin Martin vs. Vince Carter
12/4 — Brandon Roy vs. Joe Johnson
12/3 — Dwight Howard vs. Yao Ming
12/2 — Paul Pierce vs. Carmelo Anthony

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  • clay

    kidd hands down

  • http://yahoo.com slygerogg

    J Kidd all the way

  • http://twitter.com/PoppiGEE POPPI GEE

    Ahhh ask and you shall recieve.

    Man thanks so much for BRINGING THIS BACK! For real when it’s comes to debating various things with dudes concerning certain players these you argue we decides come in handy from what DIME writers argue to what commentors say. Fa real!

    Although I like Nash (specially in video games) I will have to roll with Kidd. Triple doubles plain and simple. While some will argue it’s easy to get 10, 10 and 10 you just don’t see a lot of it happening.

    I really don’t have nothing bad to say about Nash outside of defense which York covered. Still this sorta a Tomato Tamato thing. You can’t really go wrong with either, it’s just what you would rather.

    For me I would rather Kidd.

  • this is lame

    theres a reason why steve nash is a two time mvp and jason kidd is not

  • http://dimemag.com Ben York

    @ POPPI GEE – Great points. It’s very much tomato/tamato with these guys.

  • Ross

    I’d say Nash, because of the MVPs.
    At least this guy agrees with you on something, Austin:
    http://www.opensports.com/community/user/blog_entry/561/78076f24-ab47-4875-89e9-8db4a3749fb1

  • Ravi

    As a Suns fan who has seen both of them play for years, I go with Nash.

    I still prefer KJ over both though ;)

  • http://nba.com gibson

    To paraphrase ‘Steve Nash is a great offensive basketball player; Jason Kidd is threat across the board.’

    This is why Kidd is the better player

  • LaMont

    they’re both overrated in my opinion, Kidd has had some pretty good finishers to dish off to in up tempo systems but crunch time in playoffs when it’s halfcourt time he is less effective. As far as Nash goes how does a player win MVP in the same year that the team he left goes all the way to the Finals in their first year without him and the team he goes to doesn’t get to the Finals in his first year with him? He’s also had some pretty good finishers as well and you gotta play defense that’s part of the game basketball is not football.

  • TJ

    Nash, hands down. He’s a player that the other team will gameplan to stop, while you can’t say the same for JKidd at this point. Nash is the best player on his team (Don’t try to say Amare is. He’s nice, but isn’t a dominant rebounder and lives off of Nash dimes.) JKidd is maybe the 3rd, probably more likely the 4th best player on his team.

    One last point. People say Phoenix’s system is what gives Nash such great numbers and I’m inclined to agree as far as assists go (you don’t get great shooting numbers due to any system). But don’t forget that Phoenix’s system you want to credit IS Nash. No one else can run it but him.

  • BiG ShoT BoB

    Jason Kidd from the bay all day. Defense wins championships and J-Kidd plays better D. He has a bigger body so he rebounds better and can take a small guard into the post things Nash can’t do. The one thing Nash might be better in is shooting. But that’s not necessarily something you need out your point.

  • Celts Fan

    Historically, JKidd’s the better player, without question. After Magic, Oscar, Stockton, and Zeke, you could make the case Kidd’s right there at #5. Nash had a few amazing years (and, were it not for Timmy and Shaq being right in the heart of their “I will eat your children” dominance of the NBA, Kidd could’ve copped an MVP for his work with the Nets too so the Nash won an MVP, Kidd didn’t talk is flawed. I think Aaron Williams is still sending him royalty checks.)

  • http://n/a Heaven is a Playground

    Do you even have to ask. I live in Victoria BC and I still say J-kidd is better. The numbers don’t lie, and J-kidd is way more clutch than Nash. Nash is a better shooter than kidd but kidd hits shots when it counts.

  • Krunchy kumkwat

    There is no way in hell that Kidd is the better pg. Besides a little bit of d Nash does everything better. Kidd is overrated. If it wasn’t for a dumb ref and tim Duncan in his freaking prime Nash would have a few rings. Not to mention if Nash is black he would have his 3rd MVP trophy. Btw where is kidds MVP trophy? Oh yeah he doesn’t have one because he isn’t as good. I wouldn’t be suprised if the suns exceed all expectations this year and top the mavs. They should have kept Devon Harris maybe then they would be good.

  • BiG ShoT BoB

    Not to mention J-Kidd went took his team to the finals something Nash has never done with better teams.

  • Bron42 aka Had Springs before Slamball

    1) ya nash almost put up numbers similar to his mvp year but that year he didn’t even deserve the MVP so poo poo to that.

    2) Kidd does more since he still rebounds and at least attempts to play D

    3)simply cuz the mavs got better once nash left

    4)nash will always be exciting but never win a ring or even sniff the finals.

    Final: Nash is like a hawaii QB, good in a system which is why he was bitching when porter was there. IN a system where u run up and down and gun, he looks legit. But when it comes playoff time and the game slows down, he can’t stop a 4 year old which is why they don’t win. Kidd does more all around and while he can’t shoot like nash, he still is a more well rounded player.

  • Krunchy kumkwat

    LOL Kidd took his team to the finals in a weak weak east conf just to get spanked by the west

  • http://dimemag.com Ben York

    @BiG ShoT BoB – Kidd took a team to the finals in the East, when it was horrifically worse than the West; even more so than it is today.

  • Aj

    Jason Kidd was robbed of the MVP in his first season with the nets…! That’s the season he came in a VERY close second to Duncan. If he has that hardware this isn’t even a discussion

  • G

    Im gonna go with Kidd as the better player. But it was a really hard decision, and I think when it comes down to it I’d rather have Nash on my team. The one thing I will say is that Nash has more of the ability to just start going nuts and being everywhere at once, scoring running the floor, and even (im scared to post this here) getting steals. I still think Kidd is the better player but I just cant help loving the excitement Nash brings to the court.

  • http://bt.davka.info/ SparkyJay23

    i’ll take the triple double machine all day every day

    over their careers JKidd has always performed – Nash not to the same effect

  • http://twitter.com/PoppiGEE POPPI GEE

    Ayo Bron42 nice comparison of Nash to Hawaii. Most def. the system.

    Gotta holla on my dawgs with that one. Gave Hawaii the spanking of their life in that game. GO Dawgs!

    Honestly too, you have to ask yourself what type of numbers Kidd would have pulled playing on the Suns when Nash got the MVP. Probably be pretty outrageous.

  • LakeShow84

    I’d take Nash just for the simple fact he doesnt get outplayed as much as Kidd does nowadays..

    Kidd looks good until he plays another ELITE PG.. Then he just looks old which is weird.. But watch Nash matchup against CP3 or Dwill.. Its an old school showdown at the okie corrall..

    Both cant stop anyone but Nash gives you the best shot at neutralizing the other teams star guard.. and when i say neutralize i mean keeping up with..

  • F.L.A.S.H.

    kidd got robbed of the mvp in 02, duncan deserved it in 03 tho

  • http://nba.com gibson

    ‘Lakeshow 84′ I couldn’t disagree anymore, watching Nash match up against the modern PGs is painful, they all breeze by him for layup after layup, my nan would do a better job guarding him

  • http://nba.com gibson

    ‘Lakeshow 84′ I couldn’t disagree anymore, watching Nash match up against the modern PGs is painful, they all breeze by him for layup after layup, my nan would do a better job guarding him

  • http://nba.com gibson

    ‘Lakeshow 84′ I couldn’t disagree anymore, watching Nash match up against the modern PGs is painful, they all breeze by him for layup after layup, my nan would do a better job guarding them

  • Eric

    @Heaven is a Playground

    How dare you say Nash is a worse clutch player than Kidd? When the game is on the line, Nash takes the decisive shots. The only guy who is more clutch than Nash is Kobe Bryant.

    And if it counts for anything, Kidd went to the finals to lose, and the east has always been weaker than the west. Besides, PHX always fell to the eventual champions during the Run and Gun Era, so, has Kidd’s team, but how would the latter’s team perform if they were in the west during the playoffs?

    And Nash a system guard? C’mon, Terry Porter’s system didn’t do anything to help Nash and he put almost 10 assists per night before TP was fired, while being very effective in his shots, the real problems were the turnovers, but that was with the entire team.

    And the guy on the article picked only one game to say that Kidd is better than Nash, what about other recent performances? Nash was better than Kidd in most of them, that’s not a valid reason to prove Kidd’s a better player.

  • Kermit The Washington

    I’m sorry…you simply cannot say “blah blah blah” to the fact taht Nash CAN’T PLAY DEFENSE!

  • Pais

    Don’t get carried away people. If you’re thinking rationally then you know that this is REAL close, which is exactly why they’ve been paired up for this debate. It really comes down to preference, both are without doubt among the NBA PG elite.

  • BiG ShoT BoB

    @ Ben…what you can’t say that Nets team wasn’t tight. They could have easily beat most of the teams in the west that year except for the Lakers. But they went 6 games with the Twin Towers

    Kidd
    Kerry Kittles (Good shooter)
    A young Rich Jeff
    A Beast Kenyon Martin
    Mutombo

    bench:
    Arron Williams
    Lucious Harris (Where’s this guy at?)
    Collins Twin
    Donyell Marshall
    Rodney Rodgers

    With Byron Scott coaching.

  • BiG ShoT BoB

    If you look at that roster they actually weren’t that talented on paper but that says something about J-Kidd he put his stamp on that team and made them competitive kinda in the same way Billups transformed the Nuggets this year. If you remember they weren’t going anywhere with Marbury running the show.

  • Guitar Hero

    Come on…Nash is a MUCH better player, no question.
    He’s not only one of the greatest passers ever, but also one of the gratest shooters of all time.
    How many unathletic 6ft PGs have you seen shooting 50% FGs while scoring 15ppg.
    Are you kidding me?

    Steve Nash is one of the greatest PGs EVER, no question.

  • Guitar Hero

    And yeah, Nash can’t defend.
    But wasn’t Magic a horrid defender too?
    Oh, yes he was…

  • lakeshow

    Nash has no defense.

  • BiG ShoT BoB

    Magic a horrid defender? The guy was able to guard all five positions…

  • LakeShow84

    Correction Big Shot Bob..

    He could PLAY all 5 positions.. Guard them?? different story..

    Worthy was the defender..

  • http://n/a Heaven is a Playground

    Magic was a great team defender, not a good individual defender like Jordan, Kobe, and J-kidd. Did I say J-Kidd? oh yes I did. J-kidd had to guard Gary Payton for majority of his life and Nash had to guard some skinny kid from Victoria BC. Get out of here with everyone saying Nash is a better PG. If J-Kidd did not bit*h slap his wife a few times to put her in place well he’s stressing out on how to get his team to the playoffs, than he would copped MVP trophy. J-kidd in his prime with blonde hair was something special to watch. Everyone gives Rex Chapment the credit for hitting the shot of his life in the playoffs but it was Kidd who carried the Suns team to another level where they were able to overachieve.

  • K Dizzle

    LOL dudes will find weak excuses to pump their guys. I`m gonna try to answer the question and stop livin in the past like most of you dudes.
    The question was `Who you want RIGHT NOW` not Who got the mvps or who got to the Finals?
    Before I start tho, AB, I had a good laugh at JKidd shootin a scorchin 41% from the field for the first time in 10 years. That hilarious, when AI gets ripped for shootin 42%

    First off, JKidd`s advantage over Nash RIGHT NOW is that he`s a RELATIVELY better defender and a better rebounder than Nash. Nash`s advantage is that he can get buckets from anywhere and has stupid range on his j. So one better defensively and one better offensively. So your decision gotta be based on what your team needs. Before they both reupped, heads were talkin about either one goin to New York. The argument was that Kidd would bring leadership, while Nash would bring excitement. It`s a win-win and personally, I`d rather Nash cuz he can space the floor better cuz don`t nobody respect Kidd`s j and good shooting covers up mistakes. Kidd`s defense ain`t what it used to be so that argument is losin ground. Neither one of them can slow down CP3, Tony P, DWill, Chauncey, Westbrook, Rose, Rondo, Harris, Nelson, Brooks etc, Difference is Nash will put up 30pts and 10as efficiently to minimize the damage while kidd will do the 9pts, 11as, 7 boards to minimize.It COMPLETELY depends on your team makeup. I`m a Laker fan so I prefer Nash cuz he would be perfect for the triangle.
    I`m tired of readin the stupid ass argument that the Mavs got better after Nash left. Word? It wasn`t even the same team. Comparin the 03-04 team that didn`t have Terry, Harris, Stackhouse, Dampier to the 05 squad which got rid of deadweight Antoine Walker and obviously got better defensively with Terry, Harris, Stack and Damp not to mention the improvements of rookies Howard and Daniels is just stupid. The lineup completely changed with only Dirk and Fin the remaining starters, but it`s because Nash left they got to the Finals? So who`s fault is it that they got beat by Golden State in the first round?
    I understand you need to rip on Nash to build Kidd up and vice versa, but let`s try to stop playin like both these dudes ain`t hall of fame bound….cuz they both are

  • George W Kush Sr

    I’m going to approach this as if they’re both retired.

    Nash only has that 3 point shot over Kidd, sweet as it is.

    Kidd is better overall especially on defense where he has forced steals and instantly created offense. Kidd rebounded better and his size created problems on defense as much as offense where he could back down smaller defenders.

    Nash, as good as he was, played in the shot happy systems of Nelson and D’Antoni. I don’t think the Mavs or Suns would have been any less if Kidd had run the show with rosters like Nowitski, Finley, Antoine Walker, Antawn Jamison, Josh Howard, Marquis Daniels, Ed Najera, Tony Delk – ’04 Mavs Roster, or the Suns with Amare, Matrix, Joe Jeezy, Q.Richardson, later on Boris Diaw and Raja Bell, James Jones, Jim Jackson, Tim Thomas, etc,etc, there were gunners on each squad , man.

    Kidd was better.

  • http://n/a Heaven is a Playground

    We all know both players are hall of fame bound. But, I would still take Kidd over Nash because Kidd showed the mentality of wanting to rip your heart out during the playoffs and Nash didn’t. Ya Nash got a love tap from Horry (spurs and suns playoff match), but he never came back and carried his team, dude choked when it counted the most. Amare was a big piece, but I still believe Kidd would have found a way to win with Shawn, Boris, Bell, and some centre (I don’t remember his name). Seriously Kidd makes plays that seem pretty impossible for a 36-37 year old look easy. Kidd did have an impact on Dirk’s game this year, Dirk was back to his old MVP form. So my vote is Kidd because he can still carry a team with one other solid player(dirk) and the rest of the Mavs players are ok. Can Nask do that with Amare in the West Divison? My predictions is no.

  • douglas copeland

    this line is ridiculous,”Last season, in the most tumultuous and difficult year of his 13 year career, Nash put up numbers that almost bested his first MVP season in ’04/05″.It doesn’t matter how many years this cat bests his MVP season if the years he won the award were bogus.This cats name won’t ever be mentioned in the top 10 of the patheon of great point gaurds. His MVP award got other NBA players discrediting the award in it’s entirety. Shaq,Robert Horry, Chris Weber, Chauncey Billups, Rip Hamilton went on record saying that second MVP he got should’ve have went to Kobe. This cat is one of only 8 players in NBA history to win this award two times in a row..(Tim Duncan,Larry Bird,Wilt Chamberlin,Michael Jordan,Magic Johsnon,Moses Malone, Kareem Abdul Jabar and Bill Russell)and because of Stern allowing the media to vote on this thing this cat is in a class of players that he doesn’t belong.I can name about 5 point gaurds who’ve never won this award that are better than him. The answer to the question is too easy Jason Kidd by far. Dime you shouldn’t even pose this as a question.

  • douglas copeland

    In no particular order players that haven’t won the MVP that are better than him: John Stockton, Jason Kidd, Isiah Thomas, Chauncey Billups, Gary Payton and that’s just off the top of my head.

  • http://dimemag.com Ben York

    @douglas copeland – Name them (5 pg’s who were better than Nash never to win the MVP).

  • -SEIZ-

    Personally I think its a wash. They both cancel each other out. As bad as Nash’s defense is, Kidd’s offence is equally just as bad. Like for real how is your career fg% 40%??

  • douglas copeland

    please refer to blog#40 Ben York

  • douglas copeland

    Seiz it doesn’t matter how bad you shoot if your stopping the guy your gaurding. Kidd gets other cats open shots and he rebounds like no other point gaurd,tripple double king besides Magic. Nash would score 25 points,drop 13 dimes but his dude would give him a cool 25-30 points and he aint getting you no rebounds. J.Kidd was an asset to his team.

  • douglas copeland

    There reason for giving Nash that award twice was because he made his team better,”that’s ridiculous” Shawn Marion was an all-star when Marbury was the suns point guard,Stoudamire was a beast, Joe Johnson is Atlanta’s franchise player,Raja Bell was a first team defensive player for 05-06,2nd team for 07-08 like this cat just had scrubs around him and he could never when a ship,never even made out of the western conference. Nash can’t hold a candle to any of those cats i listed in Blog#41.

  • http://dimemag.com Ben York

    @douglas copeland – That’s fair. Though, I’d argue Nash has had an overall better career than Billups. It really depends on the subjectivity and objectivity of how we define a great pg or a worthy MVP candidate/winner. Opinions are going to vary greatly.

  • douglas copeland

    See Ben that’s that shades of grey discussion “what you define a great PG or worthy MVP”?Well let see I’ve named the other 8 players that have won that award two years in a row blog#40 and his name is the only one that doesn’t fit. When you win that award twice your on the mount rushmore of NBA greats or atleast in that discussion.You see who that list consist of everyone else looks like they belong. I beg to differ with that chauncey billups thing he’s lead his team to the finals twice,one a ship and a finals MVP,took denver from first round obscurity to a title contender.He does everything that Nash can do offensively but more he can actually rebound,post guys up and yes he can defend a top tier point gaurd. It’s a grasping for straws and chasing of the wind trying to validate this cats greatness, even people that I know that still are Nash fans admit they feel ignorant arguing his greatness or his receiving those two MVP awards it was the leagues desperate attempt at trying to put that international face on the league him and Nowitzki. Both of those cats crumbled under playoff pressure and didn’t have the heart to lead there teams.All those guys I gave you in blog#41 had heart they lead there teams to the finals atleast.

  • scotsman

    Its like comparing an apple to an orange, both of whom used to be bananas. They are both PG but they are so different and have played in different systems for most of their careers. Nash has the MVPs and kidd doesnt because he puts up the better offensive numbers, i dont think you can argue with that.

    When they were both at their prime i would have taken Kidd cause i like his style. I think he is the more well rounded player bringing some defense to the game while still distributing the ball just as well as nash. IMO, thats what a PG should do.

  • http://n/a Heaven is a Playground

    Billups and Kidd make systems, not depend on systems. Nash is a good dribbler, has a good free throw shoot, and can do fancy soccer (football in europe) during time outs. But Nash cannot make systems work the same Billups and Kidd can.

  • http://n/a Heaven is a Playground

    I meant to say same way, not “same.”

  • jzsmoove

    I give the slight nod to Nash. They are both great great players and fun to watch. Jason Kidd has that extra oomph across the statboard when he is on the floor. And Nash has that extra ooze of leadership via being the gel that holds the team together or a crunch time big shot. The tiebreaker goes to Nash cuz if both were taking a last second shot, I am expecting Nash to make the shot and I would be surprised if Kidd makes the shot.

  • douglas copeland

    it’s not comparing apples and oranges to me.Kidd has been an elite point gaurd for pretty much his entire career.Can this be said for Nash? Nash had a 4-5 year stint where he was considered elite. J.Kidd has been good for a long time.Nash has MVP’s he didn’t deserve playing with a loaded suns team and giving it to him because he made guys on the team that were good before he came to phoenix.He deserves maybe one of those awards.See just think about how ignorant that looks Nash one that award twice, by all means anyone whose won that award twice(please refer to blog#40)when being compared to somebody who hasn’t won one MVP will always clearly win out in one of these debates. J.Kidd never won this thing and cats are pretty much all saying he’s better all-time than Nash and the people that aren’t saying that are saying it’s a split.

  • Dagomar

    I think there’s a lot of confusion here. Some people are arguing about careers, others about the state of the players right now.

    To me, Kidd had the better career. Nash at his best was definitely the best offensive point guard since Magic, and maybe the best-shooting point in league history. For a few years he was also the best-passing point guard since Stockton and maybe Magic. But Kidd did more on the court (rebounding, defending well), and he was a top point guard for much longer than Nash.

    As for right now, I give the edge to Nash. First of all, he’s younger. Second, Nash is a much better shooter and a better passer, which is what it really comes down to for points. Neither can play great defense, but really which point guard can ever shut down another top-flight point in any given game? There are no Gary Paytons out there anymore and the talent level of the league’s top points on the offensive end is probably the highest it’s ever been. Kidd’s triple doubles are nice but they aren’t Bron triple doubles; usually they’re in the 10/10/10 category. Meanwhile those rebounds are almost always defensive rebounds. Ultimately I guarantee you that almost any GM in the league would take Nash over Kidd right now, and they’d do it gladly.

  • douglas copeland

    “nash a a better passer”LMAO.Dagomar please,look man theres no confussion we’re talking about the best point gaurd period.Kidd is the better point gaurd now and all-time. All the players in the league want to play with Kidd(kobe,lebron,d.howard,d.wade)not Nash, that should tell you something right there, when it gets down to it I’m more prone to go with guys who play in the leagues take on another player over any fan because they know things about these guys we don’t.As far as the obvious I notice you name specific things Nash is better than Kidd in like “shooting”and supposedly passing..still LMAO.But the arguement is simple.Whoever is a better all around player is automatically the best player of the two. Nash can shoot better.Thats one point for nash.Hey I’ll give you Nash can pass better that’s two for Nash.J.Kidd is a better defender,rebounder,leader he’s got two gold medals and he’s lead his team to an NBA finals in 2003 when they lost to the Lakers. That’s three points for Kidd and 2 for Nash and that’s with me giving you the Nash is a better passer thing which you and I know is absurd. Nash has never even lead his team out of the Western conference.Kidd’s tripple doubles are nice but there not bron tripple doubles…hilarious..Dagomar we’re debating kidd over nash Bron has nothing to do with this.Bron is chasing Kidd as far as tripple doubles go and he has a long way to go. How many of those things does Nash have after all that’s who this debate is about.And I strongly disagree with you, I think GM’s would take Kidd easy over Nash right now. How many players have you heard asking publicly to play with Nash. Bron,Kobe,D.Howard,D.Wade these are the leagues elite right now that have said they would love to him him on there team. Why didn’t they say this about Nash? The answers obvious Kidd is better

  • Bron42 aka Had Springs before Slamball

    1)to the people saying kidd made the finals in a weak east team…he made it bad to back years (which is rar no matter how weak the league) meanwhile nash hasn’t even touched a finals and hes played with all stars his whole career. When he first came to the suns he had what, 4 other allstars and couldn’t even get past the second round on a regular basis.

    2)nash is a system QB…kidd has been on the same level on EVERY team hes played for…nash has had about a 4 year stint, only with the suns where hes considered elite.On the mavs he was just an above average guard.

    3) You talk about how kidd can’t shoot, meanwhile it hardly matters since nash doesn’t win big games.

    4) Like i said earlier, his 2 MVPs were a joke…one should of went to shaq, the other should of went to kobe but nash got great white hope points and now people wanna put him in the greatest of all time conversation meanwhile NO ONE on this site can say with a straight face at any point in his career have they thought Steve Nash was the best player in the nba or even dominant.

    5)nash is exciting but he still hasn’t put a team over the top. Likee someone said, he will put up 20 points and 15 boards and then get 30 dropped on him. No to mention led the league in turnovers for pgs a few years back.

    6)Their both good leaders so that point is kinda nullified

    7)Dagomar says neither really plays defense but if the games on the line kidd at least slows people down. guys go right at nash

  • JCarr

    I’ll keep it short—-> Nash

  • james

    j kidd. true point gaurd
    one of my fav. players

  • the cynic

    Jason Kidd, all day, everyday

  • the cynic

    nash dribbles the ball off his knee 3 times a game, what more needs to be said

  • the cynic

    does anyone remember Quiton Ross dominating Nash in a playoff game?

  • K Dizzle

    Good points by both sides so I gotta remix what Bron said:
    post #56

    “Dagomar says neither really plays defense but if the games on the line kidd at least slows people down. guys go right at nash”

    Game on the line, down 1,2 or 3. Who you want with the ball in their hand and who you want takin the last shot?

  • K Dizzle

    @ post 61

    don’t remember that ONE game, but I remember “the Phoenix Suns beating the New Jersey 161-157 in double ot in ’06
    Kidd finished with 38 points, 14 rebounds and 14 assists and 4 turnovers, but he dribbled the ball off his foot with 10 seconds left, costing the Nets a chance to tie.
    Nash had 42 points, 13 assists and 6 rebounds and 3 turnovers.

    @ Dime – in the future, you should post these dudes’ head to head matchup records to add to this

  • barons beard

    Kidd all day, he should have got at least 1 MVP and took a pretty average Nets squad to back-to-back finals, twice more than Nash and a loaded Suns squad.

    Just a shame to see Kidd play out his HOF career in Dallas, on team with a very slim chance of getting him a ring in a system that doesn’t best suit his skills

  • bobby stew

    Didn’t Kidd and Nash play together in Phoenix at one time? Now that’s an ill backcourt!

  • dave

    nash is better

  • richblue11

    J-Kidd!!!

    Although he wasn’t a very good shooter, he makes the shots when it counts especially in the playoffs.

    People also tend to forget that in 03, J-Kidd averaged 19 points per game. He was the top scorer and passer in his team while collecting an average of 7 boards per game!!!

    That’s more responsibility than Nash can handle. In Phoenix, all he had to do was shoot and pass. His burden wasn’t as heavy as J-Kidd was because the Phoenix back then was star-studded. Meanwhile J-Kidd had to defend, rebound, pass and score for his team. He led an average team twice to the finals and took the SPURS in 6 games.

  • http://n/a Heaven is a Playground

    If I were a GM I would take Kidd. Why? because if he was in the finals he would make shit happen, not get hip checked and call it a day like some players I know (nash).

  • K Dizzle

    Yeah, Amare and Diaw bein suspended was Nash’s fault…..great argument

  • Az

    As much as this hurts—–NASH RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT..
    BUT throughout their WHOLE career——KIDD NO QUESTION
    AND ALSO when has an so called MVP…..NOT taken HIS team to the FINALS at least once?—For all you steve nash fans.

  • chester

    nash is just a product of a good system surrounded by athletic freaks like marion and stoudemire and shooters but kidd is the system in most of the team he goes.(not including dallas). kidd almost won mvp if not for DUNCAN. if both players meet in their primes. that’s heck of a fight.and im sure kidd will win the mvp.. i hope peop;le learn to see thing not by the achievements.but in the kind of plays both players do.some times achievements is product of politics…im just sayin’ com’on man.kidd is way more talented if not more spectacular

  • nick

    kidd is the better overall, however you can’t really lose with either pick. but if you had to take either one for the next five years to lead your squad, i’d take nash hands down. once that quickness goes, kidd will be very limited in what he can do since he is not a great shooter. nash on the other hand will still be effective since opposing defences still would have to respect his shooting ability.

  • MBE18

    J-Kidd is a better passer, rebounder and defender. Nash only beats J-Kidd when it comes to shooting, but J-Kidd plays defense, and when he was in his prime was an absolute beast on the defensive end. Nash doesn’t and has never played a lick of defense. Defense is half the game. J-Kidd hands down. It shouldn’t even be a debate. J-Kidd should have beat out Duncan in his first year with the Nets for MVP. The 3 best point guards of the last 25+ years have been Magic, Stockton and J-Kidd.

  • http://deleted rkraicek

    Good question, but Nash has the edge career-wise and right now.

  • Az

    @ MBE18
    i’d throw in GP, head to head match ups… GP out played stock and kidd….Also can’t forget zeke..two chips by beating jordan, bird, and magic in the playoffs

  • sh!tfaced

    Same shit, really. One can’t go wrong with either, like most of the posts here have said. And about the MVP edge, Kidd was “robbed” of an MVP award in one of those 2 years when he led the Nets to 2 straight finals appearances, with all due respect to Tim Duncan…

  • q

    Nash, Steve

  • Rizwan

    Some of these arguments are piss poor. So what if Kidd can get triple doubles? Nash has 2 MVP’s. Kidd isn’t that great at defense that it is highlighted as a comparison between them. CP3 is a good on the ball defender but why does D Will always whup him? Nash is good at the defnsive intanbgibles like drawing charges. Each player has his own strength. The fact that the Mavs, already a playoff team with Nash, got better after Nash left is a joke. Yeah, they went to the finals but their offense went a completely different direction. The Suns, as a fan, were not great before Nash got there and turned to championship contenders, not just a better team. Both players transformed teams and both players are a mark for current pg’s.

    So the majority of the arguments for whose better out of the two are crap. Lebron is said to great but can only be said to be one of the greatest if he wins rings. So career accomplishments are massive in this context as well if they are every where else. So if thats the case, Nash edges it. Two MVP’s to none tell the story. I agree Kidd should have won it in 2002 but then again Nash would have had at least one ring if it wasnt for Tim Duncan. Then this argument wouldnt even surface.

    So blame Tim Duncan!!!!!!!!!

  • MSkittle

    Nash is a great shooter= Nash is better

  • flegman

    they’re both good but past their prime.

  • Big V

    Gotta go with Nash and I’m surprised that Ben York’s argument didn’t bring up the clutch factor. Frankly, Nash is a proven scorer in the clutch whereas Kidd is not.

    Kidd’s the better rebounder and defender, and that’s about it. Nash beats him in every other category. Coupled with his propensity to hit big shots, you gotta go with Nasty.

  • Jase

    J-Kidd every damn day.

  • SWAT

    good call big v. bottom line…down by 3 who do you want taking your teams last shot?

  • ldawg23

    Nash would NEVER, let me repeat NEVER got the 1st MVP if KB24 hadnt nutted on that white girl. The trophy woulda went to him that year. People couldnt/wouldnt vote for him cause his image was now tarnished an Lord Stern wouldnt have the leagues BEST PLAYER TROPHY possibly going to a rapists…The reason Nash got the 2nd MVP was cause he put up better numbers and everyone’s thinking was, HELL HE WON LAST YEAR, HE’S PLAYING BETTER THIS YEAR, GOTTA GIVE IT TO HIM…Many voters even came out and said that..They didnt vote he was the MVP, they voted he was better than last year, thus should get the trophy again…Nash still send flowers to the chick in CO

  • George W Kush Sr

    Chris Mullen was a better shooter than Mike Jordan.
    Reggie Miller was a better shooter than Mike.
    Both of them don’t hold a lick to Mike.

    Kidd took Jersey to the Finals twice, Nash never made it out of the West.
    Kidd does hit shots in the clutch, but Nash does have a better shot.
    Kidd is great on offense and defense, Nash is only good on offense.

    And the most important fact is that Nash gets his ass handed to him by other point guards ON THE REGULAR.
    Whenever Chis Paul, D.Will, Parker, Baron, Westbrook, Rondo, D.Rose, D.Harris, Billups, etc, etc, come in to town they have a fucking field day when Nash is guarding them. So what’s really the point of having a pg who has 18pts and 10 assists when the opposing pg has 30pts and 15 assists? And it’s been like that his whole career.

    Kidd all day everyday, it’s really not that close.

  • BiG ShoT BoB

    A point guard should be passing for the last shot deciding who the best person is to take it…not taking it himself.

  • SWAT

    ok so big shot, you are saying tht when stockton pulled up and knocked my rockets out of the playoffs tht bcuz hes a point he should hv passed it…we are not talking about avery johnson here with his suspect jumper-i was asking tht with the game on the line who do you want shooting the rock?

  • http://n/a Heaven is a Playground

    @87, that is a weak call on saying PGs need to pass during clutch moments. Tell that Stockton, Zeke, and Deron etc. Big time players make big time plays. And Nash doesn’t have it. Nash doesn’t have that arrogance to say “I’m going to drill a MVP jumpshot in your face to ice the game.”

  • SWAT

    @ HEAVEN maybe u r watching some different games…nash is clutch about 95% of the time. the reason i say 95 is when he dribbled the ball of his leg a couple of times in the playoffs. but dude is money with the late 3…ask the spurs (yes even tho they did still lose) but still yall knocking nash for his mvp hardware is crazy. dude has led the league in assts for 3 yrs, cats tht palyed with him (at least in PHX) all had career highs, and i think hes one of only 4 cats tht shot 50% from the field 40% from the 3 and 90% from the line.

  • Ian

    ravi
    id go with nash also but kj is third in this race.
    isnt the question whos better right now?? wasnt kidds avantage over nash his defense which isnt great now? so the answer is nash easy.
    alltime 2mvps say it all.

    krunchy
    you said that if it wasnt for duncan nash would have a ring by now. well same thing can said about kidd remember when timmeh broke out the almost quadruple double on the nets.

    AJ
    lol kidd got robbed of the mvp??? hahahahaha
    please i always love when some player gets traded and those the same shit he always did and all of the sudden hes the mvp??? dude if duncan gets traded now to the hawks or some shit and posts his usual 20 and 10 numbers he gets the mvp love it always happens.
    kidd wasnt even first team allnba

  • Ian

    whoever said kidd is more clutch than nash because he makes his shots when they count needs to be banned from the site.

    eric give me a nash shot for the win everyday over a kobe shot you need to check kobes percentages in game winning situations.

    big shot
    yeah magics defense sucked its like marion who can guard everyone but gets torched by fast pgs and strong pfs. magic could play all positions but he couldnt guard them.

    heaven you know they lost that game in overtime right. its like jordans 60plus vs boston he lost the game so shit doesnt matter like bron game winner vs orlando.

    douglas
    chauncey doesnt rank better than nash in an alltime list.
    how cant leave nash out of the top ten alltime pgs list. but i do agree nash isnt anywhere near the players that have won the award back to back.

  • Ian

    dagomar lol i actually rank the triple doubles like u do
    cheap ones ala kidd or amazing ones ala big o
    give me 18pts 11assists 3boards shooting lights out over
    10 10 10 everyday and working your ass off for those 10pts but i guess its a matter of what you like cuz if my pg cant score f u i dont want u.

    can we pleaseeeee leave out the oh kidd made the finals??? those years me , doug , lakeshow , bron and doc coulda made the finals. besides didnt kidd lose to the spurs and lakers?? to what team does nash usually lose to the spurs also. just bad luck that they are in the same conference.

    george post86
    that is one dumb argument man sorry but i have to say it
    longley is a better rebounder than kobe also why dont u throw that one in there? look at the stuff u brought it can go either way. well u say shooting doesnt matter because of those examples ok lets use defense kidds edge over nash hum bowen in his prime was a better defender than kobe. dumb right?

  • johnsacrimoni

    @67 The Suns had Kidd, Nash and KJ all at one time. Yeah, except for the Marbury years (and to be fair, he did play pretty well in Phoenix) The Suns have been pretty well covered at PG since they drafted KJ 22 years ago. As for the debate, while I’m a big fan of Nash’s game and appreciate how great a shooter he is, I gotta go with Kidd. Even at his age, if I had to have a point guard for the upcoming season only, I would take D-Will first and Kidd second.

  • MDE

    Let’s first start off by saying that Kidd did get robbed of the MVP his first year with the Nets and he was First Team All NBA that year and 4 other years as well (1 year 2nd Team). It isn’t about the numbers he put up (which were excellent MVP type numbers) it was about the simple fact that he took a perennial bottom feeding Nets team to the Finals in his first year. While nobody can deny that Tim Duncan is very good and was very good that year, he had already been playing on a championship caliber team that was well established. Not to mention, San Antonio didn’t even make it to the finals that year. In that given year, Kidd was the Most Valuable Player to his team’s success (you can also make an argument that he could’ve been the MVP his second year when he took the Nets to the finals again and averaged 18.7 pts- highest of his career).

    As for Kidd vs. Nash, while both very good, I give the edge to Kidd. You can breakdown stats (Nash is a better shooter and scorer and Kidd is a better rebounder and defensive player. Equal passers.) but what separates them are the intangibles. Kidd’s will and vision have always been his best attributes and the reason why every player wants to play with him. Also, lets not forget that Nash was Kidd’s back-up at the beginning of their careers and Nash has never taken a team to the finals.

  • cynic

    I will never understand HOW did Nash win MVP with only 15ppg?!?

  • Scott

    When they were both at their best I would definitely go with J-Kidd. But anyone who thinks Kidd’s perimeter defence is still an asset is crazy. Aside from on the block Kidd’s D is not that much better than Nash’s anymore and it certainly is not a difference maker like it used to be.

    For the 09/10 season I’d take Kid Canada … no question

  • NC

    Of all time likely Kidd by a small margin. Today I’d go with Nash in a NY minute.

  • http://n/a Heaven is a Playground

    You watch Nash’s shot selection during crunch time? Leaning back on one leg from three point land and hoping the shot goes in. I understand he works on that shot, but damn do a basic jumpshot in crucial moments, please. I’ve watched a lot of Nash’s games as while as Kidds and too me it is clear J-Kidd is better in clutch situation. With 15 seconds to go in the game Kidd would get a rebound, steal, assist, and made shot. Nash can make some big shots in the forth quarter, but with the game online, you can’t depend on him to bail your team out. This year Kidd will be right there battling it out with the best PGs, obviously Kidd is not the same player he use to be, but guards will still have fits trying to stop him for changing the pace of the game. He still has that third eye somewhere on his head. I gave Nash his props but he’s just mentor now. Suns gave some money to stay so he can mentor some of young guys coming through the Suns organization.

  • http://dimemag.com Ben York

    @NC – pun intended? ;)

  • K Dizzle

    @ Ian – hell must be freezin over cuz I agree with all your posts(91-93) …except the kobe not bein clutch thing

    @ johnsacrimoni – you’d take Kidd over Rondo, Westbrook, Rose or CP3?

    @ Heaven – Kidd is more clutch than Nash? You A) haven’t seen nearly enough games or B) haven’t seen nearly enough games

  • http://n/a Heaven is a Playground

    k dizzle, I watched more than enough to know what steve nash’s weakness is and that is clutch play. Anyway, here is a 35 year old Kidd giving the 34 year old Nash the business. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEuevmhCkvw&NR=1

  • NC

    @Ben York No doubt no doubt … hahaha!

  • christopher

    steve nash yea baby! hes my favorite b-ball player

  • doc

    Are yall kidding?Nash cant hold Kidds dick.

  • doc

    @K-dizz-Tell Nash to get to a chip before u talk that clutch shit.Kidd took worse teams than Nash had twice.

  • dgatorr

    well, i would say JKidd has many more sides to his game than Nash has ever had. but its funny this story breaks at the same time “Deadspin”, has the article running, telling of the NBA score keepers “cooking” the books on stats, to keep fan interests up.
    well now, imagine that ?

  • appletice

    Jason Kidd this year league leader in clutch steals
    also clutch .500 3pt shooter

  • Cynthia

    You can’t give Steve Nash a “break” because he doesn’t play D just because he scores a lot. Not playing D is Phoenix downfall. Their “leader” ought to be doing EVERYTHING possible for his team to win INCLUDING playing D. Nash has NEVER done that….not in Phoenix or Dallas. And the arguement that if Nash were in Dallas they would “have a legitimate shot at beating the Lakers” is just plain WRONG and clearly the Nash supporter is NOT looking at history. The MAVS and specifically Dirk Nowitzki have played their best basketball WITHOUT Steve Nash. They went to the finals WITHOUT Nash. They won 67 games WITHOUT Nash. And DIRK was the MVP WITHOUT Nash. A great point guard MAKES THE PLAYERS AROUND HIM BETTER. Dirk Nowtizki, with Jason Kidd at the helm had the BEST SEASON of his career last season. He had BIGGER NUMBERS than he had his MVP season. Jason Terry won 6TH MAN OF THE YEAR last season. These guys had help. And that help came in the form of one of the GREATEST POINT GUARDS TO EVER PLAY THE GAME…JASON KIDD.

  • Cynthia

    One other thing…..Nash was part of the downfall of his own team last season. At the beginning of the season Nash “the leader” was ALL for the coaching change. Couldn’t wait to get a coach who thought DEFENSE was the way you win titles. But somewhere during the season, playing D just wasn’t fun anymore. I’m guessing it wasn’t fun because no one (with the exception of Raja Bell plays D on that team….and we all know what they did with Bell, now don’t we?). Nash was one of the vocal leaders who wanted to go back to run and gun. Get rid of the coach. So with all of the players bitching including their fearless leader Nash, Steve Kerr (THE WORST GM in the league imop) bowed to the wishes of the Nash and others and fires the coach. And what happens then? The Suns don’t even make the playoffs. And in the game in Dallas that Phoenix HAD to win, no one…including their “leader” Steve Nash seemed to give a damn. And even if Nash would have had the expertise to actually play D against J-Kidd, would he have had the will??? According to his actions ALL SEASON long the answer is a DEFINITE NO.

  • lb#33

    KIDD! 3rd eye unblind, bigger, stronger, walking triple double.

  • MavsFan

    Wow.. You gotta be kidding me? Jason Kidd? He is the most overrated player of all time. First off, his shooting is fucking awful, just plain terrible. Career 40%, he can’t score and is an offensive liability. His passes are overrated too, Steve Nash sets up layups, Jason Kidd throws passes to Vince Carter. Nash makes plays, Kidd lets someone else do it. Steve Nash is absolutely the best pick and roll player of all time, have you seen the way he reads plays? Responds to traps, to people playing under/over the pick? He kills. No doubt in my mind he would have won a few titles, had joe johnson not been injured, amare not been injured and had Tim Donaghy not been rigging the games. As for defense Nash is underrated. He is one of the best in the game at drawing charges and people need to start pointing this out more. Kidd is really getting slow and gets killed by elite pgs now. His defense is not what it used to be, and frankly its all he has got. This is easy. Nash hands down.

  • K Dizzle

    @ Cynthia – all that and you seem to forget that J Kidd is a 40% career shooter and maybe you missed it, but there was a dude named Amare who missed a chunk of the season, maybe that might help you understand why Phoenix missed the playoffs. Maybe you missed the “improvements” the Mavs made when Nash left so I’ll try to be brief:
    1) Avery takes over for Nelson – defense becomes priority
    2) Josh Howard and Marquis Daniels come into their 2nd years and are much improved
    3) Mavs get rid of Walker(who don’t even pretend to play defense) and Jamison(who you don’t need cuz you already got Dirk at the 4)
    4)Mavs pick up Harris, Terry and Dampier – defense is waaaay better
    Since everybody wanna talk about how much better the Mavs were without Nash and how they rolled to the Finals, please explain what happened in the first round against Golden State.
    And numbers and mvps have nothing to do with each other. Dirk put up better numbers with JKidd than he did in his mvp year. Could that maybe just mean he was a better player hittin his prime in his late 20s and understandin how to get his efficiently? Who you think would draw more attention from the opposition? AN open Nash or an open JKidd? Who leads the league in charges drawn year after year…but he don’t play no defense? Numbers don’t really mean nuthin when it comes to the mvp award cuz Nash’s best personal numbers season was the year he didn’t win the mvp.

    @ Doc
    I love that argument, but the question wasn’t “WHo was the best point guard back damn near TEN YEARS AGO or who got to the Finals twice back in 2001-02? It’s who you think is better now?
    Kidd supporters keep rollin back damn near 6-8 years to make their point. In a poll of nba players and execs, Nash was voted the best shooter IN THE LEAGUE…right now. Only player in history to do the 50-40-90 3 straight seasons. It’s pretty obvious that Kidd and Nash have they troubles slowin down the CP3s, the Parkers, Roses and DWills of the league, but nobody can. I vote Nash cuz at least he can give the buckets back…he ain’t shootin 40%

  • Lebron

    Steve Nash hands down.

    This isn’t even close – 2 time MVP – career stats – better FG %, better FT %, Better 3P %. Took a 29 win team to 62 wins. Makes every player on his team an allstar. JKIDD is good, Nash is great plain and simple.

    Nash when he retires will go down as top 3 all time, period. JKIDD will most likely fall in the tap 7 or so.

    This debate should be about if Nash is the 2nd greatest point guard of all time behind Magic. If Nash or Stockton, not Nash or JKIDD.

  • chief youngblood

    Who really cares

  • /.,';/.,';';/........................ go jazz

    Hmmm good question NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • KH

    The fact that this is even a “debate” is embarrassing. If we’re talking about their career overall or this past decade…we have a good argument. But it seems like we’re talking about recent years and the present. CLEARLY…Kidd is a shell of his former self. Nash has essentially been just as good as he was in his MVP years minus the first half of last year…when he was still much better than what J-Kidd is now. The one thing Kidd had a big advantage on was his defense…which is very mediocre now…probably better than Nash’s still, but they’re both getting burned by quicker guards like Paul, Rondo and Williams…but I mean…who isn’t? And Nash isn’t even the liability on D that everyone makes him out to be. He’s no stopper but he’s a smart help defender and excellent at drawing charges.

    I seriously can’t believe this Austin guy is trying to make a case for Dallas version of Kidd as being better than Nash. Also someone commented about Nash in a reply saying something along the lines of “shooting isn’t what you necessarily need out of your PG”…um erroneous. Rebounding isn’t something you necessarily need out of your PG…it’s a nice bonus but shooting is infinitely more important for a guard.

    The entire case Austin makes for Kidd is weak…the perception of their contract…really? If you polled GMs, coaches, and players on who they would rather have right now…it would be nearly unanimous in Nash’s favor. If forced to admit the truth…most of the people involved in Dallas’s organization would admit it. And then he brings up one game and then goes on to praise Kidd’s “all around effectiveness” and being a “threat across the board”…please. Again, Kidd is no longer the Jason Kidd of earlier this decade. Nash is still very good and a top 5 PG in the league. Kidd might not even be top 10 anymore. Don’t get me wrong…he’s still a solid PG…but come on…seriously? His last points talk about Nash’s numbers dropping off and one facet of Kidd’s going up. He conveniently ignores that Nash’s numbers shot up in the 2nd half of the season and commends Kidd for shooting 41.6% from the field (which is very below average) and 40 percent from downtown…which is respectable but if you actually watched the games…it’s because teams WANTED Kidd to take those shots. They left him wide open so they could focus on guarding ACTUAL offensive threats on the Mavs team. So basically being left wide open to take jumpers he shot 40 percent on 3s and still a pretty mediocre 41.6 overall.

    Nash is one of the best shooters in the game…superior 3pt shooting, FG% and FT%. Kidd lags FAR behind in this aspect. And in the most important aspect of being a PG…more assists. More assists in any way you want to look at it…per game average, per 36 minutes, total assists.

    You can also look at Hollinger’s PER…and while this isn’t a tell all kind of thing…still this also points to Nash being superior right now. Nash finished 6th amongst PGs…Kidd finished a distant, distant 16th. The legendary Eddie House didn’t finish too far behind Kidd in this regard. Kidd’s game has been in decline since his last couple years with the Nets. He’s just been getting by on reputation now. He had no business starting on the Redeem Team at the Beijing Olympics but only did so because of his career accomplishments.

    Nash is better than Kidd RIGHT NOW…plain and simple. If you’re a rational person, you can clearly see Nash is the superior player. We’re talking about 2009 and not 2002 or 2003.

    And I can’t wait for this year to play out to further prove that Nash > Kidd.

    For real…this reply was only so long because it’s so LUDICROUS that someone is trying to make a case for Kidd as better right now…and that there are a bunch of replies that agree with him. Completely and utterly ridiculous.

  • KH

    I’d also like to add that the MVPs Nash won were legit…I’m not gonna bother going into explaining that but I will say that while yeah a case definitely could have been made for others as the MVP that year…Nash definitely also had a strong case so really…I have no problems with those 2 MVPs. You want to talk about a media bias? I feel like voters didn’t give him a 3rd MVP in the 07-08 season because they didn’t want his name amongst the greatest players. And while obviously Nash isn’t nearly as good as those players…that’s irrelevant…they played in different eras and circumstances. Him winning a 3rd MVP wouldn’t justify him being as good. And the MVP is a regular season award…so it doesn’t mean much that he hasn’t gone to a Finals. If you want to talk about an MVP’s failure in the playoffs, let’s criticize Dirk instead. And Nash has gotten to the Western Conf. Finals a couple of times…sorry if in the year he had his best shot he lost to the greatest PF of all time in Tim Duncan (someone Kidd lost to as well) and it didn’t help that Amare and Diaw were suspended for a game. Really don’t think that can be held against Nash in this argument as Kidd came out of a MUCH weaker Eastern Conference.

  • KH

    and the last thing i have to say is this austin character contradicts himself…

    http://dimemag.com/2008/09/the-15-best-players-in-the-nba/

  • Real

    Nash by a landslide

  • Ninja

    Um…

    People trashing one or the other is a bit silly.

    Both are great Point Guards. Going by thier career Kidd obviously did more.

    Go watch the 2002 playoffs and tell me he wasn’t clutch.Especially the Pacers series. He was up against one of the best clutch shooters of all time and played an hour, after hurting a hamstring and taking some hard hits.

    He didn’t give up, or even show a sign of weakness. Instead he steals the ball from a 6’11 forward, and dives to grab it, before being landed on by the forward. This was in the second overtime iirc.

    That’s huge for anybody, let alone a point guard that was playing on a team who’s second/third best player was a rookie. He scored 30 points, 9 assist, and I think 9 rebounds that game.

    Then he went to the finals, and despite getting swept, he himself put up a good fight. No point guard is going to be able to stop a dominate center. At the best they can try to outscore him. They didn’t have anybody capable of stopping shaq. Adding Kobe and a great team of lakers and you can’t expect Kidd, a rookie, and K-Mart to stop them.

    Nash is a great player, but you have to remember his team is built more or less around making shots. Not ANY point guard could run it, but I’m sure Kidd could handle it rather well.

    As others have said, Nash runs a good offense well, Kidd makes a good offense and throws in a few rebounds and steals a game.

  • ryan

    Dude Nash by far.. he has 2 mvps.. Kidd cant shoot for shit. Nash all the way baby

  • jayson

    none of you understand basketball.. look i have been a suns season ticket holder since 1996.. I have seen the kidd era and the nash era.. Nash is better by far..Dont get me wrong kidd was good.. now you guys cant believe Nash won back 2 back mvps but if you actually watch every suns game you will find out why in 2003- 2004 the suns were awful.. we had talent but couldnt close.. nash turned us into a 62 win team.. thats mvp.. so nash over kidd

  • cj

    Jason Kidd is the better point guard than Steve Nash because he’s 2nd all time in assists,6th all time in steals and 2nd all time in triple doubles. He’s led his team to the playoffs for 13 straight years(Nash didn’t make it last year)and has more 3′s in his career.Also has more years leading assists in nba, more allstars, defensive teams, 2 gold medals.And two finals appearances. Even though he was in a weak conference, the Nets went from almost last in eastern conference to eastern conference champions, by just one man.He definitley should have won the MVP for that instead of Duncan.And finally, even with him being 36 turning 37 next month, he shows no sign of slowing down. He’s 5th in assists this year and 2nd in rebounds among guards. So KIDD IS BETTER THAN NASH ALL TIME!!!!!!!

  • cj

    Jason Kidd is the better point guard than Steve Nash because he’s 2nd all time in assists,6th all time in steals and 2nd all time in triple doubles. He’s led his team to the playoffs for 13 straight years(Nash didn’t make it last year)and has more 3′s in his career.Also has more years leading assists in nba, more allstars, defensive teams, 2 gold medals.And two finals appearances. Even though he was in a weak conference, the Nets went from almost last in eastern conference to eastern conference champions, by just one man.He definitley should have won the MVP for that instead of Duncan.And finally, even with him being 36 turning 37 next month, he shows no sign of slowing down. He’s 5th in assists this year and 2nd in rebounds among guards. So KIDD IS BETTER THAN NASH ALL TIME!!!!!!!

  • temps

    nash cause hes nash

  • erik

    kidd sucks…..media swings on his nuts for no reason…if nowinski scores 30 and kidd scores 4, the headlines will read ‘dirk and kidd combine for 34′…its sickening…..out of 8 assists (2 per quarter) half will be a chest pass to a waiting shooter…if he makes the shotr, kidd gets the assist wow!!!! shit you bring the ball up 50 times a game, you should have assists when you cant shoot for shit, yeah get it in someone elses hands. most of his boards are from the long bounces off the rim from the brick he puts up.

  • Viel Mervic

    No brainer. It’s Jason Kidd, plain and simple. Nash got two MVP awards because he was damn good for THAT 2 SEASONS ONLY, while Kidd was the best point guard for a decade. Yes, Nash shoots way way better than Kidd, and probably passes/dishes a lot better than Kidd NOWADAYS, but points and assists aren’t the only category in the playbook. What about steals? Rebounds? and OMG, TRIPLE DOUBLE?! Kidd is hands down the better point guard. 2nd all-time in Assists, 2nd all-time in Triple Double, 2nd all-time in Triple-Doubles in Playoffs, 4th all-time in Steals, 5-time Assists Leader, 5-time All-NBA First Team, 9-time All-Star. You say Nash won two back-to-back MVPs, ok, fine. That probably worths a lot of points. And Kidd hasn’t got one (thanks to the blind NBA panelists for choosing Tim Duncan over him in the 2002 season). Well, has Nash ever lead his team to the finals TWICE, BACK-TO-BACK? If you’re asking about who’s better, then that means the guy should be better ALL AROUND, which incidentally, JASON KIDD is.