Defining Paul Pierce’s place in Celtics’ history
During last night’s Heat/Celtics game, the Miami broadcast posed a viewer poll asking who is the greatest Celtic of all-time. The options: Bill Russell, Jon Havlicek, Larry Bird and Paul Pierce.
Yes, Paul Pierce.
At first glance, a lot of people are going to say that’s crazy for Pierce to even be in the discussion. Automatic reverence for players you grew up on and for players who have reached tall-tale status in the game will take care of that.
But consider that Pierce is third all-time on Boston’s career scoring list behind Hondo and Bird, and second in points per game behind Bird. Consider that he’s first (by a landslide) in three-pointers made, second in free throws made, second in steals, fourth in blocks, ninth in rebounds (as a small forward/shooting guard), and seventh in assists. He “only” has one championship ring and no League MVP’s, but Pierce is all over the record book of the most storied franchise in the NBA. He deserves to be in the discussion.
Where does Paul Pierce rank among the greatest Celtics of all-time?
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November 30th, 2009 at 11:04 am
Blue says:
Right behind Antoine Walker!
November 30th, 2009 at 11:07 am
Celtics10 says:
Behind russell an Bird they got the hardware to back up the stats but he def 3rd
November 30th, 2009 at 11:11 am
Shakers says:
As far as franchise importance goes, Pierce is behind Russell, Bird, Havlicek, Cousy, and Cowens. Nothing wrong with that.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:25 am
Colton says:
im with post 2 … he doesnt get the credit he deserves.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:27 am
Michorizo says:
The other guys had better teams than Pierce, therefore they were in contention for the title repeatedly…Pierce is the best player in this group. Greatest? Russell then Bird.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:29 am
ERIC says:
3rd? you must be kidding.
He’s probably top 10 celtics all-time. But lets not get carried away. Definitely not top 5.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:30 am
ERIC says:
Bird, Russell, Cousy, Hondo, Cowens
November 30th, 2009 at 11:34 am
Kermit The Washington says:
He’s the best player in the modern-day Celtics era. That is all, nothing else to see here…move along, people, move along…
November 30th, 2009 at 11:39 am
control says:
PP should probably go down as one of the most overrated players of all time. The guy is decent I guess, but when he was THE MAN on the team, the Celts were one of the, if not THE worst team in the league. There are a lot of guys who have had HORRIBLE teams, and still managed to carry them to the play offs, but Pdouble failed year after year in that task.
Really, what makes him such a great basketball player? He has a really solid step back mid range jumper, other than that…dunno. Not much.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:43 am
control says:
BTW, wasn’t PP playing during that record setting 21 game losing streak or whatever it was? How many “stars” in the league wouldn’t be able to win at least ONE game out of 21 by themselves? Just one? Even second tier stars like Chris Bosh, Pau Gasol, etc can carry their team for ONE game. Hell, even a guy like Kevin Martin has won games by himself.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:45 am
whatarewedoing? says:
“Men lie women lie, but numbers don’t”. If those stats are accurate, then it sounds to me like he def belongs in top 5, prob top 3 as stated. @9, u contradict yourself in your statement. If his jumper is “really” solid, then that’s better than 80 percent of the league’s players, already putting him at another level. Just thought i’d bring that out. I don’t like “the truth” much, but he is def a killer, and he gives it to Lebron every time they play. Like i said, check the stats.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:48 am
jace says:
top 5? definitely.. best? no. bill russell. then bird. who are the others? open for discussion
November 30th, 2009 at 11:54 am
Diggity Dave says:
He deserves top 10, but he’s definitely not top 5. Although tolerating Antoine Walker and his chucking for so many years should get him the sympathy vote for Most Patient Celtic.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:55 am
control says:
whatarewedoing?
Other guys who have a really solid jumper: Jason Kapono, Mike Miller, Matt Boner, Donyell Marshall, Raja Bell, JJ Redick, etc.
I never contradicted myself, having a solid jump shot doesn’t automatically put you at another level. You also can’t just “check the stats” because then Zach Randolph might look like a worth while guy to have on your team.
We ain’t talking about being better than 80% of the league, we are talking about being a top tier “star”…
November 30th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
erik says:
control is absolutely right on the zach randolph stats theory. This new celtic era has only been good for 2 years, and Pierce has been on the team all those bad years. He does not deserve to be mentioned in top 5. Unless its top 5 faking like he has a broken leg against the lakers . paul pierce = wack
November 30th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
cdubb says:
Im going with posts no 7 and 8. He´s mos def a top 10 player on the Celts All-time greats, but there is no way he deserves to be in this kind of discussion. so slow ya roll, DIME
November 30th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Soopa says:
Bird, Russell, Cousy, Hondo, Cowens then Pierce. McHale is somewhere near this group as well, but he wasnt a go-to guy, so he doesnt crack it.
But its so tough to compare players from different eras. Pace of game, more teams with less talent per player vs less teams with stacked rosters, 3 point line vs no 3 point line etc etc. Physically the league is on a whole other level now then it was in the pre-70s.
But as the face of the Celtics for the last decade, he has to rank high on the list. In Bill Simmons book he has a very fitting segment about Pierce and his legacy.
And lets be honest, not even a Bird in his prime would carry those ’04-’06 teams anywhere near the finals.
And fyi Pierce was out for that 2-22 stretch.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
ilovehaters says:
Anyone who thinks PP is overated has no right to be in this discussion. He is absolutely one of the top 5 greatest Celtics of all time. He doesn’t get the respect he deserves because is game is “boring.” He won’t out-jump you, and he won’t out-run you, but his midrange game is unstoppable and he gets to the rim at will. He has been a scorer his entire career, and over the past few years he has become a great defender.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
JRav says:
Russel and Hondo and Bird are the top 3, then probably Dave Cowens and then i would put Pierce over Cousy
November 30th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
ab_40 says:
7th I don’t know behind who but I see him as no.7
November 30th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
karizmatic says:
He deserves to be in the conversation, but he’d never be number one on that list.
guys like:
Russell
Bird
Mchale
Havlicek
Cousy
Parish
All probably rank ahead of him.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Chicagorilla says:
LMAAO@ PP being the greatest Celt.
I thought this was some sort of joke. I actually wrote in my journal, “Ha, ha, I read a Funny Joke today on DIME about Paul Pierce being the greatest Celtic ever”, then I read this BS. At least you guys are trying to be objective and write from Paul Pierce’s mother point of view. Cause she is the only who could believe he is that great.
@Control,
You said it all. I don’t even feel the need to argue against it. You’ve pretty much shut it down by yourself.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
netstar says:
he is a good celtic, but not deserving of this discussion. you can say this once he puts the franchise on his back and wills them to a chip. he didnt do anything until he got the big three, and he is only up there in the rankings because he has played there so long. put another consistent guard/forward in his spot, and theyll do the same. he is a star, but not a superstar
November 30th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Guitar Hero says:
Definitely top 10.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
Soopa says:
@ netstar
Get a grip. During their title run he willed them a looong way. Who took on (and beat) LeBron in that legendary game7? Who defended and outplayed Kobe in the finals? The Truth, thats who.
“He didnt do anything until he got the big 3″ – Well what the fudge did Bird do without his big three? What did ANYONE do without their star teammates?
November 30th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Diagoras says:
Control (#10) is wrong about the losing streak; that happened BECAUSE Pierce was hurt. Fortunately, Celts didn’t get a first pick out of it, which inspired them to move quicker, getting Allen and then Garnett.
Pierce has played on a series of horrible teams. Remember that Jordan took the better part of a decade before he got his championship hardware; he had to wait for the Bulls to draft Pippen and trade Oakley for Cartwright (who Jordan hated).
As for Pierce’s place in the Celtics Pantheon, kind of an unfair question, because the two greatest small forwards ever to play wore the Celtic green: Bird and Havlicek. That makes Pierce third best, which in this franchise is no shame.
As for overall placement, Russell and only Russell is at the top of the list. After that, you have to evaluate the value of the position. It’s awfully hard to put him in the top 5, but top 10 makes him one of the all-time greats. Again, no shame in that.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
johnsacrimoni says:
Bird was the best player in the NBA for a stretch of his career and top 5 for most of it. Same with Russell. Guys like Hondo, Cowens and Cousy were winnners their whole careers. Pierce puts up numbers, but he was on many awful teams and has only been a borderline top 10 player most of his career.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
S-SiN says:
Paul is top 5 EASY.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
netstar says:
@scoopa
are you saying that he was a top 10 before his title? bird was already larry legend before he got his big three.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
Joe-joe says:
ummmmmmm no bob cousy????????
November 30th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
watchingandhi says:
John Havlicek’s resume:
13 straight all-star games
4 time All-NBA first team
4 time All-NBA second team
5 time All-Defensive first team
3 time All-Defensive second team
8 Championships
Paul Pierce is nowhere near the player Hondo was.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
watchingandhi says:
Also, Bob Cousy was filthy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISv-CMj4fvE&feature=related
November 30th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
hbee says:
Whatever credit Pierce deserves will probably always be negatively impacted by the fact that he needed both garnett and allen to win a title. The fact that Boston didn’t even reach the finals when garnett was out last season adds to the argument.
However he is still top 10 all time celts imo
November 30th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
Alee-Mo says:
Damn, 33 comments and NOBODY mentioned the fact that Pierce was The Man on a Celts team that went to the Eastern Conference Finals in 2002 or 2003 or whenever it was. Y’all act like he’s been in the Lottery every single year. Pierce was The Man on some Celts teams that didn’t have the most talent, but he took them far. He’s had no less successful a career than, say, Reggie Miller from a winning standpoint.
November 30th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
TJ says:
First off, blocks and steals are irrelevant since they didn’t keep track of them while half these guys were playing.
It goes like this:
Russell
Bird
Hondo
Cousy
Cowens
Pierce
McHale (always thought he was overrated)
November 30th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
Soopa says:
@ netstar
When has Larry won anything without a big three? Birds first title? In his 2nd year with McHale and Parish. That isnt a Big 3?
Look, im not knocking on Larry Legends career. Not at all. He was better and more meaningful then Pierce – in every way. But you cant knock on Pierce for playing better when having better teammates and winning it all because of it. What kinda &%¤” is that?
Im knocking on those who think that the legends did it all by them selves. You need a superstar, a couple of all star caliber players and role players. (The 03-04 Pistons are the exception which proves the rule – and they wouldnt have won it if the Lakers didnt lose Malone and implode, but thats another story).
Give Pierce his props. He has earned his place among the top5 Celtics. It has to mean something that he stayed with the franchise during the ups and downs as well. Unlike Kobe who runs and yells “trade” when he realized he couldnt do it all by himself (which i applaud him for realizing, i didnt think it would ever happen! And i love when i can sneak in a Laker diss.)
November 30th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
Big Island says:
I am not even going to read this article. I want to punch you now Austin.
November 30th, 2009 at 4:50 pm
sans says:
Pierce is 3rd. Hondo road Russell’s coattails for a while and is fifth behind Cousy.
Russell
Bird
Pierce
Cousy
Hondo
McHale
You can’t have a sidekick running first. He’s the Dan Quayle of the group.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
justlovethegame says:
Psquared’s overated. Doesn’t help either that he has an inflated opinion of himself. ‘can’t stand the cat.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
rick says:
Best Celtics of all time:
Russell, Bird, Hondo, Cowens, Cousy, Archibald, McHale, Parish, Walton, Ainge, Dennis Johnson
THEN
MAYBE
Pierce
Maybe
November 30th, 2009 at 7:22 pm
Dagomar says:
Russell and Bird absolutely own the 1 and 2 spots, respectively. Piece isn’t even remotely close, in part because longevity alone does not greatness make. Being third on that scoring list is one thing, but he’s only got that one championship.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
arisloco says:
This fat Pierce is overrated and a tough-guy-wannabe. It really made me hate him when he draws his knee on Bosh’s nuts during their game last weekend. Then after Bosh fell down nursing in pain, this overrated PP taunted at Bosh like it was a sick dunk. Can’t wait to see PP back in Toronto and get kicked in the face by Bosh on a facial dunk. Fuck this dude. No way you can get many fans aside from your stupid and moron Leprechaun fans. Burn in Hell!
December 1st, 2009 at 12:55 am
snipes says:
i love the truth.
sounds like you guys were all alive and following the celtics in the 80s and earlier. good for you. like the author wrote, it is hard to accept that new players emerge and are actually surpassing your old heroes. with PP, it’s like my friend said – he looks like and old man that can’t move that fast, but then he just scores.
plus he has a nice smile and looks like a nice guy. hah.
i love how many haters there are on this site.
December 1st, 2009 at 1:06 am
bfears says:
top 10 for sure
December 1st, 2009 at 2:03 am
steve says:
@#9
Pierce was actually injured for 60+ games that season and did not play. Hence the teams poor form, playing inexperienced rookies who needed time to mature.
December 1st, 2009 at 2:23 am
J says:
“Top 10 for sure” is an insult to Pierce and an ignorant statement. He’s top 5 EASY. As far as pure talent goes, he’s probably second only to Bird. As far as the vague attribute that is “greatness”, a lot of that being in the right place, right time, he’s still top 5 behind Russell, Bird, and Hondo. I’d say he’s above Cousy, but even if he isn’t, he’ll definitely end up ahead of Cowens when all is said and done. Like it or not, Pierce will probably score the most points of any Celtic, and might have another championship or two. If he had played on a contender for 10 years (like Kobe) instead of a scrub team, this wouldn’t even be up for debate.
December 1st, 2009 at 5:35 pm
Dave says:
PP is definitely top 5 five today and could be top 3 by the end of his career. Never thought I’d say it about him, but I’ve always been a big PP fan. I called a game in Vegas in the Reebok Classic in 94 and Paul Pierce and Ron Mercer battled in the title game and it looked to me that Mercer was a better player. At the time he was, but as Pierce matured he had a better work ethic and made the most of his talents. Our kids will think he was a legend.
December 1st, 2009 at 10:44 pm
Nevacare says:
Greatest & best are actually two different categories. Greatest means you dominated evryone who opposed you & you achieved greatness. Best means who would I pick in their prime 1st if I had to win one game.
Greatest
1.Russell because 11 rings says he dominated
2.Bird because of his offensive talent & grittiness
3.Paul Pierce because his resume would look better had he been surrounded with more talent
December 1st, 2009 at 10:55 pm
Nevacare says:
@ Rick I’m not a Celts fan, but I can’t beleive the hate Paul Pierce is getting. Bill Walton are you serious maybe one of the greatest Blazers he didn’t contribute enough in a CELTIC uni to be considered a great celt. Russell gets props for being the anchor of those 11 championship teams. Same goes for Bird & his 3 Championship Teams, but to discredit PP for being stuck on horrendous Celts teams that their Owner & GM refused to improve.Dude can ball,his game is ugly but it’s effective. the dude undeniabaly outplayed Kobe in a 7 game series. I haven’t seen that happen too often.
December 1st, 2009 at 11:05 pm
Nevacare says:
@watchingandhi, Hondo please if you want to talk greatness measure it by the quality of the opposition, not the number of titles. There were only a few teams in the league back then & no free agency, Their only opposition was Wilt & a bunch of dudes no one can name. I could have laced up for the celts & won 11 rings to be honest.Hondo did what he did, so did Russsell but jesus christ let’s be real about it none of those dudes other than Russell would even be a blip on the radar in any other era.If you say anything different you are probably over 50 years of age & too biased to know any better
December 4th, 2009 at 7:45 am
GURU says:
PP is on that list cause he`s playing with the Celtics for a long time, but he was a loser like AWALKER who made good stats ( the ones who understand basketball see that those stats are just for the media) making 40 points is not good when you miss 20 shoots…(but to the media he is a good player) that s why players like him SMARBURY TMAC VCARTER are always going to bring their teams down to the losing seasons…
PP was there and he could do anything, a HALL OF FAME player is a guy that can separets himself from the normal SUPERSTAR, BIRD picking up a team that was one of the worst in the NBA with 29 wins and 53 losses and turn into the best team in the NBA with 61 wins and 21 losses…(without KMCHAEL and PARISH DJOHNSON)…won a championship in his 2nd season…
THE UNTOCHABLES /GREAT ONES
-BIRD changed the NBA.
-COUSY the pionner (SNASH type of PG) but in a era where everthing was new.
-BRUSSEL the defensive player with a high BAsketball IQ.
-HAVLICEK (he almost averaged a triple double in some of his seasons)(he wasnt just a defender).
THEN there is the fantastic 4:
RPARISH /K MCHALE/ DCOWENS(MVP) / PPIERCE…
December 9th, 2009 at 3:33 am
King says:
Wouldve been a perfect poll qursion if the had Sam jones on there instead of Hondo.
Paul Pierce is definityly a top 5 Celtic and no lower than 4th
Russ
Bird
Paul / Sam Jones
December 11th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
Ben says:
Pierce is absolutely in the top 10, but that’s only because the Celtics have had so many great players. Anyone who says he is overrated is an idiot. No one wins championships without help. Russell and Cousy had each other and a bunch of other Hall of Famers, Bird had Parish, McHale, and others, Cowens and Havlicek had each other and Paul Silas and a bunch of other guys. Hell, Michael Jordan didn’t win jack until Scottie became a legit sidekick, and he’s the best player of all time. Pierce led some crappy teams to the playoffs and he took a team that was him, antoine walker, and a bunch of clowns to the Eastern conference finals. Even the year when the C’s lost 18 in a row, they weren’t that bad when Pierce played. To all the idiots who think the C’s lost 18 in a row with pierce on the floor, he was injured for most if not all of that streak. Get your facts straight before you criticize him. He’s a great scorer, a great defender, and unstoppable in the clutch. Definitely one of the greats for the greatest franchise in the NBA