Do you need a championship to validate your career?
Kobe Bryant
An NBA championship can do a lot of different things for a lot of different people.
If you’re a Hall of Fame-bound veteran who’s carried mediocre teams for years, e.g. Kevin Garnett in ‘08, a ring can be the final piece of validation to cap a stellar career. If you’re an up-and-coming superstar like D-Wade in ‘06, it’s a standard-bearer by which to set future goals and a quick booster into the next level of fame. If you’re a champ three times over like Kobe in ‘09 but had never won it all “on your own,” it’s a middle finger to those who wrote off your previous ‘chips. Or if you’re more like Adam Morrison in ‘09 or James White in ‘07, the ring is a nice piece of hardware you can pawn when the NBA checks stop coming.
Back to that validation thing, though. Before KG came to Boston, it was looking like he’d never get a championship and shake the reputation of being a guy who couldn’t get it done when it mattered. In that respect, he’d be in the same boat as Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Dominique Wilkins and other greats who never won a title, or current stars like Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, T-Mac, Allen Iverson and Dirk Nowitzki still looking for that elusive championship. All of them are likely headed for the Hall of Fame, but without a ‘chip to their name, will they walk away feeling empty?
Does an NBA superstar need a championship to validate his career?
**Tell us what you think, and we’ll print some of the best answers in an upcoming issue of Dime. We reserve the right to edit submissions for length and clarity.**
November 13th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
QazQami says:
IMO no, because even the biggest star is not responsable for who the GM trade or not, and even MJ can’t win a ring by himself.
can we say ewing, barkley, stockton or malone’s careers are not validated? i don’t think so..
November 13th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
J says:
I think it really is up to the player and how they look at their goals and achievements. Adam Morrison would probably prefer individual accolades more so than to “win” a championship.
Reggie Miller didn’t seem like a player to validate his career, his longetivity with the only team he played for is remarkable. His achievements and clutch shots over a long period of time became his so called “legacy.”
There are certain players, that feel complete with a championship. KG showed that hunger and desire to complete his resume with one. Kobe did too. AI on the other hand, like he said when he came into the league, wanted to do it his way. Like it or not, he got his wish.
So no, I don’t think you nede a championship to validate your career. Its a lifetime goal throughout a players career, but it shouldn’t be the something that overshadows everything else.
November 13th, 2009 at 9:29 pm
TD says:
barkley, malone, stockton, wilkins, nash kidd, nowitzki, iverson, mcgrady…..
do me a favor take mcgrady off that list, clown hasnt even made it out of the first round…REALLLY?!?!? mcgrady? smh
November 13th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
dial up says:
To be considered the best, you have to have won SOMETHING. otherwise, what separates you from other high volume scoring players (aka allen iverson)??
November 13th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
zmafuel says:
The Cuse is in the House, oh my god!
November 13th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
Gunner J. Matthews says:
Short Answer:No
Longer Answer: No He Doesn’t. As long as he tried his hardest to get one regardless of the talent around him, thats all thats matters
November 13th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
robmo35 says:
Iverson is probably a hall of famer, but players have very little control over what ype of team they play for. Remember Barkley going to Houston or Malone going to LA to chase a ring. Neither of them got it and neither of them were really responsible for not winning, in Barkley’s case injuries and in Malone’s bad chemistry. It is important to remember that there are many more middling to bad players that have a ring then hall of famers.
November 13th, 2009 at 10:09 pm
loc says:
YESSSSSSSSsss.
Win a chip or your legacy ain’t the same.
I don’t see how it can be argued. Steve Nash will forever be the most hotly contested two time MVP, and how good was he, etc. Especially with no ring to show, it will be hard to prove he didn’t win the MVP for being the most like the average fan who killed it, so lets give him the MVP. No chip will look bad.
November 13th, 2009 at 10:09 pm
robmo35 says:
Let’s also remember hall of famers who won championships as older players who had less impact on the ultimate outcome. Clyde Drexler, Mitch Richmond, Oscar Robertson, Bob MacAdoo etc… Here are examples of great players who got their rings in secondary, or in the case of Richmond, complete bench warmer roles. They have the ring, but are really remembered for prior accomplishments
November 13th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
Wil says:
Clearly the expert’s answer is no. Look for yourself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Greatest_Players_in_NBA_History
If rings are the only measurement, then Robert Horry (7) is the 3rd greatest player ever.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Horry
November 13th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
Diggity Dave says:
Many people who debate player accomplishments love to bring up rings. Would Robert Horry be spoken about in the same way if he hadn’t won seven rings?
November 13th, 2009 at 11:37 pm
Joker_Wild says:
so what is the job of a NBA player? bring the crowd in with excitement or win the chip?
November 14th, 2009 at 12:13 am
Diego says:
Hell, no!! Winning a title is a large part being in the right place at the right time–ask Charles Barkley and his buddy Scottie Pippin. There have been loads of guys as good as Pippin–Alex English, David Thompson, Adrian Dantley, Dominique, Tom Chambers, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc. who just were not with a good enough team.
And retiring 23 across the board is some dumb-ass shit! Any of you kids ever see Kareem play in his prime? (Kareem’s is probably feeling as ill from all the craxy-ass MTV-generation Jordan hype over the last few years as he is from his Leukemia.)
November 14th, 2009 at 12:46 am
QazQami says:
never heard about a player named pippin
r u talkin about the guy who played with michel jourdin?
November 14th, 2009 at 12:50 am
flavur says:
Getting a ring does not really define a players career in the end because winning a championship is a team accomplishment not an individual one and what constitutes a player being great or hall of fame caliber players is their individual careers and their impact on the game.
One more thing retiring MJ’s number I think is not a good idea I mean people start to say like since Jackie Robinson has his number retired throughout the league and such well Jackie Robinson made it possible for black athletes to become as popular as they are today which is something that not only impacted baseball but quite frankly every sport where as Jordan was just the best basketball player ever he never really changed the sport the same way Jackie Robinson did.
November 14th, 2009 at 1:50 am
85wasagreatyear says:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWkhvdCjUSs&feature=player_embedded
sorry for being off-topic.
November 14th, 2009 at 2:08 am
BRUCE says:
Damn that Jordan!
IMO, yes you do! That is the objective of the game!
Win, Win, Win!
November 14th, 2009 at 3:06 am
ctkennedy says:
only if u played on teams good enough to win the title and u play a top two role in the title run…i give garnett more respect for tryin to win with minnesota and never bitchin then i do for kobe who first turn down the charlotte hornets then after shaq left turned into a diva to get help
November 14th, 2009 at 3:21 am
BRUCE says:
Kobe helped Shaq win 3 rings! No Kobe and Flash, that 7 Feet Tall and 300 plus pounds monkey might get even get one!
November 14th, 2009 at 3:22 am
BRUCE says:
might not even get one!
November 14th, 2009 at 3:49 am
sh!tfaced says:
So what would you rather have? A Charles Barkley or Dan Marino type of career or a Scott Brosius, one great year winning a championship, the MVP, etc but the rest of your career was close to shit…?
November 14th, 2009 at 4:09 am
Peter says:
No, because basketball is a team sport where even a once in a generation talent (and I mean both mental and physical talent) like LeBron needs the right supporting cast to win a championship. This question of validation comes up more in basketball than in any other team sport because of the relative impact that a single great player has on his team’s success. No one questions the careers of Ernie Banks or Dan Marino: they are acknowledged as all-time greats even without championships. In basketball a single great player is able to carry a team to a very high level but unfortunately he can be left with a legacy like, “Why couldn’t Patrick carry Starks to a title?”
November 14th, 2009 at 4:30 am
F.L.A.S.H. says:
i’d rather be tony parker than john stockton anyday, no hesitation
November 14th, 2009 at 5:42 am
Sweet English says:
The only reason i would rather be Tony Parker is Eva Longoria Parker. The only reason.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:42 am
Amar says:
seriously, how is tmac on this list?
he’s had vince, doug christie, camby, grant hill, yao ming, etc as team mates, and he can’t even win four games in the playoffs.
def. not on the same list as guys like barkley (MVP, Finals), malone (MVPx2, Finalsx2) and so forth. even Nique (who didn’t have a lot of playoff success) is much better because of his dedication to the game. Nique was injured a few times, but he kept coming back.
November 14th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
dude says:
Only in medialand is a ring required to validate a player on a team sport. Individual sports (tennis, golf, etc.) are different. But no one can win a team sport championship by themselves. They need luck and a very stellar team around them.
So no.
November 14th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
QQ says:
Damn. I was gonna respond to this article regarding championships, then I read T-Mac’s name. Why the fuck is a guy who can’t lead his fucking team to the 2nd round on this list?
November 14th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
Taj says:
Anyone else have a problem w/ T-Mac being listed as a future Hall of Famer??
November 14th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
money says:
nope, rings not necessarily. your accomplishments are not belittled by a lack of championship. So very few teams have championships. How many of the champions in the past 30 years were not boston la san antonio chicago houston? not many. You need good teams, and great individuals can’t do it all by themselves. No way anyone can say that just because robert horry has so many rings, that he’s better than barkley reggie stockton malone etc.
November 14th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
QQ says:
@ 28:
*raises hand*
November 14th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
Taj says:
Thanks QQ… I thought I was out in left field by myself there for a sec…
I dont think that you have to win a chip for your career to be validated… Yes, thats what you play the game for, but more importantly thees guys should be judged by how they played the game. Karl Malone, Sir Charles etc. all played hungry looking for a chip and in turn put up great numbers, lead their teams exeptionally and at most times were great for the game… That’s how your career should be validated.
November 15th, 2009 at 1:52 am
Raj S says:
Elgin Baylor never won a championship. If he did, how would that change your opinion of him? Would it make him any better in your eyes? A guy who averaged 27 and 13 for his career, with 10 All NBA first team selections and 11 All star appearances? What more could he have done to try and help his team over the top? He even scored 61 in a Finals game!!!
Championships go to great teams, not great players. Think about the 2004 Pistons.
November 15th, 2009 at 2:36 am
mcw88 says:
without pippen, I doubt MJ would have won 6 rings. Someone like James Posey won rings with Miami and Boston, but he’s not doing so well in New Orleans because they need more than just a 3pt shooter and defensive specialist. Championships are important (you play to win the game) but they shouldnt be the sole indicator of how great a player is. Especially considering that at the opposite end of the spectrum, there are always goin to be players who get rings but barely contributed (Mad dog and Scab comes to mind, Lakers and Boston respectively)
November 15th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
sunni says:
i think if they gonna retire 23 across the board, then they gotta retire 6 (bill russel); hes the greatest winner ever…aint no-one else ever gonna win 11 championships..even lebron cant do that…mj couldnt…retire 6, 23, and wilts number cause aint no-one else gonna bang 20,000 chicks either..as far as a championship goes–nah–dont need it to validate career..do need it to set you apart from the rest, but not to validate your greatness…you cant help it if you dont get picked up in the draft by the lakers or celtics and end up on the clips/knicks
November 15th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
Heckler says:
No. winning a championship does NOT ‘validate’ a players career.
However, the Hall of Fame validates your career.
remember, every year 12-15 players win a championship; not just the star player.
Rings dont validate shit anymore. just the hall of fame
November 16th, 2009 at 1:05 am
heartbreaker85 says:
not really.
it wouldnt be nice to be a hanger on much like glen rice and mitch richmond did when they suited up for the lakers during the kobe-shaq days.
either you win it all by contributing big, or not at all and just walking away from the game with class.
but i admire how reggie miller did it and left the game, knowing that he gave it 100% and even when all the circus created by ron-sjack-jo, reggie came back strong and carried that team to a respectable record.
November 21st, 2009 at 9:20 pm
hbafdhja says:
To become a legend: Yes. To become a great player: No Basketball is a team sport. You need at least 2 stars + a good supporting cast. eg. KG got it because he was with pierce,allen, rondo etc. Ewing didn’t get it becuase he didn’t have a good teamate. Chris Webber didn’t get it because of david stern.