Defining Allen Iverson’s place in 76ers history
Last week we examined where Paul Pierce fits into the hierarchy of all-time Boston Celtics. Yesterday, in the hours leading up to Allen Iverson’s second coming to the Sixers, reader Shaw32 asked where A.I. fits into Philly’s royal family.
Unlike Pierce, there shouldn’t be an argument against Iverson at least being in the discussion as possibly the greatest Sixer of all-time. Nobody in the franchise’s history has a handful more championships or MVP’s than Iverson. Nobody gets significantly more love from the Philly faithful. Iverson might be the city’s favorite player, but has he had a better career for the Sixers than anyone else? Is he in the top three? Top five?
The Sixers are long in the tooth as an NBA entity; their history dates back to 1950, just three years after the Celtics debuted, when they were called the Syracuse Nationals. The Sixers don’t have as many championships as the Celts and haven’t been as superstar-studded as the Lakers, but they are one of the NBA’s signature teams.
It gets a bit trickier, though, because unlike the Celts and Lakers, a lot of the Sixers’ defining players did not spend their entire careers with the organization. Wilt Chamberlain only played three and a half seasons with the team. Moses Malone was there for four years, then came back for a fifth when he was 38 years old. Julius Erving spent the first five years of his career in the ABA with Virginia and New York. Mo Cheeks spent the last four years of his between the Knicks, Spurs, Hawks and Nets. Charles Barkley reached his peak accomplishments (MVP, NBA Finals) after he left Philly.
Iverson spent his prime years with the Sixers, but surprising to some (or at least to me), he actually is not Philly’s all-time leading scorer: That would be Hal Greer, who some old-timers argue makes A.I. not even the best small scoring guard the Sixers have ever employed. Iverson does rank #1 in points per game (28.1 ppg), three-point makes and attempts, steals per game (2.3 spg), along with third in total assists, second in total steals, and second in free throw makes and attempts. He led the team to the 2001 Finals, the same year he won league MVP.
Also worthy of mention in the debate are Dolph Schayes, George McGinnis, Billy Cunningham and Johnny “Red” Kerr. (Note: Schayes may be the definitive player to look at when you talk about the physical evolution of the game. Generally considered one of the best “big men” of all-time, who at his peak averaged 24 points and 14 boards, Schayes was listed at 6-7, 195 pounds. That’s the same size as Harrison Barnes, the best high school player in the country this year who plays small forward/two-guard. Not to mention Barnes could probably jump over Dolph’s head and dust him in a 100-meter dash in his prime.)
Where does Allen Iverson rank among the greatest 76ers of all-time?
December 8th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
Detroit Dave says:
Well, he ranks higher than Royal Ivey, thats for sure.
December 8th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
JD says:
i’d go with at least top 5
December 8th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
control says:
I would probably rank him somewhere between “quit writing so many fucking articles about this scrub” and “fuck AI”.
December 8th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Celts Fan says:
I’d go #1. Moses,Wilt, and Doc were better overall, but weren’t there long enough to overtake AI and no one else on that list was better historically.
December 8th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
Shaw32 says:
def top 3 cuz like Austin said he’s one of the only sixer greats to play his prime and bulk carrar games in a philly uniform.
December 8th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
No J Mayo says:
All-time Sixers team would be dope
pg AI
sg Hal
sf Doc
pf Chuck
c Wilt
Bench: Bobby Jones, Mo Cheeks, Andrew Toney, George McGinnis….
December 8th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
Kermit The Washington says:
Out of all the 6′ers greats, no one comes close to AI in the category of “Left the city, looked like a dummy for all the other teams he played for, and then came back to Philly seeking (and inexplicably receiving) an unhealthy amount of attention and love for not really doing much since he left in the first place”. Geez.
December 8th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
Chicagorilla says:
LMAO@ Control and Kermit….
AI would rank top 5 i guess, but Wilt is #1. DOc #2, and maybe Barkey #3 slightly ahead of Moses. Then AI. Although AI and Barkley kinda had the same career… undersized and did things they weren’t supposed to do… while also playing some terrible defense (Although Barkley exaggerates how bad he was on Defense in his prime years).
December 8th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
GABRIEL BROGDEN says:
BORN IN ‘82
I can speak on my beloved.
1. Wilt Chamberlain — }} HOME GROWN STUD — FRONTIER ATHLETE OF THE MODERN NBA. He would be a BEAST even if his heydays were played nowadays.
OVERBROOK’S FINEST
2. Julius Erving aka DR J — }} OUR SUPERSTAR
(sorta like Chase Utley is now for us)
3. —}} AI GOES HERE.
4. Barkley — }} Tough, Individualist, Polarizing, Controversial,…but didn’t even take us to the Promise Land but we love him 2 death. Even spit on lil’ girl, but we love him 2 death. When you think of the 6ers in the 90s (before AI), you think of Barkley. Bottomline. Big ol’ bus head Barkley
5. Hal — AWESOME SCORER. And even though it’s not his fault, played against a less diverse pool of talent. Would be average or slightly above average nowadays…real impact was the inside outside combo of him and the NUMBER ONE.
6. Moses Malone –}} FO FO FO, we needed this anchor.
7. Mo Cheeks —}} we needed this floor general
Although #3 and #4 did not attain a championship for the ‘215′ like the other 5 mentioned, they were/are defining talents of thier respective teams and era. AI’s book has yet to be closed.
JUST MY $0.02
December 8th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
AdvancedMind says:
I agree with control.
I almost wish a season ending Vigina tear for A. I.
I also most point out that i have thrown up in my mouth several times reading these bubbling retards actually believing A.I is a better player then Moses, Doc, and Wilt, all players who brought CHIPS to there city, and are all apart of the 50 greatest players of all time club.
Fuck Mo Cheeks was a better player and teammate then A.I.
This is worse then the article that actually asked if Paul Pierce is the greatest Celtic ever.
December 8th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
jace says:
*shakes head*… theres always haters somewhere.
anyway.. pound for pound (or inch by inch?) the best scorer to be employed by philadelphia. leads and is in the top 5 for a handful of stats for the sixers. scoring titles. mvp/allstar mvps.
even if you disregard what he’s done statically because its never resulted in a championship. hes been able to do the most with the least amount of help.
and then look at the affect he’s had on the league AND on the city. no one in the “Philadelphia all-time greats” discussion comes close.
December 8th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
LakeShow84 says:
Sorry DIME..
Championships define careers..
NUFF said.. Now maybe to our generation Iverson would be considered the best 76er ever but it would be for reasons other than basketball..
As far as im concerned hes the greatest little man to ever play in Philly.. thats worth something.. not much but something..
December 8th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
LakeShow84 says:
“I would probably rank him somewhere between “quit writing so many fucking articles about this scrub” and “fuck AI”.”
Funiiest shit i read all day..
made me laugh out loud lol
December 8th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
TJ says:
Wilt then Moses. People forget how damn good Moses was.
December 8th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
JoeCozi says:
damn just when i thought we was done hearing bout this selfish ass mufucka…..he needs somebody to get hurt to have a starting job…face it the answer is done and can only play on a team with no playoff hopes…no talented player has ever wanted to play with AI put this negative ass old school bitter mufucka to rest already!!..at least the new superstars don’t have a the world owes me mentality like AI…AI going out like De la Hoya!!..ahaa
December 8th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
Bizz says:
LakeShow84 says:
Sorry DIME..
Championships define careers..
^^^
Please explain what this did for Adam Morrison, Sasha Vujacic, and a bunch of other scrubs who have more rings than A.I. RETARDED COMMENT OF THE DAY.
December 8th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
karizmatic says:
AI is probably second or third behind Dr. J and Wilt if you consider him actually having a career there…maybe 4th behind Barkley as well but that’s really arguable to me.
December 8th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
SMH says:
Judging by some of these comments..AI will certainly rank in the top 3 hated on players in NBA history. Some of you people need to get a life and quit talking shit on the internet you wouldn’t say to any of these players face. LMAO @ someone sitting at a computer on the internet having the nerve to call Iverson a “scrub”. the irony of some of the comments on DIME are hilarious.
December 8th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
LakeShow84 says:
@ BIZZ
LMAO.. ur a knoc for that..
I aint never seen someone make the retarded comment of the day while trying to point out the retarded comment of the day.. lmao..
all i will say is Winner know what i am talking about.. not losers.. So in case you cant figure that out lemme spell it out for u..
Ur probably a loser when u play basketball and ur favorite team has probably ALWAYS been a loser so u have no idea in the slightest what winning is about.. and what being a real winner is all about as far as TEAM sports go..
And anyone who thinks Iverson is a winner is a straight fuckin loser.. plain and simple.. and dont waste ur time showing me stats.. shit if u look at Stats AI trumps Vince Carter.. And Vince aint takin no Vet’s minimum last time i checked..
December 8th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
control says:
SMH
Set me up with a sit down with any of these players I ‘hate’ on and I will say it straight to their face. Why would I be scared to? Specifically, why would I be scared of some midget who weighs in at 150lbs like AI? Because he’s “gangster” or something?
If he wanted to make it physical because I’m saying something that his coaches, parents, friends, family and teammates SHOULD have been saying to him throughout his entire career, then I’d beat his ass down and then say it again when he wakes up. Yeah, the guy is a scrub because he’s selfish and doesn’t give a fuck about anyone but himself and HIS stats. Interesting fact about AI, he’s NEVER played more than 1 1/2 seasons with whoever on his team scores the 2nd most amount of points. He ALWAYS drives them away…I wonder why?
December 8th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
Lakeshow go shine Kobes shoes says:
^ Lakeshow
Dont you and Kobe have a teabagging to attend? There is nothing worse then watching a major fanboy attack someone elses opinion on another player. Go shine Kobes shoes dimwit.
December 8th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
SMH says:
Yes, Control, we all understand your internet thugery is at an all time high and everyone should be afraid (or care for that matter) what you have to say..now please do yourself a favor and calm your blood pressure down before you give yourself a stroke. Iverson doesn’t give a damn what any of us are talking about, nor should he..him listening to the haters (no need to put quotation marks around the word that you come acrossed as) is what got him in a messed up position in the first place. He should have never left Philly because thats his home and every little move he makes will keep the talkers yapping. He can blame some of this on himself as well.
Wether you like Iverson or not, you cant deny his ability to play the game. Period. Iverson may be a lot of things, but one thing that dude never can be described as is a scrub. It seems to me that the nay sayers care more about this dude then his fans do. You can always count on the same people in the same comment sections talking the same sh*t. Good luck with all that.
December 8th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
Reverend Paul Revere says:
These comments look like the ones over at Philly.com … and that’s not a compliment.
1. Wilt
2. Doc
3. AI
4. Moses
5. Charles.
December 8th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
control says:
SMH
Yeah man, my blood pressure is just insane. You got shit twisted, my internet thugery is a stress reliever for me, not a stress builder. It’s extremely amusing to me to see people like you who take shit so seriously that you feel the need to let me know I’m a hater just because I think he’s a cancer for his team. I think that because of the results he has had, and will have, everything proves that what I am saying is correct.
I can’t deny his ability to play the game, but I can dispute how much success the way he plays the game has for his teams. The only reason it seems the naysayers care more than his fans do is because there are A LOT more people who dislike him now than like him. If you took the fans of 28 teams in the league and asked them if they’d want AI on their team…a massive majority would say “Hell No!”. Just like asking “would you want your mom to get cancer?” most people who actually LIKE their mother and know what cancer is would say no, it’s the same for AI.
Also, why would AI care about what some random internet flunky says about him? That you think that anyone thinks that he actually should is just insane, the whole entire notion of it is insane. It wasn’t him listening to haters that got him messed up, it was him being a cancer and fighting with anyone of any talent level that threatened his ball domination that messed him up.
End of the season will come, and I’m sure AI will be the AI he always has been in his career and most of what his haters have been saying will have been proven.
December 8th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
Mikey F Baby says:
man just mention AI and the haters come out in full force!!
December 8th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
LakeShow84 says:
LMAO @ 21..
Im sorry.. was it the loser statement?? did that hit close to home??
December 8th, 2009 at 11:39 pm
J 694 says:
Iverson was lucky to play with the greats like DC, Geiger, Van Horn and Willie Greene. I don’t think he would have gotten to a championship without that type of support.
December 9th, 2009 at 9:32 am
Nigel says:
Can’t belive all the people putting Wilt at #1. He didn’t mean as much to the franchise as much as a few others. It goes like this to me.
1.Erving(interchangeable with AI)
2.Iverson(interchangeable with the Doctor)
3.Greer
4.Chamberlain
5.Barkley
6.Malone
7.Cunningham
8.Cheeks
9.Shcayes
10.Toney
I have to put AI and Dr. J atop beacuase of the long years they spent with the franchise and waht they meant to it. That is why Greer and Barkley are so high as well. Cheeks also played with them for a while, but he wasnt as good as them on the court so he’s a little further down.
And the thing about AI not leading the team in points. He’s roughly 2k behind Greer. If he sticks around for a little, he should pass him. And Greer played 15 years with the team.
December 9th, 2009 at 10:39 am
kendrick g says:
1 A.I 96-06
2 D.O.C
3 Wilt
4Greer
5 A.I 2009-present
thats the list