In Defense of the Old Guys
Shaquille O'Neal (photo. Chenoa Maxwell)
This week’s “Damn, I feel old” moment came from Wednesday’s Cavs/Sixers game. It was when I realized Shaq and Allen Iverson were on the court, and neither was the best player on his own squad. Shaq isn’t even the marquee box-office attraction in Cleveland, while A.I. only holds that distinction in Philly because he’s royalty in the city and because Andre Iguodala isn’t as famous as he is talented.
That aging feeling was compounded soon after tip-off, when it became clear each team intended to take advantage of the defensive deficiencies of Shaq and Iverson — the two old guys on the court.
Iverson began the game guarding Anthony Parker, so on the Cavs’ opening two possessions, they made a point to get AP the ball while he posted Iverson up on the block. The first time, he turned and hit an easy jumper. The next time, A.I. played him tougher and forced Parker to pass out, and when he re-posted, Iverson poked the ball away for a steal. After that, Parker went back to his usual routine of loitering in the corner waiting to catch-and-shoot.
Keeping the 6-6 Parker off the low-block, however, was probably a relief for Iverson, who so far in his comeback has been asked to stay in front of speedsters like Ty Lawson, Rodney Stuckey, Aaron Brooks and Monta Ellis, often with negative results.
Last night, Iverson (16 pts) got his first score by running a pick-and-roll with Sam Dalembert aimed at exploiting Shaq’s notoriously lazy D on those kinds of plays. Philly analyst Ed Pinckney said Shaq “likes to contain” on pick-and-rolls, a nice way of saying Diesel rarely steps up to defend on a switch. (And even when he does, it’s less likely that he’ll steal the ball from Devin Harris and more likely that Mike Conley will skate past him for a game-winning layup.)
Basketball, especially in the NBA, is a game of matchups. That’s why we have terms like “Mouse in the House” and “Clear-out” and “Fake-and-Rake.” (I heard that one for the first time a few days ago when a Denver announcer used it to describe one of Carmelo‘s favorite moves.) And that’s why aging vets like Shaq and A.I. see their minutes and shots decline at this stage in their careers. It’s not that they can’t still score — it’s that their defense starts to become a detriment and teams take advantage of those matchups, forcing coaches to take them out of the game.
Watching Tracy McGrady slowly work his way back into the Rockets’ rotation, I’ve been paying more attention to his defense than his offense. As soon as I saw T-Mac stroke one three-pointer and effectively drive to the basket once during his brief debut on Tuesday, I knew he could still get buckets. But if he’s going to get an opportunity to be the “old” T-Mac again, he’ll have to be able to at least contain his defensive assignment. Against Detroit, McGrady had problems staying in front of Jonas Jerebko. Against Denver last night, Mac was getting eaten up by Carmelo. In the seven-plus minutes he was primarily guarded by T-Mac, ‘Melo dropped 11 points.
The difference between Iverson, Shaq and T-Mac is that Shaq was actually hired for his defense. The Cavs aren’t paying $20 million or whatever Shaq makes for the 11 points per game he gives them; Cleveland needed somebody to keep the likes of Dwight Howard, Pau Gasol and Tim Duncan from giving them 30 on the other end. To date, Shaq has only matched up with one of those guys once this season, and he did a solid job taking Dwight out of that game, which Cleveland won.
In the meantime, though, Cavs opponents will continue to go at Shaq with quicker guards on those pick-and-rolls. And if we’re in June and guys like Rajon Rondo and Tony Parker are following the examples of Conley and A.I., Shaq’s defense might be the source of another sad Cleveland sports moment.
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December 17th, 2009 at 11:11 am
sans says:
Welcome to the city of lost hope and broken dreams, where its easier to get carjacked than it is to find employment. GO CAVS!
December 17th, 2009 at 11:24 am
GABRIEL BROGDEN says:
Nice Read!
I guess I’m gettin’ old too then.
And then to hear Gilbert say “I felt little” to Tyreke after he perfectly timed and calmly swiped Gilbert’s x-over…I guess I am gettin’ up there.
December 17th, 2009 at 11:40 am
mike says:
what’s a fake and rake?
December 17th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
karizmatic says:
It’s sad when you’re on the basketball court in pick up games and you become that guy which I am now. Fortunately I play a little better defense than I initially let on and use it to my advantage to demoralize most young guys who think they are going to have an easy time scoring on me.
December 17th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Chicagorilla says:
I think you are seriously over exaggerating the effectiveness of AI’s defense early in his career. He was never a stopper and has always been a weak link on D outside of his playing the passing lanes pretty well. Watch the old tapes of him being matched up with Starbury and you’ll see what I mean. AI will still score his points the same way, and he’ll still give up points the same way. He doesn’t seem any slower than he was a few years ago when he was scoring 33ppg. All the hype about him “slowing down” is just that…hype. He’s an athletic freak of nature, like Darrell Armstrong and that old corner back Darrell Green (who still ran a 4.4 40 at the age of 38 or something like that).
I also think you are seriously down playing Shaq effectiveness on Defense. He’s not there to stop the pick in roll. And for a quick news flash… Dwight Howard, Amare, Tim Dunca, and several other big centers aren’t very good at guarding the pick-n-roll. It’s just a lazy way of finding a chink in Shaqs Armor not associated with FT’s. Shaq could probably still avg 20 and 10, 4asst and 2-3blks. But he’ll never play enough minutes or games (as he likes to take nights off because his body may not hold up. Shaq will be useless vs the Celts when KG and Sheed are in the game, but the moment Perk or Big Baby comes in, you better believe they’re not scoring. Also Shaq is still scoring on ANY big in the L with a high efficiency. Like I said, he just ain’t got the body for the 82 game stuff anymore.
December 17th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
q says:
karizmatic, why you need to post this here?
December 17th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
Chicagorilla says:
@4,
I know that feeling. I had this little Asain kid come at my head at a lifetime fitness up here. He tried guarding me full court and constatly called for clearouts so he can shoot his longrange 3′s. Little did he know i’m from the old school, so I forced him to drive then I chopped at his arms and gave him the foul. then told him “The is no foul limit, I hope you know how to use a ball screen”. Yeah I basically became Rick Mahorn and Charles Oakley.
December 17th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
POPPI GEE says:
Wondering if I am going to enjoy basketball as much as I did then and now in the future.
I mean it’s plenty of young cats coming that are nice. John Wall is one. Still it’s feels like I grew up with Allen, Zo, Shaq, Kobe and all them cats.
Nah forget getting old, I’m on my Rod Stewart Forever young ish!
December 17th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Hucklebuck says:
Since I feel closely linked to these two guys since I was in elementary, I will indeed be in defense of these two.
I am already at war with people from the “Orlando needs an enforcer” article in which some fools are taking down Shaq as if he was Ostertag.
Shaq is easily top 5 in centers in NBA History. You can arguably say he is the best ever. During his Laker days NO ONE could stop him. He was too strong for weak centers and too quick for slow ones. He played very smart basketball. I can name a bunch of centers I shouldn’t even know about that had the size and strength of Shaq but weren’t successful. Just because he had slowed up nowadays doesn’t mean he doesn’t know how to play the game.
In AI’s defense, I will say his attitude frustrates me, but you can’t take away what he has contributed to the game. In AI’s best days, people FEARED to play him because they didn’t want to end up like Mike at the elbow of the key. He was an average defender but he played passing lanes well. Like Shaq, AI can still play the game much better than the majority of players today.
Yes, I am speaking of their primes that they have passed, BUT the fact remains that they are two SUPERSTARS of the NBA that have been top players in the NBA for a consistent amount of years.
December 17th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
LakeShow84 says:
Bet in the playoff series Cavs lose to Magic or C’s they will run the pick and roll to DEATH on Shaq in the 4th.. as a matter of fact look at the Celtics first game against the Cavs.. look at what they ran in the 4th.. it isnt about EVERYONE else not being good at it but in Shaqs case he is HORRIBLE at it lol he RARELY shows to the ball and he damn sure dont come out far enough to challenge the pick and pops..
Bottom line Shaq has NEVER been good at pickandroll D.. even when he was young..
December 17th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
karizmatic says:
@ q
That’s just what it made me think of…maybe you haven’t had that feeling yet.
@ Chicagorilla
You know what I’m talking about. This Asian kid (what’s up with them lately?) called for a clear out on me, but he used a basic as crossover like he was just going to blow past me and I stripped him clean, he was embarassed and really didn’t want the ball anymore after that. I went to work posting him up on the other end and basically he was a non factor for the rest of the afternoon. Oh and my team won of course.
December 17th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
Chicagorilla says:
@Lakeshow,
dammit, you always seem to oppose me. You find any little reason too. Anyway
So with the C’s running Pick-n-Roll…who’s gonna kill in that situation? Rondo? He can’t f^king shoot. So Shaq would be a dumb ass to come out, that’s on Mo williams to go underneath the pick and hustle back to his man. If it’s Paul Pierce, Then i’ll take Lebron Chasing him off the pick forcing him down the lane towards ShaQ as I wouldn’t be worried at all about PP’s passing ability like i would be about Rondo’s. So the C’s aren’t really gonna cause problems on the P-n-Roll. That’s off course if Mike Brown isn’t a f^king tard.
Also, you can say he’s terrible off the pick-n-roll and way worse than anyone else, but he didn’t seem to have that problem in LA. Tex Winter sure figured out a way to disguise this weakness when they played Utah over and over and beat them. With Shaq on the pick-n-Roll, it’s up to his wing players to know how to actually play D on that particular play.
And if the C’s are gonna cause any problem with Shaq, it’ll be having to choose who to guard between KG and Rasheed.
Side Note: Rondo shooting jumpers or Rasheed shooting 3′s or KG shooting long jumpers off the pick-n-roll/pop would be more than fine with me if i was coaching. I can always get a hand in KG or Sheeds face and I’ll take my chances % wise from long distance than i will from inside the paint with either of those two.