Statistically Speaking
When comparing NBA players, fans always show bias. We all have players we hold above all others and will argue why they are better than another player or deserve an All Star bid more until we are blue in the face. We are often blinded by the player himself and use his past accomplishments as evidence for why he is so great today (remember the Gasol/Shaq debate ).
What if we removed the player from the equation? What if we looked at the stats blindly. In Statistically Speaking I will present two player’s season stats and pose the question, statically speaking, who is better. The post will be updated later today and I will reveal the two players in question and see when the veil of bias is removed who the average fan thinks is better. As Jay-Z said “men lie, women lie, numbers don’t”.
Carlos Boozer (Player X): This two time All Star is making a push to earn his 3rd selection of his career. Boozer is averaging 19.9 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 3.4 apg, 1.1 spg and .6 bpg. He is shooting 55% from the field and 83% from the charity stripe. He’s averaging 35.6 minutes per game and his NBA efficiency rating is +25.56.
Amare Stoudemire (Player Y): This four time All Star is averaging 19.8ppg, 6.90 rpg, 1.1 apg, .9 spg and 1.6bpg. He is shooting 58% from the field and 73% from the charity stripe. He is averaging 34.2 minutes per game and has an NBA efficiency rating of +19.65.
Both players play the same position (PF), are in their 7th year in the league and are entering the 2010 free agency pool. Player X attempts more shots per game (14.5 compared to 12.7) but both players are stars on their team, leading their team in scoring. With all that said, you have money to spend in 2010 and need a PF. Who would you target? Who do you think is better Player X or Player Y?
Update: As some of our readers posted player X is Carlos Boozer and Player Y is Amare Stoudemire. statistically speaking Carlos Boozer is having a much better season that Stat but on reputation most people would choose Amare. Reputation can only take you so far eventually the numbers have to be considered.
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December 1st, 2009 at 10:47 am
Talented says:
1st, need a Dimemag mobile please
December 1st, 2009 at 10:49 am
don says:
player x is boozer and y is amare
December 1st, 2009 at 10:49 am
Taj says:
I’m saying player X.. Dont tell me its the Red Rocket or someone like that!!!!
December 1st, 2009 at 10:49 am
Soopa says:
Ill take X (And i think i know who he is…)- mainly because of the rebounding/assist numbers.
December 1st, 2009 at 10:56 am
James B says:
x…but…intangibles cant be computed…making the big shots…the right pass….being clutch is just as important
December 1st, 2009 at 10:57 am
Jayo says:
I’ll take player X. Those stats look like it could be Chris Bosh. I’ll guess that player Y is Amare.
December 1st, 2009 at 10:57 am
bigdoggchad says:
Player X is Carlos Boozer and player Y is Amar’e Stoudemire.
December 1st, 2009 at 11:02 am
STAT says:
im going with y. you gotta be able to block shots at the 4.
December 1st, 2009 at 11:06 am
Youngwood says:
The numbers say player X , i think we are talking Boozer vs Amare though and that is a tough choice to make . However the point is made Amare is riding on reputation right now .Someone with that skill set should be averaging more then 7 boards a game .
December 1st, 2009 at 11:07 am
Soopa says:
@4 James B
Thats not what this is about. No intangibles, just stats! Looking forward to more of these. This is fun lol!
And please dont spoil the fun by annoucing who X and Y is (its not like its hard to look up). Just say who you’d take based solely on the stats.
December 1st, 2009 at 11:12 am
control says:
Yeah, it’s Booz and Stat.
I like this article, but the stats don’t tell the whole story. They don’t lie, but they don’t tell the whole truth either. Age, attitude, cluchness and other intangibles go into the equation and can turn a great stat player into a piece of shit (Zach Randolph) or a horrible stat player into the best player to ever have lived, and a god among mortals (Manu(there you go Ian)).
That being said, going by stats, Booze would be the obvious choice, going by everything else, Stat would.
December 1st, 2009 at 11:16 am
RonNation says:
Boozer is playin pretty sick this year.
December 1st, 2009 at 11:18 am
KenAdams says:
Just like Soopa said…. We are looking at stats! Everyone stop saying names. Hey Dime don’t even tell us the position they play. Just by stats alone I would take player X.
December 1st, 2009 at 11:24 am
Chicagorilla says:
I like the 1.6 Bpg over the .5 I’ll go with the second player (Amare).
December 1st, 2009 at 11:26 am
Chicagorilla says:
And Jay-z is a sell-out to the hip-hop game. quoting him at this point is lame.
Joe Buddens let you know “I hate to tell it to you, NUMBERS ALWAYS LIE”.
December 1st, 2009 at 11:29 am
control says:
Slaughterhouse!
December 1st, 2009 at 11:32 am
iain. says:
x is boozer i’d guess
December 1st, 2009 at 11:32 am
johnny says:
‘Who do you prefer in free agency?’ leaves out age and health. It also leaves out harder-to-quantify attributes such as man-defense, chemistry and making teammates better which are often known to fans.
Sorry to poop in your cereal. The article makes a good point about Amare’s disproportionate appreciation.
December 1st, 2009 at 11:33 am
johnny says:
@ Chicagorilla
Numbers never lie, but people put words in their mouth.
December 1st, 2009 at 11:40 am
Roko says:
Look at these clowns googling the stats and announcing the name players like they’re smart or something. Not really that difficult to go that route.
With that said, I really like the point Kellan, without the bias of a name attached Player X is the man you should target if you are trying to win games. As Jay said the numbers don’t lie, and while GM’s are faced with business concerns, ie popularity may put butts in seats and jerseys on backs, winning games is almost purely based on numbers. This is a great example of how that may be clouded by those other factors.
Again, great example, and I hope you have a few more Statistically Speakings coming our way.
December 1st, 2009 at 11:40 am
sans says:
The question is: does player X’s team deserve two All Stars? No they don’t if it’s between Deron and Booz…while Amar’e is the only All Star worthy player on the Suns–sorry Steve, you’re comp is too fierce…
But yeah STAT wise, take X…neither play any D…
December 1st, 2009 at 11:55 am
Roko says:
I hate to do this but Chicagorilla Jay is not a sell out, hes a sell UP. He would be a sell out if he was talkin about being in the hood while hes in a penthouse on Park Ave with Beyonce. If your not advancing, its pointless.
“Its all about progression, loiterers should be arrested”
I apologize for commenting off topic but I find ignorance to be offensive.
December 1st, 2009 at 12:01 pm
Amar says:
HOOLEEEY SHIIT! Boozer is avg. 19.9 ppg *and* 10.6 ppg???
He’s scoring 30.5 ppg?
Or maybe Dime needs to proof read a bit more.
December 1st, 2009 at 12:05 pm
KenAdams says:
@14
The one thing player Y has over player X is blocks 1.6 to .6. Everything else player X stats are better. I take the guy that was scoring more, rebonding more, assisting more and stealing more over the guy that blocks 1 more shot a game and is worse at everything else… get real.
December 1st, 2009 at 12:08 pm
Pat says:
I think there is a key missing statistic here – how many shots per game does each player’s TEAM attempt? This will give an indication of the tempo of the player’s team. The more shots your team attempts, the more opportunity a player has to get rebounds, assists, and blocks. Arguably steals too. Players on slower-tempo teams should have their personal stats count for slightly more than players on higher-tempo teams.
December 1st, 2009 at 12:24 pm
Heckler says:
dont ever quote jayz on this site again.
numbers dont lie; they just dont tell the whole story.
December 1st, 2009 at 12:32 pm
George W Kush Sr says:
Age, health, if the player is declining/improving, all HUGE factors before signing someone.
Based on the numbers, you have to with player X because rebounding and 20ppg are almost required at the 4. As a GM, with 20-10 secured by the 4, I can look for a defensive presence at the 5.
With player Y, as a GM, I’d have to find a 5 that can compensate for the 4′s poor rebounding and still have to find a defensive presence at the 5.
But, if we’re talking Booz vs Stat, I’d have to take Stat because he doesn’t stay injured all year like Booz, Stat hasn’t fucked over 2 companies like Booz, and he’s a bigger match up problem for oposing teams.
The numbers don’t lie, Booz is having a better season, but signing someone is a serious business decision so other factors come in. Like someone said earlier, would you rather have Manu’s 16 ppg or Antoine Walker’s 20ppg?
Numbers don’t lie, it’s all about understanding them
December 1st, 2009 at 12:41 pm
Chicagorilla says:
@Roko,
We can take it there.
So he’s rapping about pointless stuff that none of his fans will ever or have never experienced. Nothing wrong with that I guess, because he’s always done that.
But the reason he is a sell-out is far beyond his choice of topics. His lyrical similies (or Metaphors as some incorrectly call it) are inferior to so many artist (Lupe Fiasco, Joe Buddens, Mos Def, Beanie Sigel, Corey Gunz for example) which is a sign that he has fallen off. But instead of helping to usher in a new era of hip-hop, he became a soldier in the saturated market created by popular artist (Lil Wayne, 50cent, Kanye West, Drake, Gucci, Jeezy).
Jigga could’ve single handedly change the culture of hip-hop (or at least not hinder the change) from the watered down lyrics and terrible artist claiming to either be the best (Wayne/Drake) or claiming to be the grimiest (Gucci/Plies).
Jay should have ended Weezy’s career when he came at Jay’s head a few years ago and instead he p^$$ied out and got on a track with him because Weezy was the hottest artist (eminem just did the same thing…so sad). Jay is also responsible for Officer Ricky Ross, Plies, Gucci, and Jeezy. 4 of the fakest rappers in the industry, but they sell records (for Def Jam, they don’t actually make much themselves).
Wayne was caught kissing a man on the lips (who was not related to him), wearing tight jeans, and some how he is still the most popular artist in rap. Rick Ross was found to be a corrections officer, which isn’t bad if you aren’t rapping about killing and drug dealing all the time, yet he is still making records. Did Jay cause that, nope. Did he jump on the track to help validate these cats…yep!
And in the worst display of him selling out, now he’s got Beanie Sigel at his neck and Beans is telling how shit really went down at the so called “Roc-la-famila”.
In the end, Music is timeless so I can still bump that 92-2001 eras of hip-hop that was off the hook. Including some of Jay’s good shit. But he needs to take a seat, Numbers or not, they ALWAYS LIE.
As Charles Barkley would quip on TNT…”Tupac Shakur is turning over in his grave…Biggie Smalls, is turning over in his grave”.
December 1st, 2009 at 1:54 pm
karizmatic says:
I’ll take player X
December 1st, 2009 at 1:54 pm
Amar says:
glad you guys fixed the ppg/rpg thing. good looking, professional magazine website!
December 1st, 2009 at 2:04 pm
Roko says:
Chicagorilla
I’ll be brief, and again apologize for commenting off-topic, but oddly enough I have to agree with some of your points. And from the purist point of view you seem to be taking, your entirely right.
However, Jay-Z is in the business of selling records, not preserving the sanctity of hip-hop. Some would even say he is aiding it’s progression by allowing it to appeal to a wider audience, one who may not have previously been drawn to a music that’s content was dominated by gangsta/drug culture.
Furthermore, as the CEO of a company who was again, in the business of selling records, he was responsible for putting artists in place who would help attain quantifiable goals such as revenue and profit. And let’s be honest, some of the purer hip-hop artists who may be superior in skills, (ie Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Kurupt, Lupe) are far inferior in sales to some of their counterparts.
Including himself on a track with artists that he signed, to the label in which he was employed by, was nothing more than securing increased sales for those artists and furthering his success as the CEO of one of the, if not the, pioneering hip-hop record companies in the world. And with that said, I think his position as a CEO held him accountable to those goals, rather than policing the “realness” of the hip-hop community.
While it was completely unrealted to anything basketball, I appreciated the discussion. Apologies to Kellan if we turned his post into a Jay-Z/Hip-Hop summit. Keep up the good work and keep the statistically speakings coming. Thanks.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:01 pm
ldawg3323 says:
Numbers arent the ONLY thing when building a team…Chemistry is a HUGE issue. Steals and blocks are great, but they dont say IF you are a good defender or not. I also think AGE has alot to do with picking player X vs Y
December 1st, 2009 at 3:02 pm
Kermit The Washington says:
LOL this is a trap.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:02 pm
weezy f says:
WTF i do not need to do math on a basketball site! down with math
December 1st, 2009 at 4:21 pm
kevin k says:
whoever chose Boozer over Amare is a retard. Zach Randolph avgs close to 20/10 like Boozer. So I guess teams should select Zach over Amare based on stats.
December 1st, 2009 at 4:24 pm
kevin k says:
Pardon me, I don’t think Zach is avging close to 20/10 this year but he did put up those # when he was with Portland and NY.
Also Boozer is just like Elton Brand when he was the Clips. Both avg around 20/10 and plays very similar. Look at Brand now.