D-Wade, CP3, Joakim Noah headline Dime’s Midseason All-Defensive Teams
Dwyane Wade (Photo. Jeffery Salter)
Late last night I was watching Rick Pitino weekly Louisville coach’s show — one of my favorite things about having 264 sports channels — when Pitino made a great point about defensive mentality.
Essentially, Pitino said, there are guys who get upset when they miss a shot, but aren’t nearly as bothered when they get beaten off the dribble. “We’re not going to be a good team until it bothers us more to get beat defensively than it bothers us to miss a shot,” he said.
If you ask me, that pretty much sums up what makes a great defender on any level of basketball.
Always a defense-first guy myself — I grew up admiring Big John Thompson’s Georgetown squads, Detroit’s Bad Boys, Gary Payton, Jason Terry, Reggie Geary, Greedy Daniels, Scottie Pippen, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Muggsy Bogues — I figured since everybody has been talking NBA All-Star picks this week, the players making their mark on defense deserve some shine. Here are my ‘09-10 midseason All-Defensive teams, West and East:
WEST
G – Chris Paul
G – Ronnie Brewer
F – Shawn Marion
F – Kenyon Martin
C – Marcus Camby
Bench
G – Thabo Sefolosha
G – Kobe Bryant
G – Shane Battier
F – Martell Webster
F – Ron Artest
F/C – Tim Duncan
C – Emeka Okafor
EAST
G – Dwyane Wade
G – Andre Iguodala
F – Gerald Wallace
F – Josh Smith
C – Joakim Noah
Bench
G – Kirk Hinrich
G – Rajon Rondo
G – Stephen Jackson
F – Luc Richard Mbah a Moute
F – LeBron James
F/C – Kevin Garnett
C – Dwight Howard
* Why isn’t the reigning Defensive Player of the Year — and likely front-runner for this year’s award — starting on this squad? Because as spectacular as Dwight (13.2 rpg, 2.6 bpg) is defending the rim, Noah (12.1 rpg, 1.7 bpg) has actually been better defending the paint and stopping opposing centers one-on-one. Noah is also better at staying out of foul trouble and conserving his fouls for the fourth quarter.
* Rondo and CP will get criticized by the “Just because you get a lot of steals doesn’t mean you’re a good defender” crowd, and true, I have seen Rondo on the receiving end of some severe buckets lately; most notably from Derrick Rose and Jamal Crawford. But look at it from a football standpoint: Defensive backs who gamble for interceptions may not be the best man-to-man defenders, but those one or two picks are game-changers. Rondo and CP can win ballgames and change momentum with their quick hands and ability to play the passing lanes.
* Just as winning teams typically get multiple All-Stars, the League’s top defensive teams have multiple players here: Charlotte (1st), Boston (2nd), the Lakers (8th) and Chicago (13th). The Hornets (19th) are the only team in the bottom half of the points-against category with multiple players. The Cavs, Blazers, Thunder, Spurs and Magic — teams ranking 3rd through 7th in points allowed — are also represented. Detroit is the only team in the Top-10 without a rep.
* Voting for the All-Defensive team at the end of the season often plays out like NFL Pro Bowl selections on the offensive and defensive lines: Reputation counts for too much. Don’t be surprised if LeBron, KG, Kobe, Duncan and Dwight are almost-unanimous first team All-Defensive picks, even if other guys in their own conferences made more of a defensive impact.
January 29th, 2010 at 10:12 am
Chicagorilla says:
come on Austin, Noah? as much as i love my city, no f^king way in hell should Noah ever been called a defender. Do you understand how many games the bulls have lost because he couldn’t stop mediocre centers like Roy Hibbert, Al Horford, Greg Oden. I mean come on. Just take him off the list please. Re-do it like ASAP
January 29th, 2010 at 10:16 am
AdvancedMind says:
As a DIEHARD Bulls fans i must say Noah in way shape and or form should be on this list period. If you watch actual games, you will see he is bullyed in the post and CAN NOT grab high traffic rebounds. The Clippers game is a perfect example when Camby grabbed 27 rebounds and Noah had 7!!!!! Sure he has a VaJay Jay quality in that he will hustler more then your regular lazy big to get an offensive rebound. I have watched SHITTY Kendrick Perkins actually score in the post on Noah…
STAS DO LIE!!!!!!!!!
Im actually gonna leave you alone for Kobe being on the west list… SMFH
January 29th, 2010 at 10:16 am
Chicagorilla says:
No = one of the worse one-on-one defenders in the NBA. He couldnt’ stop a highschool 6′7 center. Carl Landry, Dajuan Blair, Ryan Gomes, all these guys were GIVING IT TO HIM and are shorter by 3-5inches. Tyrus Thomas and Kirk Hinrich are out best defenders. Taj Gibson is a better defender.
And for the life of me I can’t understand how Dwight Howard isn’t the #1 center. I never see him getting $hitted on. Never.
January 29th, 2010 at 10:19 am
AdvancedMind says:
Actually to be real with you he would get shitted on even worse if Tyrus wasnt back there helping out on the weak side..
Put D-Howard at the center slot and replace Noah with Tyrus.. Who actually guards players from the 5 down to the 2.
January 29th, 2010 at 10:22 am
QQ says:
um, lebron james is the best or second best defender in the league. He shouldn’t be on the list. You suck AB.
January 29th, 2010 at 10:59 am
gogetit says:
You guys are nuts and clearly dont understand basketball. Noah has been GREAT all year. On the defensive end, he alters almost every shot in the paint. He’s 2nd in the L in rebounding, and up there in blocks, too. He plays harder than any Center in the league. His energy rubs off on teammates and elevates their games, as well. Open your eyes fellas. Noah definetely belongs on this list.
January 29th, 2010 at 11:07 am
Heckler says:
Martell Webster made the list?
hmm…..is this some more nepitism?
January 29th, 2010 at 11:15 am
b says:
you grew up a fan of defense but no love for hakeem? oh well, to each his own.
i like the idea of putting tyrus on there instead of mbah a moute. tyrus missed some time but he has to be the only player in the league who has had a 6 steal and a 6 block game.
January 29th, 2010 at 11:21 am
Dre Day says:
Rajon Rondo is a good defender ok yes he gets a lot of steals but teams set a lot of picks on him and other guards in the league so that opens up a lot of lanes 4 the other teams point guard 2 score or pass think about that people
January 29th, 2010 at 11:26 am
Chicagorilla says:
@gogetit…tony jones or whatever you call yourself
what f^king games have you been watching for the Bulls.
alters shots? rebounds? Rebounds don’t mean $h!t if you can’t grab the ones that count. Noah only hustles when it benifits Noah, not when it benifits the team. You probably don’t know enough about basketball to understand that. Noah also has been $h!tted on by EVERY CENTER/BIG MAN the bulls have played this year, and I know cause I watch EVERY GAME. I’ve done this list before, but here it is off the top of my head
Duncan
KG/Perkins
Jermaine Oneal
Andrew Bogut
Shaq
Boris Diaw
Nene/Kenyon Martin
Dalembert
Chris Bosh
Jason Thompson
Andrew Bynum
Greg Oden/Lamarcus Aldridge<–Oden had Career high
Carlos Boozer/Millsap
that rookie from det and Ben Wallace
Brook Lopez
Al Horford/Josh Smith
David Lee<–career high
David West/Emeka Okafor
Roy hibbert
Dwight Howard
Kevin Love
Marcus Camby
Carl Landry/Louis Scola
Segre Ibaka
and when he wasn't get thrown around under the basket by the bigs, he was not covering the weakside or "Altering shots" and letting the like of Monta Ellis, Steph Curry, Russ Westbrook, Johnny Flyn, Caron Butler, PP/Rondo, Kobe-Odom, Charlie Bell,BJ,Redd, Ray Felton, B-Roy, CDR, Wilson Chandler, and a host of other guards/forwards get lay up after lay up because he was more so looking to get a rebound instead of putting himself out of position and try to alter the shot or get a block. He's str8 a$$ and just happens to be all we got at Center other than Brad Miller.
January 29th, 2010 at 11:26 am
AdvancedMind says:
@6
Yes he has energy, and after that you basically have no idea what your talking about, Jay Williams grabbed rebounds and not at anytime during his playing carrer was he accused of playing Defense. Check the stat lines when Noah is up against opposing centers, his blocks are against guards, coming from the weak side, never gets blocks on the man hes defending. He is Anderson Vajay jay with a little more athletic ability, more playing time, and instead of flopping for a charge Noah will go for a block.
January 29th, 2010 at 11:36 am
Rafa23 says:
how is ron artest on this list? he hasn’t been defending above average all season. him getting in there is all name, not performance.
January 29th, 2010 at 12:03 pm
Name (required) says:
Being a good defender isn’t just about blocks and steal, its about understanding the concept of team D, understanding how to take your man out of his comfort zone, not allowing good position and forcing tougher shots. A guy might average 2.5 blocks a game, but that guy might also get thrown into the air by every pump fake.
Noah is one of them guys who has crazy energy but limited intelligence.
January 29th, 2010 at 12:07 pm
Name (required) says:
also, swap Lebron for Jerred Jeffries, chase down blocks are nice an all….. but JJ cant even make layups and is in the court for 30 minutes a night.
January 29th, 2010 at 12:16 pm
Octopus Jonny says:
Can Andrew Bogut get some love here?
January 29th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
LakeShow84 says:
One things Noah is good at is showing and recovering on the pick and roll.. He plays good pick and roll defense.. His defense is more of a team overall tpye thing cuz he does bring a lot of energy and its contagious..
Put it like this Bulls fans.. he aint got no offense so hes out there for a reason..
January 29th, 2010 at 12:51 pm
control says:
Like I said yesterday, great defense is about forcing low percentage shots, not about getting blocks or steals.
F – Kenyon Martin
Bench
F – Ron Artest
C – Emeka Okafor
EAST
G – Dwyane Wade
G – Andre Iguodala
C – Joakim Noah
Bench
G – Rajon Rondo
G – Stephen Jackson
F/C – Kevin Garnett
Are these guys really deserving of being on an All Defense team? With KG being injured and just getting shitted on for the winning basket last night…not sure if he deserves to be on the list at this moment. Since when is SJack a lock down defender? I haven’t watched him play for awhile, but has he suddenly decided to play at both ends of the court since he came to the BCats?
January 29th, 2010 at 12:51 pm
Chicagorilla says:
@lakeshow
His “fake” hustle is not contagious. Tyrus and Kirk have doing that $h!t long before Simba came yelling out of U of Florida.
I will agree that his pick-n-roll defense may be better than Dwights and most centers because he is quicker. Does he still get merked under the boards? Hell yes! His positioning for defense is avg at best. His lack of strength (which I don’t understand since he looks waaaaay bigger now, mayb 250bls) gets him bullied by bigger and sometimes smaller opponents. Watching Caron Butler drive baseline and bump Noah out the way as he reverses to the other side for a dunk is a prime example. Noah’s energy is FAKE HUSTLE, and please don’t be fooled by it. There are several occasions where he is walking down court on defense and gets out of position and gets beat. He’s not lazy, but like I said before, his hustle is to benifit his stats, it’s not to win the game. Tyrus on the other hand is busting his a$$ all game long, doing anything he can on defense to stop the other team from scoring. And has been overlooked for doing so by DIME and all the other media outlets.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
BiG ShoT BoB says:
@Chicagorilla – How do you explain SECOND leading rebounder in the league. Even if he was horrible at rebounding what does that say about every other player in the league accept one.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
Chicagorilla says:
@BSB
not sure what rebounding has to do with defense…you must be a NBA2k developer, they seem to think so too…but anyway
Noah does grab rebounds because of his timely hustle. He will chase down loose balls (no pun intended), and there is not a GUARD he can’t rebound over. Not one! As for bigs, you’re a spurs fan right? Well did you see the way Djuan Blair was beasting him all night (8 offensive rebounds i think in the first half alone)? Blair knows how to carve out space for himself in traffic. He is what you would call a great rebounder with a great motor and true hustle.
Noah can’t do that (and I would love for him to start..SOON) what Noah does is rebound the ball when the other team has already conceeded the rebound and no one bothers jumping with him. that apparently happens 12 timex a game. Not once will you see Noah box out someone, hold them off as they are fighting and pushing him, then snatch that board from that big mans hands. Noah ain’t built for that. Maybe his hands are small or something. Tim Duncan, Shaq, and Dwight are perfect examples of what Noah needs to learn to do.
Noah capitolizes on these things because he knows stats will get him that dollar dollar bill yall. If Vajayjay got $50mil, how much you think Noah gonna try to get next year? exactly.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:32 pm
Austin Burton says:
@control — I know KG got beat last night, but if you watch Boston’s entire team defense when he was out and then after he came back, the difference is night and day. KG makes such a difference as the QB of that defense, communicating and moving everybody around. This has been a down year for him, which is why he’s on the East bench, but I couldn’t make the team without him.
As for S-Jack, he’s been getting after it on D whenever I’ve watched Charlotte play. They have the No. 1 defense in the League, thanks in large part to Crash Wallace, but S-Jack has also been big for them.
K-Mart has been fantastic. For example, late in the last Nuggets/Cavs game, they put him on LeBron for some big possessions down the stretch and he got stops. He’ll spend most of the game guarding the opposing PF, but in crunch time they’ll put K-Mart on the star player.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:34 pm
Leroy Shonuff says:
Noah is alright…he just needs to tryus to help out…But to say that Steven Jackson just decided to play both ends of the floor is flat out dumb. Dude has been doing that since san an…that’s why they wanted to keep him soo bad over manu…plus he was basicially playing the 4spot in golden state and running the point. Steven Jackson is the Most underrated player in the laegue by FAAARRRR…and lebron is all flash on d too.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
Austin Burton says:
@Chicagorilla — I won’t claim to have watched as many Bulls games as you, but every time I’ve seen them play, Noah has been the defensive lynchpin. He just held Duncan to 15 points (6-14 FG) and got some big stops on him down the stretch when they beat the Spurs. He held Al Jefferson to 12 points (5-13 FG), David Lee to 13 points recently. Against L.A. he had 20 boards and 6 blocks and helped limit Bynum to just 11 points while Gasol only had 10. You’re right, Gibson and Tyrus are a big part of the defense, but Noah has been the defensive spark.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
Leroy Shonuff says:
also…why is Jason Terry on this list…like what does he do on defense besides get loose balls they for some reason count as steals…he is below average at best…
January 29th, 2010 at 1:54 pm
BiG ShoT BoB says:
@Chicagorilla – Ask any basketball professional and they will tell you rebounds are a defensive stat. The reason is if you played a team took the first shot missed and I got every rebound after that for the rest of the game you wouldn’t score again. Sort of like time of possession in football. If I get more def rebounds it means stopping you from getting an offensive rebound thus another shot at the basket. If I get more offensive rebounds it means another shot your not taking and another shot I’m taking. From the words of Kobe “If you can rebound you can win anywhere…here Mars it doesn’t matter.” BTW I’m a Dubs fan.
January 29th, 2010 at 2:00 pm
mess says:
yeah those one or two picks off gambles are game changers (paul and rondo), but what about the gambles that don’t pay off, and the offensive team gets an easy bucket?
January 29th, 2010 at 2:07 pm
Austin Burton says:
@Leroy Shonuff — You must not have seen Jason Terry when he was younger. Remember, I grew up in Seattle, so I’ve been watching him since high school. JT was a BEAST on defense in high school and at Arizona.
January 29th, 2010 at 2:09 pm
control says:
AB,
You are probably right on those counts, I will admit I haven’t watched SJack since he switched to the Cats, and rarely watch the Nuggets lately.
KG IS the glue for the Celt’s defense, even if it’s just his barking at other team’s pgs, but physically I’m not sure if he’s “there” yet. He might not even get “there” this year, which would close Boston’s championship window pretty good.
January 29th, 2010 at 2:13 pm
Leroy Shonuff says:
@ Austin…
I get that you watched him in high school and arizona, but lets not forget that AI was big east defensive player of the year. Being a great defender in college or high school doesn’t translate into being a good nba defender. Jason Terry is not a good nba defensive player. If that was the case, then Jason Capal would be in the nba along with Alvin Jones who played for Georgia Tech in the early 00’s. He’s just not that good on d.
January 29th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
barons beard says:
blocks and steals don’t make someone a great defender. LBJ blocking 6 foot zip guards lay-ups and floaters don’t make him a great defender
January 29th, 2010 at 2:19 pm
Austin Burton says:
@Leroy Shonuff — I never said Terry was a great defender in the NBA. And I didn’t put him on my All-Defensive Team. I just said that I grew up watching great defenders like (young) Jason Terry, which is why I appreciate defense now.
@barons beard — True, but you can’t deny that LeBron is a defensive presence. Any player that goes for a layup or a floater against Cleveland is thinking “Where’s LeBron?” Plus when he puts his mind to it, LeBron will shut somebody down.
January 29th, 2010 at 3:05 pm
Chicagorilla says:
@Austin
You’re better than that man. You are quoting me stat lines from recent games while we are on a winning streak and when Tyrus was actually doing all the work with a little help from Brad Miller and Taj and Noah.
Did you check the games without Tyrus against those same guys?
lets see:
Duncan- 28pts 16reb, 13-19FG!!! In 34min! lmao, but bulls did win
Noah had 10pt 10reb
Vs. Minn
Love – 9pts 10reb (3off) in 22min
Jefferson – 12pts 8reb(3off) in 26min
Tyrus (3blks) was there which only helps prove my point . Also this is the game Johnny Flynn jumped over Noahs back to tip dunk on him. Yet another case of him not being a good rebounder
Noah had a good game, 20pts 9reb, but Tyrus was doing all the shot blocking, while Noah had 0.
Vs. NJ
Brook Lopez- 25pts 10reb(5off) 9-14FG!!!
Josh Boon – 6pts 10reb (5off) 28miun
Noah – 7pts 9reb, 5blks 41min played clearly he wasn’t blocking Lopez’s shot, lol
Vs. NY (@NY)
David Lee- 18pts 21reb (5off) 8-13FG!!!
Noah – 10pts 21reb…again no defense and gave up high % shots yet again.
Vs. LAs Bigs
Bynum- Bynum only plays 24min but gets 11pts 8reb in that span..
Gasol 24pts 13reb(7off) on 9-15FG (side note:artest had 4 off reb and Bynum had 2)…bulls lose by 15 but it was worse than that
also see, check these other games:
Vs. Port
Greg Oden- 24pts 12reb<–6 off reb
Lamarcus Aldridge- 24pts 13reb
Joel Przbylla 3-3FG 8pts 3 reb…bulls lose by 24 and
Noah has 7pts 8 rebs 5 fouls
Vs. Boston (oct)
In a blowout loss, the starters didn’t play many min
Sheldon Williams- 10pts 10reb in 24min….nuff said
vs. Mil
Bogut – 22pts 15reb 4blks(5 off) 10/19FG
Naoh had 16pt and 17 reb, but we are talking defense and his man also hit the game winner
Vs. Denver (at home)
Nene- 11pts 12reb(5off)5-7FG!!!
Kenyon Martin – 15pts 10 reb
Noah had a good game with 12pts and 21reb but that didn't stop Nene and Kenyon
Vs. Tor
Bosh – 25pts 12reb (7off!!!) 9-12FG!!!!
Nesterovic- 12pts on 6-11FG in 20min
Noah- 9 pts 7reb
Vs. Golden State
Andris Biedrins – 9pts 7blks 19reb(5off) 4-5FG.
Noah- 4pts 16 reb, 2-10FG bulls lose by 17 to an undermanned and under sized G-state team
I’ll stop here as I’ve already proved my point with stats and analysis.
January 29th, 2010 at 3:07 pm
Chicagorilla says:
@Bitch tits bob,
now you are just trying to argue without having a real point.
January 29th, 2010 at 3:08 pm
AdvancedMind says:
@BSB
Rebounding is a very small part of defense, if i play great on ball defense and make you miss shots or alter your shot to make you shoot a lower percentage shot, or if i dont even let you get the ball im playing good defense. Not if i limit a team to limited 2nd chance shots, so rebounding would be more of a team thing. Id rather have a guy who boxes out great and grabs 8 rebounds a game then a guy who cant box out for shit but grabs 12 a game.
January 29th, 2010 at 5:15 pm
Kevin says:
Trevor Ariza, Monta Ellis, Tyrus Thomas?
January 29th, 2010 at 6:40 pm
the cynic says:
is Dime going to claim CP3 is the defensive player of the year again? His defense is at least as crappy as it was last year so he should receive the honor again this year
January 29th, 2010 at 6:44 pm
the cynic says:
Kendrick Perkins should be on this list. I can’t stand the guy, but he is arguably the best post defender in the league
January 29th, 2010 at 10:48 pm
Austin Burton says:
@Chicagorilla — OK, I’ll give you this much: David West is DESTROYING Noah as I’m writing this.
February 1st, 2010 at 4:46 am
leeroy says:
No Nene? Hmmmm…
And also, as great as CP3 is at reading passing lanes and taking advantage of slower players with his quick hands, his on-the-ball and help defense is nothing special. Not to mention how is frequently abused by “let’s just back down Paul as far as we can and then shoot over him” strategy.
February 1st, 2010 at 9:43 am
Chicagorilla says:
@Austin,
Its not that West was destroying him, it’s HOW he was destroying him. Noah gets bullied by smaller players let alone bigger players.