Chris Kaman replaces Brandon Roy on All-Star roster
Monta Ellis must be pissed. Presuming the biggest reason he was left off the All-Star team was the Warriors’ sorry win-loss record, hearing the news that Chris Kaman of the almost-as-sorry Clippers is making the squad as an alternate is a tough pill to swallow — especially considering Kaman, a center, was named to replace Brandon Roy, a guard like Monta.
Over the weekend, it was announced Roy (hamstring) would be out through the All-Star break. Seeing as Chauncey Billups was just named to replace Chris Paul due to his knee injury, it would make sense that B-Roy would also be replaced by a guard, leaving Monta — the NBA’s sixth-leading scorer at 26.2 ppg who just dropped a career-high 46 on the Mavs last week — and Aaron Brooks as the two strongest candidates.
But Kaman was the player considered the biggest overall All-Star snub in the West when the rosters were originally announced. Charles Barkley has continually hyped Kaman as the best true center in the West, and his 20.2 ppg and 9.0 rpg present a strong case.
Was Kaman the right choice to replace Roy?
-->
February 8th, 2010 at 2:50 pm
AllThatJazz/Amar says:
tweet from @johnhollinger just now: Sorry folks, choice of Kaman over Boozer is completely indefensible.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:51 pm
AllThatJazz/Amar says:
I think Kaman is a deserving all-star, myself, just wanted to put out what hollinger just tweeted
February 8th, 2010 at 3:00 pm
APhill says:
Yeah man thats bullshit. Monta really deserves that spot.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:02 pm
bbgun says:
hes good but wtf is he a replacment for a guard??
plus monta has been a fuckin beast all season long
February 8th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
Ross says:
johnhollinger sucks ass. he’s an anti-spurs stat geek. The PER is absolutely useless. Anyway, Congrats Chris!
February 8th, 2010 at 3:22 pm
steven says:
Chris is a good choice. Monta is a moped driving whinny baby.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:23 pm
dagwaller says:
The Warriors are 7.5 games behind the Clippers, who at this point last year had only won 12 games (21 this year – a 9 win swing). Meanwhile, the Warriors are the 3rd worst team in the LEAGUE, only 2 losses “behind” Minnesota for the second worst team in the LEAGUE. Considering they’re about to play the Mavs, Clips, and Lakers, the title for worst in Western Conference could conceivably be theirs by the end of the week. The Warriors had 3 more wins a year ago today than they do now.
So, despite the Warriors having a “stud” rookie, Monta Ellis has “led” his team to 3 fewer wins than last years paltry total at this point. The Clippers, despite having lost their own #1 overall pick, are 9 wins better already than they were last year. Sorry, Austin, but the team’s record MIGHT have something to do with Monta not getting in. It also might indicate why Steph Curry isn’t/shouldn’t be getting as much ROY buzz as he otherwise might.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:27 pm
Austin Burton says:
@dagwaller — A sorry team is a sorry team, and the Clips and Warriors are sorry. Wasn’t it last week where the Clips lost to the Nets AND T-Wolves back-to-back? The Warriors haven’t done anything like that. Plus Kaman has a better supporting cast: Baron Davis, Camby and Gordon vs. a G-State team with with zero interior presence and Maggette as the 2nd-best player.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:33 pm
sa says:
also the clippers are winless without Kaman in the lineup. a little more valuable than ellis i think….
February 8th, 2010 at 3:39 pm
Mike says:
Good pick. Ellis is overrated.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:44 pm
Diego says:
Come on AB, there is a difference between a team with a losing record (the Clips), and a sorry-assed, next-to-the-worst record in the league (once Minny inevitably passes them in a few weeks), train wreck of a team–the Warriors.
It would be a complete joke if Monta were named to the team. Dagwaller nailed you on this. If anyone should be upset, it should be someone like Boozer or Landry.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:55 pm
Austin Burton says:
If the Warriors were a train wreck because of Monta, I could maybe get behind that. But he can’t control his coach, his team’s injuries, his front office, etc. Kaman has been putting up good numbers for a bad team just like Monta, only Monta’s numbers are better and his team isn’t that much worse. You can’t pump the Clippers up like “They’re not that bad” when they just lost to the two worst teams in the League. Plus, did the All-Star Game just get better since they replaced Roy with Kaman? No, it became less entertaining.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:58 pm
AllThatJazz/Amar says:
so the asg is all about entertaining? where’s skip to my lou and white chocolate?
February 8th, 2010 at 4:07 pm
TL says:
^^ Yes. I agree.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:09 pm
AllThatJazz/Amar says:
if the jazz are 3rd in the west by the asbreak then shouldn’t they have had 2 all-stars? (isn’t there some unwritten rule with how these are dolled out, like explaining how wally world was an all-star)
February 8th, 2010 at 4:14 pm
Austin Burton says:
To an extent, yeah, the All-Star Game is about entertainment. That’s why the fans get to vote in the starters. The game doesn’t count for anything serious.
The best reason to take Monta over Kaman is that you’re looking to replace a guard (Roy). Basically Kaman wasn’t good enough in the eyes of fans or coaches to unseat Amar’e and Gasol, but now that a guard is hurt, Kaman became good enough to get a big man’s spot? Doesn’t make sense. Replace a guard with a guard, unless it’s an extreme circumstance where there’s a big man who’s absolutely killing it. And Kaman isn’t absolutely killing it.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:20 pm
Name (required) says:
is he now the official ugliest all star of all time?
Monta should have been pickd, fuckit, jason kidd should have been picked or Tony Parker or Brooks, the ASG needs more guards. It IS about entertainment, and guys like Kaman make it crappy and boring.
guys like white chocolate and skip would have for much better all stars than jamal maglour.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:27 pm
RonNation says:
Considering 2 of the spots are up for any players the fact that he is replacing a guard is irrelevant.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:50 pm
s.bucketz says:
they need to stop rewarding guys for crying about not gettin picked…it happened last year with mo williams and now wit kaman??im officially stating that i belong in the league…maybe ill get a 10 day contract
February 8th, 2010 at 5:32 pm
dagwaller says:
Haha Austin, I dunno. You’re not complaining too much that your boy Z Bo made it even though his Grizz aren’t in the playoffs. He has a supporting cast similar to Kaman’s, too. I don’t see a Dime article on Gerald Wallace making it “from a sorry team” – the Bobcats are 24-25, only a few games better than the Clips. Chris Paul, voted in at PG even though his team is out of the playoffs? No problem there? Or how about D Wade? His spot, like CP’s, is untouchable…even if his team is currently 3 games under .500, sliding out of playoff contention.
You’re right, a sorry team is a sorry team. But Monta is on one of the worst teams in the League. You’re right, he does have a weaker supporting cast. I wonder if a guy playing with no one on his team that, by virtue of his position, will end up dominating the ball, will also end up with a ton of inflated stats. I guess the coaches agree.
February 8th, 2010 at 5:53 pm
Diego says:
AB: RonNation nailed it: 2 spots are for wild cards, so who cares if Kaman doesn’t play same position as Roy?
And please look at Golden State’s record and the Clips’. Golden State IS much sorrier. A loss is a loss–it counts the same in a team’s final record. Good teams (I’m not really saying the Clips here) often lose to sorry teams because they don’t get up for them–plus this is the NBA! Every team has good nights (well, maybe not N.J.). A Clips loss to Minny (which is a better team than Golden State) or in contrast to Denver or Cleveland impacts the record just the same. You should have stuck with an argument for Aaron Brooks here.
If Monta were on a real nice team, his stats would be much weaker–he’d probably be a hired gun off the bench, like Jamal Crawford or JR Smith. (Not to bash Crawford or Smith–Crawford is at least Atlanta’s third most important player (behind imo JJ and Josh Smith).)
February 8th, 2010 at 5:54 pm
b says:
I still think Marc Gasol got robbed. He’s playing for a relevant team but you know they wouldn’t throw two dudes from the griz frontcourt on there.
How long until we see a US vs the World set-up for the all-star? that would be entertainment, you could see some contrasting styles and even put a little pride on the line.
February 8th, 2010 at 5:56 pm
swiss chocolate says:
Monta is getting shafted because of his attitude in the begining of the season.
His numbers are in the same category as Dwayne Wade’s.
Kobe and Shaq both said he should be an All Star. Probably the only thing they’ve ever agreed on!
Shaq said he was a special player. Special players deserve to be in the all star game.
February 8th, 2010 at 6:21 pm
dagwaller says:
b – I’m down. For the past 5 years or so, I’ve thought that the International team could bring it.
C – Pau/Marc Gasol/Bargnani/Okafor/Dalembert (maybe reaching on those 2)
PF – Dirk/Horford
SF – Gallo? AK-47? Deng? This was a lot better 5 years ago haha.
SG – Manu? Hedo? Ditto on the 5 years ago thing.
PG – TP/Steve Nash
February 8th, 2010 at 6:28 pm
Gabriel Brogden says:
Nash, Dirk, Pau, and now Kaman – That makes 4 for our pale skinned brethren!
Any way you slice, Kaman is one of several on the West who deserve it.
He either benefitted by 1-His Pandering 2-Affirmative Action (haha, jk) or 3-He Was Next In Line
Prob a lil’ bit of all 3.
By the way, we won’t miss ONE guard. Fill it in with Kaman. He’s happy. His fans are happy. It’s all good. Monta could’ve arguably been selected. As well as Brooks. But Kaman lobbied and I think that may have helped him.
February 8th, 2010 at 6:45 pm
dat dood says:
for all the monta haters. almost all of the warriors relevant players have been injured all season. they have four d leaguers on the squad. i don’t care who you are, you’re not winning games with a roster of 7 active players, and 3-4 of them are d league call ups. watch any warriors game, they are in it in the first half and alwyas lose in the 2nd half because they have no energy left due to an injury depleted bench. Monta is nearly impossible to guard, and has improved his shooting this year. If not for monta the warriors would be getting blown out of games by 30 every night.
February 8th, 2010 at 7:21 pm
Austin Burton says:
I didn’t say guys from losing teams — Wade, Wallace, etc. — shouldn’t be All-Stars (BTW, Memphis and New Orleans are above .500), but if it comes down to one spot between two guys from losing teams, don’t use one losing team’s record as the tiebreaker. The Warriors and Clips are two of the worst teams in the League, period. If you want to give Kaman the spot because individually he’s more deserving, fine, but the “His team is better” argument is weak.
Also, why does everyone keep saying guys on bad teams have “inflated” stats? If anything, it’s harder for Monta to do what he does since defenses know he’s one of the only threats on the team. They can key in on him, whereas if he played for a team like Boston you couldn’t focus the whole defense on him.
February 8th, 2010 at 7:27 pm
Austin Burton says:
@Diego — If Roy was one of those “wild card” spots, then you’re right. Unless the logic is that, if Roy wasn’t a wild card, his removal bumps the wild card guard (let’s say Deron) into an official “guard” spot, then opens up a wild card spot.
Either way, bottom line is I think Monta should have been the pick, and he would have made the game better. Kaman will put up 4 points and you’ll never remember he was there.
February 8th, 2010 at 7:35 pm
MadSammyboy says:
This was the right choice. Kaman has been solid for the last three seasons (when he hasn’t been injured), and he’s arguably the best true center in the west. His rebounding and shot-blocking numbers would also be much higher if he didn’t have to compete with Camby for boards and swats. Ellis is a fugazi- a stats-first player who hurts his team intangibly, despite seemingly impressive numbers.
February 8th, 2010 at 7:40 pm
ballin says:
@Austin
Actually, Monta DOES have inflated stats.
Golden State runs the fastest pace in the entire league. They average more possessions than ANYBODY, including even the Suns. That means anybody playing on Golden State is going to put up more shots than they would anywhere else, and obviously, average more points.
Next, Monta is averaging about 42 minutes a game!!! Of course his stats are beefed up when he plays more and has more possessions than just about any other player!
If you adjust for team pace and playing time Monta’s scoring is much less impressive.
I think it’s inarguable that Kaman was the bigger snub, but if you think that Roy should’ve been replaced by another guard I won’t really disagree with that. That’s fair.
But the fact of the matter is, Boozer should’ve gotten in over Kaman anyway.
February 8th, 2010 at 7:51 pm
Austin Burton says:
So if his points come within the course of the game, how are they inflated? What does “inflated stats” even mean, anyway? Monta plays a lot of minutes and takes a lot of shots; so does Carmelo Anthony and Kevin Durant. It’s not like an absurd amount of Warriors games go into overtime or something. Whatever Monta does within 48 minutes is just as legit as anybody else in their 48 minutes. To say his stats are inflated implies there’s something abnormal about Golden State games. They play against 5 defenders in a 48-minute game just like everyone else. It’s easy to say “What if he played for a slower team?” but consider that if a slower team had Monta, they might play a little faster.
February 8th, 2010 at 9:28 pm
dagwaller says:
All I’m saying with team records is that when you say something like, “If his team’s record was the problem, he has a right to be pissed” – it implies that you’re saying the Clips are just as bad as the Warriors, which is just plain false. Warriors = one of the worst teams in the league. Clip = in the bottom third, but only barely. I think that they have the 20th best record, or 21st.
The thing is that Monta isn’t the only threat on his team. There are a few threats (Morrow, Curry, Maggette). He’s just the one that starts with the ball most of the time. Monta is second in the league in FGA – coincidence? I don’t think so. It’s like Baron Davis told him how to play. The next Warrior to show up on the top 100 shot jackers is Corey Maggette, at 52. And that’s in the “fast paced” Warriors system. Crazy.
February 8th, 2010 at 10:22 pm
Austin Burton says:
The Clippers are one of the worst in the League, though. While they’re only eight games under .500, they’re also one of only two teams to lose to the Nets and Wolves (the two worst teams record-wise); the Knicks being the other. 12th place in the conference, nobody is worried about them making the playoffs, and L’s to the worst of the worst: If that doesn’t qualify the Clips, what does?
February 8th, 2010 at 11:22 pm
dagwaller says:
A.) I understand how ridiculous it is that we’re arguing about the record of the Clippers and the Warriors.
B.) The Clips have beaten the Warriors, Boston, Portland, OKC, the Lakers, AND Chicago. Five playoff teams, including the past two champions, not to mention the other team in question. Do you have the stat on “who’s beaten both the Lakers and the Celtics this year? Is that a long list? No?
February 9th, 2010 at 12:03 am
johnsacrimoni says:
By the way I don’t get this logic that Kaman has such a great surrounding cast. Eric Gordon has been OK but not nearly as good as I thought he would be at this point. And Baron Davis and Marcus Camby are the two most overrated players in the league.
February 9th, 2010 at 1:36 am
Jay says:
Wow. It seems like the only ground AB has to stand on in his argument is that the Clips lost back to back against bottom feeder teams. The Clippers have also beat the Celtics and Lakers, and thoroughly pounded the Warriors in their only meeting thus far.
Bottom line is, you have to look at the OVERALL standings, and a 7.5 game difference is A LOT.
Another thing to consider, just because Monta puts up big numbers doesn’t mean AS MUCH as other players simply because he plays on a run and gun team and arguably the worst defensive team in the league. The Warriors give up the most points in the league and put up the 3rd most. That equates to a lot of possessions and a lot of shots going up. Kaman is doing what he is doing with the Clippers scoring 11.5 ppg less than the Warriors.
Also, the Clippers obviously rely heavily on Kaman. Sure they don’t win that many games (still more than the Warriors), but they haven’t won a single game when Kaman has been out of the lineup (6 games).
Lastly, the stats between the players is about a draw. Kaman beats Ellis out in FG%, rpg, and bpg, while Ellis wins in ppg, apg, and spg. No big diff. The bottom line was the standings, and 7.5 games makes a difference.
February 9th, 2010 at 1:38 am
Jay says:
BTW do you seriously not know the concept of inflated stats?
Are you saying the pace of the game makes no difference on the outcome of the stats? Teams scoring 115 ppg running on every possession doesn’t create more offensive opportunities every night?
February 9th, 2010 at 2:20 am
imungloloupaw says:
@austin seriously dude, are you really gonna use the “lost to both the nets and wolves” argument? how long is the list of teams that have beaten both the lakers and the celtics?
February 9th, 2010 at 2:57 am
Austin Burton says:
I think the concept of inflated stats is a flawed concept, one of the biggest myths in basketball. People believe it’s easy to put up numbers on a bad team, when in reality it’s harder in many cases. People think that teams who run are constantly moving 100 mph and that it cheapens somebody’s numbers if they play in a fast system, and it’s simply not the case. It’s not like just any old group of 12 players would score a lot of points in Golden State. The system isn’t bigger than the players.
February 9th, 2010 at 3:08 am
imungloloupaw says:
@austin
Even if your argument is valid (still not convinced though), Kaman’s stats are still comparable and arguably better than Ellis’. dude still averages 20, 9 and 1.5 on 50% shooting in a team where he has marcus camby to compete for rebounds and blocks. ellis averages 26 points and 2 somethig steals on 46%.
February 9th, 2010 at 3:18 am
Austin Burton says:
Here’s a question: Has there been one memorable Chris Kaman moment this season? I can think of at least a few “moments” from Monta that I’ll remember and that helped define this season: 46 pts vs Dallas, shutting down B-Roy and scoring 35-36 of his own, scoring 37 on Boston in a win, 45 on Indy, 42 on the Spurs one day after playing 48 minutes to beat Dallas almost by himself.
Can’t say the same for Kaman. What was his best game this season? What was his signature moment? When did you see a Kaman stat line and say, “I need to make sure to see that highlight”? I think that kind of stuff matters. (Also, for whoever said the coaches obviously felt Kaman should get the spot, Stern chooses the alternates, not the coaches.)
Both guys are putting up All-Star worthy numbers, I’m not arguing that. But my problem is people using the “Kaman’s team is better” argument to swing the vote his way when both teams are bad. It’s not like Kaman plays for Denver or Dallas.
February 9th, 2010 at 4:36 am
dagwaller says:
What was Al Horford’s signature moment this year? These players aren’t flashy, no. They’re consistent. Just as an illustration, Kaman has scored in the single digits just once this year, vs 3 times for Monta.
Furthermore, isn’t a Center there to rebound? Kaman is 11th in the league for Centers rebounding. Monta Ellis, a (cough) Point Guard, is 14th in the league amongst PGs in Assists per game.
I don’t think either’s team is good, I just think that Monta Ellis can thank his selfish play, his selfish demeanor, and his team’s resulting poor record for not making the All-Star team.
February 9th, 2010 at 5:21 am
Austin Burton says:
It’s not about being flashy, but about establishing yourself as one of the best/defining players of this particular season. As for Horford, because I follow the Pacers I won’t forget him dropping 25-19-5blocks on Indiana, but he doesn’t really work to make your point because I didn’t think he should have been an All-Star.
Monta is a combo guard, you know that. So tell me where he ranks among two-guards in assists, or among PGs in scoring…
February 9th, 2010 at 6:00 am
flegman says:
“Monta Ellis must be pissed.” Because of the injury to his knee.
February 9th, 2010 at 1:07 pm
jt says:
THe guards can only blame Pau Gasol for taking Kaman’s spot in the first place. Pau didn’t play enough games to be an all star at that point when they voted. He was only averaging around 16pts comparing to Kaman’s 20pts and having played a lot more games. Pau got Kaman’s center spot.
If kobe doesn’t play, Tyreke Evans should replace him. Ellis scores a lot but he plays for Nellie. Also, that would set up the path for the superstar that Tyreke is gonna become. Cause we all know that Ellis is not going to be someone that will be a star like Reke.
February 9th, 2010 at 2:07 pm
brado says:
Kaman was chosen to provide some diversity. They needed to add a lack of color to the roster.
Honky be trippin’!