Latest News, NBA / Feb 26, 2010 / 10:30 am

Where does Kobe rank among basketball’s all-time greats?

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Kobe Bryant (photo. Chris Sembrot)

“And now, the rest of the man’s legacy is on the line. Is Kobe a Top-10 player of all-time? Top five? We’ve created a glass ceiling wherein nobody can touch Jordan, Russell, Wilt, Magic and Bird — and often but not always, Oscar, Jerry West, Kareem and Doctor J — that Kobe is threatening to shatter.

“Why not? Kobe has more rings than Bird and more buckets than Magic; he’s better defensively than West, better offensively than Russell, more clutch than Wilt. His flair for the dramatic is exceeded only by Jordan.”

Dime’s Austin Burton wrote that in this month’s Kobe cover story, and it’s an argument that will only grow more intense and complicated as Kobe breaks more milestones and (possibly) wins more championships. You can go on for days: Isiah Thomas and Hakeem Olajuwon won more ‘chips as “The Man” on their respective teams than Kobe; Tim Duncan has more League MVP’s and just as many rings; Moses Malone and Steve Nash also have more MVP’s; Alex English and Dominique Wilkins scored more points; then Shaq and Charles Barkley have had their accomplishments, stellar as they are, bolstered by fan-favorite personalities — an X-factor which may hurt Kobe’s legacy down the road. And on, and on, and on…

Some say he’s already the best L.A. Laker of all-time, but where do you think Kobe will finish his career ranked among the greatest players in basketball? Or, if he retired tomorrow, where does he rank right now?

Tell us, and we’ll run some of the best answers in an upcoming issue.

(Dime reserve the right to edit submissions for length and clarity.)

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  • b

    even if he gets more rings than jordan he won’t be better than him, as he lost already 2 finals series with arguably a better supporting cast than jordan had. jordan never lost a finals series EVER! scoring champ for 7 seasons straight, 6 finals mvps, 5 reg season mvps… he’ll finish top 10, but not top 5. he’s not even close to jordan okay a little close if he gets equal or more.

  • Jerry K.

    @scott

    You an idiot. Let me see Shaq win those title with Andre Iguodula (a good player, but in no way kobe) type player on his team instead of a d-wade or kobe….No way he gets his 4 rings…Just look at what he did in orlando..Laid an egg…And duncan really? Kobe and Tim have the same amount of rings, but kobe also has the greater accomplishments in terms of stats..The only possible credible thing you said was that Lebron will move ahead of kobe, which in this rate , looks like a real possibilty…But first he needs to win 2 rings before we can talk about that…

  • QQ

    @ scott:

    Damn. People always say Shaw won the titles. Flashback: Let’s say Shaq didn’t have one of the best shooting guards at the time by his side. Do they win? Ummm. No. They won’t. The three peat didn’t happen because of Shaq. It happened because of Shaq and Kobe.

    PS: People forget about the simple fact that Kobe was 2nd team All NBA, 2nd team All NBA and 1st team All-NBA during the three peat. DAMMIT. It’s not like that he was just some role player in Shaq’s Laker World. He’s essentially the BEST SG in the L during those years. And people say it’s Shaq who won it alone? DAAAAAMNN.

  • sh!tfaced

    Except for tennis and masturbating, nobody wins it alone…

  • got beef?

    kobe bean bryant, right now, isnt a top 5 player, if he retired today he wouldnt even be better than shaq, and yall know that

  • old guy

    @101 kobe had a better supporting cast than jordan?

    jordan had one of the best players/perimeter defender in pippen, one of the best shooters in kerr, one of the best rebounder in rodman, and one heck of a sixth man in kukoc

  • spk2629

    @ Yoooo:
    Wow, loved the way you put it down on ‘em! I feel that Kobe gets one of the worst reps in the league and it’s a shame. Ball-hog —- sure, but I would point out that most transcendent players are —- that’s why they are highlight reels, and clutch. Pass if you can get a better shot / higher %, but when the game is on the line, who do you want heaving one up @ the basket: MJ or Rodman? Kobe or Luke Wallace? The difference is that in these two examples one player is the consummate pass-first teammate, the other is the nucleus of their success. I love Bill Russell, great guy and talented but let’s not forget that his opposing players were munchkins on the court with a giant. I can go down to the rec center @ 6’5″ and drop 40 & grab 30 rebounds playing against 4th graders… C’mon, lets be both realistic and objective, and while we’re at it, lets give credit where credit is due.

  • Ian

    jerry k
    hahahahahahahahaha
    kobe over duncan
    hahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahaha
    check you stats before blasting out crap 4 titles as the man vs kobes 1
    2 mvps vs kobes 1
    3 finals mvps vs kobes 1
    who holds the record for most allnbas and defensive allnba to start career in a row??? not kobe take a guess.

    you know duncan won a ring without another allstar in his team??? you know duncan shaq and kobe have been the best 3 players this decade and that duncan had to play kobe and shaq together?? the only way that matchup is fair is if duncan had orlando tmac on his team and he still won 4 times.

    so what stats other than shooting more does kobe have over duncan?? please dont post about things you dont know.

    fallo
    somepeople consider him the goat

  • Ian

    jerry
    you know that after shaq left the lakers kobe has one title to duncans 3

  • Jerry K.

    @IAN

    Your truly an idiot. I said greater accomplishments in terms of STATS, not in terms of MVPS or anything.And duncan didnt have no all-stars on his teams?? Really?? What do you consider David Robinson,Manu, and tony parker?? Yes, maybe they werent all-stars the year he won some of his rings, but they have been all-stars, which in turn makes them ALL-STARS!! IDIOT!!

  • David N.

    I understand some of us are not too fond of Kobe’s personality, but we must be objective when we talk about his abilities as a basketball player. I’ve seen many a NBA player and if you include the total package, skills and intangibles, he finishes second to Jordan. Granted, the way he behaves serves as a detriment to his popularity as a person and will be the reason he will never be the polarizing figure Michael Jordan was, but nonetheless, the game is played on the hardwood and if we look soley there than there is no question he belongs in the Top 5 if not second place (when his career is over).

  • Ian

    jerry
    hahahahahahaha u r the best dime poster since doug

    stats over accomplishments??? again what stats other than scoring??? rebounds ??? blocks ???
    fool stats over accomplishments for an alltime list

    so by your logic karl malone is the second greatest player ever and reggie miller is top ten

    and yes you damn idiot when duncan won in 03 he did without allstars hahahahahaha you count robinson in 03 as in 95 and parker the man who used to get benched in the 4th for speedy claxton. go away and dont ever post here god damn idiot.

  • Ian

    the sad part is that for a guard kobe can barely out assist duncan.

    you acted all surprise when someone said td over kobe and came up with stats to back your argument now how stupid is that kobes resume is not near duncans gtfoh. i guess allan iverson should be over duncan also since his scoring stats are awesome.

  • Ian

    i just read again your allstar logic it must be awesome to spend a couple of mns inside that head of yours by your logic duncan in 03 won with 3 allstars ?? because manu and tp would eventually become allstars and robinson was one lets thow out the admirals 8 and 8 avg that season right??
    im done with u fool

  • Drewskeelove

    You know what is really amazing?

    How hard people try to diminish Kobe’s greatness. I mean, some of you act like he had sex with your wife or something.

    I’m sorry that your own pathetic lives are terrible, but being passive aggressive is a very negative trait to possess.

    Anyway, when it is all said and done, Kobe will be No. 1.

  • sh!tfaced

    ^^^ Well, we may have had sex with Kobe’s wife or something but your clearly sucking Kobe’s cock… LOL

  • http://none Carlos

    If Kobe wins 2 more championships hes definitely in the top 5, he should have had at least 3 mvps by now if not for dumb voting. As in a personality, I was a Kobe hater, but you have to acknowlege the best player of our time, sorry Lebron you will the the best player one day but now is still Kobe’s time. He is the closest thing to Michael Jordan we have seen. He will pass down as the 2nd best shooting guard in the history of the NBA only behind Jordan. Kobe is ranked higher than Duncan because at the end of the line what is more important? Fundamentals or hitting another gamewinner and leaving with the W? Duncan is a great player and winner but he isn’t as clutch as Kobe. Kobe probably has the best clutch in NBA history

  • QQ

    ^ he actually said Kobe had sex with OUR wives, not the other way around.

  • sh!tfaced

    ^ Oh. LOL. My bad. Same shit ’cause it still doesn’t change the fact that he’s cocksucking on Kobe’s dick.

  • blue

    my list
    wilt ( avg 50 points and 25 reb in a season & led the league in assist one year
    jordan
    oscar
    magic ( even though neva won without kareem
    the dream( second best center)
    shaq( even though he played with the best gaurds in his era or swing men
    kobe (will move up after career over really the best since mj)
    bird ( great stats, great player but not better than the above)
    isiah (my best little man) scoring. passing and heart

  • Leoni

    Jordan did cocaine?

    His father was killed because his gamble debts?

    He cheated on his wife? So did tiger, and nobody except them both have something whith it. The guy is filthy rich, young, woman all over him…

    C’mom…hate the game not the player

  • JAY

    @Ekstor
    I don’t know who you are quoting… but most of your points are WRONG. Here are your quotes, followed by my rebuttals.

    You: [* Back when Wilt hit 100, both teams were committing intentional fouls over the final minutes to help Wilt get to 100. Kobe had no such assistance and actually left the game before the final buzzer.]

    - In another game, Wilt scored 60 points in a 12 minute span on his way to 90. And that wasn’t near the end of a game so nobody was “helping him get 100″.

    [* Wilt’s 100 was mostly off a series of free throws and close-to-the-rim baskets… as mentioned by someone else, Kobe’s shots were mostly jumpers… in general it’s much harder for perimeter players to get huge numbers than a dominant big man]

    - Two questions for you… Who was the last dominant big man to lead the league in scoring? Now how many guards led the league in scoring over the last 50 years?

    [* Wilt needed at least 10-15 more shot ATTEMPTS to get his 100 (I think Wilt took over 60 shots whereas Kobe’s shot total was somewhere in the 40s)]

    - Yeah, of course. He scored 100… that’s 19 pts more than Kobe. Hypothetically speaking, “Player A” scores 5, “Player B” scores 24. Who would you expect to take more shots??

    [* Wilt played in a game that was much faster paced… ]

    To my knowledge, the 24 second shot-clock was invented in the 70s to speed up the game. Not to slow it down.

  • JAY

    Shit, disregard my first point in the above post. That was a high school game. I’ll go sit in a corner now.

  • TR

    Eh. Take away handchecking and Jordan could probably have gotten 100 easy.

    Jordan
    Russell
    Magic
    Bird
    Kareem
    Wilt
    Oscar
    Duncan
    Dr J
    Moses
    … and Kobe is there somewhere with LBJ, Dirk, KG, Malone, West, Barkley, Pippen, Stockton, Baylor, Hakeem

  • http://king kingsto n

    wats up kobe u my favorite player in da nba nd i like ur team nd my bra like u

  • JAY

    @kingston…

    WHAT!?! You should check your keyboard. It looks like you have some sticky keys.

    Your bra likes kobe?

  • eazy yeezy

    i dont care if russell won 100 championships. he was a glorified, more decorated ben wallace and that is fact. he wasnt nearly as gifted as wilt- just luckier. put wilt on those celtics teams and watch what happens. no chance he was better than kareem, hakeem, robinson or even ewing. shaq in his prime would of engulfed and destroyed him. dwight’s pure athleticism would of been too much for him too.

    kobe is better than bill russell. as is everyone in that “untouchable 10″ list.

  • JAY

    @ Eazy…
    You must have have seen him play since you have such a strong opinion of him. Wilt, Oscar, Kareem, Jerry West, Cousy, all say he was a great player and they give reasons to why they consider him great… So he’s great.
    Or maybe they’re all wrong because you know better. They should apologize to you.

  • Vonislav Waferdenko

    To me, these are the players who, if you said they had better careers than Kobe, I wouldn’t argue with you:

    - MJ (duh)
    - Magic (duh)
    - Bird (duh)
    - Russell (11 rings… 11)
    - Kareem (achievements + winning)
    - Shaq (dominated the league when Kobe was already in his prime)
    - Duncan (consistency, winning as top dog)
    - Wilt (personal achievements too ridiculous)

    Let’s just look at three factors alone – 1. Career achievements, 2. Rings, 3. Skills and abilities. I cannot put West or Oscar ahead of Kobe because they neither won more than Kobe already has, nor do they surpass Kobe in terms of what they can do on the court. And Kobe has more rings, AND better individual achievements than Hakeem.

    So to me, Kobe is already, very legitimately, in the top 10

  • eazy yeezy

    look i’m not saying russell wasnt a great playe- its clear that he was. but the fact of the matter is that he spent a majority of his career playing in an 8 team league loaded with 6’4 white guys playing center who are the modern day equivalent of jason kapono. he was the very epitome of a big bully, playing on the ONLY talented team in the entire nba. the talent disparity was utterly ridiculous. the guy came into his ROOKIE year playing on a team featuring 6 future hall of famers! the only player from that era who was comparable to russell was wilt who torched him in their one-on-one matchups. wilt detractors like to point out that his team would often lose the game..but even jordan couldnt beat the bad boy pistons when he was playing them 1 on 5.
    when someone wins 11 championships while playing on the only talented team in a league that struggled to bring in 10 teams…yes- i have to call them overrated.
    (and at 6’9, 220–if you think russell is guarding shaq..youre dreaming)

  • http://yahoo james

    We as fans of the NBA will not appreciate Kobe until he’s no longer with us on the court. I believe it’s your College play that builds up your greatness and that’s how Magic, Michael, Bird, etc. became the best. We actually saw them get there. They did’nt just show up. These guy’s earned their status. Kobe will go down as one of the good players of the NBA. But a Bill Russel, or a Jerry West i don’t see that. He Can play but is he really a special player?

  • EN FUEGO

    @eazy
    WTF? Just another Laker fan giving his “expert” opinion. Wilt was 7″1′ 275 and was just as strong and fast like Shaq and without the fatass. You must be really that OLD to have such an opinion. Dumbass.

  • eazy yeezy

    shaq was 7’1 and 350 in his prime with the lakers. youre crazy if you think russell is shutting that down. shaq would dominate him and it wouldnt be close. russell is simply the product of an era- which he completely dominated and there isnt anything wrong with that. but i dont think he’s comparable to nba big men who have played over the last 25+ years. its the same reason george mikan (a laker!!) isnt in this conversation at all.

    and btw.. i’m 21 (not old), a bulls (not lakers) fan and am most certainly not a dumbass.

  • old school

    people under 50 shouldn’t even vote.
    kids think kobe and shaqs top whatever.
    top top players are dominant.
    they don’t get swept like their first five playoff series, or whatever it was w shaq. watch the tapes-wilt dominated the paint in the all star game even. on defense he was incredibly quick and long and strong and they didn’t keep track of blocked shots or it would be a joke. and kareem-sky hook, good. you kids don’t know, sorry.

    I feel sorry for you kids-the ol school guys were actually better. kareem and wilt the most unstoppable guys, shaqs not even close at the end of the game. same with kobe, one of the greatest scorers ever-as good as Jordan even, maybe, but not every game. Jordan and Bird were It everynight. Kobe has nites where he doesn’t have it.
    Kobe’s great but he’s not as great a force as people here think. If you think you’d rather have Kobe than Bird, you didn’t see Bird.

    Kobe’s not as good as Jordan or Magic or Bird. Or Wilt or Kareem or Bill Russell. Magic’s better than Oscar and much better than Kobe because he’s Magic, and could step in and dominate at center as a Rookie! I saw them play and against each other. It doesn’t matter what his final stats are. Kobe needs to dominate the playoffs, every 4th quarter this year to even get in the argument. And to this point Barkley, among others may have been better. He could score alot of points, but not like kobe. But he could guard Shaq if necesary, and same Bird could pull down 20 boards easily, was unbeliebably clutch on both ends. Kobe’s good though, amazing really and still has time to make a bigger imprint, if he were to dominate the next few years. He does seem to still be improving.

    BTW, where does this leave kevin durant?

  • michael anthony

    Kobe is definitely ranked among the very best like MJ and Magic johnson.

  • katie koo

    kobe is not better than bird not nearly not ever and not in your dreams

  • Adam

    Kobe’s 45% field goal percentage makes his status as top ten questionable. His status as a clutch performer is more mythical than actual since his shooting percentage on last second shots is relatively average (around 30%). He won 3 championships when Shaq was the MVP and leading the entire league in efficiency so he obtains Pippen status with those 3 titles. He won 1 title with Gasol but Gasol is no slouch either and statistically could give Kobe a run for best Laker on the team (Gasol was ranked 7th in efficiency when Kobe was 10th).
    Kobe is moving up the all-time scoring chart but has taken more shots to get there. Kobe is 12th all-time in field goals taken but 16th all-time in field goals made. All those extra shots have got to count against him.

    Comparing Bird and Bryant.
    Bird better shooter (fg, 3 pt, and free throw)
    Bird better rebounder
    Bird better passer
    Bird better defender (blocks, steals, defensive rebounds)

    Bryant has averaged more points per game but takes more shots (not always a good thing). Bird also played til he was 35 which lowered his career averages. Bryant’s scoring might decrease these next 4 years as well.

  • Adam

    1st Tier MJ, Kareem, Wilt, Russell
    2nd Tier Bird, Magic, Shaq
    3rd Tier Duncan, Oscar, Dr. J

    Kobe would be 4th Tier with the likes of Stockton, Malone, Robinson, Olajuwan, Barkley, Garnett, Nowitzki

    Kobe’s 1 MVP, 1 Finals MVP, and 2 scoring titles is hardly in the same ballpark as the top 3 tiers.

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