Create-a-Two: Building the Perfect NBA Shooting Guard
For the first time during this Create-a-Player series, I thought one man might combine everything I’d want from his respective position. I think you know who it is.
But let’s pretend for a moment that Michael Jordan is not the perfect two-guard. Actually, let’s just state it as a fact. Reggie Miller was a better three-point shooter and (brace yourself) just as clutch as MJ. Kobe Bryant is a better ball-handler. George Gervin was a little more smooth and graceful. Allen Iverson is faster. Jimmy Jackson was stronger. Clyde Drexler was just as good of an athlete as Mike, if not more athletic. Or maybe I’m just reaching.
Either way, while it would be easy to just crown Jordan as the prototype, we can all be a little more creative than that. As always, take into account size, abilities, specific skills, mindset, and other intangibles.
Using only THREE past or present SG’s to put in a blender and combine their best (or worst) traits, create your perfect shooting guard …
Also check out…
- Building the Perfect NBA Center
- Building the Perfect NBA Power Forward
- Building the Perfect NBA Small Forward
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March 4th, 2010 at 8:35 am
what? says:
This is just stupid.
March 4th, 2010 at 8:37 am
life-p says:
MJ – Defense
Kobe – Offense
Reggie Miller’s Shooting
March 4th, 2010 at 8:51 am
Kermit The Washington says:
MJ’s (1996-1997) defense, mental and physical strength
Kobe’s (2006-2008) offense, clutchness, athleticism
March 4th, 2010 at 9:02 am
jay says:
i would go mj’s post up game..kb’s ball handling..reggie outside shooting..ai’s speed..need anymore..i doubt it!
March 4th, 2010 at 9:07 am
Matt says:
MJ: crazy competitive, athleticism, post moves (post ’95)
Iverson: speed, durability
Ray Allen: shooting, work ethic
March 4th, 2010 at 9:07 am
Knicksfan84 says:
MJ period. Is there really anything more perfect than him???
March 4th, 2010 at 9:13 am
RC says:
I thought Dime would skip this article, I love the other one’s like creating the perfect sf or pf or center. But this is not needed.
Michael Jordan is and will always be the perfect shooting guard. End of story.
Kobe Bryant will be always second to perfect.
March 4th, 2010 at 9:15 am
karizmatic says:
I’m just not that creative, Michael Jordan is the only guy you need at the two, first off it’s debateable how much faster AI was than MJ in his prime. It’s also debateable how much you really need effective three point shooting if you have Jordan’s game. Since it’s likely that such a player would shoot more 3′s than he really should and have a lower shooting average than Jordan did for his career…I believe MJ’s was something like .497 for his career. Just look at Kobe he has more range than Jordan did and shoots a worse percentage because his shot selection is worse.
But I suppose if you could take Michael Jordan and give him Ray Allen’s shooting (I prefer his shooting to Reggie’s) and Allen Iverson’s speed and handles (I prefer his to Kobe’s) then you’d not only have the perfect shooting guard you’d have the perfect basketball player.
March 4th, 2010 at 9:15 am
Chaos says:
MJ
Kobe
Reggie Miller
all three are hyper competitive, 2 a stellar on D, all three are deadly on O, very athletic, very durable, proven winners
If using more attributes
MJ: competitveness, post skill, Defense, offense
Reggie: 3 point shooting
Kobe: strength, offense, comptetiveness, passing
Vince: Athletic ability(come the fuck on, he jumped over a 7 footer)
AI: speed, fiestyness
March 4th, 2010 at 9:27 am
Heckler says:
Michael.Jeffrey.Jordan.
March 4th, 2010 at 9:28 am
Nyeme says:
MJ & Ray
Kobe & Ray
MJ & Kobe
MJ had it all but range (and for those that never saw him play, he had NO range whatsoever). Kobe has the range, and everything MJ had, plus a better passer but sometimes he lacks the patience on the floor…if you nitpick. Ray is one one the greatest shooters EVER, and better than Reggie because in his prime he was a one-on-one player. So any 2-man combination of the 3. They are all disciplined players with tremendous work ethic and all are automatic inside the arc. They all could create their own shot and are clutch. 2 of the 3 are freakish athletes, 2 have ridiculous range and you wouldn’t leave open outside the arc, 2 have intimidating defense, 2 had superior ball-handling, 2 are the greatest finishers around the basket. But only Kobe is a true playmaker and a better rebounder.
March 4th, 2010 at 9:30 am
Heckler says:
lets just say for a moment we couldn’t include Jordan…then my 2-guard might look like this:
Clyde Drexlers rebounding and passing
Ray Allens shooting
Kobe Bryants defense and clutch ability
VS
Mitch Rock Richmond all around game
Reggie Miller 3pt shooting and clutch ability
John Starks heart and craziness
March 4th, 2010 at 9:33 am
sweetv0mit says:
make Lebron 6’6 with miller time touch and jesus shuttlesworth release
March 4th, 2010 at 9:36 am
Heckler says:
@ Nyeme–
Don’t be so sure about Kobe Bryant being a better playmaker and rebounder than Michael Jordan.
remember, Michael Jordan AVERAGED 8rebs AND 8assts in the same season! (maybe i think it was 1989 or 1990). and led the league in scoring that same season!
March 4th, 2010 at 9:38 am
Chicagorilla says:
Ok, Wait so we don’t pick Jordan.
Lets see.
Reggie Millers Clutchness
Ray Allen’s quick release
Allan Houstons form
Clyde Drexlers Durability
Joe Johnson’s size & Strength
Earl The Pearl Monroe’s Ballhandling
Joe Dumars Defense
Tracy McGrady’s (Tor/Orl version)Athleticism
Pistol Pete Marivich’s Passing & Creativity
Sheryl Swoopes Killer instinct
March 4th, 2010 at 9:42 am
sh!tfaced says:
1. Jordan
2. Kobe
3. Who Cares
March 4th, 2010 at 9:42 am
quick wit it says:
YOU’RE JUST REACHING.
please go read the bible- and by bible i don’t mean that testament bullisht, i mean bill simmons book of basketball.
…i almost screamed out loud when i read ‘more clutch’- the title of this article should have ‘NSFW’ in it
March 4th, 2010 at 9:42 am
sh!tfaced says:
Naw. Without using MJ and/or Kobe… its just too easy with those two.
1. Gervin
2. AI
3. Ray (close one over Reggie because you gotta at least have one shooting guard with a ring)
March 4th, 2010 at 10:00 am
Fraz says:
Whoever said Jordan had no outside shot and they saw Jordan play… I have to ask what game what you were watching. Jordan not settling for long jumpshots, and not being able to hit them is a different story. Jordan could shoot the 3 just fine. He just didnt make his living behind the 3pt line like some other players because he was a complete player. Stop the crazy talk please.
March 4th, 2010 at 10:03 am
Nyeme says:
@ Heckler – indeed he did, but I seem to remember, especially after ’90 that every part of the offense ran through Pippen. I don’t mean being an assist man, I just mean facilitating the offense. Not that he couldn’t do it, but playing with the ball, and off the ball AND directing the offense, I just think Kobe is better by a slight margin.
OK lets take Jordan AND Kobe out of this.
Ray- for my aforementioned in #10
Clyde – for athleticism, rebounding, finishing
Mitch – for his post game
March 4th, 2010 at 10:04 am
karizmatic says:
@ Nyeme
What is your definition of range? By the end of his career MJ was pretty deadly from 18 ft. He just wasn’t a 3 point shooter.
March 4th, 2010 at 10:12 am
karizmatic says:
And for people who think Kobe is really that much better of a shooter than Jordan from 3, I think Kobe’s career 3pt shooting is around 35%, think Jordan’s might have been 32 or 33 in either case neither is what you would consider a dead eye three point shooter.
March 4th, 2010 at 10:16 am
Heckler says:
@ Chicagorilla–
word. shouts out to you for putting in my main man Earl Monroe.
sheeeeeit. How could i forget about The Pearl?
SIDE NOTE:
btw…..
after “Magic”, ‘The Pearl’ is the next best basketball nickname ever. EVER!
long live the Pearl!!!!!
March 4th, 2010 at 10:17 am
Banga says:
1. Kobe – Heart, Will to win, Clutchness, Overall F Everyone Atitude, Defense
2. Vince Carter – Greatest Athlete at the SG Position. I don’t see MJ Jumping Over a 7 footer in a game the way Vince did.
3. Ray Allen – The Greatest Shooter of our generation. And yes he is better than Reggie Miller without a doubt
To Sum it Up Kobe’s Heart, Vince’s Body and Jesus’ shot the Greatest SG ever
March 4th, 2010 at 10:18 am
Royal says:
I hate how people act like Mj was perfect at every single aspect of basketball. Yeah he is the G.O.A.T but c’mon now let’s be real he wasn’t a better three point shooter than Reggie, he …….well that’s all I can think of but y’all get my point
March 4th, 2010 at 10:18 am
sh!tfaced says:
Create a two with powder…
Jerry West
Pistol Pete
Manu/Petrovic
March 4th, 2010 at 10:27 am
Celts Fan says:
MJ’s offense, defense, competitiveness, athleticism, Ray’s 3 pt. shooting, and AI’s speed.
My 1B here:
Kobe’s O, D, competitiveness, Reggie’s 3ball shooting, TMac’s size.
March 4th, 2010 at 10:27 am
Chicagorilla says:
@Jordan couldn’t shoot
My my, how soon we forget. Jordan after 1992 was pretty much a shooter to the core. By time he came back in 1996 that was 80% of scoring. Jumpers. There was not a better mid-range shooter in the game. And if any of you were smart, you would know that with Jordans ability, the mid-range jumper was the most efficient scoring option and made the most sense. Why do you think Melo, Kobe, DWAde, BRoy all shoot those same shots?
Also, Jordan was never a 3 point shooter because a 3 pointer is such a terrible shot to take. Especially with a hand in your face like MJ always had. DWade is a perfect example. Larry Bird (greatest shooter ever IMO) once said that he wished he shot less 3′s during his career because his FG% would have been higher and more efficient.
Let that sink in. If you still can’t understand that, then you must be Gucci Mane’s biggest fan.
March 4th, 2010 at 10:32 am
Trey bing bay says:
Kobe and Jordan are pretty much the same player.
So I would take Jordan, Iverson, Steve Kerr.
Jordan for obvious reasons. Iverson for his quickness ball handling. Kerr for his rebounding……i mean his mullet…..i mean his shooting.
March 4th, 2010 at 10:35 am
thrilla says:
gotta agree with chicagorilla just watch the double nickel game damn near all his shots were mid range jumpers in that one no clankers or shooters luck neither, all straight through the net
March 4th, 2010 at 10:37 am
ihateyouall says:
calbert chaney-drazen petrovic-harold miner
March 4th, 2010 at 10:49 am
sh!tfaced says:
Worst traits blender…
Nick Anderson’s “clutchness”
T-Mac’s/Redd’s “durability”
AI’s “leadership”
March 4th, 2010 at 10:50 am
cesar says:
jordan+miller+iverson
Kobe and Jordan are pretty much the same player. [2]
March 4th, 2010 at 10:56 am
bobby stew says:
Sprewell, Ray Allen, and Iverson
March 4th, 2010 at 11:06 am
i am a witness says:
Take the semen of James Jordan and combine it with Delores Jordan’s eggs……… and there u have it AUSTIN…. the Perfect NBA SHOOTING GUARD
March 4th, 2010 at 11:08 am
billy tim john says:
Michael Jordan of the Chicago Bulls
March 4th, 2010 at 11:13 am
Pig says:
MJ’s- killer instinct,body,post moves
Ray-Perfect jumpshot
AI’s-quickness,toughness
March 4th, 2010 at 11:30 am
rell says:
MJ – Offense, leadership, defensive, clutch shooting, drive to win, heart, ability to get to the line, post game, athleticism
Reggie Miller – 3 point shooting
Joe Johnson – handles, passing ability
March 4th, 2010 at 11:33 am
Mr. Brogden says:
Mid Range Silky Smoothness of Delonte
Dunking Ability of Vince
Swag of JR
Ball Handling of Stephen Curry
3-point Accuracy of Ben Gordon…
…or Ray
Crossover of young AI
Toughness and Tenacity of John Starks
Plus
a pinch of MJ
a smidgen of Kobe
March 4th, 2010 at 11:52 am
Shakers says:
MJ – defense, post moves, killer instinct, size, athleticism, confidence
Ray Allen – 3 point shot
AI – handle, durability
March 4th, 2010 at 12:18 pm
Nyeme says:
@ Karizmatic – I define range as 23′ on outward. 18′ ft is more midrange to me. Jordan stayed away from the 3, granted it wasn’t the greatest shot to take especially with the defense they played, but he definitely didn’t shoot enough to be considered a threat out there. But of course he would just take the lane to drive or the pull-up if he was left open. But the 3pt shot and long-range in general is important to the guards game in that it allowed the court to be fully used and opened up space for the bigs.
March 4th, 2010 at 12:19 pm
DLG says:
1.)Jordan, Kobe, D-Wade
2.) Reggie, Clyde, Jerry West
March 4th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
karizmatic says:
@ Nyeme
Ok if that’s what you mean by range then Jordan didn’t have it, but inside the arc he was a killer, and actually what you are talking about is much better accomplished by having what you refer to as a mid range game. You can do just as much offensively for yourself and others if you are a midrange threat as you can being a threat from the three point line. This is one reason Jordan was so deadly after about seven years in his career you had to respect his midrange jumper which means you had to play up on him or risk him dropping J’s on your head all day. The midrange jumpshot is also a shot you’re more likely to make. A 3 is a low percentage shot, therefore just by its nature you can respect it less. Only a few shooting guards in the history of the league….really I can only think of two Reggie, and Ray actually struck fear in people from behind the 3 point line.
But you can open up space with a midrange jumper if not more easily, just as easily as you can with a 3. In addition Jordan never played with any bigs of consequence so that wasn’t really an issue for him, but that’s a little off topic.
March 4th, 2010 at 12:48 pm
Chicagorilla says:
@Nyeme,
If Jordan wasn’t a threat from out there, then why guard him from there. Why not just sag off like they do Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, Magic Johnson, Avery Johnson, DWade, Lebron?
I don’t know how far back you go basketball wise, but there was no 3 point line when Jordan was growing up. Only the ABA had one it was considered to be a joke. College didn’t get one until like 1983 or 84. And the NBA didn’t have one til around the mid 80′s also. So why practice the 3 point shot.
The highest 3 point FG% for a career is Steve Kerr and that was around 45%… clearly showing you it’s not a good shot. Jordan shot nearly 50% for his entire career (over 50% as a Bull). Again, why shoot 3′s. Jordan has hit game winning 3′s and he also went 6 for 6 in the first half on a 1992 NBA Finals game. To say he couldn’t do it is absurd. He just didn’t think it was a good shot and because his basketball IQ is off the charts, he was smart enough to limit how many he takes and never put much effort into becoming a 3pt marksman.
Look at the all time leading NBA scorers…Jabbar, Malone, Jordan, Chamberlin, Shaq, Hayes…uh yeah, none of them are 3 point shooters. As a matter of fact, of the top 15 all-time, only 2 (Kobe and Reggie) of them are 3 point shooters.
March 4th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
DavMat says:
To built the perfect guard:
Reggie’s shot and energy and talking trash (U have to chase that guy for 40 damm minutes!)
Birds’s basketball IQ
Vince’s dunkability
Pearl’s ball handling
Nash’s court sense and assist. (Stockton only had to pass to Malone)
Dr J’s smoothness
Magic’s leadership
AI’s quickness
Microwave’s “I don’t need no stinking warmup”
Isiah’s ability to play thru adversity
Kobe’s D and selfishness
Wade’s willingness to sacrifice
Dell Curry’s shot readiness and quick trigger
There you go. The perfect player.
March 4th, 2010 at 12:51 pm
geoluhread says:
6’6 240
2000/2001 Allen Iverson will to win/athleticism
Tracy McGrady shooter mentality
Vince Carter dunks
game ober.
March 4th, 2010 at 12:53 pm
JAY says:
Please stop with these “Create-A-Perfect…” crap. Have we gone through all the positions yet??
I could say Yao’s height, Barkley’s brute strength, Iverson’s speed and agility, Reggie’s shooting, Rodman’s rebounding, Jordan’s killer instinct, Magic’s enjoyment of the game…. and be done with it. Put my dude at any position and he’ll kill everyone else’s suggestions. See how stupid these topics are??
Whoever came up with this crap at the Dime should be fired. Moving along….
#1 is the only post worth reading.
March 4th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
LakeShow84 says:
Lol @ Shitfaced
got anymore?? lol
Gimme Kobe anyday everyday.. Im a Laker fan so to me Kobe is the greatest SG of all time.. Screw MJ and his weak switch in midair to the left layup and screw his ass for taking that Finals from us..
Screw Michael Jordan.. but ill take his D over Kobes lol.. Kobe’s offense, MJ’s Defense, and gimme Kobes F the world attitude on the last shots..
March 4th, 2010 at 12:56 pm
geoluhread says:
i forgot to add Iverson handles.
March 4th, 2010 at 12:59 pm
Celts Fan says:
@DLG – what does Wade add to that 1st one of yours? He’s a lesser version of Kobe who’s a lesser version of MJ… (and I love Wade, but aren’t all 3 essentially the same player?)
March 4th, 2010 at 1:10 pm
sh!tfaced says:
@LakeShow… that’s about it. just having a little too much free time today… lol
March 4th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
POPPI GEE says:
Jordan for will
Kobe for instinct
Dumars for D
Hey are we going to create a perfect coach too ya gotta do that lol?
March 4th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
sh!tfaced says:
…and do a perfect 6th man too while your at it.
March 4th, 2010 at 1:26 pm
isotope says:
Next: the perfect NBA cheerleader
or
the perfect NBA fan
March 4th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
karizmatic says:
@ Chicagorilla
Can we really call Kobe a 3 point shooter? He’s shot like 35% if that his whole career. Why do people think that somehow qualifies him as a 3 pt shooter?
March 4th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
karizmatic says:
Kobe shoots a lot of 3′s but he doesn’t make a lot.
March 4th, 2010 at 1:56 pm
sh!tfaced says:
Perfect cheerleader would be a toss up between John Amaechi and Rodman…
March 4th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
JAY says:
Oh god!! Please guys… don’t give Dime any more wack ideas!!!
Here’s an idea… may have been done before.
Since March Madness is around the corner… Best All-Time NCAA team. Assemble Allumni… 5 starters +6th man… from any school and argue what school is best.
Come on Dime. This craziness must stop.
March 4th, 2010 at 2:16 pm
Ruhong says:
Some of the posts on FG% here are foolish. Of course 3pt FG% will be lower, THE SHOT IS FROM FURTHER AWAY. But are you forgetting it’s also worth 3 POINTS? INSTEAD OF 2? 50% FG% from the 2 = 33% FG% from the 3.
Jordan was god on the basketball court but he was a god not shooting 3s. 3pt shot is a legit weapon even if you don’t shoot in the 50% range. Sheesh.
March 4th, 2010 at 2:18 pm
JAY says:
For the above idea…. don’t consider their pro career. Example, Len Bias and Joe Smith are musts for Maryland… in my humble opinion.
March 4th, 2010 at 2:20 pm
JAY says:
Jordan made 3-pointers… just the old-school way. I wish there was a stat for and-1s. I’m sure MJ is among the all-time leaders. Especially with the calls he got.
So for those of you who said he didn’t make 3-pointers… I beg to differ.
March 4th, 2010 at 2:25 pm
LakeShow84 says:
@ Karizmatic
Kobe is in the 3pt record books in a couple of ways..
Please dont tell me you don think Kobe is NOT a 3pt shooter..
Yawwwwwwwwwwwwn..
March 4th, 2010 at 2:26 pm
LakeShow84 says:
You know what i mean lol
March 4th, 2010 at 2:33 pm
Mr. Brogden says:
Karizmatic, 35% is actually pretty good for a player that dominates on both ends of the floor.
“pretty good” might be a stretch – for an avg nba player but a guy who’s offensive versatility is bonkers, who has the ball so much, who exerts some much energy on defense, 35′s pretty good. Nonetheless, it’s “decent.”
If you’re hittin’ 3s at a 40 percent clip, then that’s “good.”
But Kobe has hit a lot of 3 pointers with hands in his face, end-game/crunch time pressure situations, and often while injured.
Stats only can tell you so much. You still gotta know the game. And quite frankly, knockin’ Kobe for hittin’ 3s at a 35 clip is nit picking on drugs.
March 4th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
JAY says:
@Lakeshow
I understand you’re a huge fan of his but Kobe’s not a 3-point shooter. He’s streaky from out there. Sure he hit 12 in a game, IMO that doesn’t make him a 3-point shooter. That title is reserved for specialists like Ray Allen, Reggie, Dell & Son, Dale Ellis, Korver. Guys that if given one inch of space, it’s cash. All day.
You consider Kobe on THAT level? No way. Kobe will drain them if you give him the shot and/or gets hot from outside. Any other normal scenario, that’s not his shot.
March 4th, 2010 at 2:49 pm
JAY says:
correction to above post… except for late game scenarios… You don’t want Kobe shooting fadeaway 3s. He’ll kill you.
March 4th, 2010 at 2:58 pm
karizmatic says:
@ brogden
I looked it up Kobe hit 34% ok? Jordan who everyone seems to think was a bad 3 pt shooter hit 33%. The fact is neither is a “good” 3 pt shooter. Sure Kobe can hit them, but if I were him I wouldn’t prefer the 3 pt shot to another shot. By comparison Ray Allen shot near 40% now that’s a good 3 point shooter, who had the ball in his hands just as much or maybe more than Kobe over the course of his career. So that point makes little sense. I’m not knocking Kobe for shooting 35%, but it’s not correct to say he’s such a great 3 point shooter. As far as the NBA is concerned he’s average at best. The 3 pt shot may be the only part of his game that is average, I would say it’s the weakest part of his game. That and the fact that since he too, believes he can shoot them because he’s in the record books, his shot selection is pretty bad.
@ Lakeshow
Just because someone gets hot and hits a bunch of 3′s in a game does not mean that they are a consistent 3 pt threat, otherwise we might as well say the same about Jordan when he hit his 6 threes or whatever.
@Ruhong,
So I guess you’re telling me you would rather Kobe or anyone else for that matter shoot 3′s all game as opposed to shooting the easier shot? Please.
All I’m saying is if you want to knock Jordan for being this supposed horrible 3 pt shooter, please be aware Kobe isn’t that much better a 3 pt shooter than him. Quite frankly I would be perfectly willing if I were an NBA coach to have Kobe shoot 3′s all game at 35%, except when the game is on the line and I’m up 2, and the same went for Jordan. Jordan just understood that limitation in his game a little better than Kobe does.
March 4th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
Chicagorilla says:
@Karizmatic,
Thanks for looking it up, I can’t at work. I also see that Jordan shot 42% one year from 3pt range. Apparently none of that matters. It stems from people wanting Kobe to be better than MJ at something. The only thing Kobe has over MJ is dribbling ability. He is more fluid off the dribble and can perform fancy crossovers and all that jazz. MJ, just didn’t do that. He was again, a more efficient ball handler in that he would never take a chance by performing all those moves.
March 4th, 2010 at 3:34 pm
LakeShow84 says:
Your right Kariz..
IM trippin.. people get hot and drop 3′s all day in the NBA..
ONCE AGAIN PEOPLE YOU UNDERESTIMATE HOW HARD IT IS TO HIT 3-4 3′S ON THE PROFESSIONAL LEVEL..
Just like cats acting like 10pts scored on the court aint shit in the NBA..
i cant believe you and Jay are really serious on this one.. but aye im trippin.. the STATS tell it all..
@ JAY
And half the guys u mentioned get lost on D.. Kobe dont get lost.. ALL his 3′s are contested.. dude might have ONE open look ina game (and ususally NOT) at the 3 line and it usually comes from a broken play..
How many of those guys you listed DOUBLE TEAMED at the 3pt line?? Not too many of them i imagine..
but aye im trippin run with the STATS peoples..
March 4th, 2010 at 3:35 pm
JAY says:
Brogden is the only person making sense in here regarding Kobe hitting threes. As I said early, Kobe is streaky from outside. Kerr, Paxson, Sam Perkins even are 3-point shooters. Not Kobe.
March 4th, 2010 at 3:38 pm
ProphetGK says:
Clyde, Reggie, MJ
March 4th, 2010 at 3:43 pm
Big V says:
Jordan cannot be considered the perfect 2 guard for the simple fact that there were, are, and will continue to be shooting guards that shoot better than him.
March 4th, 2010 at 3:46 pm
JAY says:
Lakeshow… I can’t argue with someone blinded by Kobe’s nuts but i’ll try.
Kobe get’s doubled outside because opposing teams don’t want the ball in his hands, NOT because of his 3point prowess. I bet if you ask an NBA coach, they’ll tell you the same.
As far as ALL his 3-point shots being contested, how can that be when coach and players alike are more concerned about his drive and getting into the lane than him shooting a 23-footer?? They must give him space to have a chance at stopping his drive. Sure the defender may have a hand up but that’s because it’s the NBA level.
Yes, the people I mentioned get lost on D. We’re not talking about D. We’re arguing about Kobe’s 3-point shot. Korver is a 3-point shooter but can’t play D. No shit. What’s your argument?? Fact is ALL the guys I mentioned are 3-point specialists. The specialists are the guys I label as 3-point shooters. To ME, just because a guy can hit the 3, doesn’t make him a 3-point shooter. They’re simply guys who can make it. It must be different for you. Go into a stat book and look at the guys shooting the same percentage as Kobe. I bet 90% of them you wouldn’t consider 3-point shooters…. but because it’s Kobe, you do.
March 4th, 2010 at 3:54 pm
karizmatic says:
Actually Lakeshow regular people like me don’t get hot and drop 3′s all day, but a lot of NBA players have gotten hot and dropped 3′s in the NBA. Tracy Murray once dropped 52 points in an NBA game largely off a hot shooting night from the 3 point line. Do you even know who he is? where is he? Jordan hit 6 in a half, Mitch Richmond, Michael Redd, John Starks, Dale Ellis, Dan Majerle, Steve Nash, Tim Thomas etc etc etc have all hit a bunch of 3′s in a game before. For an average person scoring a point in the NBA would be an accomplishment, for the average NBA player shooting 35% from the 3 pt line is actually expected. The fact that Kobe is in the record books says he’s a great player, but he’s not a great 3 point shooter.
But that aside I could name several players who don’t get lost on D who shoot better numbers from the 3 pt line than Kobe
Off the top
Allen
Miller
Stockton
all had better 3 pt percentages than Kobe…if I wanted to get deep into it I can name more. Kobe is not what you would consider a shooter, he’s a scorer, a scorer is going to be more effective shooting inside the arc than outside any way you slice it. You say run with the stats, as if the stats aren’t reflecting what’s happening on the court. You’re telling me Ray Allen had easier shots while he played at Milwaukee and Seattle, than Kobe did playing with Shaq? Come on man. I’m not saying Kobe sucks from the 3pt line but he is not an elite 3 pt shooter by any stretch.
March 4th, 2010 at 4:01 pm
money says:
combine mj’s D & midrange game with reggie’s trashtalk, energy, and range, combine both their competitiveness and clutch ability, and you don’t even need a third player to have the perfect 2
March 4th, 2010 at 4:09 pm
LakeShow84 says:
@ Kariz
So off the top of ur head you just compared Kobe to 3 straight HOF’s?? and 2 of your 3 are actually considered the top 3 point shooters in THE WORLD EVER..
so you compare THOSE guys.. Hmmmm thats good company i guess.. but thank you, you said it
“I’m not saying Kobe sucks from the 3pt line but he is not an elite 3 pt shooter by any stretch.”
So get off that shit and quit trying to make it sound like dude is even light weight streaky.. ive seen TOO many games where Kobe’s burned other teams from DEEP.. TOO MANY..
@ JAY
Your a goofy one sometimes dude.. you made it sound like Kobe is NOT a 3pt shooter and all im arguing is that he is a 3pt shooter..
Historically?? HELL NO.. i’d rather him stick with the midrange but you foos is on here trying to make it sound like Kobe is JoeSchmo from deep..
And thats shit is retarded.. plain R E T A R D E D..
And being a 3pt shooter or not Kobe has way more range than MJ period.. MJ was foul line and in (baseline2baseline) while Kobes is, at the very least (since his 3 is apparently broken according to some of you) 20ft and in..
IMO Kobe is more affective in between 15-20 with his J..
So you guys get it?? or am i still riding nuts??
March 4th, 2010 at 4:13 pm
LakeShow84 says:
Oh wait i forgot you were a spelling B champ in elementary JAY
i meant to spell affective, effective lol dont want you to waste a post..
March 4th, 2010 at 4:21 pm
karizmatic says:
@ Lakeshow
Did you read my whole post? I compared him to several other players who aren’t even going to sniff the hall of fame too, stop trying to twist my words to your advantage. Yeah Kobe is streaky from the 3 pt line that’s what it means when you’re a 35% shooter from there. Sure he has burned some teams from there, because when he gets hot it’s a problem, but I’ve seen him shoot his team out of at least as many games as he’s won shooting 3′s and yeah Kobe’s a hall of famer so why is his 3pt shooting percentage a good 3-5 points less than the other guys I named? The point is he’s not in their company when it comes to 3 pt shooting.
March 4th, 2010 at 4:24 pm
DavMat says:
@money
You got that right bro!
March 4th, 2010 at 4:24 pm
karizmatic says:
Oh yeah and you’re obviously a Kobe fan…Kobe more effective than Jordan between 15-20….that’s seriously debateable. But I never said Kobe couldn’t hit the three, I said he wasn’t a great 3 pt shooter and he’s not, by NBA standards he’s about an average 3 point shooter, if you were going to stack players up based on their 3 pt prowess, he’s a hair better than Jordan.
March 4th, 2010 at 4:26 pm
me says:
perfect 2 guard:
MJ pre-88: quickness, athleticism, ball handling (look it up)
MJ post-88: everything else.
Anything else and you’re building the 2nd best 2 guard.
March 4th, 2010 at 4:41 pm
Austin Burton says:
I’m surprised D-Wade hasn’t been mentioned more. But when you think about it, his best traits can all be topped by somebody else. Jordan made those same trick shots, Iverson was probably tougher, Kobe a better athlete … I will say that D-Wade may be the best ball-handler among the group.
March 4th, 2010 at 4:50 pm
karizmatic says:
@ Austin
I really thought about Wade for ball handling, but I went with AI because I could add his speed. lol.
March 4th, 2010 at 4:50 pm
LakeShow84 says:
@ Kariz
Like i said in my first post.. i damn sure aint a MJ fan lol ive just watched Kobes through most, wait scratch that, ALL his career..
So if ur saying dude cant hit 3′s.. then im going to have to STRONGLY disagree..
I didnt try to twist any of ur words either;
Off the top of ur head you named REGGIE MILLER and RAY ALLEN.. you automatically compared Kobe to the 2 of the best 3pt shooters in the NBA EVA..
So my point on the players you mentioned who aint going to sniff the HOF is those players get lost on D.. do i really need to say Kobe cant hold a candle to Reggie or RayRay beyond the arc?? he aint great from 3 but with all the attention dude garners PERIOD, everything he does on both ends, hes a good 3pt shooter..
And pppllleeeassee dont try to tell me MJ had just as much range as Kobe.. like i said..
MJ – 15ft and in he was money..
Kobe – 20ft and in he is money..
Not saying Jordan couldnt hit that range but we going off what they most EFFECTIVE @ right?? in 2006 when Phil would always set Kobes at the elbow, Kobe was LETHAL, like DAMN LETHAL (happens to be his 35ppg year if im right).. and that was only 15..
im just saying..
March 4th, 2010 at 4:53 pm
karizmatic says:
If I had wanted ball handling though I might have gone with Maravich.
March 4th, 2010 at 4:53 pm
LakeShow84 says:
@ AB
because he carries..
lol jjuuussttt kidddiinnggg..
March 4th, 2010 at 5:18 pm
karizmatic says:
Well my point with Ray was he garnered just as much if not more attention over the course of his career and still managed to shoot near 40% from the 3 pt line. I’ll maintain Kobe is an average 3pt shooter. 35% under any circumstances is average, you act like these other guys were shooting wide open 3′s their whole career. If Kobe could shoot 40% from 3 he would have. If you’re a guy like Ray who’s is known for 3pt shooting you don’t think he was getting just as much attention? That’s really the point. I would argue for the first part of his career Kobe got less attention because teams had to double Shaq.
I think your opinion about Kobe and MJ from 15-20 is debateable you might be right you might be wrong, what I do know is that if we compare career percentages Jordan shot .497 and Kobe is about .455, that doesn’t say Kobe is a better shooter. Also they pretty much were in the same offense and take most of the same type of shots…so your point there is questionable, but if you want to believe Kobe was better 15-20 that Jordan that’s on you. I don’t think reality backs that up.
March 4th, 2010 at 5:19 pm
Seven Duece says:
In what world is Reggie (ringless) Miller more clutch than Mike. Or Kobe. Or Lebron even. Come on, he had some big games against the Knicks, a few decent ones in a series against the Bulls and the Nets. Let’s not give him a lap dance for a good 5 year stretch that Steve Nash is easily topping right now.
March 4th, 2010 at 6:10 pm
LakeShow84 says:
@ Kariz
Ray Allens stroke is observed in bball laboraties around the globe for its beauty and fluidity.. MY POINT.. i KNOW Ray had more attention but still stuck 40%+ more of his 3′s.. thats why hes one of the best 3pt chuckers in NBA history.. but keep in mind Ray was Ray @ Uconn.. hittin 3′s all day.. Kobe EXTENDED his range on the fly in the NBA.. but like i said thats why Ray is who he is in shooting history..
But once again to say Kobe is an “average” 3pt shooter is nuts.. lets put it like this.. if you follow stats then Lebron is a equal, IF NOT BETTER, 3pt shooter than Kobe right?? who you want shooting that 3?? Kobes or Lebron??
who cares who’s wrong and whose right?? we all got opinions on here.. and trust me Im a diehard Laker fan (notice the name?) so i know everyone aint going to feel what i say..
But once again.. who cares??
March 4th, 2010 at 8:47 pm
karizmatic says:
@ Lakeshow
Kobe did not extend his range in the NBA he’s been shooting about the same percentage his entire career. Without lookng at stats I would guess LBJ is actually a worse 3 pt shooter than Kobe when I look I see LBJ is about 33% which is about the same, would I want either of them shooting 3′s? Not really…again neither are really great 3 pt shooters.
And yeah I know you’re a diehard Lakers fan you talk that Lakers love all over this site. It makes me no difference I’ve said before on here I’m a Lakers fan also, I just don’t let my love for the Lakers blind me.
March 4th, 2010 at 9:03 pm
Jay says:
@Lakeshow
I don’t recall anyone in here said Kobe couldn’t hit the 3. But on the other side, just because he can doesn’t mean he’s a 3pt shooter. At least I don’t consider him one. Like I said, I give that label to specialists. He’s definitely a threat from beyond the arc, and when he gets hot he’s dangerous. But when you argued that he gets double-teamed beyond the arc because of his 3pt shot, that’s just going a bit overboard.
March 4th, 2010 at 9:07 pm
Jay says:
Wow. I was giving Kobe more credit. Just for curiosity’s sake I looked at Kobe’s 3pt accuracy. 32%.
Whoa. Guys shooting at a higher clip than him. Antawn Jamison, Carmelo, Allan Iverson.
Before Lakeshow loses it on me (Lol), I’m not saying these guys are better then Kobe. I’m just posting it because these guys are threats from distance, but by no stretch of the imagination are they “3-pt shooters”. This is my point with Kobe.
March 4th, 2010 at 9:14 pm
LakeShow84 says:
@ Kariz
Well im blind on this one playboy..
@ Jay
lol we just cant talk about this..
AND TO THE BOTH OF YOU>> WHO GIVES A FLUCK REALLY LOL
Dudes hit his 3′s and he ESPECIALLY hits them when its all on the line.. i guess you could call that avg.. YEAH..
i guess we gonna have agree to disagree..
March 4th, 2010 at 9:16 pm
LakeShow84 says:
BUT FOR THE RECORD
@ Karizmatic
Kobe extended his range once he got into the NBA.. my bad for saying on the fly though (i now realize a lot of my shit is nitpicked) but in highschool he didnt really have treys.. he said it himself..
But then again he doesnt have them now right??
just sayin..
March 4th, 2010 at 9:54 pm
Jay says:
@Lakeshow
Lmao!! You right homie. We can’t talk about this man. Not over the net. My fingers are cramping. Hahah. i have a boy with the same opinions as you. We’re ALWAYS arguing about ball but he’s one of my closest friends. That’s the beautiful thing about ball. As you said, everyone has opinions. and the convos are the best when people, like us, express them right down to the end. Lol. Kudos to you. Even though you’re wrong. Lol. Just playin’. Hahaha.
March 4th, 2010 at 11:38 pm
Freezy says:
@ #7
Amen brotha
March 4th, 2010 at 11:40 pm
Freezy says:
oh and Jordan strength > Kobe strength…come on people
March 5th, 2010 at 8:55 am
LoBezn0 says:
Michael Jordan for all he was,
plus Ray Allen’s range and touch,
then Joe Dumars for more intangibles.
March 5th, 2010 at 9:10 am
BCap says:
Why are people so damn bias about jordan? he was great but damn, don’t you realize the guy couldn’t shoot threes? he wasn’t the strongest? ignorant bastards
March 5th, 2010 at 11:56 am
eyeused2b says:
How did Create-A-Two become a symposium for Jordan apologists? As great as he was, dude was not perfect, so get off it and play the game.
Michael Jordan’s post-game, fall-away jumper, athleticism, psychotic winning drive, and calm in the clutch.
Reggie Miller’s three-point shooting, boundless energy, free throw shooting, and flair for the dramatic
Kobe Bryant’s ball handling, mid-range game, athleticism, psychotic winning drive, and assassin-like ability in the clutch
March 5th, 2010 at 2:04 pm
JAY says:
@BCap
Are you being serious? Or are you just trying to get a rise out of people? lol.
I ask myself the question, “why do people think Kobe’s competitive drive is higher than Mike’s”? To me, Mike’s fire burns much hotter than Kobe’s. He left the game for almost 2 years, came back at 32 years of age and immediately was one of the game’s best scorers… realizing he had to put in work to truly be “back”, he worked his ass off like noone before him did during the off-season and in his 1st full season he led his team to a 72-10 record while average over 30pts. Read about those workouts. He opened an inflatable domed gym and the league’s top players joined him so they could work on their games too. So what if he wasn’t known as a great shooter from 3. That part of the game is overrated.
His mental game makes him the GOAT. There have been guys who had more physical tools than MJ. Vince Carter being one of them. I don’t think there’s a question of who’s better.
and btw, who said he wasn’t strong?? Name one player who played against him that said Jordan wasn’t strong. Muscle mass doesn’t equal strength. Anybody who trained for a sport should know that.
March 11th, 2010 at 2:52 pm
Sporty-j says:
Micheal joradan-evrything D.Wades-Fastest SG ever R.Miller or R.Allen- Cant go wrong with either. Cant belive D.Wade A.K.A Flash, A.K.A. Devin Hester, A.K.A Bolts Twin brother is not being mention over Allen Iverson for his quickness…
March 29th, 2010 at 3:50 pm
Zeemo says:
MJ is the prototype. The only thing you could’ve ever added to him is Reggie’s 3pt ability. But hey, if you can average over 30 ppg with out having the leagues best 3pt shot, the who cares anyway.