Should the Cavs retire LeBron’s Number?
While the 10-story “We Are All Witnesses” banner in downtown Cleveland came down in a matter of days following LeBron James‘ departure from the Cavaliers, there’s still no way to tell how lasting LBJ’s impact on the franchise will be. Some would argue that LeBron “made” the Cavs and the organization will flop without him, while others say LeBron’s tenure with the team ultimately won’t matter much because he didn’t win a championship.
In the Dime office the other day we were kicking around the question: Should the Cavs retire LeBron’s No. 23 jersey? Here are the Pro and Con arguments…
CAVS HAVE TO DO IT
When I went to basketball-reference.com to check the career statistical leaders for the Cleveland Cavaliers, I half-expected (“How do you half-expect something?”) to find LeBron’s name wiped from the surface. That’s about how much Cleveland hates its former golden manchild right now.
But no, LeBron was still there, and the regularity with which he dominates the Cavs record book is argument enough why he should absolutely have his No. 23 retired in that team’s arena someday.
Check the stats: LeBron is No. 1 all-time in Cavs history in points (about 5,000 in front of his closest competitor), points per game (27.8 ppg, followed by World B. Free‘s 23.0 ppg), field goals made and attempted, free throws made and attempted, steals and minutes. He’s first in Defensive Win Shares (whatever that is) and first by far in Offensive Win Shares and total Win Shares. He’s second in three-pointers and assists, third in steals per game, fourth in rebounds and blocks, and fifth in assists per game. In short, the numbers ain’t lying when they confirm LeBron is by far the best player the Cavs have ever had, and I’m guessing, ever will have.
So he didn’t leave on very good terms. I get it. But LeBron was a free agent and free agents leave teams. He didn’t demand a trade or screw the franchise on his way out. As much as some Cleveland fans want to villainize LeBron, he’s nowhere near Art Modell. Robert Parish left Boston to sign with the Hornets, and his number is still retired at the Garden. Moses Malone left Houston to sign with the Sixers (winning a championship the next year), and the Rockets still retired his number. Hell, Nate Thurmond played for the Cavs for less than two whole seasons at the tail-end of his career, averaging about five points and six boards per game, and his No. 42 is retired in Cleveland. Jim Brown walked away from the Browns while still in his prime, and his No. 32 is retired and he’s a deity in Cleveland.
LeBron doesn’t owe Cleveland any more than he’s already given them. He set records and won awards and played MVP-caliber basketball for the majority of his seven seasons in town. He took them to their only NBA Finals. He made the franchise relevant, profitable and marketable for seven years to a level no one else in Cavs history has ever achieved.
I know tensions are high right now, emotions are fresh and feelings are still hurt. But if the Cavs are any kind of classy organization — well, maybe whoever owns the team after Dan Gilbert — and the fans have some time to reflect and appreciate what they had for seven years, LeBron number will rightfully end up where it belongs, in the rafters of the building he made famous.
-Austin Burton
LEBRON BLEW IT
Now LeBron had all the right in the world to go to another team and leave Cleveland. I am not debating that. But I think the way in which King James went about it will lead him to becoming one of the most despised athletes in Cleveland sports history.
I’m definitely not a “LeBron Hater,” but I’m just trying to be a realist here. LeBron humiliated the city of Cleveland and Cavs fans by dragging out his free-agency spectacle.
Obviously LeBron is the greatest player in Cavs history, but the way in which he left did no honor to the franchise, so why should they honor him? That just doesn’t make sense to me. I mean, Vince Carter was arguably the best basketball player in the Raptors history, but I’m sure that they won’t be retiring his No. 15 anytime soon.
Now LeBron has brought relevancy back to Cleveland and definitely made the Cavs a boatload of money, but unless he and Dan Gilbert can have a face-to-face sit-down and discuss their frustrations (like they SHOULD have had during his free agency process, then I just don’t see any possible way the Cavs organization could honor him. Plus he’s changing to No. 6 next season, so obviously he is trying to make a new legacy for himself.
Now I think LeBron is a phenomenal player and wish him all the luck in the world in Miami next season. But when you screw a city on the way out, it contradicts a lot of the good things he did while he was wearing the wine and gold.
-Rey Jefferson
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July 27th, 2010 at 10:03 am
whitecollar says:
Another slow news day huh?
July 27th, 2010 at 10:07 am
Loc says:
Retiring his jersey is slapping your entire fan base!!!!!
July 27th, 2010 at 10:08 am
BV says:
I think the Cavs definitely should retire Lebron’s number. He is without question their best franchise player ever and gave them so many great seasons.
And WhiteCollar you’re right about that!
July 27th, 2010 at 10:10 am
That's What's Up says:
Should the Bulls retire Luc Longley’s jersey???
July 27th, 2010 at 10:13 am
clib says:
It’s the end if July, of course the news is slow, get over it.
July 27th, 2010 at 10:23 am
Heckler says:
LeBron James was the best player they ever had.
But there is no need to retire his jersey number.
July 27th, 2010 at 10:25 am
Pedro says:
Oh God! Slow news days, is not enough to explain the dumbest article ever.
Of course not, c’mon dime!!
July 27th, 2010 at 10:31 am
RG says:
Lebron has great basketball talent, but as a person he is not so great which is what you consider when retiring a jersey. It has to be a slow news day with a second rate so called news that seemed to published by Lebron’s second rate marketing team. Lebron can have his number retired in one of those clubs in South Beach.
July 27th, 2010 at 10:43 am
Pareja says:
Retired number is not earned with stats. It more about respect than plain stats. It’s about earning your respect and showing loyality to city.
July 27th, 2010 at 10:50 am
Promoman says:
LeBron wasn’t obligated to resign with the Cavs but he did them dirty. He colluded with Wade & Bosh to team up all along. Think about it for a second. LeBron had to have been playing the organization in order for them to fire Mike Brown about a week or so after getting eliminated and force out Danny Ferry. He also had input on all of the other major transactions that the Cavs made. If the team was so bad, how could they have had the league’s best record 2 years running along with LeBron getting MVPs to boot? I’m not a Cavs fan but if they don’t retire LeBron’s jersey, I’d say it’d be karma coming due.
July 27th, 2010 at 10:52 am
Wait, what?! says:
cosign Pedro
July 27th, 2010 at 10:59 am
jryu says:
there was a suggestion in a bill simmons reader response that #23 should be retired in cleveland when miami visits next season..
and the name on the back of the jersey should be JORDAN. hahahaha
July 27th, 2010 at 11:05 am
Bizz says:
From Cleveland’s perspective, what about retiring in a disrespectful manner instead, since the #23 screwed them over twice now? (MJ then LBJ)
Something like “Nobody who ever plays for the Cavs franchise is allowed to wear the #23 for the damage it causes to our city”, and write the statement in Comic Sans font lmfao
July 27th, 2010 at 11:11 am
karizmatic says:
Nah if you’re Cleveland you can’t retire Lebron’s jersey a lot of the players cited left their teams after illustrious careers with the team with which they spent most of their careers. As a player LBJ or otherwise you can’t leave a team in your prime and then think you’ll get your jersey retired there. The closest modern parallel we have in this situation is Shaq who left Orlando in the prime of his career, you think Orlando is retiring his jersey? I doubt it.
And actually the whole point about individual accolades is really a non issue, if you think about it most jerseys get retired because of the success that individual helped the team get to. Yeah you can measure it in individual stats but it’s really not about that.
July 27th, 2010 at 11:26 am
Roman says:
Hey Dime- is Jerry’s Kids writing for you guys these days. Most off the wall topic-
July 27th, 2010 at 11:27 am
LMNOP says:
Will the Nets retire Kidds jersey? he played at MVP level and took them to the finals just like Bron did.
July 27th, 2010 at 11:51 am
Whatdahec says:
With what LeBron did, I say give ’23′ to a rookie coming in this year. Show LeBron that Cleveland couldn’t care less about him.
July 27th, 2010 at 11:52 am
JBaller says:
Sorry, but this is a stupid question, the kind of question we are getting too used to. The Cavs should retire the number of the player who leads them to a championship. LeBron was their best player, perhaps ever, but they won nothing with him. If he goes on to win a dozed rings with other teams he still shouldn’t have his number retired in Cleavland; maybe in Akron.
July 27th, 2010 at 12:05 pm
hahns says:
breaking news: raptors retire vince carter’s number!
July 27th, 2010 at 12:17 pm
JAY says:
DIME, you guys sure know how to stir the pot and create discussion. Even you guys know this is a stupid question.
@Austin, of course YOU had to be the guy defending it. Lol. Funny shit. I could imagine the Dime office when you all were discussing this…
—————————-
Rey: “So who’s going to write the supporting argument??”
Austin: “You guys KNOW it has to be me. Those crazy posters know i’m up Lebron’s ass. Even if someone else puts their name on it, they’ll know I wrote the piece.
Rey: “Haha! Yea, you’re right. Now can you please stop kissing that stupid McFarlane Lebron doll? It’s not a good look.”
Austin: “It’s NOT stupid and it’s NOT a DOLL!!! It’s an ACTION FIGURE!!!”
Rey: “Whatever you say…”
—————————–
July 27th, 2010 at 12:35 pm
K Dizzle says:
“Heckler says:
LeBron James was the best player they ever had.
But there is no need to retire his jersey number.”
Nail on the head…
July 27th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
JAY says:
St. Vincent will retire his jersey.
If the Cavs do, it might be the first time in history that a city burned, and retired a jersey of the same player.
July 27th, 2010 at 1:13 pm
Kyle says:
They shouldn’t
The whole point of retiring a number and raising it to the rafters is for the fan base to understand how greatly that player impacted the franchise. He impacted it negatively, bringing more of a detrament than a positive to the city of cleveland.
Why should his jersey be hung and his number retired if the entire city hates him?
Does he deserve it based on accomplishments? yes
Should he get it based on actions and overall impact on the city and team? No
July 27th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
Celticsdada says:
Are you freaking retarded author? wat did Austin Burnton feed you? Now u becoming a mini him?
July 27th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
JAY says:
Kyle just served Austin.
Lebron metaphorically spit on the Cavs and their fans by choosing to leave on national tv.
July 27th, 2010 at 1:51 pm
Austin Burton says:
@Kyle — You really think LeBron’s overall impact on the Cavs was negative? I’m talking winning, money, mainstream appeal, everything. That’s just silly.
July 27th, 2010 at 1:59 pm
rey jefferson says:
@Austin I agree with u fam
@Kyle C’MON SON (Ed Lover Voice)!!!!
July 27th, 2010 at 1:59 pm
JAY says:
@Austin, while he was there he brought Cleveland to the forefront of the NBA. No argument there. The way he left overshadows what he did. 10-15 years from now, Cleveland fans will remember how he left FIRST… then his tenure second. If the league decided whose jerseys get retired, I would side with you, Austin. Since each organization decides, his jersey will never reside up in the rafters in Cleveland.
July 27th, 2010 at 2:04 pm
Austin Burton says:
@JAY — My point is that the fans need to get over it eventually. Like I said, it’s not like he demanded a trade or pulled a Boozer move. What did LeBron do in leaving that was any worse than any other free agent picking another team? Do Phoenix fans hate Amar’e? They’ll probably boo him the next couple times he comes back, but the kind of hate LeBron is getting in Cleveland? No.
July 27th, 2010 at 2:36 pm
dmitry of jersey says:
Phoenix tried to trade Amare multiple times and Suns ownership did Jack Shit to improve the team by selling off multiple draft picks (including Rondo). And Amare wasn’t even “the man” in Phoenix– that would be Stave Nash.
Cleveland did everything Lebron presumably asked for. If you really think Amare leaving/ Lebron leaving are similar situations, you are just not thinking straight.
July 27th, 2010 at 2:45 pm
Claw says:
@ Austin – Get over it? Just like they did with “The Shot”, “The Fumble”, “The Drive”, and now “The Decision”? Not Happening. Last time I looked Amare wasn’t a 2x NBA MVP, grew up in the area and had a team built around him, Hell Amare is the 2nd best player on his own team!
Like LeFraud said, he is from Akron not Ctown, most of his charity work was in Akron so let St. Vs retire his number (they already did).
Like this take on “The Decision” as Lebron talks about coming out of the closet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Te4OQ3gAs70
July 27th, 2010 at 2:54 pm
Jordan says:
I think the Cavs should retire Shaq’s number first.
July 27th, 2010 at 3:02 pm
Stunnaboy09 says:
No need to retire his jersey number, he fucked the city over. Wish him the best, but you don’t pull that shit and expect fans to “get over it”
I agree with the retire 23, just have the name Jordan instead of LeBron. And do it when LeBron comes with Miami.
July 27th, 2010 at 3:08 pm
fallinup says:
They should pull a pat Riley and retire 23. For MJ.
That would be spectacular and I don’t put anything past Gilbert. I wonder if he’s still selling the Bron Fathead’s for $17.41?
just checked. Yep. And it’s sold out. haha
1741 is Benedict Arnold’s birthday for the one’s that didn’t know.
July 27th, 2010 at 3:19 pm
QQ is an idiot says:
so i guess they should retire craig ehlos number as well.
for a guy who pretty much failed his whole career in cavaliers, the dude never even won one finals game. Acted like a douche his whole time there.. so what if he was their best player? He never won shit. Every year was just another failure and let down.
July 27th, 2010 at 3:32 pm
Austin Burton says:
“Pretty much failed his whole career”
“Acted like a douche his whole time there”
That’s the kind of hate I’m talking about. Every other player whose number the Cavs have retired didn’t win a Finals game either. Would they be failures too?
July 27th, 2010 at 3:50 pm
Claw says:
Doesn’t matter the history, his one defining moment will be how he left not how he went to the Finals and got swept.
BP had a solid rep, then they have the biggest oil spill in the US and now are seen as money grubbing oil execs, hell Exxon has never overcome their rep and its been 20 years!
Reggie Bush, OJ Simpson, Brett Farve, doesn’t matter if you got 2,000 yards rushing if you killed your ex-wife that’ll hurt your rep for a long time.
THese examples all suck also, since I can’t think of one that correlates to what LeQueen did, to leave at the height of your game? No one has ever done it in any sport, why is that do you think?
July 27th, 2010 at 4:08 pm
Alpha Goat says:
Yeah right after they retire mine GTFOH
July 27th, 2010 at 5:03 pm
fallinup says:
Let’s just put it this way, Austin. If I were from Cleveland, I’d have way too much pride to be hanging up Bron’s jersey in the rafters.
And for Cleveland, I hope they do too.
There’s absolutely no defending the crap that Bron put them through by leaving like that. Even if he won multiple rings and bolted like that.
I’d say screw Bron. It’s all about pride. And for Cleveland, it’s one, if not the ONLY thing they got over there.
July 27th, 2010 at 8:07 pm
betrayed fan says:
Fact is, Lebron didn’t make cleveland relevant. I read ESPN every day, way too much. I never see anything regarding the CAVS any more. The CAVS are as forgotten as they were before LEBRON. It’s what happens in Cleveland. From this we will grow even more bitter. We thought he was a local superstar that understood and felt like those of us from here feel about sports. We mistake him, thinking he was our sports savior. We were very eager to embrace some one of his talents, and fooled because he was among us from the beginning. It is the fan who made him, and we didn’t know him. We were wrong, and that is what will he will have to face when he comes home.
July 27th, 2010 at 8:53 pm
sh!tfaced says:
They damn should, just to kill the number’s jinx on the franchise. The number 23 (MJ and LeBron) hurt them the most in their history…
July 28th, 2010 at 5:36 am
slimebucket says:
@fallinup Couldn’t have been said better. Still like what Lebron does on the court as a player as he is a freak but lost a lot of respect as a person. Let’s see if he is motivated to prove all the haters wrong and bring a post game this season or if he thinks he is entitled to a title just because he has 2 teammates better than any that he has ever had. Can’t actually wait to see all the teams going after the Heat and seeing if the Heat are up to the challenge with all that talent. Should make for some playoff caliber like games in the regular season. Might actually get NBA season pass as this could be the last great season before the lockout and the CBA forces a hard cap possibly meaning no more super teams.
July 28th, 2010 at 7:01 pm
Drink the Haterade says:
Austin– The other cavs players werent as dominate as Lebron. So no they are not failures, nobody on there teams ever won MVP twice and nobody ever expected them to win. LBJ came into the league as the supposed King and has won nothing! So I ask is he a a bust? Yes, he copped the MVP of the regualr season but we all know careers are defined in the post season… So Since LBJ will never win one as the MAN in Miami is he a bust?
July 29th, 2010 at 11:40 pm
Max says:
all the clevland people are jus mad tht he left like your gonna have to get over it at some point, like forgive and forget. Booing him aint gunna do shit hes just gunna play better, look at VC when he comes to toronto and merks the raps. Booing wont make him be like ‘oh they’re booing me i cant play’ or ‘oh they’re booing me i wanna go back’. Hes gunna take it in and play even bettter. If they don’t retire his number then they’re just mad cause he left and didn’t make the right choice. He’s the greatest of all time in cleveland hell yee he should get his number retired. Cavs fans right now are just being drama queens, like he has the choice to go wherever he wants and the choice didnt go your way so move on like stop being babiess!