NBA / Aug 19, 2010 / 9:00 am

2011 Is The Year Kobe Bryant (maybe) surpasses Michael Jordan

Kobe Bryant (photo. Nike)

As it stands now, Kobe Bryant has five NBA championship rings. If his L.A. Lakers were to win it all again this upcoming season, that would give Kobe the illustrious sixth ring and fuel another round of Michael Jordan comparisons. And while Kobe has always dealt with critics saying he’ll never live up to Jordan’s standard, a sixth title puts him in serious consideration to be recognized as equal to — or better than — the man they call “G.O.A.T.”

After mounting injuries (Kobe is coming off knee surgery) and fatigue following three straight runs to the NBA Finals, on paper the biggest thing standing in the way of a Lakers three-peat is the three-headed monster in Miami. But if Kobe were to lead his team to a championship by beating the Heat, that would give No. 24 something to put on his resume that No. 23 doesn’t have.

Jordan never met a team in the Finals that his Chicago Bulls weren’t expected to beat. But the 2010-11 Miami squad — led by LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh — already has experts predicting they’ll win 70-plus games this season. They have two of the top three players in the League, and a Top-5 big man in Bosh. Going into a hypothetical Finals series against the Lakers, you can see why a lot of people would make Miami the favorite, and the two-time defending champion Lakers the underdog.

Kobe is an all-time great no matter what happens next season or any season from now on, but if he were actually able to beat a team that Jeff Van Gundy said will surpass the Bulls’ NBA record for the best regular season record ever to complete a three-peat and win ring No. 6, he’d put himself on another level.

A level that may be even higher than Jordan.

I would say the best team Jordan ever played against in the Finals was in 1993, when he played league MVP Charles Barkley and the Phoenix Suns. But even Barkley, Kevin Johnson and Dan Majerle as a “Big Three” don’t quite matchup talent-wise with LeBron, Wade and Bosh. In fact, you could easily argue that the best team Jordan even beat in the Finals also doesn’t measure up to the ’10 Boston Celtics and their Hall of Fame trio of Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, not to mention Top-5 point guard Rajon Rondo.

At the very least, you’d have to put Kobe at worst only a half-step behind Jordan should he take down such a loaded Miami team on his way to tying MJ’s mark for career championships. We all know that in the eyes of the public, especially those who watched MJ in his prime, Mike’s legacy can’t be touched for what he meant to the game of basketball. But as an individual player, could Kobe become the new standard by which all others are judged? Can Kobe now be compared favorably with the G.O.A.T.?

-Follow Rey on Twitter at @reyrey33.
-Follow Dime on Twitter at @DIMEMag.
-Become a fan of Dime Magazine on Facebook HERE.

Related Posts with Thumbnails
  • Drewskeelove

    If the Lakers win, Kobe is def in the same atmosphere as MJ. And Kobe still has time to get #7 if he gets #6 this year.

    As for Miami, Kobe>Wade and Gasol>Bosh. If Artest and Barnes can harass LBJ on D, it would be a very interesting series.

    And if Bynum stays healthy the whole year (IF), he, Gasol, and Odom are to much for the Heat’s front court.

  • fallinup

    Even if Kobe wins 7 or 8 rings. You got 3 with a big fat asterisk by it for the plain fact that they were in the shadow of Shaq.

    Just stop with the MJ comparisons already. All you gotta do is check the stats and see why they call MJ the GOAT.

  • Chise

    Good article, although all the blind Kobe haters will call you retarded.

  • Yummy32

    I still think that he was the #2 guy behind Shaq for three chips says something….I think if he gets number 7 then we can start comparing the two.

  • Ricky

    Who cares if kobe had shaq, mj had a hof in pippen, one of the best shooters in kerr, one of the best defender in rodman, and one of the best sixth man in kukoc…

  • fallinup

    @ Ricky…. um… MJ was the MAN on all those squads. I don’t think when Kobe won those first 3 that players were coming up and thanking him for the ring. Check MJ’s last championship right after the buzzer sounded. Every player hugging Jordan said the same damn thing… ‘Thank you’…

    Never during the bulls rings was Pippen the man. You can’t say the same about Kobe.

    But as I said earlier… all you gotta do is check the damn stats.

  • Yummy32

    I agree, you need to have another great player. But it wasnt Kobe’s team, thats all im saying.

  • eczeyes

    Kobe is one of the best players ever, maybe second greastet, but if you look at the stats, and individual achievements (Six finals MVP’s, vs only 2, DPY, 7 Scoring titles, second in steals history), not only the rings, he’s far from being and equal to Michael Jordan.

  • Trey bing bay

    When the Lakers beat Boston, Kobe had a much better supporting cast than Jordan did against the Suns in 93 so you can’t really compare.

    MJ all the way but Kobe is and will always be considered to be on the same level.

  • Frank

    MJ is the GOAT…. and that is it

  • MattO

    @Ricky – the difference is, Kobe was clearly the #2 to Shaq during those first 3 championships…MJ was never #2 to anybody – and never will be.

  • http://www.dimemag.com heino skovgaard

    MJ took time outs from the nba all the time,to play golf and make movies.plus kobe was drafted from high school giving him more years to pile up stats and rings.

  • Darius

    He will never be close to Jordan. Jordan is the greatest because not only was he the best player, but also a cultural icon. So on the court Kobe is closest & off the court Iverson is closest. Combine the game of Kobe with the fan fair or Iverson then u get better than Jordan

  • kevin

    Pippen > Shaq

  • ctkennedy

    mike all day and its not close
    10 scoring titles > 2
    5 mvps(with about 3 others he should of got)> 1(it could have one more ill say)
    6 finals mvp>2 finals mvp
    higher career scorin avg,reb avg,asist avg,and fg percentage
    0 finals loses-kobe got 2
    mike from 86-96 was CLEARLY the best player in basketball
    kobe only the yr he avg 35 he was CLEARLY the best player in basketball

  • A.S.L.

    2 finals mvps vs 6 . . . 1 mvp vs 5 . . just because you are a laker head you feel the need to compare. . next time just don’t

  • Darius

    @ctkennedy God point about Kobe never really being the clear best. He either been second or shared with Shaq, Iverson, T Mac, Duncan, Nash, Bron, Wade. Jordan didnt share the best title with anyone

  • Darius

    * good

  • Simba

    These comparisons are BS.

    Let’s say Kobe wins EIGHT rings. How many Finals MVPs does he have then? Still only 5.

    TO BE COMPARED TO JORDAN, YOU NEED 6 RINGS AS THE MAIN OPTION, AS THE BIG AHUNA, AS “THE MAN”!

    You also need godlike statistics, more NBA records than Jordan, all the accolades and more, dominance of a decade, and recognition as perhaps the greatest athlete of all time.

    You need to be the best offensive and best defensive player on the court at all times.

    Kobe IS a top-10 player all time and perhaps a top-5 player when it is all said and done, but are you kidding me? Do you think anyone in the current NBA can surpass everything Jordan accomplished?

    Kobe isn’t even at his best in the NBA Finals where he shoots an average of 40%, and has been outplayed in 4 of 7 Finals.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGbuEjt-KIc

  • ctkennedy

    @A.S.L
    i dont care for the lakers or jordan for that matter but i cant lie about what i have seen …jordan is clearly better than kobe ….if u gone be 2nd to somebody why not mike….that means 5x more than lebron bein 2nd to bird

  • KL

    @A.S.L.
    after reading all the comments,,,you said it best. Still hoping to see the Lake show beat the Heat in the final though.

  • http://www.wix.com/reyrey33/REYZ-WORLD Rey Jefferson

    All im saying is a ring this year against the Heat, would give Kobe something on his resume that MJ doesn’t…And you guys are ALL right, you cannot win without great players around you…I think players like Dennis Rodman and Toni Kukoc’s legacy suffer because Mike was SO dominant…He is simply amazing and the closest thing we’ll maybe EVER have is Kobe

  • https://twitter.com/PoppiGEE POPPI GEE

    Kobe won’t ever pass Jordan just off of impact on the game alone.

    You might find some other smaller criteria like scoring a lot of points and minor things where he might pass M.J.

    But when you go based off of all things considered. Kobe ain’t ever passing the GOAT.
    Done.

  • http://www.wix.com/reyrey33/REYZ-WORLD Rey Jefferson

    C’Mon guys you guys are arguing about individual awards were talking about the player and his individual greatness…we ALL KNOW that MVP Dirk got should have been KOBES (so he should have at least two) and can you imagine if he had this team while he was in his PRIME? Instead of playing with guys like Kwame Brown and Smush Parker?

  • Sporty-j

    IVE BEEN DIEING FOR THIS CONVERSTAION TO COME BACK UP ON DIMES. First off lets stop the B.S. and get right to it. Jordan won 3 rings retired for 2yrs and came BACK and won another 3. Thats a bad man! Is there any doubt in anybodys mind that he would have won 8 if he had not retired? The only way Kobe can be compared to Jordan is if he was to win 8 rings not 6 or 7. If he wins 9 i would even call him better than Jordan even though if the Owner would not have Broke up the that Bulls team because he did not want to rehire Phil, he probably would have had 10 lol… I like Kobe and hes a great player. Wades my second favorite player since Jordan because Wade reminds me so much of Jordan and thats why Wade is Jordans favorite player also. Lebron, Kobe, and Wade just dont measure up to Jordan and nobody in the history of the game does because Jordan is the ultimate competitor in SPORTS HISTORY. The guy probably thinks he can be the next TIGER WOODS and im not talking about off the golf course, but on it. There will never be another Micheal Jordan and its just not fair to Compare Wade, Lebron, and Kobe so lets just stop trying to compare those guys to the Goat because its just to much pressure and to tall of a Wall to climb. If there is another Micheal Jordan out there we will know some day, but i doubt we see him in this lifetime… I also remember Shaq being being the MAN in Kobes first 3 ships and why do you think they invinted the hack of shaq??? Once Kobe has own rule holla at me.

  • rell

    @ctkennedy
    Lebron might be 2nd best behind Gervin but definitely not Bird. Bron have to win 3 titles while being the best player on his team to even being considered with Bird. That won’t happen because D.Wade is the best player on the Heat.

  • deeds

    Kobe could win the next 4 straight titles and he will NEVER be close to Jordan in my mind. No one is.

  • bbrob

    “Can Kobe now be compared favorably with the G.O.A.T.?”

    If you’re asking, then its already being done. we spend too much time debating, instead of just enjoying watching an all time great do work the last 13 years.

    As far as being second banana to Shaq…I still say Lakers dont win those 3 titles w/out Kobe as well. Plenty of games he carried the Lakers. So yea he was #2, but a damn good one.

  • Sporty-j

    Could you Imagine Jordan and Shaq on the same team??? Chemistry issue??? lol thats when you know Kobe nots even comparable and i have yet to see when the league said Kobe is so good that we have to give the MVP to somebody else because if not he will keep winning it it lol. If the my Heat break the Bulls 72 wins a season record this year. Will Wade finally get his first MVP? Or will it take for them to break the Cetics 33 wins in a row also because 73 was expected???

  • Guitar Hero

    Came on, Miami hasn´t even played a game with this new lineup and you are already talking 70 wins and finals appearances?

    It´s like you have never watched baskeball at all…it´s 5×5, not 3×3. There are so many things that can go wrong during a season…injuries, chemistry issues, etc.
    The team to beat in the East is Boston. They are the Champs, and they just got better with the O´Neals on board (albeit 1 yr older.

    The Lakers are NBA Champs and added some nice pieces as well. Don´t jump on the Superfriends bandwagon…at least before they play one or two games.

    Jeez.

  • flegman

    6 rings (maybe even 7) and he can focus on a 3pt contest championship, too. that will make him the GOAT.

    I can imagine that. Kobe is the type of person who gets/reaches/accomplishes what he wills to get/reach/accomplish.

    Like MJ.

    Why MJ and Kobe never tried to win a 3pt contest so far?

  • http://tolulope.edun@gmail.com Y.G.

    When Kobe gets his sixth ring at the expense of the ‘Super Friends’ or whatever team, he must be considered the GOAT.   Did Jordan play against a zone defense? I don’t want to hear the argument that Jordan used to get beat up by the Bad Boys, as if Kobe doesn’t take a beating every night. Just look at the caliber of talent that Kobe has played against & outlasted….. Now compare that to Jordan’s competition. Kobe plays against BEASTS!!!! 

  • http://www.cnnsi.com JAY

    @ #14 kevin: “Pippen > Shaq”

    Skill-wise, i’d have to agree. Effect on the game, strongly I disagree. Shaq was the single most dominating player in the game for over a decade. Teams were forced to double and triple team him in the post. Pippen never got the same attention on defence.

  • fallinup

    Hey! Robert Horry has six rings! So I guess he’s should be an all time great (maybe even greater) as Jordan was!

    AMIRITE!???

  • https://twitter.com/PoppiGEE POPPI GEE

    Honestly I personally think Kobe is over the whole be better than MJ thing.

    Kobe wants to make his mark as Kobe. I really think even he realizes that MJ won’t be touched.

    In all honesty even if Kobe gets more rings MJ will still be the standard by many, especially those who grew up on MJ’s greatness.

    Media will certainly try to make it a comparison worth debate and not to say that it’s completely no debate there in terms of playing the game.

    Still personally I think Jordan’s toughest foes were Detroit who came with the “Jordan Rules”.

    For many of a younger generation who don’t know the exploits of Jordan, Kobe will be their Mike.

    But for all that Jordan has done, I don’t believe time and health will allow Kobe to replicate or pass that.

    Plus “I wanna be like Kobe” doesn’t have the same ring to it as a jingle.

  • MSL

    I don’t see how Kobe can be called the GOAT of anything, by tying 6 championships or winning 7 of them when he never played great or lights out ball for any of them (those championships).

    Kobe has been rather ordinary in some of his finals series, while Shaq dominated three of them too boot, and this year he was just down right awful in the FINAls and the first round against Boston and OKC, shooting just 35%, but he got bailed out by a better team than the oppositions star.Now we want to call him the GOAT?

    Lucky Kobe.

  • jamal

    ricky is right. @fallin up mj doesn’t have six rings without pippen. he would have had 0. kobe was a child when for his first 3 rings. but he still lead the team in the playoffs to victory. and back then the east had no bigs. so when they got to the finals shaq was a no brainer to give the ball to.

  • http://www.wix.com/reyrey33/REYZ-WORLD rey jefferson

    @POPPI GEE I completely agree!!!!

  • ratman

    Cmon did you see Kobe in the finals? He sucked, shot under 40% from the field. I hope somebody finds that fountain of youth just so that Jordan can have a drink and than whup yo ass!

  • fallinup

    @ jamal

    You obviously hadn’t seen a single game that Shaq played to win those 3 rings for the Lakers.

    And you obviously haven’t read up on your history of MJ. MJ friggin made Pippen.

  • wizfan

    good article, but its still committing basketball blasphemy. Kobe needs more league MVP’s and DPOY just to be in the same breath of Jordan

  • Taj

    MJ… All day, every day!!!

    Kobe is a great basketball player no question but he emulates 1 person… MJ is the standard for Kobe. He’ll need to win at least one more chip than MJ to be considered on the same level. MJ did soo much more for the league, players & game.

  • Sporty-j

    Jordan turned Pippen from a HOE into a HOUSEWIFE. You have to be tuff minded to play with Jordan because hes going to ride you harder than the coach and Pippen step-up to that challenge which a lot of players would not have been able to do. The amount of pressure that was on Pippen to perform gave the man freckin Migranes. Thats why Pippen has to be to 25 of all-time…

  • Ross

    Playing in two different eras make it hard to argue. Kobe may have been the man if he never got traded on draft day. Remember Jordan started a team, where as Kobe came to an established team. Plus Jordan came first and will always be loved more, better skilled talent Kobe. Better statistically Jordan. Kobe basically didnt play alot his first two years. Nor is the MVP voting relevant because Kobe lost a lot of respect due to people not liking him. Which is why his accalades took a hit the year after the Colorado incident. Its a tough argument to have based on varying reasons.

  • http://www.cnnsi.com JAY

    2011 is not the year Kobe surpasses MJ.

    The 6 Finals MVPs, and the 10 scoring titles (7 straight… think about that) puts MJ still head and shoulders above Kobe.
    If Kobe supporters would like, they can make the argument with the 6 total rings, but that number only EQUALS MJs total rings. I fail to see how Kobe SURPASSES MJ winning the same amount of rings MJ did.

    BTW, as other people here have mentioned, Kobe’s first 3 rings he was the Robin to Shaq’s Batman.
    MJ’s first 3 rings he won with Pippen as his batman and a bunch of scrubs.

  • jason

    at post 23 Sporty-j

    you referencing the hack-a-shaq rule for y kobe isnt the greatest is plain retarded…there is no such rule for kobe because there isnt a glaring weakness in his game unlike shaq….

  • Geoff

    It is clear that Kobe Bryant is an all-time great, and probably 2nd best SG of all-time. But the Championships alone would not put him past MJ. Kobe is only now establishing himself as the best of his era, let alone all-time. Bryant has lost in 2 finals. Although the finals opponents for Kobe have been tough, don’t forget the playoff run in ’98 when everyone said Bulls wouldn’t even make Finals. As for career stats, the gulf is too huge.

  • http://tolulope.edun@gmail.com Y.G.

    All I see is numbers, numbers, numbers. Yall are just Jordan nutthuggers! All Kobe does is WIN!!! This is the most competitive era ever in the NBA’s history, & Kobe has been to the finals 3 straight seasons, & has just won two straight rings. Those 3 chips the Lakers got belong to Kobe as much as they belong to Shaq. Kobe was our closer back them, & used to lead us through the playoffs, while Shaq killed squads in the finals. Jordan played against cupcake competition. Kobe has dominated the Western Conference for a decade. I would LOVE to see what MJ would have done playing against today’s competition, especially in the West.

  • Big Mike

    M.J. transcended the game so that alone makes him better. But all this Kobe wasn’t the man in the first 3 chips is crazy. Back when Shaq and Kobe were running off titles, their hardest competition were the Spurs and kings. Kobe won those series for them, go back and check. After they got by them, the east was horrible with no size so Shaq had a field day, reason he won MVP. But the real series were the WCF, where Kobe showed out. Shaq didnt dominate the Spurs back then, Kobe did.

  • http://www.cnnsi.com JAY

    @ Rey Jefferson: “In fact, you could easily argue that the best team Jordan even beat in the Finals also doesn’t measure up to the ’10 Boston Celtics and their Hall of Fame trio of Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, not to mention Top-5 point guard Rajon Rondo.”

    I could easily make the argument that if you put Jordan on a team with Pau/Artest/Bynum/Odom, that Laker team would not go to 7 games against the 2010 Celtics. MJ would have ended it early.
    The other half of my argument is this…. Imagine replacing Kobe with MJ for the Bulls first 3-peat. So you’re looking at a team with Pippen, Kobe, BJ Armstrong, H. Grant, Longley, and the rest of the scrubs… first off who’s the best player on the team??? Secondly, do you think they would win 3 straight??

    FUCK NO!!!!!!!

    I don’t think they even win one, and I respect Kobe’s game but he’s not in Mike’s atmosphere.

  • George W Kush Sr

    Are you stupid?

    Kobe is the best player in the world, but did Mike have any player on his championship squads who impacted the game like Shaq did for 3 rings? Kobe better than Mike? smh

    Take it easy there buddy. Kobe choked Game 7, it was his teammates that won the game for him. Mike never made it to Game 7’s, because he himself would finish them off in Game 6s. Kobe better than Mike? Kobe is the closest thing we’ve seen to Mike. And even then he’s more gifted than Jordan physically, has better range, is bigger and stronger, etc etc, just to say that his game is different than Jordan’s no matter how much Kobe modeled his like it.

  • marparker

    please stop putting that question in print…it gives fools a platform

    1987-88 NBA Defensive Player of the Year
    1987-88 NBA MVP
    1990-91 NBA Finals MVP
    1990-91 NBA MVP
    1991-92 NBA Finals MVP
    1991-92 NBA MVP
    1992-93 NBA Finals MVP
    1995-96 NBA Finals MVP
    1995-96 NBA MVP
    1996-97 NBA Finals MVP
    1997-98 NBA Finals MVP
    1997-98 NBA MVP

    Points
    1984-85 NBA 2313 (1)
    1986-87 NBA 3041 (1)
    1987-88 NBA 2868 (1)
    1988-89 NBA 2633 (1)
    1989-90 NBA 2753 (1)
    1990-91 NBA 2580 (1)
    1991-92 NBA 2404 (1)
    1992-93 NBA 2541 (1)
    1995-96 NBA 2491 (1)
    1996-97 NBA 2431 (1)
    1997-98 NBA 2357 (1)

    1986-87 NBA All-NBA (1st)
    1987-88 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
    1987-88 NBA All-NBA (1st)
    1988-89 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
    1988-89 NBA All-NBA (1st)
    1989-90 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
    1989-90 NBA All-NBA (1st)
    1990-91 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
    1990-91 NBA All-NBA (1st)
    1991-92 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
    1991-92 NBA All-NBA (1st)
    1992-93 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
    1992-93 NBA All-NBA (1st)
    1995-96 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
    1995-96 NBA All-NBA (1st)
    1996-97 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
    1996-97 NBA All-NBA (1st)
    1997-98 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
    1997-98 NBA All-NBA (1st)
    (42 times he was the absolute best)
    vs.

    2007-08 NBA MVP
    2008-09 NBA Finals MVP
    2009-10 NBA Finals MVP

    1999-00 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
    2001-02 NBA All-NBA (1st)
    2002-03 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
    2002-03 NBA All-NBA (1st)
    2003-04 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
    2003-04 NBA All-NBA (1st)
    2005-06 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
    2005-06 NBA All-NBA (1st)
    2006-07 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
    2006-07 NBA All-NBA (1st)
    2007-08 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
    2007-08 NBA All-NBA (1st)
    2008-09 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
    2008-09 NBA All-NBA (1st)
    2009-10 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
    2009-10 NBA All-NBA (1st)

    2002-03 NBA 2461 (1)
    2005-06 NBA 2832 (1)
    2006-07 NBA 2430 (1)
    2007-08 NBA 2323 (1)
    (23 times he was the absolute best)

    Keep trying to convince yourselves that their career match in any way shape or form.

  • https://twitter.com/PoppiGEE POPPI GEE

    Y.G.

    Yall are just Jordan nutthuggers! (First I hugz no one’s nutz)

    All Kobe does is WIN!!! (I do believe he has lost some important ones before)

    Jordan played against cupcake competition. (I doubt Kobe could handle “The Jordan Rules”)

    I would LOVE to see what MJ would have done playing against today’s competition, especially in the West. (In this day where if you breath on someone or blink your eye their way it’s a foul…Jordan would have FEASTED)

    Even if you played advocate for Kobe you still can’t come up with a clear cut case where Kobe is better or will be better by winning one championship against Miami.

    With Jordan case is already closed.

  • http://tolulope.edun@gmail.com Y.G.

    And for the sake of arguing. KOBE, Duncan, & Shaq >>>>>> Bird. Dare someone to challenge that.

  • fallinup

    @ Y.G.

    Numbers don’t lie… although stating that this era is the most competitive era ever is a DAMN lie. Your seriously stating that the era of Magic, Bird, MJ, The Dream, Barkley, the bad boy Pistons, the 80’s Celts, the showtime Lakers was cupcakes compared to today??? SERIOUSLY???

    The creampuff rule changes of today’s game vs. anything compared to MJ’s era… is beyond comparison.

    Get a damn history book, youngins’.

  • http://www.cnnsi.com JAY

    @YG: “All I see is numbers, numbers, numbers. Yall are just Jordan nutthuggers! All Kobe does is WIN!!! ”

    And what did MJ do?? LOSE??
    Jordan won ON TOP of winning all those awards.

  • eazy yeezy

    MJ: 6 trips to the finals, 6 rings, 6 finals MVPs
    Kobe: 7 trips to the finals, 5 rings, 2 finals MVP’s

    I’m not even going to name the plethora of awards that Mike has won that Kobe hasnt.

    Nuh uh, I dont think so.

  • WW

    It’s not just about the rings. Robert Horry has 7. Steve
    Kerr has 5.

    Had MJ not retired to play baseball, and then played through the shortened lockout season, he could have won 8-10 championships IN A ROW. He could have been undefeated for an entire decade. The Bulls also went 6 for 6 in the finals, and never went to a 7th game, even w/o home court advantage. Maybe they’re just lucky and the competition was “cupcake”. Or maybe MJ would never let it happen. That’s why he’s 6 time NBA finals MVP.

    Kobe’s great, but not GOAT.

  • royland

    great article, and i agree with everything you said. kobe has to win 7 to surpass mike,and i believe he will. the heat won’t get out the east this season coming up. the lakers will beat the celt again,and beat the heat the next season.

  • WinDelRoj

    Robert Horry has more rings than MJ. So does Bill Russell. I dont think that plays into a goddamn thing when this argument happens. Kobe played on some stacked teams…teams loaded with talent for the first couple. Look at who The GOAT had to beat out for MVPs how many of the 50 greatest players played during that era? the scoring titles, the dpoy, Finals MVPs. This argument is played out. The question here is does anyone really think that a Kobe Bryant team would beat a Michael Jordan team? In the finals? “Equal or better” I dont think a soul in the NBA would buy that.

  • Ian

    kevin
    i love pippen but sir gtfoh

    now rey im so sorry not even close sure he may tie jordan in rings but 3 of those he was the robin of the team and the individual accomplishments not even close.

    kobe is a top ten player (my 9th right now) he will end up a few spots higher when he wins this one but not top 3.

  • http://www.cnnsi.com JAY

    These kids are fuckin ignorant.

    Unbeknown to most children, MJ would sit with Phil Jackson every off-season and come up with a new challenge. The conversations were describe in full by both Mike and Phil Jackson in separate interviews. MJ retired because he felt there were no more challenges for him in the NBA. So he retired and pursued a new challenge…. baseball.
    Then he met up with Phil Jackson mid-retirement and Phil came up with a new challenge… he told Mike “Nobody has ever came back from a retirement and led their team to a championship.” That would become his new motivation to re-claim his throne. His first full-season Mike led the Bulls to 72 wins and his 4th championship. Nuff said.

    One last thing, Jordan really has 8 rings. I don’t give a fuck if Hakeem is wearing 2 of them. We all know those 2 rings are Mike’s.

  • Big Mike

    At the end of the day, you can’t compare people who played in different eras.. Numbers don’t always tell the truth.. The situation of a team dictates numbers. Rules(how the game was called) dictate numbers. Kobe has a nice resume going but not on M.J’s level. At least he gets into the conversation, which is more than some will ever get. MJ is legendary, nuff said. Kobe is working on becoming legendary.

  • Ian

    ww
    8 or ten in a row?? jordan might be the goat but please stop the what if game i can go the other way around and say they lose in 95 and 99. you see we can argue back and forth about this crap and it wont matter lets stick to what we know happened.

    windel
    so jordan didnt play in stacked teams?? name one team in the 90s that could lose their best player and still win 54 games and make it to the conference finals and lose in 7?? ill wait take your time. jordans team was the best in the 90s and so has kobes teams in the early and late 00s. need i remind you that jordan played with the best sf , the best rebounder , the best 3pt shooter , one of the greatest coach, the best 6th man. so you cant use this one agains kobe when his airness also had the best team in his time.

  • http://www.cnnsi.com JAY

    @ #59 WinDelRoj: “This argument is played out. The question here is does anyone really think that a Kobe Bryant team would beat a Michael Jordan team? In the finals? “Equal or better” I dont think a soul in the NBA would buy that.”

    That’s what it comes down to. Well said… and that series wouldn’t go to a 7th game. Finals MVP #7 for Michael.

  • control

    Rondo isn’t top 5 PG…

  • Stunnaboy09

    Come on, Kobe over MJ is a mad reach, to me Kobe’s ceiling is over Magic as the 4th best player of all time. MJ, Russel and Kareem are un-fucking-touchable. @marparker said everything I neede to say, Jordan won EVERYTHING including DPOTY, every Finals appearance, multiple MVPs and damn near every scoring title.

    As much as I love Bird and Magic and hate Kobe he has definatenly pushed himself to that point where he is knocking at the door. However, one thing I don’t get is how people equate winning rings with greatness. Shouldn’t rings determine good teams and individual awards determine greatness?

    @ Y.G

    I give you Kobe maybe, but Duncan and Shaq? That is an interestign argument

    Rings Larry 3 Duncan 4 Shaq 4 (3 as the man)
    MVP’s Larry 3 Duncan 2 Shaq 1
    Finals MVP Larry 2 Duncan 2 Shaq 3
    Best year – Larry (’88 30-9.2-6.1) Duncan (’02 25.5-12.5-3.7) Shaq (’00 30-13.6-3.8)

    They are all evenly matched for me, though I would take Shaq out because he couldn’t sustain his dominance for a long period of time as well as constantly coming up second to Hakeem and David Robinson during his early years and also bouncing around the last couple of years.
    Duncan and Bird never missed the All-NBA first team until their twilight.

    Duncan is a perfect 4/4 in the Finals while Bird played in a more tough era. Duncan is the greatest PF while Bird is teh greatest SF. In the end I gotta give it to Bird as I have never seen a shooter domintae a game like he did, and he took it to legendary porportions with his rivalry with Magic that saved the league.

  • http://tolulope.edun@gmail.com Y.G.

     

     

    From: Edun, Tolulope O
    Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 8:45 AM
    To: ‘tolulope.edun@gmail.com’
    Subject:
     

    @Fallinup

    First of all, I have probably forgotten more about basketball than you will ever know son. Lets analysis the situation; First MJ never competed for a chip against the Showtime Lakers, when MJ met Magic in the finals the Lakers where plagued with injuries. MJ lucked out and caught Bird when his back was done; No DJ, and Kevin & Chief were past their prime. Also, MJ ran away from the NBA when my Uncle Dream was doing his thing.

    ** Kidd, A.I. Duncan, Ginobili,Melo, Portland Pipen, Allen, K.G., Pierce, Dirk, D. Will, Nash,  >>>Barkley, Stockton, Malone, Ewing, Zo,& Miller…**

     

  • http://www.cnnsi.com JAY

    @Ian
    “name one team in the 90s that could lose their best player and still win 54 games and make it to the conference finals and lose in 7?? ill wait take your time.”

    You don’t have to wait to long for an explanation. The Bulls filled in Jordan’s void with a top tier defender and brought in the Waiter. Pippen had help.

  • imjac1

    I just dont understand why people say shaq was so dominating, he didnt do anything with orlando. He came to LA with Kobe because he knew he needed the best player to help him get a championship, Shaq just had a bigger ego which is the reason why he wasnt happy, if he would of stayed in LA they would of won 6 or more easily(skip the year detroit beat them because that year detroit dominated everyone), once the lakers got fed up with him they gave him the boot and kept the better of the two players, KOBE stays and shaq walked. Shaq then goes on a rampage and trash talks kobe and the laker organization, i would be really happy if they dont retire shaqs jersey in LA. Now the sucker is a Celtic, all he’s worried about since he left the lakers is “how am i going to win more championships than kobe”. It aint going to happen, specially not with the Celtics. I see a Celtics vs Lakers rematch this year more than a Heat vs Lakers Final but we’ll just have to wait and see. Stern will keep ruining the NBA, setting up plots that keep ruining the game. The NBA is too much business now, not enough entertainment.

  • LakeShow84

    If Kobe wins THREE more rings then he should get his shine as POSSIBLY the Best EVER..

    If he wins 1 more next year it wont mean much but hes just halfway there..

    Personally Jordan’s stats are MIND BOGGLING when u really look at them.. i think everyone who knows basketball knows this.. someone else said it up there (GEE i think) that Kobe KNOWS he cant catch Jordan at this point.. Dude is just trying to put his up there RIGHT BEHIND Jordan.. he wants it to be Jordan and Bryant as the 2 greatest ever..

    And personally i say give him sometime and he will do it..

    And that Shaq “as the man” on those 3 chips is exactly the kinda dumb shit Shaq wanted all of you to think when he left..

    The biggest problem with Kobe’s legacy?? Shaquille O’Neal.. on a whole bunch of levels but oh well.. the more drive Kobe has to shit on Shaq the more us Laker fans benefit..

  • http://tolulope.edun@gmail.com Y.G.

    @Poppi Gee Kobe plays against a zone defense every night! Enough said.

  • http://www.cnnsi.com JAY

    @imjac1: Shaq averaged 35 and 15 in a Finals series. He was dominating. Teams had to double or triple team him. He was dominating.

    “He came to LA with Kobe because he knew he needed the best player to help him get a championship,”
    It didn’t happen that way. The Lakers traded Vlade for Kobe to make cap room to sign Shaq. Kobe was nothing when he signed in LA. Get the facts straight.

  • Sporty-j

    I was saying thats just how good Shaq was. Like Jordan was so good that they had the frecking Jordan rules. The Man was like a GOD and Wade, Lebron, and Kobe still sleep in there Micheal Jordan Pajama’s lol. Those guys are boys compared to Micheal whos a man. Lets stop starting everybody off with the Jordan comparisons when they come into the league because Jordan was not the only great player to ever play the game. Hes done the most for the game and thats why he should have his jersey retired in every Arena instead of wait until he dies 1 day. Lebron was always in the Magic Johnson mold because he always differed to his teammates compared to Wade or Kobe who just has to take the last shot like Jordan. Hell, Allen Iverson is more comparable to Jordan than Lebron mindset wise and if you put Iverson in Lebrons body the dude would have won Cleveland a championship by now..

  • imjac1

    One other thing, there is no such thing as “the man” in the NBA, its 5v5 not 1v1. I dont understand why people say that, it does take a killer instinct from a particular player on a team to carry them through tough moments but in the end its a team game, remember that or dont bother and go watch the YMCA basketball games.

  • LakeShow84

    But i also love the point someone made about the Shaq dominating the Finals..

    Cuz i remember IT WAS Kobe who dominated the Spurs and Kings and those were basically THE Finals in those years..

    Dont tell me it wasnt a GIVEN that whoever won the Lakers/Queens series would TAKE the Finals with no sweat.. Thats always bothered me.. Same with the Spurs.. shit for the early 2000’s if the Lakers didnt win it then the SPURS WON IT.. Kobe led the way out of the West back then.. but like i said

    That 3 rings “as the man” talk,

    Is exactly what Shaq wanted all of you to think about when u thought about Kobe..

    And the funniest part is even though Kobe has ascended that talk with 2 STRAIGHT Finals MVPS all of you still reference that BS..

    and whoever said Kobe dont show up in the Finals please look at last years Finals as well.. dont just pop up with game 7.. haters can be so WACK lol

  • LakeShow84

    @ JAY

    Thats pretty good explanation for MJ coming back but how about this one,

    MJ gambled away MILLIONS of dollars and was about to get BUSTED for that shit and Stern swept him under the rug.. call it an exile if you will..

    Then Stern ALLOWED (watch his FIRST retirement ann) him to come back and he returned and dominated the league..

    Even MJ’s fathers death had rumors of being tied to MJ’s gambling..

  • WinDelRoj

    Jordan had some great teams too so maybe I shouldnt have stated it that way. Lets just ignore the fact that Jordan didnt play the zone, since Kobe didnt have to play in as physical a game (Jordan would have demolished the zone cause his mid range was unstoppable)
    Lakers w/ Magic, Worthy, Byron Scott
    Suns w/ Barkley, KJ, Majerley, Tom Chambers
    Sonics w/Kemp, Payton, Schrempf
    Jazz w/ Malone, Stockton,
    Blazers w/ Drexler, Ainge, Porter, Cliff Robinson
    Im sorry but any of those finals opponents would have beasted the 76ers, Pacers, Nets and Magic that the Lakers played. Even if they werent allowed to physically beat them down. You mean to tell me the Lakers were expected to lose against those cupcakes? Weaker era? Right…

  • dapro

    Are cats really trying to make this a debate!! Damn it’s like some people just started watching basketball the last 4 seasons.

    If you never saw MJ, there is no way you can fathom the skills he had on the court. He dominated point blank.

    To the people who said MJ never had to face serious competition, learn your history young’n

    Majority of the 50 greatest players are from MJs era and that’s not including “Human Highlight Film”

    Kobe is the greatest player of generation, he’s earned that. I’m not even a Laker fan, but I respect the work Kobe has put in but let’s leave it there! There is Jordan, then every one else

  • imjac1

    @JAY: Who in the NBA had the size to lock down shaq? It was more of a size advantage then anything else. I’m sure if shaq would of stayed with orlando he wouldnt of accomplished anything. Why dont people say D-Wade needed shaq for that ONE ring, yeah because he’s not a laker. Damn laker haters. If wade gets carried to 6 championships by lebron and bosh will he be considered closer to jordan than kobe? Oh wait not really because they needed 3 top players to do so. Its pretty simple: Jordan was the best of his time, Kobe is the best of this time. People spend too much time hating on kobe to realize how great his game is. Lebron gets so much credit without accomplishing anything, i wonder what people would say if kobe on an interview would say “i spoil my fans with my play” im sure we wouldnt hear the end of that.

  • sdot

    Kobe’s resume will never compare to mj’s as far as mvp’s and scoring titles but as far as actual basketball talent and skills there’s nothing on the court mj could do that kobe can’t. If kobe gets # 6 against the superfriends I think you gotta give him the G.O.A.T. If he’s not better than money he’s the closest one hahaha.

  • WinDelRoj

    I exluded the Celtics cause they were actually legit

  • dapro

    Typo- Kobe is the greatest player of his generation,

    @Y.G

    you mentioned zone like it’s going to help your case. ANybody who knows anything about basketball knows the zone is the easiest defense to break down. If MJ played in the zone you could probably add 10 more points to his scoring average. His jumper was automatic! Players and teams were fundamentally sound back then so mentioning the zone is a moot point.

  • http://www.cnnsi.com JAY

    @imjac1: “Who in the NBA had the size to lock down shaq? It was more of a size advantage then anything else. ”

    You are totally writing off Shaq’s skill. He moved like no bigman ever moved. His footwork was amazing, he could jump, great hands, good passer… There have been MANY guys who were Shaq’s size, but weren’t shit because they only had size.

    “I’m sure if shaq would of stayed with orlando he wouldnt of accomplished anything.”
    He already reached the Finals. I’m sure the Orlando team would have made it back with a a foundation made of Shaq and Penny.

  • imjac1

    @JAY saying: One last thing, Jordan really has 8 rings. I don’t give a fuck if Hakeem is wearing 2 of them. We all know those 2 rings are Mike’s.

    LO flippin L, thats like saying kobe has 7 but chauncey billups is wearing one and Ray Allen is wearing the other. Just go back to sleep and dream up something else.

  • WESTCOAST

    fallinup shup up fool! Men are speaking here

  • Zpear

    Stop saying Kobe cant count his first 3 rings bc he wasnt the go to guy on those first 3 championship teams. Kobe could have easily been the one to lead that team to those 3 rings. Its ultimately the coaches decision who gets the most touches. Why doesnt anyone question Shaqs ability to get those rings without Kobe? Its a team sport and to be successful you need a core group. Kobe and Shaq comprised that core group.

  • http://www.cnnsi.com JAY

    @imjac:
    “Jordan was the best of his time, Kobe is the best of this time. People spend too much time hating on kobe to realize how great his game is.”
    -Dude, nobody is saying Kobe isn’t the best of THIS era. Nody is saying his game isn’t great. He’s just not on MJ’s level.

    “Why dont people say D-Wade needed shaq for that ONE ring, yeah because he’s not a laker”
    -Nobody is talking about it because nobody is saying otherwise. Why argue about something if there’s no argument?? It has nothing to do with the Lakers. Lol. That’s just silly. Wade needed Shaq… i’m sure we all agree. Next.

  • bullish513

    What are you smoking??? Clearly MJ is GOAT based on numbers,resume. So were does this argument derive?

    Top 10
    MJ
    Magic
    Wilt
    Kareem
    Russell
    Oscar
    Shaq
    West
    Hakeem
    Isaiah/Bird

    Kobe’s not even top 10 yet…..

  • http://www.cnnsi.com JAY

    @imjac
    “thats like saying kobe has 7 but chauncey billups is wearing one and Ray Allen is wearing the other. Just go back to sleep and dream up something else.”
    That’s not the same thing. Jordan won 3… left for 2yrs… then won 3. The 2 yrs he wasn’t around, Hakeem won the rings. Even when MJ was gone everyone was saying the best basketball player in the world is playing baseball. Then when he came back, he reclaimed the scoring throne, won the ring, and dominated the league by leading the team to a record 72 wins.

    Explain to me how your Billups/Allen theory is the exact same thing.

  • imjac1

    @JAY You know what, this has been a good conversation. I’m just glad as Chicago fans would say back in the day about MJ im going to say about Kobe being a laker, i’m glad he’s on my team.

  • Claw

    Kobe isn’t even in the Top 5, why are there even comparisons to Jordan? He’s nowhere close. I guess Dime needs to throw this out there since the Kobe – Lebron comparisons can’t be made now since Lebron has become a #2 on Wade’s team.

  • bullish513

    Jordan the only great to win multiple without a hof big man!!!!!!!!!!

  • fallinup

    @ Y.G.

    Hold the phones son.. I’m calling your asinine comment about this current era of basketball being as YOU STATED… “the most competitive era ever”. Which is by far, the most laughable statement I’ve read on these forums in a long while.

    And it’s obvious you’ve forgotten a TON about basketball more than I’ll ever know to say some nonsense like that.

    This era… with expansion… the rule changes… free agency gone wild… and pfft… your zone defense??? Zone defense??? Really????

    Check it broham. MJ’s era… yes… the mid/late 80’s and early 90’s (which I was referring to when you made that silly comment)… was by far, the most cut throat era ever.

  • jerome

    the only way that KB24 better then MJ23 is his athleticism on the court ..as for stats and trophies and rings(for now),MJ23 is the man..but for team mates and their passsion for the game and winning they are A PERFECT MATCH, just in different era’s

    as for Miami, Lebron,Wade and Bosh might have a chance to win this year but kobe will still be the best player in TODAY’s game beacause he didnt need the help of other 2 superstars…yes he may have artest and gasol but they are not a bosh and lebron….

  • fallinup

    @ 94

    …. competition wise.

  • fallinup

    @ 86

    Men with multiple nicknames I’m assuming.

  • WESTCOAST

    @fallinup shup up fool! Men are speaking here

  • http://www.cnnsi.com JAY

    @imjac. No doubt man. Good discussion for sure. I’m a Kobe fan too, don’t get me wrong. He’s way above the players today but MJ is still easily the GOAT.

    @fallinup
    I’ll be like Bosh and support your points #94-96. Anybody wanna be our LBJ??
    Blood in the 80s was a normal occurrence. Durant’s lanky-ass would be tied into a pretzel if he played in the 80s. He’s probably still score but he wouldn’t have as much fun as is looked like he was having this past year.

  • http://www.cnnsi.com JAY

    It’s been a long time since we reached 100 posts for an article.

  • http://www.cnnsi.com JAY

    One hundred!

  • JEAR18

    This can go on forever .. but KOME will always be 2nd to jordan .. dont get me wrong .. KOBE will probably gon down as one the top 10 all time greats when he done .. but he not surpassing MJ even if he wins this year .. as a lot of people already mentioned .. Numbers dont lie .. and i find it hilarious when people say “MJ played against CUPCAKE teams in all his FINALS” hahaha … if i remember correctly .. in KOBE’s first three finals the lakers met a PHILLY team that only had A.I. .. a NETS team that were alright and the Indiana pacers … WOW thats pretty tough compared to the cupcake teams MJ played against and dont forget who he had to play to get to those FINALS .. BAD BOY Pistons .. KNICKS .. and the PACERS when they were actually legit ..

    KOBE will go down as top ten all time greats like i said … but i dont see him surpassing MJ …

  • LakeShow84

    I feel bad for Kobes place in this era..

    Dude is an old school player at heart.. People say he couldnt HANDLE the old era?? Who else plays old school like Kobe?? he whines but he takes his lumps more than any other Superstar in the NBA besides Howard.. and coincedently they both led the league in tech’s lol

    But i say i feel bad for Kobes because Jordan NEVER had the NBA pushing someone else down our throats.. it was ALL MJ ALL the time.. nowadays we being spoon fed Lebron propaganda.. and the NBA even gives dude helping hands with the ref treatment..

    Jordan NEVER had to deal with the media like it is today.. shit the media damn nears DRIVES America.. Only in certain circles will you hear about Jordan being the womanizer, ASSHOLE that he truly was.. shit Kobe been on blast since 19 years old lol

    Kobe runs into ONE groupie who says he “raped” her.. she follows all the gold digger steps.. drops the criminal suit for basically money (civil suit).. gets caught slippin with other dudes and even though we ALL KNOW she was a runner who took it in the ass and tried to get cashed out, Kobe wins the Finals and people still call dude a rapist FIVE years later.. COUGHCeltsFanCOUGH lol

    Jordan never had a malcontent sidekick like Shaq was.. And i aint callin Shaq a sidekick but as far as partners in the trench goes.. DAMN lol Shaq picked Kobe up and threw him into the battlefield.. Whenever we won “Kobes the best player in the NBA”.. When we lost “Kobe aint playing right.. you gotta feed ME”.. Shit Pippen took it in the a$$ from the ever demanding Jordan.. And all KObe was was ever demanding.. Why defer to someone who aint got HALF the work ethic?? I mean did Shaq EVER practice FT’s?? an Alpha dog who cant close a game?? damn……

    Just examples of different eras and different dramas.. one thing is for sure.. you could NEVER say Kobes path to greatness was a cakewalk.. Dude has WORKED TIRELESSLY for everything given to him.. Jordans path MUCH different.. thats all ima say..

  • raytard

    I LOVE the Lakers, but everyone please MJ is a the goat….he’s like God don’t mention him in any sentence with anyone

  • control

    Why is it whenever Kobe is mentioned, if you don’t think he’s the GOAT, or #1 in every single category possible…you are a hater? The guy is great, no doubt, but wait until he stops playing before deciding where he ranks in the top 10 greatest players ever. Kobe jock riders just need to relax and take it easy…saying a guy could be a top 10 player in history once his career isn’t hating.

    Kobe will NEVER have the impact that Jordan had on basketball, globally. That can’t be disputed.

  • drew

    kobe wont surpass MJ, and im a huge kobe fan. but unlike many kobe nuthuggers or MJ fans who always downplay kobe’s accomplishments, let me say this.

    MJ’s allocades and are untouchable. no one even comes close, and that includes magic, bird, kareem, russell, etc.

    why cant we all just appreciate the 2 for who they are? kobe is an all-time great in his own right and imo will be a top 5 player when he retires.

    for all those saying MJ had no help, let me put it this way. pippen himself is underrated because the man was nasty as hell in his prime and arguably the greatest wing defender in nba history. dennis rodman? arguably the greatest pound for pound defender and rebounder EVER.

    as for all the kobe/shaq arguments, anyone who knows ball can admit that this was one of the most unique partnerships we’ve ever seen. kobe was most certainly the 2nd option in 2000. but in 2001 and 2002 him and shaq were BOTH 1st options. kobe was the main catalyst in the laker runs over sacramento and portland, which were the nba finals if you are realistic. that was where all the battles were won from 2000-2002.

    basketball is a game of matchups. even tho kobe may be the greater talent so to speak compared to shaq, even if prime MJ were on the same team in 2000-2002 hypothetically speaking you STILL feed shaq the ball because the most effective way is always the path of least resistance, and shaq simply had no one to matchup with in the finals every year.

    shaq himself said it in 2001 during the dominant playoff run when the lakers gelled… “kobe is the best player on the planet”. of course, this was before the major fued in that started in 2003.

    the one concept people dont seem to understand is that you can actually have 2 alpha males on a team. eg. if MJ and shaq were on the same team, does that make one of them “the pippen sidekick” role then? ive never understood why people are so ignorant about this concept and always have to downplay kobe just because they feel he’s threatening their idol MJ.

    the media also plays a big role. if kobe was half as loved as MJ or even had espn’s nuthugging they do for LBJ, we’d have these kobe discussions more often rather than having them downplayed.

    take a look at this kobe haters.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkvpnmAk2xU

    kobe 2nd fiddle? please. both were indispensable, and if dropping 45/10 and putting up better stats (which everyone uses against kobe) against the spurs in the WCF is 2nd fiddle, then i dont kno what to say.

    btw stats during the laker playoff runs in 2000-2002

    shaq
    2000 – 30.7 / 15.4 / 3.1
    2001 – 30.4 / 15.4 / 3.2
    2002 – 28.5 / 12.6 / 2.8

    kobe
    2000 – 21.1 / 4.5 / 4.4
    2001 – 29.4 / 7.3 / 6.1
    2002 – 26.6 / 5.8 / 4.6

  • George W Kush Sr

    “imjac1 says:

    I just dont understand why people say shaq was so dominating, he didnt do anything with orlando. He came to LA with Kobe because he knew he needed the best player to help him get a championship,…”

    You sure about that buddy? You might wanna look it up next time before looking stupid. Kobe did good for himself, but y’all nuthuggers need to put the crack pipe down, smh

  • http://www.cnnsi.com JAY

    @drew
    Do you expect us to read that shit??? Most of us are at work. That post is longer than the damn article.

  • Stunnaboy09

    @drew

    Facts are:

    1.)Shaq put up better numbers than Kobe every year regular season or playoffs.

    2.) Having one good games deosn’t prove anything, Mo Williams dropped 50 points recently does that mean anything to his role as Brons sidekick

    3.) Shaq won EVERY Finals MVP. Every. Single. One. what does that tell you?

    4.) As for your stats argument, McHale out up 26-10 one season, those are alpha dog numbers, yet somehow we all remember him as Birds sidekick. Why was that? Cuz Bird put up 28-9-7.6 that same year. Being a sidekick doesn’t mean you are not dominant, it just means you got someone on your team who is MORE dominant. nothing to be ashamed of

  • JEAR18

    Lakershow84 – i understand what u saying … but besides the RAPE debacle .. i believe MJ went through the same level of pressure with the MEDIA .. i mean this is MJ we talking about .. when he was playing .. the sports MEDIA was on him and only him .. especially when he couldnt get over the PISTONS 3 years in row .. peeps were ready to write him off .. but thats what made MJ so great … dude just came back the next year basically with the same team … no demanding of TRADES if they didnt add anybody to help him win … he took the same team .. he swept the pistons next time around.

    and yeah SHAQ was a DIVA … but u cant tell me that he wasnt the leader of those titles teams .. he was the most dominate .. and yeah he probably wouldnt have won it with out KOBE and the rest of the guys .. and same wit MJ and PIP … but there is no denying that SHAQ was the leader … and for people to say “well MJ had a HOF in PIP to play with” .. yall dont think SHAQ gon be in the HOF ..??? and big difference in adding a player like shaq to a team then drafting a nobody .. i mean really who knew who scottie pip was in that draft?? LOL .. MJ demanded PIP to improve and it that made they friendship hard at times … but i am sure PIP is greatful now ..

    u give MJ the SHAQ in his prime .. and they win the same amount or maybe even more … u give KOBE .. PIP and Will purdue or Luc Longley or Bill Wellington … and i not so sure they go three peat .. maybe one …

  • the truth

    Kobe’s in the same league, but don’t forget Jordan could have won 8 titles in a row had he not taken a break to play baseball. And maybe even more than 8 had he played in 99 or 2000. Kobe is number 2 though in my book

  • where high ankle sprains happen

    as huge of a kobe fan as i am i don’t think he will surpass mj as g.o.a.t n u can definitely right off lefag from the conversation now.

    the one that will creep up on mj and he’s already putting in work is Kevin Durant.

  • Ekstor

    My props to you for writing such a gutsy article.

    I would argue however that the Bulls first ring against Magic Johnson’s Lakers was as the underdog. In fact, if memory serves me correct, I don’t think they were projected to make it to the finals that year.

    As for the comments about Pippen, I’d just like to remind everyone that while MJ is GOAT… he didn’t win anything until he had an all-star swingman and all-star forward to complement his talents. Until Pippen matured to that point, they couldn’t win and unless they had either Horace Grant or Dennis Rodman, they couldn’t have done it either.

  • drew

    @ jay
    true, just wanted to group all my thoughts under one post rather than multiple ones.

    @stunnaboy09
    you cant have it both ways in regards to the stats argument. people always use stats against kobe when compared to MJ, now that kobe has an “advantage” with stats you compare his impact to mo williams? cmon.

    winning every single finals mvp? let me put it this way. if prime MJ was on the same team, shaq STILL might have won 3 straight finals mvps. it’s a game of matchups my friend.

    @jear18
    i agree with your arguments for the most part. that’s why MJ is the GOAT.

    on a side note.. everyone brings up kobe’s game 7 against the celtics this year but did everyone conveniently forget duncan’s struggles in game 7 against the pistons in 2005 and MJ’s struggles in the finals against the 1996 sonics? the double standard is too obvious.

  • buffalo balla

    let me end this shit right now….

    how many ballers in this blog wear or
    own any JORDAN brand gear?

    “raise my hand”

    how many wear KOBE BRAND?!

    *walks out, closes door…*

  • http://davidsmith234@aol.com David

    @ Everyone the comparison of Kobe and MJ are valid. Because every NBA analyst thinks so but mainly because Kobe patterned his game after MJ.

    Is Kobe better? No I do think it close but MJ’s dominance should not be understated. I love Kobe, but MJ broke the NBA mold.

    For those using MVP’s and Stats, please stop. The MVP voting is made by Journalist who may have never picked up a Basketball, let alone judge talent. And KObe couldnt help the fact his career started where he wasn’t the face of a franchise. Many of you say MJ mad Pippen, and I agree a little,but SHAQ had no hand in making KOBE!!

    So stop belittling what Kobe has done, if you don’t agree just say Kobe is the Best of his Era. But whatever you say DO NOT and I mean DO NOT, say Lebron is better than KOBE!!! That definitely is not a fair comparison, yet Lebron has more MVPs???? I am shaking my head.

  • LakeShow84

    @ JEAR

    There werent ANY camera phones back then lol and dont get me wrong.. im not arguing Kobe will surpass MJ in anyway just sayin different eras with MUCH more hardships..

    And like i said ever since the Shaq/Colorado case all the media exposure of Kobe has been lightweight NEGATIVE.. only until last year was he revered as more of a hero.. dude was called dirty for hitting people out the corner of his eyes GTFOH lol Kobes dirty but hes way more sneaky dirty lol

    Even since Shaq left everyone gotten on dude HARD.. Once Jordan passed the Pistons and made it into the Finals the NBA was his, if it wasnt before.. The NBA wasnt pushing Clyde, Wilkins or Magic harder than MJ.. Shit after 60 in the garden the NBA was basically MJ’s.. he gained DOUBTERS in those 3 year BadBoy years but his normal perception never TRULY suffered..

    Kobes perception been through the wash.. just sayin..

  • http://davidsmith234@aol.com David

    @ Everyone the comparison of Kobe and MJ are valid. Because every NBA analyst thinks so, but mainly because Kobe patterned his game after MJ.

    Is Kobe better? No, I do think it close but MJ’s dominance should not be understated. I love Kobe, but MJ broke the NBA mold.

    For those using MVP’s and Stats, please stop. The MVP voting is made by Journalist who may have never picked up a Basketball, let alone judge talent. And KObe couldnt help the fact his career started where he wasn’t the face of a franchise. Many of you say MJ made Pippen, and I agree a little, but SHAQ had no hand in making KOBE!!

    So stop belittling what Kobe has done, if you don’t agree just say Kobe is the Best of his Era. But whatever you say DO NOT and I mean DO NOT, say Lebron is better than KOBE!!! That definitely is not a fair comparison, yet Lebron has more MVPs???? I am shaking my head. I think this more than anything, is why Kobe supporters may go over the top and say Kobe is better than MJ. But, both are not right and are not fair.

  • LakeShow84

    @ Stunnaboy

    Tony Parker won MVP in the 2006 Finals.. Personally i think Duncan shoudlve taken it..

    Someone please show me a list of who guarded Shaq in the early 2000 Finals?? i think one of the Collins took a shot in there lol

  • drew

    @lakeshow84

    i also want to point out that in today’s era, finals mvp and mvp’s in general are overrated. im not saying that because kobe has won only 1 mvp, but based on many people’s silly argument against kobe, shaq himself has only 1 mvp and steve nash has 2. does that make nash > shaq? imo hell no.

    does billup’s 04 finals mvp mean ben wallace was his sidekick? just saying.

  • https://twitter.com/PoppiGEE POPPI GEE

    Kobe could barely and couldn’t at one time handle the Boston Celtics with today’s rules.

    I honestly just don’t see Kobe being able to deal with The Bad Boyz (Detroit Pistons) as Jordan did.

    Only way Kobe ever getting passed Jordan is in a video game. And even then you got to go through a lot just to Unlock Jordan when Kobe is just…there.

    Kobe still the best of this era, ain’t nobody seeing him. Yes not even LeBron kids.

    And EVEN IF Kobe were to say get more rings and mvp’s and stuff , still just because of “impact” he will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER pass Jordan and that ain’t even up for discussion.

    I will say though if Kobe was to come before Jordan we would be saying that Jordan would never pass Kobe cause Kobe would have been the one to have that “impact” on the game.

    Kobe may be top 5 dead or alive, but Jordan is #1 bottom line by mistake or design. Done.

  • http://davidsmith234@aol.com David

    By the way if it wasn’t a fair comparison, then you loyal MJ fans wouldn’t care. Because I remember hearing these names compared to MJ over the years Tracy McGrady, VINCE CARTER, Penny Hardaway, Grant Hill, and Lebron James. I dont recall MJ fans being so passionate at defending those names. Know why, because they aren’t close or should they be in the discussion.

    For those who say KObe choked in Game 7, and that MJ never had such a game to end a series. I beg to difffer. Go to NBA reference.com and look at the 1995-96 season. MJ in Game 6 of the NBA finals (close out game) shot 5-19 (26%) had 22pts, 9rebs, and 7 ast. Look similar to Kobe’s 6-24 (25%) 23pts, 15rebs, and 2ast. But many people have selective memories. Life is funny that way.

  • fallinup

    @ lakeshow and drew

    But you gotta look at them stats… is my point. Awards aside because I understand the rationalization. But look at them STATS. You could argue who was more polished coming into the league when you compare Mamba and MJ… but still though. Season stats… Playoff stats… this and only this is proof that MJ is GOAT to me. But you throw in the impact, and total domination of the league. Well, there ya go.

    Don’t get me wrong. And I’m one to admit… I didn’t start really appreciating Kobe until after Shaq left and he was losing in the playoffs. Kobe is one hell of a player and one of my faves.

    But you just can’t compare.

  • drew

    @fallinup

    i dont think lakeshow84 or myself have even once said MJ wasnt the GOAT. he is the best ever.

    but that doesnt mean kobe isnt a top 10 or top 5 player ever depending on your opinion. that’s all.

    we ask for objectivity when comparing players, something many people seem to struggle with.

  • Lee

    What we all need to remember is Kevin Durant is only 21 years old and spent part of his summer helping to coach his Vegas team. This guy has dedication.

    Also, for everyone saying they’ll never be another Mike or Kobe, they seem to turn up every 10 years. We also got robbed of Penny and Grant Hill who could have been in the GOAT conversation.

  • OFFICIAL

    MJ is not the G.O.A.T. because he won 6 rings… He is the best that ever laced them up cause he was the NBA, the only player that would come on the court and dominate all aspects of it if he had to… Kill yaself for this article son… Kobe is no MJ…. C’Mon my dude…. SMDH

  • Jonathan

    Kobe HATERS who mostly are Jordan D-Riders who make it a point to defend Jordan’s legacy at all times always first reach to defend Jordan and try to discredit Kobe’s first ring with Shaq is to funny and pretty sad. Seriously these same people go onto sites like this and other basketball forums, Laker forums, and blogs saying the same crap since 2002. Seriously you Jordan lovers make it sound like Kobe was a scrub or bench player on the Lakers 3 peat teams last decade. Bottom line is this fact. Shaq without Kobe would NEVER have won those 3 rings even if you Kobe HATERS try to argue that the Lakers could have won those rings with just another player playing Kobe’s role on those championship squads like T-Mac, Allen Iverson,Vince Carter, Jason Kidd or whoever back in those.

  • JR

    the last 3 chips Jordan won was in a watered down expansion laced league…. having said that, MJ is still greater, not only coz of what he did on the court, but coz what he meant to the league. He helped the NBA become the most watched American sports league in the world. Kobe can’t and won’t achieve that. However Kobe’s talents is the closest we have seen to MJ and that is part of the reason why he has almost as many people who hate him as those who love him.

  • http://tolulope.edun@gmail.com Y.G.

    @ Poppi Gee
     
    ‘I honestly just don’t see Kobe being able to deal with The Bad Boyz (Detroit Pistons) as Jordan did.”
     
    Really? You must be high! Kobe has played with a broken index finger (most important finger on the shooting hand) & a damaged pinky finger. Lets look at some of the the defenders Kobe has killed: Pipen, Bowen, Doug Christie, & the Celts entire defense. Also, it could be argued that the Celts & the Jail Blazers defenses were as or more physical than the Bad Boyz. Please don’t forget Kobe being slammed by Raja Bell or pushed by Donte Jones. KOBE=TOUGH S.O.B. Could play and dominate any era of basketball.
     
    For those of you that premise their argurement on the number of MVP’s Jordan has vs Kobe, listen to David. The MVP award has lost a lot of prestige due to Malone, Nash’s second award & Dirk.
     
    @Dapro Your basketball IQ is weak.
    I would love to see Kobe play against one on one defenses like MJ did. You guys cannot overlook how the zone rule has made it harder for scorers to get to the paint and finish. Remember how MJ would have the whole entire side of the court isolated and weak-side defenders weren’t allowed to zone up. It would be scary to see what Kobe’s numbers would be under the old illegal defense rule.
    MJ would probably score less since his mid-range jumper & 3pt game is lacking when compared to Kobe’s.
     
    For those Jordan nutthuggers, please provide me with promient defenders that MJ torched. So I can respond, and destroy.
     

  • control

    This should get the conversation over 200 posts…If LeBron came into the league paired with a guy who was probably the most dominate center in history (in his prime)…how many rings would he have by now? If Kobe didn’t have Shaq to start his career off, this conversation wouldn’t exist. If Kobe wasn’t on the Lakers, this conversation wouldn’t exist. Biggest difference between Kobe and MJ, is that Kobe benefits A LOT more from the circumstance he was placed in than Jordan. Jordan probably would have been Jordan if he were drafted by Portland…If Kobe wasn’t traded to the Lakers, but instead played in Charlotte, would we even be talking like he had a chance to be the GOAT? Unlikely…

    Johnathan

    It ain’t being a Kobe hater saying that Shaq could have won a ring with another good sg. TMac was better than Kobe for a long time when he was healthy, he’d be flossing rings if he were paired with Shaq.

  • Ian

    stunna
    i dont think i can pick bird over duncan he couldnt guard todays sf can u imagine bird tryin to run after kd and lbj?? duncans defense puts him (imo of course) ahead of bird. remember bird did win but he had a top 5 pf all time next to him td won with anything playin sf. if td can win one more with jefferson playin the 3 then its a no contest.

    someone mentioned that dreams 95 ring is jordans ehhhh jordan did play in 95 and he got bounced dont come out tryin to say well he was getting in shape because had he won he gets a ring. he played and he lost it happens big deal but dont say that someone else doesnt deserve the ring. besised how do you know he beats the rockets in the finals jordans teams didnt do well against top centers they were 2-10 vs the spurs and rockets during the first threepeat.

    bullish
    sureeee isiah over kobe and td.

    jay
    goh with that garbage. like i said he might be the goat but no one had a better team in the 90s not even close. still waitin on the team.

    y.g.
    agree

    lakeshow actually i kinda agree with you thats why i have kobe ranked higher than shaq alltime.

    jerome

    “as for Miami, Lebron,Wade and Bosh might have a chance to win this year but kobe will still be the best player in TODAY’s game beacause he didnt need the help of other 2 superstars…yes he may have artest and gasol but they are not a bosh and lebron….”

    that is the exact same reason i say td is the best of the generation not kobe from 99-03 td won 2 and shaq and kobe 3 but shaq and kobe had eact other and those were the top 3 players at the time.

  • jose manuel

    Mr 81 is the best ever.

    In the 1980s and 1990s there was far far less competition than now days… hint: international players.. actually… since the 1980s more teams were formed.. NOw this is a global game.. Bac in the 1980s-1990s it wasn’t as much as now.

  • Ian

    lol control thats the same example i use to say how overrated jeter is. that is the man played for kansas city putting up the same stats he would just be another allstar nothing special. now that said yes tmac woulda won all those rings with shaq.

  • Quin

    Are you all insane? First of all if it werent for the role players and miraculous last second shots throughout the playoffs Lakers wouldnt have won three rings. Someone said they werent thanking Kobe???? Are you insane????? Kobe has has some of his greatest performances in the playoffs after Shaq was in foul trouble, came back and pretty much won the game for them, and dont forget he was what 20???? In our three peat we walked all over the eastern conference champions, but thats because the east was and still is in a sense, weak.

    Kobe is gonna go down as 1 or 2 greatest of all time. I love Jordan, I give the man EXTREME respect because he has earned it, but at the same time he did have a HOF inductee on his team, and some of the greatest role players ever put together on one squad, and not to mention the greatest coach in the history of the game. So extremely great players in Shaq and Kobe with ridiculous luck on our side in the post season? Or the G.O.A.T and a great player with some of the best benches ever assembled? I mean either way they all needed help that was above the rest to get the job done.

    Everyone can post all the stats they want but stats lie. Phil Jackson, does it make sense that he only has one coach of the year? Seriously? Kobe only has one MVP because of the way the voting is structured, its all AP, if the players had the majority vote for who MVP should be Kobe would have more and PJ would have more than one coach of the year. Theres plenty about MJ’s game that was better than Kobe’s, but theres also plenty about Kobe’s game that Jordan didn’t have. Put someone else in Kobe’s place, would the lakers have their first three peat? Dont give Jordan Pippen would he had EVER gotten a championship? One thing I will say is, when Jordan and Pippen werent on the same team, neither one of them won…Shaq left and he sat the bench for the majority of the Heats championship, not to mention they were playing the greatest chokers of all time in the Dallas Mavericks..Kobe has won without his Dominant other, and not just won, but 2 time champs and 1 western conference championship with more to look for in the future.

  • K

    fuck this “if kobe wins 1 more ring then start the conversation” bullshit. He Kobe is comparable to MJ right now. Skill wise, success wise etc. Im the biggest jordan fan there was but evenill admit that there a re a few things that Kobe does better than Jordan such as shoot and Kobe has a better handle. Kobe is a top ten all time talent the league has ever seen and is the 2nd best two guard ever. But it isnt rediculous to say he is comparable to jordan

  • LakeShow84

    @ Control

    You cant say that because Kobe was the best player on the wing in the NBA since around 20.. who knows what Charlotte surrounds him with 2 compete.. And New Orleans was even in the East back then.. i can see Kobe comin out the East back then with a mediocre squad.. And he most likely wouldve been facing the Spurs or the Kings right?? Who was the Spur/King killer even with Shaq leading the way?? yeah thats right

    And TMac was the main man on his team.. Kobe had to defer and was still just as hot a scorer.. Plus TMac AINT NEVER BEEN AllDefensive 1st team so that TMac was better than Kobe talk is your opinion.. and it off..

    Who knows what TMac wouldve done to mess up the chips won those years lol i remember that Dallas series he was so close to winning.. one of those games (5,6) hes taken the ball up court NONCHALANTLY when they need a big bucket and someones comes and pokes the ball off him, outta bounds.. They lost that game damn near because of that play..

    just an example of how hard it is to ACTUALLY WIN on the NBA level.. you cant plug players into old championships teams and say “oh this players wouldve done better”.. you say give Lebron Shaq and he wins??

    I dunno because Kobe hit some BIG shots for those chips.. And to even make it simpler Kobe hit some big FT’s for those chips and Lebron aint exactly a LOCK at the line during those HUGE games..

    Its the little things like that that u gotta think bout..

    Even VC.. dude bricked those 2 big ass FT’s THIS PAST YEAR as a VETERAN with LOTS OF playoff experience.. Could you count on him to hit those in the Finals 6-7 years younger??? i would say NO..

    Just examples..

  • JEAR18

    @jonathan – i dont think anybody is making it sound like KOBE was a average player during the three peat run … i think people just saying SHAQ was the leader of those teams … just like now u say KOBE is the leader of the last two he won right ?? .. i mean do u say .. yeah PAU lead the lakers these past two titles ??? i dont think so..like i said earlier .. SHAQ couldnt have done it without KOBE and MJ couldnt do it without PIP .. but there is no doubt SHAQ and MJ were the lead role in those title runs …

    @jose manuel – i could say that the L was way mroe rough to play in than todays game. U really think KOBE would score 81 in the late 80’s and early 90’s ???

  • Ian

    lakeshow
    yout are dreaming if your think charlotte with kobe and no big like shaq were going to beat the spurs or kings.

  • Ian

    jear
    the raps didnt exist back then and there is no other team that soft to allow that shit

  • JEAR18

    Exactly IAN .. i mean that whole playing in a different ERA argument is suspect to use … yes there is better athletes now … while kobe is getting doubled and sometimes tripled today.. MJ had the samething thrown at him and the u add that he was going against TEAMS that wanted to rough him up everytime he had the ball …

  • WinDelRoj

    @129 Gary Payton 1
    Joe Dumars
    Dennis Rodman 2
    John Starks
    Sidney Moncrief 2
    The numbers next to the names are the number of DPOY honors the player received (the few names you dropped have 0). moot point since both saw double teams and collapsing defenses. But I stand by the fact that Jordan going up against guys like John Starks w/ Patrick Ewing and Oakley behind is worse than anything Kobe has ever seen.

    @132 it is a global game. but why? #23 Ive met people from all over the world, its pretty much consensus.

    Kobe is the 2nd best ever. You cant take the champions belt unless you knock him out. You will always lose by decision. If the numbers dont beat MJs (DPOY, Scoring Titles, MVPs, Final MVPs, rings as the man) then how can you win public opinion? as previously stated, Robert Horry has a lot of rings that dont mean jack as an individual accolade.

  • http://www.cnnsi.com JAY

    @Ian: “goh with that garbage. like i said he might be the goat but no one had a better team in the 90s not even close. still waitin on the team.”
    -Are you talking about this response? “The Bulls filled in Jordan’s void with a top tier defender and brought in the Waiter. Pippen had help.”

    How is that garbage? Kukoc and Harper were key. They are the reasons the Bulls did well immediately after.
    Be real bro. Get your emotions in check. Think rationally. Without those Kukoc and Harper, a lineup of BJ Armstrong, Myers, Pippen, Ho. Grant, and Longley aren’t even making the playoffs.

    If you remove Wade from Miami, and replace him with an intelligent top tier defender who was a 20pt scorer, and another jack-of-all trade player, the Heat will still be able to stay competitive because of Lebron.

    Are you honestly saying the first 3-peat Bulls had the most talent 1 through 5 than anybody else in the league?? Fuck no bud. They had Jordan/Pippen…. that’s it. The other guys, outside of Grant, wouldn’t start on half the teams in the league.

  • LakeShow84

    @ Ian

    Aye you never know lol and my point was Shaq didnt dominate the Kings with Vlade playing his floppy yet incredibly intelligent D and Shaq didnt dominate the Spurs which is why you hate you hate Kobe so much lol

    Be real.. who did the most damage to you guys back then?? Shit if it wasnt for Kobe Bryant Bruce Bowen might never have had a job lol

  • Crew Dizzy

    In my opinion there definetly is at least a conversation regarding who’s better. From looking at the comments most sre pro Jordsn. I can see why people say that Kobe isn’t better than Jordan at this point but i think he has the potential to be. If he wins two more rings he’s the goat in my book. I believe he’s played against better comp than Jordan. The wing players that he’s played against in their primes: Vince, Tmac, LBJ, Wade, durant, Melo, Grant Hill (early on). What great wing players were around in their primes with mj? The only ones I can think of are drexler and nique. By the time he could get through bird his back was done… He beat an old Magic with HIv . In the finals he had gary payton and kevin johnson trying to D him up. Good defenders but out of position, this shows the lack of wing talent at that time. With the zone defense rules and the emergence of the lockdown defenders I think this era is higher talent level. I think eras get progressively better, I mean if shaq played in the Mikan era he would of killed folks. The overall athletic competion, game preparation, training levels, and scouting are all better now than when Jordan played which makes it harder to be dominant. Which is why Kobe deserves an immense amount of credit for being able to do what he’s done is this era. Maybe not the GOAT yet, but if he keeps it up in my opinion he’s on his way.

  • Ian

    jay
    you keep giving me names i asked what other team can lose its best player and be better than the squad the bulls had?? comonnnn im not bashing you or anything but that isnt what i asked.

    windel
    comon now you are gonna make me defend kobe man i hate you for it. starks with ewing back there is worst than anything kobe had to go thru??? bowen with td and the admiral back there is 100 times better defensively (well on everything really) than the knicks trio.

  • Sporty-j

    Kobe was born into the league with a silver spoon in house mouth and was basicly handed a championship and a great team. Jordan came in the league and had to fight to get a team put around him. I also like what the 1 poster said. If Lebron was born into a great organization that cares about winning and knows what it takes. Would the results have been any different or better because Cleveland nos nothing about winning. Im not just talking about the basketball organization either…

  • Ian

    lakeshow
    i know kobe did more damage vs us than shaq. shit i miss bowen

  • JEAR18

    there is that argument “KOBE faced better competition” again .. sorry but MJ wasnt gaurd by just a wing player .. dude had the whole team go after him LOL .. it was just one player D’ing him up .. it was the whole team .. and the fact it was rougher and a flagrant foul today was basically a ticky tack back then makes a big difference .. and his first 7 years in the L it was basically him … PIP didnt start gettin recognized until the Finals agaisnt the LAKERS .. dude had to do WORK with AVERAGE help really .. KOBE had the luck to get a SHAQ to play with in the beginning .. what did KOBE do after they broke up and he was surrounded by AVERAGE players for 3-4 years ?? elimanted in the first round twice i believe and didnt make it that far in one the years .. then he went on and demanded to be traded and all that … then the basketball gods granted him another wish .. and they got PAU for KWAME and a bag of potato chips ..

  • https://twitter.com/PoppiGEE POPPI GEE

    Y.G.

    Not high playboi, just can see the light which you are blind too.

    Apparently it’s really no sense in going on as you are one who thinks Kobe can do all.

    If I say Kobe can’t turn water in to wine you will defend him on that too lol.

    “Also, it could be argued that the Celts & the Jail Blazers defenses were as or more physical than the Bad Boyz.”

    Really? Those defenses have not make Kobe carry the cross that M.J. had to roll with.
    I ain’t saying Kobe ain’t tough, I’m just saying while he is tough he has had more than his fair share of moments where he crumbled under pressure. Not saying M.J. didn’t have his few moments.

    Bottom-line is as great as Kobe is, and he is great, by article standards he is NOT going to pass M.J. and the way ol boy starting to get damaged …he may not pass the heat or celtics this year.

    Course Kobe can turn water to wine right? LOL

  • LakeShow84

    I cant wait to take this Finals from you Sporty-J.. its going to be ILLUSTRIOUS lol

    Cleveland did all they could do they just had a diva who believes he is bigger than basketball bottomline..

    Cleveland made moves YEAR after YEAR for him.. aint no ones fault but Bron.. Cleveland has been ANYTHING but stagnant in their attempts to appease the queen.. Shit only team i could think of doing more for they team was Denver..

    Toronto, New Orleans, Memphis, etc.. those are teams that dont know how to win.. Cleveland UPGRADED every year they had Bron..

    so wack..

  • LakeShow84

    @ JEAR

    Read the articles on illegal defenses and zones.. he wasnt D’d up by the whole team.. illegal defense son..

    @ Ian

    Thanks for agreeing :) im 3/200 with you now right?? lol

  • LakeShow84

    oooooooo 48 more!!! lol

  • JEAR18

    @lakershow84 – good point LOL .. just saying that .. the whole faced better competition argument is WEAK …

    like i said .. KOBE will gon down as one of the top ten players EVER … but he not going to surpass MJ .. even if he wins this coming up season .. the ring totals is just a piece of the GOAT title puzzle ..

  • Tee

    Seriously this is a stupid article! Tell Kobe to avg .500 pct for a season from the field for once in his career! Tell Kobe to garner 160 blks,the most all time for a guard! Tell Kobe to lead the league in Steals ! Tell Kobe to become Defensive Player of the league one time! Tell Kobe to avg 37.1 pts a game! Tell Kobe to win 7 scoring championships in a row! Tell Kobe to avg the most points per game in NBA history! And finally, tell Kobe to win 72 games in a season and maybe, just maybe he will be the G.O.A.T.!!!!!

  • MSL

    “One last thing, Jordan really has 8 rings. I don’t give a fuck if Hakeem is wearing 2 of them. We all know those 2 rings are Mike’s.”

    This is what some said earlier, and people really don’t seem to know their history when they talk this way.

    How dare you say that about Olajuwon Man!!???

    During his second season in the NBA, Hakeem led the Rockets to the NBA finals, by dominating the Los Angeles Lakers in the Western Conference Finals and losing to one of the best teams in NBA history (the 86 Celtics) in six games, where he averaged 31 points a game. What was Jordan doing? Nothing! He didn’t sniff the finals till his 7th season.

    Let’s be clear! Hakeem should of been the one winning 8-10 titles, while Jordan was only winning scoring titles in the east.

    Unfortunately for Hakeem, the teams three best guards (Lewis Lloyd, Mitchell Wiggins, John Lucas) flunked out of the NBA for drug violations and Ralph Sampson’s knees gave out. Nobody remembers this. Do you?

    IF that Rocket team would of stayed healthy and intact, Hakeem could of ran off 9-10 Championships and Jordan would of probably never sniffed one (and everyone would be riding Hakeem’s nut instead of Jordan’s). Don’t believe me? Look at the teams he beat to get to the finals and ultimately lost to that great Celtics team in six games, as a second year player. But the Rockets lost 4 of their top 6 players the next season. Can you imagine that? Jordan would of been considered just another great scorer who couldn’t win the big one if those guys would of stayed in the league and Sampson healthy.

    So the pure fact that Hakeem endured numerous Rocket Re-building projects over the years and was able to win two titles 8 and 9 years later is a testament to Hakeem’s greatness and will to win.

    You don’t realize how wrong you are by saying that. Hakeem should of been the one with 8-10 Championships (in his mind I’m sure), not Jordan But like Kurtis blow said Those “Are the breaks”. Right? So if anyone should be given the aforementioned “break” for Jordan’s departure, it should of been Olajuwon.

    Nobody remembers this!

    Shoot! Jordan should send a check to Lucas, Wiggins and Lloyd for flunking out the NBA’s drug Policy & pay for surgery to re-build Sampson’s knees for old times sake. Cause those bad things for Hakeem and the Rockets worked out very well for Jordan and the Bulls.

  • Ian

    lol 3/200 we have agreed that many times ?????

  • sh!tfaced

    oh shit, another long ass debate… LOL

  • Dapro

    @ Yg

    Seriously bruh,the illegal defense was in place towards the end of MJs career. He dropped 40 @ 40 years old. Having said that it wouldn’t be shit for Mike to drop 40 in today’s game. I give Kobe his due, def one of the best ever, but not in the same convo as Mj

  • Crew Dizzy

    @ Sporty J

    Handed championships? He earned those my friend. You must not remember Kobe air balling in Utah or the lakers getting swept by the spurs in ’99 in the western conference semis the last game in the fabulous forum. Kobe may have come in with unwarranted hype but he lived up to the hype. Of all the people who were supposed to come at Mjs throne (Harold Minor, Grant Hill, Vince Carter, Penny) KB24 is the only one who did cause he had the competitive spirit and dedication to do so. He earned his rings and respect, if anything people try to down play his career. One MVP for him is rediculous and he scored 81 he got criticized for it. Kobe has to beat the respect and recognition out of the media he wasn’t handed rings or anything else.

  • Jonathan

    Post 131. This part is fucking IDIOTIC and straight HATER talk:

    “It ain’t being a Kobe hater saying that Shaq could have won a ring with another good sg. TMac was better than Kobe for a long time when he was healthy, he’d be flossing rings if he were paired with Shaq.”

    T-Mac even in his prime before all of his injuries and was leading the league in scoring on sorry ass Magic teams was NOWHERE close to Kobe’s level and should never be mentioned in the same breath with Kobe when it comes to player discussions. All T-Mac has done and is known for in his career is that he’s a great scorer and thats it! T-Mac NEVER has played or been known for his defense like Kobe. He’s hit a few clutch shot but is nowhere as clutch as Kobe has been throughout his entire career. Bottom line is T-Mac is not a winner and is a LOSER. Dude had his chance in Houston when he had a healthy Yao Ming and was getting all the HYPE as the next dynasty after the Lakers 3 peat dynasty last decade and could not get it done.

  • control

    GEE

    I am waiting for the article that pretty much SAYS Kobe has turned water into wine. I wouldn’t be surprised if Kobe actually dies during a game in the playoffs next year, and manages to be resurrected 3 days later, and then plays 44 minutes that night, of course.

    LakeShow

    I am curious, if Kobe had started off in a city like Cleveland, would he be known worldwide? I just don’t see it happening…

    But, come on, if Cleveland made moves each year to get better, then you are thereby saying that the team they had last year was the best team. That team, as we’ve debated before, is garbage (the teams before were…whatever worst than garbage is). There’s no point arguing, in 8 months when the Cavs are like 9-75, my point will be made…

    You ever been to Cleveland? There ain’t a damn thing that knows how to win in that piece of shit city.

    Bottomline is, Kobe came into the league with a team that had Shaq in his prime, and a few decent role players on it. LeBron James came into the league on a team that had…LeBron James on it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/profile.php?id=517691327 David Ruffin

    Do you people actually READ the article or do you just click the title and decide to make a comment? The later seems to be the case.
    When Jordan’s name is mentioned people use words like legacy, g.o.a.t., inpact on the game etc, etc. I understand. The thought of another player being better or just as good as Mike is nonsense to some. The thought of that player being named Kobe Bean Bryant is outright blasphemy. They began to spew out Jordan’s accolades & numbers; then proclaim, ” Numbers don’t lie!”. Maybe not; but they do mislead. But that’s another conversation.

    I have a thought of mine that I like to call a “theory”. Bear with me.
    A “Kobe Hater” is simply a confused admirer. It is universally accepted that Kobe stole Mike’s game, even down to the occassional wagging of the tongue. Kobe even mimics Mike’s post game interviews. It seems as if Kobe studied all the Jordan tapes and watch all the interviews.
    BUT we all did! I don’t know anyone who played basketball and didnt at one point want to be Jordan( ‘cept cavs fans). Kobe never grew out of wanting to be Jordan. He would ultimately become better than you and anybody else at pretending to be Jordan. And some people cant handle that. They say, “Kobe think he Mike!”, like they never thought the same…….

  • MSL

    Kobe is not even better than Dwayne Wade.

    Look what Wade had done when he had a good team (not only win a Championship but dominate and put up crazy numbers).

    And look what Wade has done when he hasn’t had good/great teams (put up crazy numbers nonetheless, when everyone in the house knows he’s gonna get the ball and has to score).

    Kobe has always had the advantage of (especially for his first three titles) of not having to carry or bear the load.

    He could afford shot shoot 35% in the Thunder and Boston series; while shooting 45% (which is not terrible, but not great either) in the Utah & Phoenix series.

    Wade shot 56%, averaged 33 points and 7 assist (while every single Celtic defender was geared to him),and Wade still lost in the first round of the playoffs.

    Kobe is a great, but also very fortunate player. But for my money, I’ll always take Dwayne Wade.

    Oh. We were talking bout a guy named Jordan, huh? Lol.

  • control

    Johnaton

    No hater talk at all. You are an example of one of those people in which Kobe can’t be do no wrong, and don’t believe that Kobe is anything other than #1 in the world in every single category.

    I wasn’t the only one saying TMac was better than Kobe, it was a statement that was quite common when TMac was at his best. It’s easily debatable. TMac would have rings if he were next to a guy like Shaq or Tim Duncan when he was healthy, what is really so hard to believe about that? TMac had times when he was clutch, shit, 13 pts in 35 seconds is one of the most impressive scoring bursts ever. Some guys have CAREER HIGHS of 13pts, and TMac did that in 13 seconds against the Spurs. Kobe has also had times where he’s been completely NOT clutch, so don’t be talking like he’s Jesus, he ain’t.

  • http://tolulope.edun@gmail.com Y.G.

    @ fallinup
     
    I was gonna let you get off with a pass, but I’ve had a change of mind.
     
    You contend that free agency has made today’s NBA less competitive than the 90’s. Your dead wrong son. First of all, today’s free agencey, better gms(trading), and high salary cap has enabled teams to create super squads: Spurs big three, Celts big three, Mavs: Kidd, Dirk, Marion, Bulter, & terry; Nash, J.J., STATS, & Marion; Cassell, K.G., & Sprewell; Peja, Webber, Bibby, & Hedo.
     
    Second, let me make an argeument as to how today’s NBA kills MJ’s era in terms of competiveness. In today’s NBA, mainly the Western Conference, team must win 50 plus games to get the 8th seed. In addition, today’s players are way more atlethic than during MJ’s era, in particular at the sg/sf postion: Melo, LeBron, Wade, Artest, Granger, Durant, TMAC, VC, Joe Johnson, & Keyon Martin (Kobe kills them so much G.C. has K-Mart on him at times) just to mention a few. Name some prominent defenders Jordan has torched. I have on post #129. Face it, today’s NBA is made up of better & more athletic players, acute scouting & information, better & sophisticated coaching. Again, MJ’s era compared to today’s must be considered weaker due to these factors… Kid

  • bill bixby

    MJ aint never thrown no game. He has always come to kill.

  • ctkennedy

    patrick ewing
    reggie miller
    charles barkley
    clyde drexler(when some stupid people thought he was better than mike)
    john stockton
    karl malone
    gary payton(when he was the glove not ring chasin lol)
    shawn kemp
    kevin johnson
    he stop all these players from winnin rings
    he has beat his peers in series along the way also larry bird,magic johnson,and isiah thomas(which any true basketball fan know he was suppose to be on the original dream team)
    at the age of 40 he put up the same numbers that got Joe Johnson the most money this past summer 124 million for those that forgot…lmao

  • Jerry K.

    I will say what alot will call heresy: F MJ. If his team played in this current era, maybe they win 3. Everyone makes out MJ as this player that nobody else comes close to. Just shut up already. Ya he was a great player, top 5 player of all time, but calm down, he isnt on his own level.
    As for those saying Kobe won 3 rings with shaq, well no shit,you cant win without good teammates. And its not kobe’s fault he was so young when he won those rings that he couldnt be the “man”.
    One more thing to justify kobe’s greatness: Besides those 3 first rings, SHAQ never won a ring being the “MAN” on the team (It mightve been Shaqs team back in 06 but Wade was the man,replace him with an average all-star,someone like Michael Redd, and heat dont win)……Kobe has already won 2 rings (soon to be 3) as the MAN on his team.
    So get over yourself MJ fans.

  • JEAR18

    @Jerry K – well its not MJ fault that he had to be the MAN the whole time he played LOL .. so what u sayin is KOME won 3 rings while being robin and he won 2 rings while being batman … i can agree with that .. but MJ has won it 6 times as batman .. so this whole argument will have to wait until Kobe wins at least 4 as the man … just check the numbers and what he has done through his whole career and u will see why MOST people think MJ is on a whole other level.

  • http://tolulope.edun@gmail.com Y.G.

    @ Poppi Gee- lol! But I don’t think that you would bet against Kobe this season with a deep roster behind him. Also, Kobe was supposed to have broken down 3 years ago.

  • http://tolulope.edun@gmail.com Y.G.

    @dapro

    Let me correct ya; the illegal defense rule was in place MJ’s whole
    career. Do you understand how that rule affected the game? Go watch
    some 90’s basketball…you will be shocked by the amount of space MJ
    had to operate because of that rule. Then go watch any Laker game from last season. You should be able to notice a huge difference. During MJ’s era, it was easier to get into the paint.

  • mikehawk

    there will only be one Michael Jordan and one Kobe Bryant

  • drew

    @YG

    i didnt even realize today’s rules actually made it more difficult to drive into the paint. i guess we can consider that a pro-kobe argument?

    either way from a talent standpoint most knowledgable unbiased posters will actually agree that kobe’s offensive arsenal is superior to that of MJ’s. yes, kobe has a better handle and more range, but MJ’s post game was more effective which is why kobe’s shooting percentages to a degree are not as good (a combination of worse shot selection by kobe and also him being more on the perimeter).

  • Crew Dizzy

    @ MSL

    You’re crazy son!!!!! Wade isn’t on Kobes level. When Kobe was playing with SMUSH AND KWAME HE WAS AVERGING 35ppg AND GETTING THE LAKERS TO THE PLAYOFFS IN A STACKED WEST. Wade won that ring because his team was built to win at that time shaq still commanded a double, and with Zo and haslem they were able to control the paint. They had Posey who would guard the opposing teams best player so Wade would use all his engery on offense. Veterans who could make shots, Antoine Walker, Gary Payton, White Chocolate, and one of the best coaches of all time. Not to mention they played in the east when the only other relevent team was the pistons, the next year with same team they were an embarasament, if Wade was the leader he’s responible for one of THE BIGGEST CHAMPIONSHIP HANGOVERS EVER!!!!! something Kobe would never let happen. Don’t mention Wade amongst Kobe ever again!!!!!

  • LakeShow84

    Kobe posters startin to win?????

    lmao just kiddin Kobe haters hahahaha

  • http://www.mercusuarproduction.multiply.com The Sleeper

    Jordan & Kobe both are selfish player

  • http://tolulope.edun@gmail.com Y.G.

    @drew- if you ever played &/or understood basketball you wouldn’t post such a question.

  • drew

    @YG

    before you go ahead trying to sound all superior about your ball knowledge, read my above posts please and thank you.
    what i didnt realize was how today’s rules actually make for a more difficult time to drive into the paint, whereas most people now claim today’s lack of handchecking benefits kobe.

  • WinDelRoj

    @167 LMAO damn.. Joe Johnson… too much money (something we can all agree on)

  • JAY

    @MSL: I made that statement about Olajuwon. and i DO know my history. Are you nuts? How many rings did Olajuwon win with Jordan IN THE LEAGUE? Zero. and it was Sampson he put them in the final, not Olajuwon. Don’t YOU remember?

    You say some shit about me not know my history but then turn around and say some stupid shit about Wade being better than Kobe… yeah dude. You are obviously the most knowledgeable person in here. Come on dude, you know that’s a dumb-ass statement.

  • Coney Islander

    I said it the day LeBron announced he was heading to Miami, if Kobe Bryant is able to meet Miami in the finals (assuming they make it out of the east) and win ring #6 while beating #6 he will be in that Bird, Magic, MJ conversation for sure. No one else in the history of the league that has faced a team with a core like Miami’s where any one of those 3 can beat you on any given night. If Kobe does manage that herculean task, he will be on basketball’s Mt.Rushmore without a doubt.

  • shell

    I love Kobe, Mike is alright, but for me the greatest of all time has 11 rings mike nor kobe couldn’t do that in their dreams case closed

  • http://www.kb24.com/members/riva24zoox Riva 24 zoox

    Once I’m jordan maniac n stop like the nba because he retire’ then i hear bout the baby jordan name kobe bryant – n u know wat? i hate to hear many people always saying all that shit. it makes me hate kobe very much’ i don’t believe if there someone else can be like mike! IMPOSSIBLE are the word

    by the time travel!! slowly i try to give my time 4 watching the nba again… Vince, Tmac, AI, they all great, but when mamba comes up, LIGHTNING STRIKE ME!!!! dats wat I feel.miracle dats wat kobe 4 me. unbelievable, an epic superb player i ever seen after MJ, Magic, KA, JW, WC, DrJ, BR.

    Lets stop the Comparison between KB & MJ through titles’ cause nobody can beat the 11 ( ELEVEN ) title’s of Bill russel have.

    SKILLS dats all I’m saying

    Talking aBout it! no doubt his fundamental are very close with mike, BUT! time has continues to growing and kobe with a very cleverly managed to use it to bypass the existing limits on the mike and him self. so REAL TALK it makes mamba is the future of basketball, many move dats kobe do and mike can’t do!! …I will not say much more about the skill that kobe had. all you gotta do is just sit back and watch it, IMPOSSIBLE will become NOTHING

  • jzsmoove

    fuck rey jefferson. if this guy’s pink slip aint in the mail yet then the HR people should get fired too. Aint nobody touches MJ. Kobe? please kobe shouldnt even be allowed to touch MJ’s butler’s jocks.

  • http://www.wix.com/reyrey33/REYZ-WORLD rey jefferson

    @jzsmoove hahahahahahahaha

  • MJ

    MJ > kobe.

  • http://deleted dagwaller

    Wow, 183 comments.

    I understand that sports, above maybe all else, generate conversation. And journalists need topics like this.

    That having been said, completely disagree. Maybe this has been said already, but as much as I love ya’ll, I’m not reading 183 comments.

    1. Jordan’s teams were expected to win BECAUSE he was on the team.
    2. The Lakers will not beat the Heat this year, so this is a moot point.
    3. Jordan beat Stockton and Malone multiple times. Top 5 PG and PF of all time. The Heat haven’t played any games yet as currently constructed – how do they compare to Stockton/Malone?!
    4. Most importantly, Jordan won 6 as the man. Kobe has won 2. If he wins FOUR MORE as the man, then he will surpass Michael Jordan.

  • Kevin

    Have you all seen the D’s MJ played against in his day?? They remind me of pick up games. They arn’t as sophisticated and developed as they are now. Lets not mention the discrepancy in athleticism between then and now. I got mad love for MJ (miss those days of NBA on NBC) there’s no doubt hes the GOAT.. BUT kobe has to be in the discussion and a serious threat to MJ’s throne if he’s able to put in a few more good years. Don’t be so afraid to let another player creep up on MJ’s pedastool, ya’ll.

  • dmanlian

    The heat are good on paper, but they haven’t proved ANYTHING yet. Let’s not pretend like they’re some almighty insurmountable team. If the Lakers wind up facing the Heat in the finals, the lakers are still the favorites in my book.

  • Ed

    Yeah Jordan was so great that he left his team, his teams fans, and the entire NBA hanging to go play baseball (a sport which he sucked at anyways). Talk about ego. Not even mentioning his multiple retirements which once again let everyone down. I could never see Kobe doing any of that.
    Jordan, G.O.A.T. my ass. B E A T maybe, biggest ego of All time.

  • ball in my hand

    If ever Kobe wins another title
    It is still a big NO>> the G.O.A.T thing.

  • I KNOW EVERYFING BOUT NBA

    yep i mean how can u say kobe is close 2 jordon if he wins 6 rings , lets look at it dis way kobe has led lakers to 2 rings , and woz secondary option wid his first 3 to shaq , okay he woz the scottie pippen of dat laker team , and chek dis he lost in 2 finals ? MICHAEL JORDON NEVER LOST IN NBA FINALS 6 FINALS 6 RINGS , dat shows wen jordon woz close 2 a ring he never let it slip , MICHAEL JORDON WOZ THE FIRST OPTION OF THE BULLS , ALWAYS , DURING THE 90S DEY WERE BETTA PLAYERS BUT EVERYONE KNOWS JORDON WOZ THE BEST , NOWADAYS U GOT PEOPLE ARGUIN SAYING LEBRON IS THE BEST , WADE IS THE BEST , IVERSON IS THE BEST, KOBE IS THE BEST JEEZ , BACK IN JORDONS TIME EVERYONE KNEW WHO THE BEST WOZ THERE IGNORANCE DIDNT BLIND EM , one fing ill say kobe is the best player to put on a laker jersey if he gets the sixth ring , definite , ryte now its a debate , between kobe , magic, west and even shaq but we will exclude shaq cuz once u join boston yur an enemie for life, i do believe even if kobe wins 6 rings u cant match him 2 jordons level because jordons individual achievements will always build a huge shadow on kobes ring success , becuase come on kobe only has 2 scoring titles iverson has 4 , jordon has 10 , 5 mvps 2 kobes 1 i mean its 2 much but if kobe gets 7 rings den it is a different story cuz he will do sumfing jordon has never done lead a team 2 a four-peat , dats the only way u can debate or even say kobe is the goat he has 2 get that 7th it will giv kobes individual awards campared 2 jordon a pass , he would have 4 finals mvp , and might even win anuva mvp award now dat wade , lebron and bosh cancel each other out but i do fink kevin durant will take advantage of dis instead or even melo , but its gonna b tough for kobe 2 win 2 more rings in a row , miami will b tough but ryte now i fink boston could make it to the final be4 dem dey r experienced and know how to win playoff games , but the west looks bit weaker dis yr i dont c no problems for the lakers dey can beat any team in the west now thunder could shock the world but i doubt it , denver nuggets died last yr melo is not signing the contract extensions is heart is set on playing somwhere else , brandon roy is good but he has a injury prone fool as a centre , phoneix suns will not do the same fing , grant hill , steve nash yr older , amare gone no big trade to make em betta , and dere coach is the happiest guy wen he loses lol ,utah jazz have done nuthing either , clippers can make sum playoff noise but dats all dey r 8th seed max , so the teams in the west should b eazy for the lakers , but its the teams in the east , dis is van gundys last yr in orlando he either wins title or gets sacked , he really aint done nuthing dey really need 2 build around dwight howard the way dey around shaq , dey brought him vince carter 3 yrs 2 late , he aint the same player he once woz ,dwight howard right now is getting wasted a big man can easily dominate the game wid the right players around em and dey cant jus have dat live by the three routine howard gotta average atleast 30 points a game wid 15 rebounds and 6 assists now but dat is talent wasted ryte now , but boston r more scary den heat right now , we dont know wat the heat r gonna b like yet people r giving em the crown already are being stupid or clever , dey wanna put so much pressure on dis team dat dey dont reach expectations , dere good but not dat good and if one of em gets injured dat big three might have issues ,but in the end of the day i got lakers winning 2010-2011 title i really fink people r giving dis miami team 2 much hype ryte now u can put superstars together does not mean success
    gary payton , kobe bryant , shaq , karl malone example 2004
    iverson , carmelo anthony 2006
    charles barkley , hakeem
    shaq and lebron james
    although lebron -wade- bosh is probably the most talented three assembled in2 one team , we gotta c wat dere bench produces , whos individual games gonna take more of a sacrifice , lebron has 2 mvps , i dont fink he will get a third in a row unless he does sumfing noone has seen since the big O , AND AVERAGE A TRIPLE DOUBLE for the season which he can now because of the talent he has around em his assists always used 2 be the problem in cleveland he can average ten assists wid dis team , 10 rebounds and 20 points a game eazy so a third mvp mayb if he does it ,all i know is 2010-2011 will be a season 2 rememba

  • rryan

    I don’t believe the argument that Jordan’s teams always faced teams in the finals that they were supposed to beat. When they faced the Suns in ’93, Phoenix had the better record. If I remember correctly, it was kind of an upset when the Bulls beat the Knicks out of the Eastern Conference Finals. When the Bulls played the Jazz in ’98, the Jazz had the better season record. They had just swept the Lakers in the WCF and had almost a two week break before facing the Bulls. The Bulls weren’t always necessarily favored; Jordan’s greatness just overshadowed seeding, though.
    Another point–You have to look at the individual match-ups of the teams in the finals. In my opinion, LA’s super imposing frontcourt of the last 3 years have made them the favorite by far, even the year that they first played the Celtics (granted they were still working out chemistry issues at that point). One thing to remember is that Jordan never had the frontcourt that Kobe has had. Who would you rather have–Rodman, Longley, and Wennington, or Odom, Gasol, Bynum? Besides choosing Rodman over Odom, that shouldn’t even be a question.
    By the way, if you want to look at lopsided finals, look at the Lakers first 3-peat a decade ago. What was their record in those 3 combined finals.
    Truth be told, without Gasol (a much more Jordan’s Bulls-like lineup) the Lakers probably would not have gone to the last 3 finals. Kobe’s great, but I’m not going to move him ahead of Jordan until he wins without a dominant big man.

  • ERIC

    This may have been said, but, to be honest, I’m not reading all 187 posts before me… hahaha.

    All this Kobe talk of being “robin” during the first 3-peat is ridiculous.

    Everyone should remember all the media coverage how its “unfair to have the NBA’s two best players on the same team”.. Kobe wasnt some side-kick. He was an ALL-NBA 1st Teamer, ALL-Defensive 1st Teamer, and he was the one who killed off the much better WCF opponents (Sactown, San Antonio, Portland) vs Shaq eating alive the overmatched frotnline of Eastern Foes they faced in the Finals.

    Was Magic ever given shit for Kareen Winning FINALS MVP in the ’85 finals or Duncan as Parker won the FINALS MVP in ’07?

    Kobe’s first 3 titles should be seen with equal value as the last 2. If anything, he has evolved as a player and its impressive that he has overtaken every “next jordan” that has crossed his path.

    With regards to his airness, himself, he’s revered as a God, and he is certainly the GOAT, but Kobe certainly is in the discussion and an argument can be made about his skill set (better left hand, better jumper) being, at least, on-par with Michael.

    btw – Kobe > LeBron

  • Dillenga

    MJ>>>>>Kobe. No explanation required.

  • dwayne

    Look I have had the opportunity to be experience the entire Jordan era and the now present Kobe era. Check post 19,25, and 52. All make a valid point. You can never ever compare these two players from their eras. There was no one and there will never be anyonelike the G.O.A.T.
    Michael Jordan is only considered the greatest basket ball player of all time he’s considered the greatest athlete. No one dominated like MJ. So to all you Kobe dick riders the stats, and rings(solo not w/Shaq) speak for themselves. And botto mention retiring then coming back to win. If not retirement there may have been 1o rings. So stop the bullshit comparisons. There will never, eva, eva, eva, eva(ala Friday) be another like Mike.

  • Dave

    Have you ever considered the reason no one ever thought a team would beat the Bulls is because Jordan is soo much better than Kobe? Your reverse logic is laughable.

    Look at the stats. Kobe could get 10 titles and still wouldn’t be a tenth of the player Jordan was. If it goes only by titles, then I guess Bill Russell is the GOAT?

    Wake up.

  • Ian

    eric
    im not sayin kobe is better because hes not but your post about kobe winning without a dominant big isnt fair. jordan never played a dominant big to win those 6 titles so he didnt need one on his team. the best center he had to beat was ewing and we all know how anticlutch and stupid the man was. i posted earlier that jordans first threepeat bulls couldnt beat the spurs and rockets (dominant centers that could do everything not pussy ewing) and it showed with a combined 2-10 record vs those two teams. kobe had to play the twin towers from 99-03 a stack portland and sacto teams that had good bigs. not the same man i think you can imagine the field day those teams would have playing vs longley.

  • Ian

    dwayne
    maybe he goes 6-4 if he plays 10 finals who knows. you come here bashing the kobe nut huggers (i liked that hehe) but ended it with a “what if” comon. remember those 4 seasons he prob gets the best 4 teams better or at least a worse matchup than the ones he did beat in the finals.

    rockets olajuwon
    rockets olajuwon
    spurs duncan and robinson
    lakers shaq

  • KnicksFan

    Its a helllll NO for Kobe as G.O.A.T…

    Jordan went 6 times won 6 times

    Kobe went 7 times won 5 times .first 3 Kobe wasn’t even first option. Of course he still put up numbers in those playoffs but when shaq was commanding triple and double teams thats when kobe scored.

  • KnicksFan

    Pau Gasol deserves more credit for these last 2 championships. When the offense ran through him they won games.

  • dave

    everybody above me is wrong lol.

    this is the year that that kobe could shatter the glass ceiling people have put for mj bird wilt russell and magic

    and cracks the top 5 all time

  • http://www.kb24.com/members/riva24zoox Riva 24 zoox

    people dats agree with MJ are best skill than KB = stupid who never learn about history lesson at all… ” History is always change, this is the new era of basketball and Kobe are the top of it. Mj is just the past’ so same when kobe retired’ some one will comes up with The new ONE.. face the fact, 81 = greatest individual player

  • Lequang242

    When Kobe get his 7th then I’ll consider talking about comparison. IMO if Jordan didn’t take those 2yrs off he might have Won 8 straight! Think about that. BTW- how many did Bill Russel won?(if championship is the yardstick) Go Lakers!!

  • bola

    @riza 24: what a way to end a 200++ comments article.. by being fuckin’ stupid, of course

    news flash: a guy named wilt chamberlain scored 100 points aginst the knicks (way tougher than the raptor bitches, by the way)and averaged 50 points for ONE WHOLE SEASON.

    you are the one who should know your history and while you are on it, try knowing some english, too!

  • MSL

    #

    August 19th, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    bullish513 says:

    What are you smoking??? Clearly MJ is GOAT based on numbers,resume. So were does this argument derive?

    Top 10
    MJ
    Magic
    Wilt
    Kareem
    Russell
    Oscar
    Shaq
    West
    Hakeem
    Isaiah/Bird

    Kobe’s not even top 10 yet…..

    I would agree with this list Bullsh513

  • MSL

    “as for Miami, Lebron,Wade and Bosh might have a chance to win this year but kobe will still be the best player in TODAY’s game beacause he didnt need the help of other 2 superstars…yes he may have artest and gasol but they are not a bosh and lebron….”

    Maybe you’d have a better point if Kobe didn’t shoot so poorly in the finals (and against OKC)?

    Just saying!

  • MSL

    #

    August 19th, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    Tee says:

    Seriously this is a stupid article! Tell Kobe to avg .500 pct for a season from the field for once in his career! Tell Kobe to garner 160 blks,the most all time for a guard! Tell Kobe to lead the league in Steals ! Tell Kobe to become Defensive Player of the league one time! Tell Kobe to avg 37.1 pts a game! Tell Kobe to win 7 scoring championships in a row! Tell Kobe to avg the most points per game in NBA history! And finally, tell Kobe to win 72 games in a season and maybe, just maybe he will be the G.O.A.T.!!!!!

    You brought up some good points bro; but Jordan never averaged the most points in NBA history (not quite). Wilt Chamberlain Holds those records, for most points in a game and in a seasons (50p and 42ppg avg & 100 points).

  • MSL

    August 19th, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    Crew Dizzy says:

    @ MSL

    You’re crazy son!!!!! Wade isn’t on Kobes level. When Kobe was playing with SMUSH AND KWAME HE WAS AVERGING 35ppg AND GETTING THE LAKERS TO THE PLAYOFFS IN A STACKED WEST. Wade won that ring because his team was built to win at that time shaq still commanded a double, and with Zo and haslem they were able to control the paint. They had Posey who would guard the opposing teams best player so Wade would use all his engery on offense. Veterans who could make shots, Antoine Walker, Gary Payton, White Chocolate, and one of the best coaches of all time. Not to mention they played in the east when the only other relevent team was the pistons, the next year with same team they were an embarasament, if Wade was the leader he’s responible for one of THE BIGGEST CHAMPIONSHIP HANGOVERS EVER!!!!! something Kobe would never let happen. Don’t mention Wade amongst Kobe ever again

    How dare you mention Wade having a broken down shaq (who only averaged 20ppg that year) and Mourning, when Kobe had a truly dominant Shaq gifted to him before, when he played an admirable Robin. Those were Shaq teams.

    And what happened after Shaq left. He and the lakers sucked! So much so; that Kobe begged to be traded and threw the phoenix game (that or he just sucked) and bad mouth his teammates to boot. Kobe has never been a great fg % shooter (i.e. a chucker), and he only started winning again, when he begged for Pau Gasol or he was leaving; but still needed to be bailed out with his poor shooting.

    Yes! I would rather have DWade!

  • MSL

    #

    August 19th, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    JAY says:

    @MSL: I made that statement about Olajuwon. and i DO know my history. Are you nuts? How many rings did Olajuwon win with Jordan IN THE LEAGUE? Zero. and it was Sampson he put them in the final, not Olajuwon. Don’t YOU remember?

    You say some shit about me not know my history but then turn around and say some stupid shit about Wade being better than Kobe… yeah dude. You are obviously the most knowledgeable person in here. Come on dude, you know that’s a dumb-ass statement.

    Hey Jay. You claim you know you’re history and you honestly wanna say with a straight face that SAmpson put the rockets in the finals? Do you really?

    Sampson hit that last lucky shot, that bounced around the ring JacksAss; but it was Olajuwon that completely dominated that series stupid!! Don’t you remember? Hakeem was thrown out or fouled out of that game (I think from fighting with Rambis or foul trouble), so Sampson took that last shot. But he was by no means the leader of that team in anyway? You’re an idiot man.

    As far as Hakeem and Jordan. I guessed you missed my whole point (beside the fact that Jordan and Olajuwon never faced each other in the finals; duuuuh)! Those Rockets teams, if they didn’t have their three best guards fail off for drug use and Sampson’s knees didn’t blow, they could of won multiple championships; before/if Jordan ever won his first!

    Hakeem brought the Rockets to the finals against two all time great teams, dominating as a second year player (while Jordan was getting knocked out in the first round)! That’s a fact! Look it up!

    In regards to Wade and Kobe. I’m not the only person that feels that way. I’d rather have Wade! Kobe’s a chucker, that’s been lucky enough to be bailed out by great front lines and big men when he can’t produce.

    When he was on his own, he a complainer, whiner, chucker, didn’t trust his teammates, threw playoff games and demanded to be traded. Kobe is a great player, but also thoroughly overrated! And he’s been a not so great Finals performer! Yes I said it!

  • Jay10do

    Jordan: 10x Scoring champ, 10x Nba 1st team, 9x Def 1st Team, 3x Steal champ, 6 final Mvps, 6 rings, never lost a final, 5x Season MVP, DPOY Award, he’s all over the record books, the best team record 72-10, kobe had shaq, Jordan had pippen, but Jordan never came 2nd no man but God. Gold Medals, and great defense better than kobes any day, he’s the best that ever was and the best it ever will be . Jordan……….

  • Jay10do

    Oh yea Rookie of the year, 82 NCAA Champ, scoring champ and DPOY In 88 who jus do shit like that , stop comparing Kobe to Jordan, sure he’s the closes thing to MJ but he will never be better than him period. Kobe never won anything defensively and want ever. in the last 10 years kobe has been the best But he will never be better than MJ,Magic or Kareem.

  • Manu

    read bill simmons book. kobes not even fucking close. mj, magic, wilt, russell, bird, and kareem all rip him to shreds

  • Roc1980

    I get tired of folks saying that Kobe had Shaq… Did anyone watch those games?

    Because it was Kobe’s b-day the other day, NBATV was showing some of Kobe’s best games. I happened to catch game 3 of the 2002 NBA Finals against the Nets… Sure Shaq did his thing, but when the offense was stagnate or when Shaq continued to blow free throws (in the 4th quarter), Kobe carried the team. In fact, Kobe closed a majority of the games they played together. You couldn’t trust O’neal to deliver late in games b/c of his awful free throw shooting…

    NOONE has ever won a championship by themselves, including Jordan… MJ had Scottie, but no one ever takes anything away from MJ… Why is that? Pippin is a member of the 50 greatest, correct?

    Why is it that

  • http://None Sac

    Olajuwon won his first title by himself, and his second title was assisted by Clyde Drexler. Lol.

    The irony is; Olajuwon made it to the finals in his second year with a very young and talented Rockets team. And after manyy drug scandals, league suspensions and injuries 4 of his key team mates, he won his first NBA title 9 years later (after several rebuilding/tinkering campaigns).

    Now that’s a testament to Olajuwon’s greatness.

  • jazz

    the bulls are luckiest team to win their 6 chips. who did they face at the finals? 91 lakers when magic was what, 50 yrs old w/ hiv? 92 blazers, 93 suns, 96 sonics, 97-98 jazz. how many championships have the last 5 teams won – 0. rings barkley, malone, stockton, drexler, payton with their teams at the time won : 0. jordan always had easy paths to the championship. that’s why he’s not the goat. i’ll never see him beat a real championship team at the nba finals.

    it takes a champ to beat another champ. it’s like nadal beating federer. that’s why the lakers/celtics teams that play each other (both with rings)- whether magic/bird era, or the current era will have my respect better than jordan’s lucky bulls.

  • Jay10do

    the fact is this sure MJ had Pippen and Kobe had Shaq or Shaq had Kobe or whatever but one thing about Jordan he was always the #1 option he never came second to kno one. I don’t care how bad shaq was he would not have MVP finals 3 years in ah row playing wit Jordan on his team I don’t think so. We all kno MJ,SHAQ,PIPPEN, and Kobe are all Legends so what dose that have to wit anything Roc? What can u take away from Jordan nothing he’s the greatest, he even let Olajuwon get ah couple of rings damn…

  • Jay10do

    “Jazz” ur ah str8 stupid ass, Mj faced teams wit the best record in ah season u stupid ass, Utah,Suns etc, legends Malone one of the best PF of all-time if not the best, Stockton #1 in steals and assist of all-time who the hell Kobe faced bums….. New Jersey LMAO!!!! He lost against the Pistons come on man I mean woman JAZZ what ever u r, Jordan 6-0 in finals nothing lucky about that fool, Kobe 5-2 enough said

  • Jay10do

    Another thing JAZZ, all those guys u named are legends, what team did kobe face besides Boston. Have u ever played the game B-Ball and not 2k there’s nothing easy,lucky about the sport, u have to earn ur Wins, practice makes Perfect

  • Chris

    You can talk all you want about Kobe not having a hand in his first three rings, but the fact is NO ONE can give me a “ROBIN” that put up anything CLOSE to 28.5 PPG, 5.9 RPG, 5.0 APG, 1.7 SPGs in a season (second ring) or 25.2 PPG, 5.5 RPG, 5.5 APG, 1.2 SPG in a season (third ring), not to mention he took 20 FGA per game the second run and 23 FGA the third, 46% FG or better both times.  

    Or his playoff numbers 

    2000-2001 Playoffs 29.4 PPG, 7.3 RPG, 6.1 APG 

    2001-2002  Playoffs 26.6 PPG, 5.8 RPG, 4.6 APG (and this was through injury, funny enough)

    Similar to Lebrons 25/8/8 when he went to the Finals with Cleveland as “The Man”. 

    I challenge anyone to find any “Robin” in NBA history who put up numbers like this…..But he rode Shaq right?  

    I challenged you to find me ANY PLAYER, “Robin”, Batman, or otherwise who could put up numbers like this but not get credit for the ring ….. Completely ridiculous

    Sure looks to me like Kobe was much, much more than a second fiddle.  Until you can give me numbers proving otherwise, I guess there’s nothing else to debate.

  • Chris

    The discussion is false.

    First of all, we should enjoy this career for what it is- magnificent. There hasn’t been many players dominate multiple decades like the way Mike dominated later part of the 80s and much of the 90s. Kobe has the chance to dominate both 00s, as well as the early part of this current decade. They were both considered the standards for there respective generations.

    But, what i believe the population doesn’t understand is the historical contexts involved in such a debate that MUST be considered. These great athletes lived in drastically different National Basketball landscapes. Rules and regulations, opponents talent base, League talent base and international interest and talent base. Also, popularity and comparisons with other national sports etc. The national/ international platforms are different. The world wasn’t as ‘Babylonian’ as it is now; not as universal. No twitter, FB, blogging, highspeed internet etc. So, basketball wasn’t on the grand scale its on today. The NBA is as much a international sport as it is a national one. Thus, the talent base is outrageous.

    Writers, experts, and historians criticize the ‘Gllory Days’ of the NBA as being perennially talentless and a league of Haves and Have-nots. Its different now. The NBA hierarchy is much more widespread. In the stronger Western conference there are 10 teams who have the ability to have a 50-win season. In the weaker, top heavy Eastern conference there are 5 teams with 55-win potential and 3 with 60-win potential. How different can the two opposing basketball generations be?

    That is Kobe’s plight every season. Those are the great teams, and international talents and young phenoms, and social/ political/ economical distractions and challenges he faces constantly. Its much easier for a team to be good nowadays making it much harder for a player to ascend to greatness. But, Kobe is great more times then he’s not in an Association that’s greater then it was 15 years ago.

    Psh. I’d like to see Mike play Duncan & Co., Lebron’s crew, Boston’s Big 3, Orlando, a healthy Portland, KD’s team, Nash’s Suns, Melo, DWade, the Mavs, etc day in and day out.

    Compare the times don’t compare the stats. Compare the athletes. When we compare the plights of our past presidents do we not compare the times they lived for the importance of their reign? Washington during our independence, Lincoln during an age of confusion and slavery, Roosevelt during a time of economic crisis, Eisenhower during the WWII etc. We remember the historical periods. Thats what i’m focusing on in this discussion between Kobe and Mike. That’s what im comparing. And i believe over the course of the next decade they will become equal in the debate as to who’s the Greatest Of All Time.