Smack / Aug 5, 2010 / 12:07 am

Celtics gets older, wiser, older by adding Shaq to the Big Five

Maybe the Celtics and Heat should switch rosters. When you think about it, wouldn’t Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, Jermaine O’Neal and now Shaq be a better fit amongst the old-folks set in Miami? They can bring Mike Finley and ‘Sheed with them and put together the most intimidating shuffleboard squad of all-time … Yes, Shaq is now part of Team Green, signing up for a reported $2.3 million over two years (or $1.4M for one year depending on where you get your information). The first question that comes to mind: Will he start? Jermaine had been penciled into that spot for the time being, and Kendrick Perkins will eventually be healthy, so where does Shaq fit in? Boston reportedly made sure Diesel was cool with coming off the bench before they signed him, but Shaq has never been a backup outside of All-Star Games … Meanwhile, ‘Sheed is being treated like the anti-Brett Favre. Whereas Favre has the Vikings hanging on his every whim and holding his QB spot for whenever he wants it, the Celtics had no parts of waiting for ‘Sheed to make up his mind — they went out and signed/drafted his replacements ASAP. Although it would have been funny to see Ed Werder hovering around Rasheed’s Range Rover peppering him with questions before catching a forearm to the jaw … Is it too late for last-minute Team USA invites? With Brook Lopez pulling out of the World Championship due to a case of mono, Coach K will have to choose his fours and fives from a pool consisting of JaVale McGee, Tyson Chandler, Kevin Love, Jeff Green and Lamar Odom. Are we sure Paul Millsap definitely can’t play? What’s up with Al Jefferson? Somebody convince Chris Bosh that he won’t be putting that much strain on his body this season anyway, and get him to suit up. Or remind Carlos Boozer that this could be his chance to log major minutes on a gold-medal squad … Perhaps it was on purpose, but Kenny Smith started something the other night when he said Kevin Durant is better than D-Wade. One guy who should be in that right-below-Kobe-and-LeBron tier who always seems to get overlooked is Carmelo. Couldn’t you make a case for ‘Melo being the 3rd-best player in the League? … For those of you in the New York area, we’ve got a couple of potential hook-ups for you: First is a 25% discount off tickets for the Team USA vs. France exhibition at MSG during the World Basketball Festival on August 15. Second, we’re looking for Fall interns. If you or anybody you know wants school credit or an opportunity to write and learn the magazine business, let us know … We’re out like young legs …

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  • “Tha Boddy” Wall for one and Wall for all!

    Carmelo is beastly…Look at the road he has to go through in the West every year and still makes the playoffs…LeBron and DWade missed the playoffs in the ez east…give Melo credit he gets work done

  • busterjonez

    “Celtics gets older, wiser, older by adding Shaq to the Big Five”

    You forgot fatter.

  • YW

    Celts should go and sign AI and Tmac, super old superfriends

  • Stunnaboy09

    Imagine Sheed pulling a Favre and coming back and Boston running Rondo and the 4 centers lineup. Just the sheer amount of fast break points they’d give up would be funny enough by itself.

    Durant aint better than Wade until he wins a playoff series. Durant is kind of getting overrated now. Kid is special yes, but top 3? That’s pretty big hell between KD and Dirk its kind of debatable who is better.

    Fuck Chris Bosh, he’d probably bring his camera crew, show no hustle on D, bitch about shots and demand to be the star of the team. He might as well save his RuPaulness for Miami

  • BRUCE

    Two more years, we have to endure the services of that 7 feet tall, 300 plus pounds MONKEY

    Dime should hire ALF, his grammar and spelling is much better than some of Dime current writers, especially one Austin Burton!

  • BRUCE

    I have been saying this for the longest time, Bosh has the skills but does not have to size or will to impose his skills. Screw that MARICON!

  • Craig

    it seems like yesterday ppl were talking about the O’Neals being on the Eastern All Star team as starters

  • http://getyourishbusted.net Chicagorilla

    Kinda disappointed in Shaq. Just retire dog. It’s over.

    Celtics are done, stick a fork in’em. Unless KG had leg replacement surgery.

  • Reno

    “hell between KD and Dirk its kind of debatable who is better.” I agree with stunna.

    Ron Artest alone proved why KD isn’t better than Wade during the playoffs. You could easily make a strong case for Wade being the #2 guy in the league right now too. He has a more complete offensive game than Lebron does (LBJ still has no post or mid range game), is a better closer and better free throw shooter as well…. If I had to pick between Wade & KD to build my team around, it’s Wade everytime for me cause he brings more to the table than durant does. Let’s not forget. the fits he gave a younger and faster Artest in the 04 playoffs people.

  • http://getyourishbusted.net Chicagorilla

    Not suprised that Kobe is at the top of everyones list. I can see that and its not an easy one to argue for someone else.

    But in my case i put Wade as Number one (even though I ain’t really feeling his punk a$$ right now for not coming to Chicago) because he brings everything to the game and has led teams to the playoffs that were less talented than everyone else.

    The one thing i don’t get about the Kobe as #1 argument is this BULL$H!T about him being fundamental. WTF? have any of you actually watched him play? He does every thing in his power to try and NOT be fundamental. good fundamentals is Tim Duncan, Luke Walton, Kirk Hinrich, Deron Williams, Pippen and Kevin McHale.
    Kobe, Manu Ginobli, Jordan, AI, Lebron, Wade, these guys define the definition of NOT BEING FUNDAMENTAL. Everything they do goes against basketball law. the fadeaway is a really low percentage shot, but they manage to hit them. The floaters in the lane is not fundamental. The jump in the air, twist and turn, hang, then throw a no-look cross court pass for an open three (while entertaining and effective at time) is in no way fundamental.

    Thats the kinda ish that blows my mind. I’m watching the old playoff game LA vs OKC and Kobe is taking (and making some) the most difficult shots he can get himself into. Thats terrible. Sure he hits some, but there is a reason he doens’t shoot 50% from the field. He may end up being the 2nd best SG of all time (i think wade will get hurt) but thats as far as that goes.

  • http://getyourishbusted.net Chicagorilla

    watching BJennings 55pt game. and realized the Bulls signed CJ Watson. this just in….BJennings sent a thank you letter to the Bulls brass for bringing CJ Watson to the Central division. now he gets to see him 4 times a year.

  • dlee

    @Chicagorilla

    Haven’t you not seen Kobe’s footwork? Probably the best in the NBA. Kobe could be content with shooting “fundamental” jumpshots off fundamental screens, but in the end, Kobe is #1 because he has the best combination of fundamentals and athleticism.

  • darkdefender

    @10

    Kobe has the best footwork, but i agree with gorilla. He doesn’t always use it, instead he takes increases the difficulty on a lot of shots, usually unnecessarily.

    He has this one move where he’s facing up from 20 feet, fakes the drive by the defender, and instead does a reverse spin with one dribble on the spot before rising up for a long 2pt shot. Its beautiful, but its low percentage. Its damn hard to square up after the spin, which throws his balance off a little.

  • Stunnaboy09

    @Chicagorilla

    I have always said Kobe is the master of getting away with taking bad shots. Watch ANY Lakers game and imagine if Artest was launching those deep 3’s and fadeaways over 2 defenders. We’d find him in a scrapyard within 2 weeks.

    But he does have AMAZING footwork, just watch him pull off that pumpfake spin move. Breathtaking.

  • http://getyourishbusted.net Chicagorilla

    The footwork is more a testiment to Kobe’s athletic ability than his fundamentals. Cause no matter how much work a guy like Michael Olawakandi puts in, he’ll never have the hand eye coordination to put together Hakeem type moves. Jamal Crawford has amazing footwork. Chris Paul has probably the best foot work with all the different directions he shifts in before making a shot attempt or a pass while still being on balance. Same with Nash. Rondo and Rose too. So I’m not taking anything from Kobe on the footwork thing, but it’s not a fundamental thing because its not something everyone can do.

    I’m watching the Celtics vs Cavs series and while I dont really get on people for saying Kobe is the best player in the NBA, I’m really tripping on anyone who think Lebron is better than CP3 or Wade. Bron gets by on his athleticism alone. He can pass well, but doesn’t have any idea of when he should make the pass or take the shot. As physically gifted as he is, his IQ is equally low. So anyone claiming this dude is the best is disrespecting the game of basketball. With that said, his athletic ability alone puts him top 7 and prolly top 5. Thats just the way it is. He’s a freak of nature.

  • 808

    Eff fundamentals. I thought I was a bigger Kobe-hater than all yall but I guess you prove me wrong. Your hate clouds your reasoning and logic skills…

    Too many damn championships. What Kobe got? FOUR or FIVE or something??? Who gives a crap about fundamentals, taking (and making) difficult shots, coaches, system…all of those poor-ass excuses. This mf’r gets buckets. This mf’r wins rings. End of story. Show me all these #2s come even close to winning that amount of championships and put up that much #s doing it, and then we’ll talk. Until then, Kobe is one.

    And this is coming from me…I’ve been hating on Kobe since before some of yall could even spell K-O-B-E. But you gotta agree that everyone else is just shooting for him and not the other way around.

  • 808

    And I’m with Reno and Stunna about this Durant-better-than-D.Wade idea. This year’s series with L.A. was breakout shit, but come on….D.Wade has been doing this for years. Dime should be ashamed of yourselves for letting that phrase be in BOLD font.

    Did Kenny say that? In the blog, Dime said: “Perhaps it was on purpose, but Kenny Smith started something the other night when he said …” What does “started something” mean??? He started, but didn’t FINISH that argument? Maybe Kenny realized that he sounded like he was smoking crack.

  • http://www.gw2gold.org guild wars 2 gold

    shaq go to the celtics, oh, though celtics is older, but i think, if they go to the play off, they will beat heat

  • sh!tfaced

    Wouldn’t we all love to watch a Rondo vs Shaq freethrow shooting contest during practice…

  • http://getyourishbusted.net Chicagorilla

    808, you are talking/typing out your a$$. Championships has nothing to do with who’s better, that just means Kobes TEAM was better than everybody elses. As a matter of fact, the nicca wasn’t even close to being finals MVP during the first 3. Hell even Joe Dumars and James Worthy managed to get finals MVP from Isiah and Magic. Yet Kobe and his so called hard work couldn’t get it from Shaq? Or maybe he just isn’t as nice as ppl want to think.

    KG, Duncan, Shaq, T-Mac, and Vince all at their best was better than Kobe. Kobe is a legendary scorer, but thats it. Every compliment about Kobe’s game is some recycled Bullh!t from ESPN. Ahhh Footwork, Ahhh Hard work, ahhh championships, Ahhhh clutch. And it’s really tiring. I can’t even sit and appreciate a Kobe game anymore because guys like Mark Jackson ruin the experience by slurping and slobbing him up with these false reasons of why he’s so great.

    To be honest, even if he is the best in the game, what does that mean? the L is so watered down as far as superstars go. Durant has the ability to bring back true basketball players. If he keeps improving he’ll be in that top 10/top 5 argument and I won’t have to hear this non-sense about championships, that are won by having a great TEAM (unless you are Wade in 06 in which he carried a bunch of old men to a chip), being the defining ciriculum in labeling the greatest players. Just a few years ago Barkley was the greatest PF ever…then Karl Malone (2nd all time in scoring AHEAD of Jordan) was said to be the greatest PF ever. Then because David Stern needed to hype the NBA, all of a sudden Tim Duncan’s 20-10 is the greatest ever…acting like Malone and Barkley didn’t ish on those numbers. Also acting like Duncan ain’t a f^king center at 7ft 260lbs playing back to the basket.

  • http://getyourishbusted.net Chicagorilla

    LMFAO@ Rondo vs Shaq ft shooting. Better yet, 3pt shooting. With Nate, Shaq, Glen Davis, KG, PP all on the same team this has to be like the most combustable team ever assembled. Doc is going to lose his mind this year

  • barons beard

    When Durrant does that, you might have a point. But he hasn’t, so you don’t

    Wade is a easily better than Durrant

  • Rafa23

    I can understand the argument that wade is better than durant because he does more on the court.
    but why are people always bringing this “he has to win a playoff series first” or ” the other guy has been doing it longer” argument. that’s complete BS. we’re not talking about career, its about right now!!
    following that logic, the thunder lose against the lakers next year in 7 games, he averages 37,10,8, but wade is still better because he won a chip? sounds retarded

  • Stunnaboy09

    @Rafa23

    Lets see, both Wade and Durant faced a Finals squad in the first round of the playoffs

    Wade- 33.2 PPG 6.8 APG 5.5 RPG 1.6 SPG 1.6 BPG 56% FG 41% 3p
    Durant- 25PPG 2.3 APG 7.7 RPG 0.5 SPg 1.3 BPG 35% FG 29% 3p

    Keep in mind Wade faced the squad with the elite defense as well as guarding their number one offensive threat at the time (Ray Allen)

    Now who is the top 3 guy?

  • barons beard

    my post was @ Rafa23, but somehow it got posted above his??

  • TheBestPG

    Chicagorilla,

    Please take some time and explain to everyone why you mentioned Luke Walton and Kirk Heinrich in the same sentence with Scottie Pippen, Tim Duncan, Kevin McHale, as examples of players with good fundamentals.

    I will bet Dime’s payroll that you are a white.

  • Detroit Dave

    #17 is Clearly smoking that Crystal Meth. Vince Carter has never ever, ever, ever been better than Kobe. Vince had 1 year when he was considered a TOP 5 Player in the League in 2001.

  • http://www.cnnsi.com JAY

    Melo has Lebron’s number since high school.

  • http://www.cnnsi.com JAY

    Just gonna add my 2 cents to Chicagorilla’s point…
    “Then because David Stern needed to hype the NBA, all of a sudden Tim Duncan’s 20-10 is the greatest ever…acting like Malone and Barkley didn’t ish on those numbers. Also acting like Duncan ain’t a f^king center at 7ft 260lbs playing back to the basket.”

    I agree about that. Stern hypes up current players. He has to. He needs to grow his sport. If they always marketed guys as “not-as-good-as” other guys, the league wouldn’t have grown 10-fold over the last 20 years.

    And regarding Chicagorilla’s last sentence and Duncan really being a center… just another reason why you can’t disrespect Shaq. No matter how old and fat he is, you have to give it up. The man changed the game and he changed his position. If Shaq wasn’t in the league, Duncan is a full-time center. Shaq made coaches move their skilled centers to the PF spot and play the big worthless Jason Collins type goons as center. Why?? Bcuz they didn’t want them to tire themselves out guarding Shaq. He scared every center to play PF. It’s only been over the last 6-7 years that skilled players are playing center again.

  • iannyb

    Remember Jerry called out Chris for “not giving it his all”. Jerry has to realize that now he not only operates in the Capacity of the Raptors GM, but also as that of Team USA’s. He needs to be more reserved and civilised with his rants.

  • Chise

    @Chicagorilla

    I see your comments on here all the time, and I respect your knowledge of the game. Your opinions are usually spot on. But I absolutely HAVE to disagree with your assessment of Kobe being anti-fundamental. You completely disregarded his footwork and attributed it to his athleticism? Josh Smith’s footwork.. bad. Dwight Howard’s footwork.. TERRIBLE! LeBron James’ footwork will always be infamously linked to that awful crab dribble, yet those are the 3 most athletic guys in the league. Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant ARE two of the most fundamental players of all-time. Just because they each had a tendancy to make an INCREDIBLE shot here and there doesn’t mean they aren’t fundamental. Find me two other 6’6″ shooting guards that back their defenders down to the block and hit them with a “Hakeem-lite” type post-game. Up and unders, step-throughs, perfect touch off glass. Fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals.

    @Dime.

    You guys can chill out on the whole Durant over Wade thing now lol. You posted the article asking US what we thought, and the response wasn’t even close. Almost every commenter had Wade over Durant, and about 50% had Wade over LeBron. Durant is nice but like Stunnaboy said, he’s getting a little TOO much hype now. He is the future, and sky’s the limit; but right now he’s as good as Dirk… which is amazing, top 5-6 players IMO but NOT better than D-Wade. C’mon now.

  • Chise

    “Who gives a crap about fundamentals, taking (and making) difficult shots, coaches, system…all of those poor-ass excuses. This mf’r gets buckets. This mf’r wins rings. End of story.” -808

    Amen to that.

  • D12Magic

    @Chicagorilla

    Dude how can u say Vince Carter was better than Kobe in his prime??!! Wince isn’t better than Kobe at anything! Kobe’s a better shooter, better all around scorer, better defender, etc, etc. Kobe has MUCH MORE HEART & is MUCH MORE CLUTCH than pussy-ass Wince… the only thing in which Wince can compete with Kobe is dunking ability and that doesn’t mean a lot when it comes to being a good basketball player.

  • D12Magic

    @Chicagorilla

    Dude how can u say Vince Carter was better than Kobe in his prime??!! Wince isn’t better than Kobe at anything! Kobe’s a better shooter, better all around scorer, better defender, etc, etc. Kobe has MUCH MORE HEART & is MUCH MORE CLUTCH than pussy-ass Wince… the only thing in which Wince can compete with Kobe is dunking ability and that doesn’t mean a lot when it comes to being a good basketball player.

  • dapro

    Couple of things

    Durant is nice but he’s not better than Wade right now, maybe in a few years he’ll be the best player in the league but that’s still debatable there is too much talent in the league

    I’d said this for years, Wade is 1b to Kobe’s 1A then Lebron

    A healthy Dwade can go toe to toe with Kobe no question

    @CHICAGORILLA

    As much as I don’t like the Lakers or Kobe, even I have to give him his due. He’s the most fundamentally sound and complete player in the league for years now. Yes he takes difficult shots, but he actually practices those high degree of difficulty shots- fade aways, floaters, bank shots, etc….That’s all part of fundamentals

    Growing up and still living in the Chi, there is no way in hell anyone can compare Kobe to his Airness but Kobe earned top dog status.

  • LoBezn0

    Damn, if I were studying in the US I’d file my internship application with you guys the minute you needed interns.

  • mules

    “Celtics gets older, wiser, older by adding Shaq to the Big Five”

    nice grammars

  • That’s What’s Up

    When I think top players, I also think “Defense”. So, in Melo’s case, no he is not a top player. He is definitely a top Offensive player, but his defense is so bad I can’t put him up with the best all-around.

    …and Chicagorilla talks too damn but, Some is good, some is bad…..but damn there is a lot of it. I disagree with your assessment of the Celtics (post 6). Hell, I had Miami taking them out in the 1st round three months ago and all they did was man up, play hard, go to The Finals and almost pull out a Game 7 on the road against the defending Champion Lakers. So nah, I ain’t buyin’ what you’re selling until I see them exit in the playoffs

  • control

    I kind of agree with what Chicagorilla is saying. Kobe has amazing foot work, amazing inside/outside game, great basketball IQ, and pretty decent athletics…but his fundamentals…I don’t know. He doesn’t always make the RIGHT play, nor does he always take the easy and less flashy road. He’ll always get himself into situations in which he’s triple teamed, and still jacks up the shot (producing an airball which Ron Artest can then finish, for example).

    Kobe goes into selfish ball hogging mode, and freezes out teammates all the time, is that really truly good basketball fundamentals? If Kobe was the most fundamental player out there, he’d be feeding the hot Gasol more, playing inside-outside more, and doing a lot of the basic small shit that a guy like TD does. Kobe really comes into the game pushing an agenda (prove I’m the greatest is usually the main one) a little bit too much, and he sacrifices the team game a lot when he goes into those modes. That shit just ain’t fundamental.

  • Ray

    Carmelo as the 3rd best in the league? What the hell are you smoking? Carmelo is one of the most overrated players in the L in my opinion. Dude can score, but that’s about it. Poor leadership skills, inadequate all-around game, and questionable character. Definitely not in the same breath as kobe, lebron, and dwade.

  • Ian

    jay
    shaq caused duncan to be a pf?? sorry i think the admiral had something to do with that. shaq and duncan are 3-3 i think in playoffs head to head so i dont know about this dominating crap oh and thats with shaq having the best sidekick or teammate everytime.

    chicagorilla i actually agree with 90% of the stuff u have been writing today except for carter over kobe and that duncan bs when even barkley himself calls tim the best. did barkley and malone play d like timmy used to?? were any of them near as clutch hell no they had great teams to win and they didnt thats why hes the best. take away jordans six rings and no one would consider him the best so please dont act like rings dont mean shit. they are some speacial players that win with a team that isnt the best in the l from time to time like wade in 06 hakeem in 94 guess who in 03 ended tha lakers dynasty with a 45 year old david robinson and speedy fuckin claxton playin the 4th over parker because he sucked back then. could barkley and malone do that hell no. btw u talked about stern hypin up tim duncan?? thats a bad example.

    durant better than wade lol guess that makes durant the best player in the league then.

  • Ian

    jay
    one more thing why didnt shaq guard td back then also?? isnt it the same for both sides. tim duncan is the best player after the jordan era and easy then shaq then kobe then who cares.

  • LakeShow84

    *sighs*

    basketball fundamentals have less to do with decision making and more to do with footwork, touch, balance, etc, etc

    Dude takes horrible shots but players around the league praise dude for his fundamentals.. even Stoudemire said it this past playoff series that one of the reasons Kobe is best right now is because of his FOOTWORK..

    You can nitpick a lot of things about Kobe but fundamentals?? Ni$$as is reaching SUPERHIGH lmao

    It would be you too ChiTown lol dont be mad cuz ol boy comin for that #1 spot :)

  • Ian

    hey lakeshow
    did u finally pick up the ps3??? i need someone to 360 in street fighter 4

  • LakeShow84

    :(

    No still on the 360.. shit i havent even gotten the SUPER SF4 yet..

    slackin my man lol

  • Ian

    hahahha true
    u cant play it on the 360 because of that sucky dpad unless u have a arcade stick. pick the damn game up its like 30 bucks only and you get almost 40 fighters.

  • LakeShow84

    And joining the Celtics proves one thing.. he was never a Laker..

    You dont earn your stripes in LA and then head over to Boston.. You aint Rick Fox foo!!!

    @ Ian

    Ill do that my man.. i need another game.. honestly im waiting for 2K11 but i do need somethin in the meantime..

  • Ian

    i hate basketball games ill maybe pick up elite cuz u get nba jam with it but i might still just get it on the wii because it has some extra game modes havent decided yet.

  • LakeShow84

    Yeah i havent messed with 2k’s in a minute but they do got MJ in there so having MJ and Kobes go head2head basically settles it for me lol

    I saw previews for NBA Jam tho.. looks SICK lol

  • OneZero

    amazing, Kobe was only mentioned briefly in the article, and ppl end up debating almost anything out of him

    fundamentals has nothing to do with decision making, thats more to the play-making ability.

    saying Vince is better than Kobe at any point is ridiculous

    “Kobe is a legendary scorer, but thats it” shit, he won 5 titles, 2 mvp finals.

  • That’s What’s Up

    @ control.
    I agree about Kobe.

    I’ve been on this blog for a lot of years and I’ve always said the same things.

    I also feel Kobe has a lot, I mean a lot, of bad shooting games. too many bad shooting games

  • control

    LakeShow

    Fundamentals have a lot to do with decision making, etc. Kobe takes at least 40-50% of his shots while he’s off balance, with a defender in his face, in a weird position, etc. Are you telling me spinning out of control while being double teamed and still jacking up a shot is the fundamental method of shooting? That little league coaches teaching lil’ fuckers their first Jshot are like “yeah, first you want to step this way, spin this way, jump in the air, kick into your defender, scream for foul, then jack your shot and glare at ref”. How many of Kobe’s plays are EXACTLY that? He gets a high amount of them, but he also misses a shit tun. If he used his amazing footwork, skills, etc to play a purely fundamental game, he’d be an even better player than he is now…

  • http://www.cnnsi.com JAY

    @ #41 Ian: “shaq caused duncan to be a pf?? sorry i think the admiral had something to do with that. shaq and duncan are 3-3 i think in playoffs head to head so i dont know about this dominating crap oh and thats with shaq having the best sidekick or teammate everytime.”

    I was waiting for someone to argue… thank you for stepping up. Lol.
    – Admiral played with Duncan for how many years?? And how many years did Duncan play power forward??
    – Of course Shaq didn’t guard Duncan. Shaq guards his own position. When the Spurs played against Shaq, Pop put Duncan at PF. It was Nesto who played center against Shaq. Then against other teams, Duncan played center. It’s not Duncan’s fault. Pop made a good coaching decision… he hid his best post player and played a lesser bigman to take the fouls on Shaq. That’s why Pop is one of the best… he makes smart decisions.

    Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Rasheed Wallace, Chris Webber, Al Jefferson could have been AT LEAST part-time centers. and before you argue about KG-isn’t-a-center. His game is identical to David Robinson just with less screaming and less psycho. The Admiral was 240 in his prime and so was KG. If D-Rob was a fulltime center, KG could have at least played part-time. Shaq scared their coaches and made them play the other power position. Look at the guys who played center when Shaq was dominant… Dudley, Jason Collins, Nesterovic. You’re telling me after an era of the skilled center (Walton, Parish, Ewing, Olajuwon, D-Rob, Alonzo, Smits, Mutombo, Sabonis) they all just disappeared for no reason?? They didn’t disappear. Coaches hid them from Shaq at the PF spot.

    And about this quote from you… “shaq and duncan are 3-3 i think in playoffs head to head so i dont know about this dominating crap”
    When the hell did I mention ANYTHING about ANYBODY dominating?? Quote a direct post from me. I’m saying Shaq changed his position. Period. If you’re going to argue with me, then argue that… don’t make up shit that I haven’t posted.

  • silky

    people sayin kobe is the most fundamental is clown talk. sounds like a lot of people who never played ball at any kinda level talking. rat ballers

  • LakeShow84

    @ Control

    What looks like a bad shot to you is something that these players practice ALL THE TIME..

    Good balance, jumps off both feet, shoulders squared, backs straight (sometimes lol), elbows in and ball comes off the finger tips..

    That spin you pointed out?? watch when he shoots that shot tho.. he waits until hes squared with the hoop and STILL jumps off both feet.. how is that out of control??

    And yes even does this when hes facing a double.. So if his shot is fundamentally sound does it matter at what point he shoots it?? That would have to do more with DECISION MAKING right??

    And im sure Kobes is one of the NBA’s all time greatest scorers because he “spin this way, jump in the air, kick into your defender, scream for foul, then jack your shot”

    Lol you act like dude still droppin buckets because hes out jumping everyone and beating everyone off the dribble..

  • control

    LakeShow

    If they were such great shots, then why does Kobe have a steady stream of 20pts in 25 shots, shooting 25-35% from the field? It looks like a bad shot because in most cases it IS a bad shot. I know guys who practice half court shots for 30 minutes a day, but if they are on my pickup team and start jacking from half court, I’m going to be pissed, even if they manage to get a few in.

    I don’t care who you are, or how much you practice, if you are doing all of that crazy shit while shooting a shot, your shot will have a lesser chance of going in. How many times do you see guys like Tim Duncan, or Grant Hill doing all of that shit while they shoot? Kobe is making all sorts of adjustments while he’s IN THE AIR with his shot, do you think that his shot wouldn’t be better if he didn’t do all of that shit before hand?

    As far as decision making goes, not many of the truly fundamental players in the NBA decide to go 2 or 3 on 1 very often (and nobody in the NBA does it as much as Kobe right now, unless AI comes back). They usually pass the ball in those situations, or at least fake to pass (Kobe can fake, but his defenders KNOW it ain’t real).

    Kobe’s not beating anyone off the dribble lately, he might have been top 10 athlete in the NBA a while back, but he surely isn’t right now. That isn’t even close to what I was saying.

  • K Dizzle

    Come on to Dime today to read that Kobe is the best player, but “if he wasn’t, then DWade would be”…then dudes proceed to throw out weak shit like he “takes tough shots”. If that ain’t the most nitpickiest shit I’ve read in a few weeks, I don’t know what is. Haters are comedy. Proppin other players for shit THEY CAN’T DO. DWade don’t take those fadeaways cuz he don’t have the size to back bigger guards down, but he uses his speed to get by dudes and finishes just as tough shots as Kobe does. Just cuz they ain’t fadeaways don’t mean they ain’t tough shots. Know why Kobe takes those 3 pump fadeaways on Grant Hill in a playoff game-in the 4th quarter-with the game on the line-from damn near 23 feet-averagin 33,8,7-with an assslap for Coach Gentry? Cuz he can…Point blank. Is there any doubt that as soon as the knee is clear, Kobe gonna add ANOTHER tweak to his game? Dude works on those shots, has confidence in himself and has hit enough in the clutch to keep shootin em.
    @ Chicagorilla – you were right about one thing. Arguin anybody other than Kobe, winnin a chip with one hand and one leg, being the best right now was gonna be a waste of time. Vince Carter was better? When? In Oakland? That’s a dunk exhibition. T-Mac was better? For 2 seasons, TMac scored like Kobe, but then check out the All-Defense teams. Kobe got somethin like 8 1st team, 2 2nd team. TMac? Check Gilbert Arena’s number. You haters need better arguments after a 6’6 guard seeks out HAKEEM OLAJUWON to teach him footwork when he already has the best footwork in the league. Y’all even know what kinda insane drive to be the best would drive a dude to do that after he just won ANOTHER chip? Do better next time.

    @ Iannyb – Bryan, not Jerry…

  • LakeShow84

    @ Control

    Well first i never said they were GOOD shots.. all i said was the FUNDAMENTALS on his shot ie, balance, posture, rotation are basically sound..

    Your not understand the difference between Fundamentals and decision making..

    You practive fundamentals so you dont have to THINK about them anymore.. Post players dont think “ok i got hook him NOW” nah they practice it so they dont need to think about it.. Thats fundamentals.. its subliminal

    you always have to think about your decision making on the court.. “ok they playing a zone should i drag it left or right??” thats decision making.. its constant

  • Skeeter McGee

    @Chigorilla

    You are ridiculous, sir. Be reasonable. Don’t try to be a hero…

  • Skeeter McGee

    And Kobe is hands down the best player in the League. I don’t need to explain why. Just look at all the players y’all consider top 5 in the League right now and how many of them have more than one, or hell even one, championships.

  • LakeShow84

    “Know why Kobe takes those 3 pump fadeaways on Grant Hill in a playoff game-in the 4th quarter-with the game on the line-from damn near 23 feet-averagin 33,8,7-with an assslap for Coach Gentry? Cuz he can…Point blank.”

    Thats pretty much my sentiments exactly..

    And it is some nitpickin shit lol

  • control

    LakeShow & KDiz

    Kobe doesn’t have to be #1 in every single category in the NBA. He’s the cool choice for best player in the NBA right now, be happy with that…don’t start fighting because someone said he’s not the most fundamentally sound player in the NBA (he isn’t).

    “Your not understand the difference between Fundamentals and decision making..” – Of course I understand the difference between them. You seem to be confusing amazing footwork (which I’ve never denied him having) with fundamentals. You also seem to include muscle memory with fundamentals.

    fun·da·men·tal (fnd-mntl)
    adj.
    1.
    a. Of or relating to the foundation or base; elementary: the fundamental laws of the universe.
    b. Forming or serving as an essential component of a system or structure; central: an example that was fundamental to the argument.

    There is the definition of fundamental in the context in which we are discussing. Which part of Kobe’s crazy shots falls into “relating to the foundation or base” of jump shooting? If you are saying Kobe is fundamentally perfect, then coaches would be teaching kids how to shoot exactly like Kobe…because coaches are teaching the kids the FUNDAMENTALS of basketball. The fundamentals practiced are the BASE moves you practice, so you don’t need to think about them. What Kobe practices is far from fundamental, in every definition of the word.

    All I’m saying is that IF Kobe were actually more fundamentally sound as a player, he would be an even BETTER player than he is now. How can you really argue that? How can you actually watch him play and not be like “wow, if he would have just shook his guy and taken a normal shot, he would have got that”?

  • LakeShow84

    “Forming or serving as an essential component of a system or structure; central: an example that was fundamental to the argument.
    There is the definition of fundamental in the context in which we are discussing. Which part of Kobe’s crazy shots falls into “relating to the foundation or base” of jump shooting?”

    Because his FORM is usually perfect.. his decision to shoot over 2 defenders is not..

    Hence his “ESSENTIAL component (fundamentals) of the system or structure” is fine.. its his decision making as another part of the SAME component/system that makes it into something else.. basically the top of the pyramid has shit all over it while the base is golden..

    get it??

  • LakeShow84

    To tell you the truth Control i just feel like arguing lol

  • http://www.cnnsi.com JAY

    Kobe has good fundamentals but his game is far from fundamental. Come on guys. Most of the players in the league should have good fundamentals. It’s the best league in the world. If a player doesn’t have the fundamentals down, then they’ll have a hard time sticking around.

    Everything Kobe does is advance basketball. From his footwork, to his fadeaway. Just because a player has good fundamentals doesn’t mean their game IS fundamental. I’m not going to pull out definitions… just my opinion.

    @Lakeshow: “To tell you the truth Control i just feel like arguing lol”
    You’re a dick. Lmao!!! Funny shit.

  • Ian

    jay
    comon duncan had dave for half his career and the rest nesto and nazr are a better fit at center than pf. so really duncan could only start at center for what the last two three years?

    you say shaq caused all those players to play pf i say td and dirk caused that by dominating the game from a positions that used to be for just rebounds.

    the players u mentioned really webber and jefferson centers?? they cant guard me. kgs game is like the admirals?? you dont remember the admiral dave got at least 30 pounds over kg and what superstar center can kgs bones guard?? they are no way the same type of player the admiral was better no wait scratch that way better at both ends and a lot stronger so he could play guys like shaq and zo something garnett cant even dream of doing.

    shaq became shaq when the 90s super centers got old or retired because he was putting up the same numbers from 99-04 he was putting up 93-99 the only diff is the there are no centers to give it back. i remember everytime spurs or rockets played orlando shaq got owned. you say coaches hid their players pf and c are just a name for a position if shaq was so great he could guard the players u mentioned but he couldnt and thats why phil protected him also. still pfs today not named duncan arent as good as the centers we had before.

    i know u didnt mention the dominating thing but i just wanted to say it.

    btw you are welcomed.

  • http://getyourishbusted.net Chicagorilla

    Damn I make a few comments about Kobe and Mfers go ballistic.

    Again, I don’t argue too much when people say Kobe is #1 in the L. I can see why, he scores, he wins, he’s got rings, he does phenominal $h!t on the court from time to time or even a whole season (35 per/broken finger). I’m not taking that away from him. My only point was the fundamental crap.

    As a basketball coach, the last thing I would ever teach a player is to shoot a fadeaway. It’s not a good shot under any circumstance. Sure you can perfect it like Jordan, Hakeem, Kobe, Ewing, VC, and Wade have, but that doesn’t change the lower percentage you shoot vs a regular jumpshot.

    Ask Bobby Knight, Dean Smith, John Wooden, Tom Izzo, or any all-time great coach if this is a good shot.

    One of the best lines i read so far was i think Control on Kobe, something like “Taking the flashier road is not fundamental” and “Kobe seems to have an agenda to prove he is the man every game”.
    The problem is I think too many people believed all the BS announcers used to say about Jordan. Believing that he wasn’t a passer early in his career (even though he avg 28pts 5 reb and 5 asst as a rookie and throughout his entire career), or that he didn’t play defense (even though he only got on the court at UNC because he played great D in practice and was competitive). Or that he didn’t trust his teammates…even though Enis Whatley and Orlando Woolridge was ball hogs and garbage. All that lies contributed to MJ’s greatness so people try to make the “Next” follow the same path. Truth be told, Bird said it best “MJ was the best player in the NBA after the first game he played in”. Or something like that. Jordan just spent the next 20yrs after 85′ seperating himself to the point where you couldn’t argue anyone was better than him.

    @Lakeshow

    Fundamentals is very much so included in IQ and decision making. Take someone like Bret Farve…he has great talent, but bad fundamentals. The angles at which he throws, and the tight holes he tries to throw between. but someone like Tom Brady or Payton Manning who has great fundamentals are clearly better. But Farve is the most beloved (thanks in large part to John Maddens man-crush on him) so he gets the most hype.

  • Stunnaboy09

    Wow Kobe heads can’t let Kobe sleep not number 1 can they? as someone said almost no star player is fundamental. Maybe Duncan. Thats it.
    -Nash screening for Stoudamire and handing it off? not fundamnetal.

    -Durant spotting uf for a contested 3? Not fundamental.

    -Wade splitting double teams? Not fundamental.

    -80% of Kobe’s shots? Not fundamental.

    The way I see it fundamentals are things you learn growing up by coaches. Passing with two hands to the chest, taking open shots, boxing out. No coach will EVER tell you to fadeaway with 2 men on you in history of this earth.

    His footwork, like everyone else said, is AMAZING. If he wanted to he could be a very fundamental player but that isnt Kobe, who has never met a doubleteam he couldn’t shoot over.

  • http://getyourishbusted.net Chicagorilla

    @Ian,

    Come on man, this is not a knock at Duncan. I love Tim not matter how boring people say he is. And I even believe you have an argument as far Duncan being the best PF ever…just one thing, I don’t believe he is a PF. He doesn’t play anything like a traditional Pf. When he came in the L at 7ft 220lbs with D-Rob being the Franchise center still it makes sense to put him at PF. Even though he clearly was on the blocks all game while DRob was hitting jumpers from the top of the key.

    Duncan plays the same game that Brad Daugherty played, almost identical. Duncan has more dribbling ability and is a better passer but their back to the basket game is the exact same along with their size. Brad was without a doubt a center in the 80’s and 90’s, but Duncan somehow is a PF?

    KG was a little different in that he never really got bigger. He came in the L at 200lbs and hovered around 220-240 his entire career. Also, KG is more of a jumpshooter than Duncan (even though he’d be better off posting up, but whatever) which allowed lesser centers (like Ervin Johnson and Joe Smith) to play the center position. Same thing Pop did with Duncan except Pop would get centers and other PFs that can shoot and play away from the basket (like Nesto and Robert Horry) so Duncan still had the blocks to himself. It’s a great coaching decision which is why i think Pop is so great.

    and Even as a Center, Duncan is still top 5 so why are you tripping? You’re acting like i’m staying he’s a scrub or something.

  • Ian

    chicago
    in my post to u i want tryin to insult or anything if it sounded mad then i apologize i was talking when comparing td with barkley and malone. i consider both of them to be way overrated because of their stats that is all i was kinda tryin to say. besided u know im a fan i get worked up easy.

  • sh!tfaced

    LMAO @ “Damn I make a few comments about Kobe and Mfers go ballistic.”

    So f’ing true…

  • http://getyourishbusted.net Chicagorilla

    @Ian,

    haha aight i get it.

    @Sh!tfaced, the crazy part is, I never took anything away from Kobe, I respect him more than LBJ. But if you don’t agree with EVERYTHING ever said about Kobe then you’re a hater. That makes no sense.

    I also don’t think many people watch basketball outside of their favorite teams. I will watch ANY basketball. Hell I just watched the LA Sparks beat the Chicago Sky…yes WNBA. Its because I love basketball, I’m a true junkie. I’m still watching old VHS tapes from the 80’s and 90’s (my cable is out so i got free time lol) to compare the different eras. And from what i’ve seen so far, the foul calling has completly changed the game and ruined my perception of these current players. Yes, that even includes my hometown hero Derrick Rose. I just don’t have much respect for what these guys are doing.

    As a AAU coach I believe the rules in highschool and college are better than the NBA which makes true talent previal (unless of course its Duke getting a ton of calls goign their way to win the chip lmao).

    this is why I would make a terrible writer for DIME, I would never just say what people want me to say, just what i see.

  • LakeShow84

    But Kobe never takes bad shots!!!!

    blasphemy!!!

    lol and JAY u said u just wanted to argue too hahaha

  • http://www.cnnsi.com JAY

    @Lakeshow…
    Yeah. Some days are slow at work.