You Ain’t A Killer: How America Mislabeled LeBron James
LeBron James is not Michael Jordan.
He never was Michael Jordan and he never will be Michael Jordan. MJ was a killer. An assassin on the basketball court whose goal was to cripple his opponent, both mentally and physically. Stripping players of their confidence, then burying them into the ground.
From what we’ve seen this summer, LeBron just isn’t wired that way.
On July 29th, 2010, LeBron sent out a tweet: “Congrats to Eddie House. Welcome to Team ‘John Dillinger.’ Happy to have u.”
Team John Dillinger?
For those who don’t recognize the name, John Dillinger was an outlaw who lived in the 1930’s and became one of the most notorious criminals in American history. Public Enemies, a film released in 2008 starring Johnny Depp, told the story of John Dillinger.
After reading LeBron’s tweet, it took me a second but then I realized something; LeBron James has no regrets with his decision. He doesn’t care that he’s not “The Man” anymore. He’s OK with not having to carry a team on his back. He doesn’t mind letting someone else take the last shot. Maybe he did actually put some thought into Miami. Maybe he is happy to be playing alongside Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh.
“There’s no way, with hindsight, I would’ve ever called up Larry [Bird], called up Magic [Johnson] and said, ‘Hey, look, let’s get together and play on one team.”
This was Michael Jordan‘s response when asked about LeBron’s “Decision” during a celebrity golf tournament in Nevada. “But things are different,” Jordan added. “I can’t say that’s a bad thing. It’s an opportunity these kids have today. But in all honesty, I was trying to beat those guys.”
I couldn’t have said it any better myself. Michael wanted to beat the competition while LeBron wanted to join them. And that’s what separates MJ from LBJ.
But this John Dillinger reference had to have a deeper meaning. It had to be more than just a catchy name that ESPN could blow up. John Dillinger was an outlaw, a man hated by many and feared by all. Could they have planned on becoming that team? Are they going to embrace the idea of being hated? Being the outlaws of the NBA, the team that everyone hates, just like Mr. Dillinger?
Regardless of the tweet, America mislabeled LeBron James. I think we assumed based on his talent that he was like Mike. That just because he was one of the best players in the NBA, he had that competitive greatness built into him. We believed part of his DNA was “assassin.” We assumed he had the killer gene. We adopted the idea that he wanted to win as bad as Michael. We pictured LeBron as the guy in the big game telling his teammates, “I am not going to let us lose this game.” But we were wrong. LeBron likes to win. He wants to win. But he won’t kill to win. In the offseason, the greats worked. Jordan worked on his jump shot. Kobe worked on his post game. LeBron promoted his documentary.
In a recent Sports Illustrated article written by Ian Thompson, LeBron makes a couple of statements that solidified my opinion that he has been mislabeled. In the article, LeBron says that because of the players around him, he won’t have to score every night and he can be more like Magic. He goes on to say that he could be more of a facilitator and potentially average a triple-double.
Because of LeBron’s supporting cast in Cleveland, he was forced score. He was never allowed a bad night and people’s expectations of him were unattainable. If LeBron had gone 6-for-24 in a Game 7 of the NBA Finals with last year’s Cleveland team, they’d lose by 20.
My point is this: Maybe he has more Magic in him than Michael. Maybe he’s a bigger, stronger and more talented Magic Johnson without that Michael Jordan “killer instinct” DNA strand. Maybe he’s supposed to be the point guard you created in NBA Live when you were 12 that was 7-foot-7, weighed 400 pounds, and could dunk from the three-point line.
Instead of a scorer, maybe he’s meant to be something else. Something that we’ve never seen before. Someone who is a mismatch for everyone. Someone who can create shots for teammates, excite the crowd with a hellacious dunks, and simply run a team. Maybe he’s a just point guard with freakish size and skills who was thrust into a situation that wasn’t right. Maybe … we’ll just have to wait and see.
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August 12th, 2010 at 10:10 am
sans says:
Are you trying to say that Magic Johnson didn’t have a will to win at all costs witht his comparison? Jordan never had a rival or a team as great as Bird’s Celtics or Moses’ Sixers….those teams were stacked right with the Lakers, and now the Heat. You wanna say something, start callin Lebron, Big Game LBJames if you wanna calll him a sidekick.
August 12th, 2010 at 10:11 am
markofresh says:
First!
“So i JFK, Join forces with the kings and we ate all day”
August 12th, 2010 at 10:12 am
D says:
You can blame the media, or even the people who market LBJ, but he calls himself the “Chosen One,” “King James,” etc. If he really was not these things, then why did he adopt these titles?
August 12th, 2010 at 10:12 am
My Favorite Superhero says:
Good read…I do agree that he was mislabled as “the next” and good point in bringing up how others worked on their game instead of their corporate image in the off-season…I’m pretty sure LBJ does the same, but I doubt it’s as intense as a Kobe or a Jordan
August 12th, 2010 at 10:14 am
fallinup says:
WE???? I for one, was the one screaming at the top of my lungs that Bron aint no MJ. Even before “The Decision”.
Oh yeah… I was labeled by his many dick riders that I was a “hater”.
** wank wank
August 12th, 2010 at 10:18 am
Rg03 says:
Go to http://www.courtsoftheworld.com
August 12th, 2010 at 10:24 am
ctkennedy says:
why is everybody quick to act like lebron cant outplay wade …wade got more weakness than lebron in his game….no other player in the LEAGUE could of took that roster to 60wins back to back season NOBODY..everybody knows that basketball is about matchups they only won one matchup in the magic and celtics series ….whoever went against lebron….he had a better game than kobe with the season on the line against the same team…kobe just got better teammates period..kobe plays with 4 of the top 50 players in the league…odom,gasol,artest,and bynum …mo williams and anderson vareago is top 75 at best …dont talk about jamison u saw what happen when he had to man up with the wizards 19 wins with a quote on quote all star with him (caron butler)..what do yall want lebron to do
August 12th, 2010 at 10:28 am
Taj says:
NWO… LeBron is Hogan, Bosh is Razor Ramon and Dwade = Kevin Nash!
August 12th, 2010 at 10:29 am
Scott says:
It’s funny, cuz I believe that Magic was more MJ than LeBron. Magic would’ve easily told his team time and time again that he wouldn’t let them lose. Consider the move to play center in the finals, that’s telling them right there he’ll do whatever it takes to win. And that was his rookie season.
LeBron is LeBron. Maybe with a more stacked team his ‘killer’ instinct will come out. But IF you want to compare the two, I would say maybe instead of comparing LeBron to Magic. Maybe he’s more Pippen like. With the will to win, but without the need to be the Man on his squad.
Ok, I lied. Pippen was a beast and desperately wanted the shot at the end of games when Jordan retired.
What the fuck is wrong with LeBron James, maybe it’s been too easy for too long.
August 12th, 2010 at 10:32 am
Tee says:
It took you this long to figure that out. He’s more like Dr J than Magic. Magic went to the Finals 9 times with 5 rings. He hasn’t even won a game in the finals yet.
August 12th, 2010 at 10:32 am
WinDelRoj says:
Big Pun=genius
Anyway I remember when he was coming out of high school. I remember all the comparisons calling him the next Magic. He was supposed to be playing point guard this whole time. Except there was no Kareem… so he had to score. Curious to see who he really is on the court cause I dont think we’ve seen it yet
August 12th, 2010 at 10:34 am
mike says:
If LeBron had Scottie Pippen, Kevin McHale, or James worthy in their primes, he probably wouldn’t have to go anywhere, but Cleveland was still a one seed with Mo Williams and Vereajeo as major minute guys.
August 12th, 2010 at 10:42 am
Curt says:
Maybe when Lebron went for 6/24 in game 7, maybe Mo scored 20 and Jamison had 20 and Shaq had 20. Maybe they’ll win anyway. All im saying is, he doesn’t have a bad team. He has a better cast than Dwight but nobody talks about that, making excuses for him. Celtics just owned them, was the better team. And can we get over the 6/24 shooting. Dude had a bad shooting night but worked like a m&@$)(ucker. 15 rebounds? I agree they might loose 20 if he shot like that, but then if he grabbed 15 rebounds and hussled, then might win by 6, and that’s how you win games, not by being “perfect”.
August 12th, 2010 at 10:44 am
QazQami says:
the more i see hate for him, the more i love what he brought to the basketball world since he’s 15
he’s the ultimate player. No1 can matchup with him
August 12th, 2010 at 10:45 am
George W Kush Sr says:
“Maybe he’s supposed to be the point guard you created in NBA Live when you were 12 that was 7-foot-7, weighed 400 pounds, and could dunk from the three-point line.”
ROTFLMAO
August 12th, 2010 at 10:52 am
control says:
I don’t know why ppl giving James a hard time over wanting to leave teammates like Mo Williams, Big Daddy West and Valgina. I wouldn’t even want those three playing with me on a church league team (West seems skilled enough, crazy as fuck and I’d hate to have to guard my mom from him…). He was only first in every single stat category for the Cavs…do you think he got much help? Guy is probably tired from carrying those guys on his back for 7 years, can’t blame him for moving on to something that could be a potentially amazing team (or could flop).
The way he went about moving on was VERY douchebaggy, but I don’t know if anyone has noticed…but almost everything on TV and in this world, revolves around douchebags. The Celts are a team full of douchebags, people still watch them play (and hype of their PG as the greatest to ever live, though he’s not even close). People watch Jersey Shore. People watch reality TV. The most popular show on TV is a Karaoke contest filled with flaming douches. LeBron James just realizes that this entire country is filled with people who are fascinated by douchebags, and he does what he has to do to get attention from those douchebag craving douchebags.
I might have overused the word “douchebag”, but I can’t think of another one that fits better…
August 12th, 2010 at 10:52 am
Loc says:
One of the best articles on Dime in a while.
August 12th, 2010 at 10:59 am
thedoc says:
One thing that struck me watching him play in high school is that he was much more the passer/facilitator than what he developed into while in Cleveland. I think he’s happiest when he’s playing point and setting up other guys, more Magic than MJ. He could’ve dominated the ball every game in high school, but if you watched him, he did a lot of passing and deferring. I think that’s when he’s the most comfortable and happiest. Cleveland forced his hand to shoot tons of shots and dominate the ball. I don’t think he really wants that. I bet he thrives in Miami.
August 12th, 2010 at 11:10 am
padoods says:
one of the best articles on dime in a while…but totally unoriginal. most of what was mentioned here was discussed by simmons and klosterman on the BS report
August 12th, 2010 at 11:12 am
Diggity Dave says:
In the end, the Heat have a great team. Keep on crying, Scott; but next time, please do it into your own pillow so we don’t have to hear it.
August 12th, 2010 at 11:15 am
the truth says:
good post
August 12th, 2010 at 11:23 am
Celts Fan says:
@WinDelRoj – i been saying that for years now. He was billed as a SPECIAL passer. More Magic than MJ. Closer to ’97 Grant Hill than Kobe.
@Taj – you ain’t kidding. I made that same joke yesterday. He just turned heel and now he’s grabbing the mic (Twitter) to talk ish to the crowd (he’s taking notes!)
When they win their first chip, all I want is him to go all Scarface on Sager or whoever does the interview. “What you lookin’ at? You all a bunch of fuckin’ assholes. You know why? You don’t have the guts to be what you wanna be? You need people like me. You need people like me so you can point your fuckin’ fingers and say, “That’s the bad guy.” So… what that make you? Good? You’re not good. You just know how to hide, how to lie. Me, I don’t have that problem. Me, I always tell the truth. Even when I lie. So say good night to the bad guy! Come on. The last time you gonna see a bad guy like this again, let me tell you. Come on. Make way for the bad guy. There’s a bad guy comin’ through! Better get outta his way!”
August 12th, 2010 at 11:25 am
karizmatic says:
I kind of agree with this…except I’m not sure at this point that LBJ has the killer instinct that Magic possessed. I always envisioned him as more Magic than Michael anyway. But if he was really that he would have made his teammates a little better than he made them and he would have played a different style. He would have insisted Mike Brown put him at point guard and they would have run like that. Maybe he’s an example of what happens when a player with Magic’s talent grows up in an era where everyone is trying to be like Mike.
In any case I think to compare him to Magic right now even in terms of killer instinct is disrespectful to Magic.
August 12th, 2010 at 11:30 am
SJ says:
Good read, but I gotta say LBJ is NOT more talented than Magic. No way, not ever. He is more athletic, but Magic is the embodiment of talent.
August 12th, 2010 at 11:38 am
thrilla says:
good lord another article defending lebron
August 12th, 2010 at 11:40 am
karizmatic says:
@CTK
One reason I think people are giving Wade an edge over LBJ right now is because on a subconscious level I think people acknowledge that Wade has more of that killer instinct that is being talked about in this article.
In my opinion it is Wade who has demonstrated time and time again that he has the bordering on maniacal will to win…it is Wade who buries buzzer shots and then jumps on the scorers table to scream to the crowd “THIS IS MY HOUSE” Although LBJ has recorded some soul crushing dunks it is Wade who is known for barreling into a guy like Varejao and standing over him with that look of disdain bordering on hatred…it is Wade who is the machine that every player in the league fears playing against even though many of them have more talent than him…ironically it is Wade who the other guys went to play with…and finally it is Wade who is the pitchman for the Jordan Brand.
I don’t believe these things are coincidences. I think if there is a new Air Apparent in the league in terms of sheer killer instinct it is Dwayne Wade, and I think on a subconscious level everyone knows it. So maybe we will finally find out what happens when you put Magic and Jordan on the same team.
But I’ll tell you this…if you did…your final play would involve Magic bringing the ball up the court…drawing the defense and kicking it out to Jordan for the game winner.
I think on a subconscious level everyone knows that if the Heat get tested this year, the final play will be LBJ bringing the ball up the court, drawing the defense and kicking the ball out to D Wade…Wade hits the shot…LBJ gets the assist…and the Heat get the win. That’s the career that LBJ signed up for when he “took his talents to South Beach.”
August 12th, 2010 at 11:54 am
OFFICIAL says:
Yo where is this whole killer instinct thing coming from??? I remember when the kid carried the team to the finals, with the final 25 points of the game for the Cavs to put them into the Finals. I was in Iraq watching that game, they was goin crazy out there son! Yo alot of people just don’t like the LBJ so they try to tear him down. No disputing he can play, so why we gonna keep knockin the dumb shit like “killer instinct”??? GTFOH son!!!
August 12th, 2010 at 11:55 am
ctkennedy says:
@karizmatic
wade is a better closer no argument here but with that said lebron still top 5-7 in the league we all know livin in miami had ALOT to do with why he went there instead of wade goin to cleveland or chicago for that matter …so if lebron lead the team in every category except buzzer beater which we know lebron gon have a couple himself ..its still wade team?
August 12th, 2010 at 12:04 pm
karizmatic says:
Absolutely…clutch play like that is what separates the men from the boys. In that example Wade hits the shot…if Wade hits the shot Wade won the game for his team…no one cares who threw it to him…do you remember who threw Jordan the inbounds pass when he shot it over Ehlo?
The same thing happened to Magic….they said Magic was a great player but he couldn’t perform in the clutch…until he hit that game winning hook shot against the Celtics. That’s the way these things go.
The “MAN” on any team is the guy who you give the ball to when the game is on the line and you need to make a play. Both of those guys can make plays so it’s going to come down to who can make the shot, who wants it more, who needs to win more. As I said subconsciously I think we all suspect that the “MAN” for that job will be Wade. So…it’s Wade’s team.
August 12th, 2010 at 12:10 pm
Mike Mihalow says:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsP3zrWIWd8
August 12th, 2010 at 12:12 pm
cesar says:
good post!
August 12th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
control says:
Mike Mihalow
Funny video. It’s good to see LeBron working on his game this summer. Man, his wrists look STIFF in those shots, that is almost Rondolike. I love how he has a bunch of fat idiots keeping people 50ft away…way to not be a douchebag James!
August 12th, 2010 at 12:26 pm
JAX says:
Here’s the one thing I’m not seeing…since LeBron’s Cavs had the best record over the last couple of seasons, why didn’t anyone want to come to Cleveland? Obviously, he didn’t need too much more help. That’s the organization’s fault. Los Angeles and Boston, even Chicago it seems, will figure out a way to make it happen. Pau Gasol didn’t just happen to fall to the Lakers. Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett didn’t just happen to the Celtics. Those teams kept their stars and went out and got players, like all those 80′s (and some 90′s) teams that were great TEAMS! And we can’t use free-agency as an excuse. THEY TOOK LESS MONEY IN MIAMI TO PLAY TOGETHER!!!! AND MIAMI DIDN’T HAVE THE CLOSE TO THE BEST RECORD!!! C’MON MAN!!!
August 12th, 2010 at 12:29 pm
Dave says:
When Lebron came into the league, the knock on him was that he couldn’t hit a jumper. Now he’s worked on it enough that you have to guard him when he’s open.
Then the knock was that he can’t play defense. Now he’s recognized as a good defender.
I think LBJ has definitely worked on his game, it’s not fair to say he got that much better without putting in any effort.
If anybody hasn’t worked on his game, it’s Dwyane Wade. The knock on him early in his career was that he doesn’t have range in his jumpers. And this far into his career and he still hasn’t added any range. I love Wade, but his game his rookie year is exactly the same as his game now.
August 12th, 2010 at 12:45 pm
KnicksFan84 says:
Wait a minute. When I was a kid playing NBA Live, I only created a version of me but to 99 ratings across the board. 5’8 but I would play SF. I dunno about no 7 ft 7 pg in create a player mode
August 12th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
miked214 says:
Lebron is no MJ, kobe, and definitely not a Magic.
Some of y’all need to do some research. They never said Magic didn’t have a killer instinct I followed his whole career and never heard that.
Magic..with Kareem out in the deciding game 6 of the NBA finals. AT 20 YEARS OLD: Dropped 42/15/7 3 steals and a block starting at center and played all 5 positions during the game. cut the bull
August 12th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
Card says:
It amazes me how people are saying that Lebron doesn’t worked on his game or isn’t as good as people made him out to be. He’s gotten better at some aspect of his game every year he’s been in the league. He’s the only guy in the league who could have a triple double in a game with 19 or 20 rebounds and people question his effort or say he played poorly.
If any one wants to question his value to the Cavs, check out this stat. In the last 3 years Lebron didn’t suit up for the games in 14 games. Do you know what the team’s record was in those games? The answer is 1 win and 13 losses.
Are you still sure his teammates weren’t that bad?
August 12th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
Celts Fan says:
@miked – that’s, IMO, the best game ever played when you figure in that it was a 20 year old 1 playing hte 5 and in the chip-clinching game. BUT I think people are just talking about comparisons. Like he’s the evolutionary Magic, not the next MJ. I don’t think anyone ever said Magic didn’t have killer instinct…
@ctkennedy – It’s Wade’s team cuz dude’s been there. It’s like the Celtics in 08. While Pierce was the best scorer, KG was the best overall player (kinda like the Magic. Dwight is USELESS as a #1 scorer, but he’s still their best player cuz he’s Godly everywhere else.) Well Bron MAY
August 12th, 2010 at 1:27 pm
Celts Fan says:
* Well Bron MAY (we’re talking the 2nd and 3rd best guys in the league here after Kobe. I’d take Bron #2 personally, but I won’t argue w/ the Wade crowd) be the best player on the team, I want Wade taking the clutch shots and, w/ Bron probably focusing on being one of the best Swiss Army Knives ever, and doing a bit of everything, Wade probably ends up leading the team in scoring. Combine that w/ the fact that he’s been there since day 1 and won a chip w/ this team, it’s gonna be his team either way, just like Pierce and the C’s (ignore the fact that Pierce is the last onee of them that can still play at a high level now. I’m talking about back in ’08…)
August 12th, 2010 at 1:32 pm
control says:
karizmatic
“I think on a subconscious level everyone knows that if the Heat get tested this year, the final play will be LBJ bringing the ball up the court, drawing the defense and kicking the ball out to D Wade…Wade hits the shot…LBJ gets the assist…and the Heat get the win. That’s the career that LBJ signed up for when he “took his talents to South Beach.””
You are talking like that is a bad thing…LeBron James already has a better career than 95+% of players who even manage to make it to the NBA, the guy has two MVP and is undisputed top 3 player in the league. At least now James is passing that last shot to Wade instead of Donyellow Marshall, Sasha Pavolic or Mo Williams…
August 12th, 2010 at 1:36 pm
Chise says:
Good read.
@control (post 16)
Even better read.
August 12th, 2010 at 2:14 pm
karizmatic says:
@ Control
Pardon my tone…it’s not necessarily a bad thing…if that’s what he wants to do that’s what he wants to do…also we’re all speculating…LBJ could end up proving me wrong. I just think those are the reasons why people are saying it’s Wade’s team and not Lebron’s. Lebron is more likely to be the facilitator and Wade is more likely going to be the closer.
August 12th, 2010 at 2:22 pm
LakeShow84 says:
I wish i couldve been on his twitter when he said that “dont think i aint noticing” shit..
my response??
Womp womp womp
And yes he is no MJ.. he isnt no Kobe and he isnt no Bird.. he may be better than 2 or maybe even 3 of them when its all said and done but aye who knows?? BUT no one has ever bowed out of the pressure like that bottom line..
and the article speaks about the killer instinct that wouldve kept those certain legends/players from doin something like that so i can feel it..
ive never seen a player look as shaky as Lebron does when its all on the line.. you can see it on his face..
August 12th, 2010 at 2:51 pm
K says:
of all the dumb things said after Lebron to miami went down. the dumbest was that Lebron is gonna be Wades side kick.. how you gonna be a side kick when your the better player.
Since when did wade become better than LeBron?????
August 12th, 2010 at 2:54 pm
Celts Fan says:
@Lakeshow – forget his face. Remember the Easter (I think) game against hte Celtics? We’re up the whole game. They come roaring back, w/ 10 seconds left and us up 2, they got the ball on the break, he stops on a dime and lets got of an AWFUL 3 pointer that misses. He’s not a closer man. Other than that one shot against the Magic last year he’s only made layups later on. Ya, he’ll get those, but he’s not a “dagger jumper w/ a hand in your face, down 1, 2 seconds left in the game” kinda guy
August 12th, 2010 at 2:55 pm
Ian says:
mike
thank you man thats same shit ive been saying for a while.
jordan and magic are full of shit. of course they wouldnt call each other they had 2 or 3 super teammates and solid role players hell magic was the sidekick the first half of the 80s.
and that killer instinct bullshit stat you guys made up is a joke everytime a player wins a chip all of the sudden he has that killer instinct??? well i guess it is selective because what happens all those other seasons that player doesnt win?? its a joke people. no way in hell wade is better than lebron he just had a better team in 06 and lucked out with the refs.
about lebron and all the crap we are givin him hell i dont know my fav player ever is the admiral and i cant be that pissed if one year he decided to punch del negro and bolt the spurs (assuming they hadnt lucked out on duncan) because they wasted his first 7 years with crap around him he still gave the spurs 7 years and they didnt give him anything back. same thing with lebron. then again this is coming from a non us fan that doesnt feel the impact said player has on the city.
August 12th, 2010 at 3:06 pm
Stunnaboy09 says:
LeBron ain’t MJ. LeBron ain’t bird. I’ve always said LeBron was Magic. maybe 1946 Magic, the one that was shaky in the clutch and not yet ready for the spotlight. Peopel called him tragic and after a summer of the unrelenting hate he came back better and with that Killer instinct. Maybe it happens to LeBron, maybe it doesn’t.
I think more people liken Wade to Jordan and Bron to Pippen based on playing styles. Wade is an explosive shooting guard while bron is a more do-everything SF. The closest thing to Kordan/Pippen if I have ever seen one.
And to all the Heat haters, they ain’t winning 50 games. LeBron tooka bunch of scrubs to 60 in Cleveland, he can do the same in Miami with Wade and Bosh.
August 12th, 2010 at 3:08 pm
karizmatic says:
@ Stunna
Thanks for pointing out to some of the people here that Magic wasn’t always thought of as having killer instinct.
August 12th, 2010 at 3:25 pm
Celts Fan says:
@Karizmatic – Magic def had his blunders (I think it was the 86 Finals against Boston that he played like garbage for him) but at the same time, dude put up that starting-at-center-to-win-a-chip-in-the-biggest-game-of-your-life as a 20 year old game, so you couldn’t say he was not clutch, jsut that he may not be the most clutch. I hear ya though.
August 12th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
Crew Dizzy says:
@ celts fan
I recall Bron hitting the game winning jumper against golden state as time expired 2 years ago.
August 12th, 2010 at 3:34 pm
karizmatic says:
@ Celts fan
This is an interesting role reversal…a celtic fan defending the merits of performance of a laker against a laker fan? lol.
Nah I actually agree…Magic is my favorite player…but I know back then even after that starting center game…people were still saying “well that was one game and he didn’t hit any game winning shots” and then 86 happened and people were like “well maybe he’s not that good in the clutch”…it wasn’t until he came back and hit the clutch shot that it really cemented Magic as one of the clutch guys.
Obviously it’s all relative, the reason people were saying that was because they were comparing him to Larry Bird who had knocked down clutch shot after clutch shot, and “nail in the coffin” shots…and just straight up “we’re beating you by 11 or 13 and I’m going to hit this 3 right in your face right in front of your bench F you” shots.
August 12th, 2010 at 3:38 pm
LakeShow84 says:
I dont understand how people you can say MJ was full of shit.. MJ was so nasty back then and would PULL UR STILL BEATING HEART out of ur chest if given the chance..
Magic, maybe, but Magic even with the bullshit was a winner on the biggest of stages.. yeah he had Kareem but he didnt for that game 7.. Could nah nah WOULD Lebron play C if needed to win a chip??
Nah becuase i think he wouldnt want to LOOK out of place.. and thats wack..
Magic CONTSTANTLY delivered.. Yeah he had a stacked squad (kinda neccessary goin against Boston tho right?) but he played to their strengths like a true champ does.. Can Lebron do that?? i dont know.. like i said he dominates the ball SO MUCCCCHHHHH can he really meld his talents, drop his #’s for the good of the team?? Magic did..
And given Magic and MJ NEVER switched teams in they PRIMES.. PRIMES peoples they PRIMES we need to stop saying they full of shit.. Everyone act like Lebron left the Clippers.. GTFOH..
Jordan, Magic and Barkeley most likely lookin at what he had in Cleveland and sayin he shouldnt have done that.. if he was on the Wolves i doubt they would say shit..
Just sayin..
August 12th, 2010 at 3:39 pm
LakeShow84 says:
@ Crew Dizzy
Yeah that was his FIRST buzzer beater jumper in 7 years of playing time.. Great point..
August 12th, 2010 at 3:50 pm
Ian says:
guys maybe im off but wasnt the 86 finals rockets vs celts.
magic was lucky he didnt make the finals that season cuz bird was going to destroy the lakers. 86 celts best team of the 80s imo.
August 12th, 2010 at 3:53 pm
Crew Dizzy says:
@ Lakeshow
He’s hit shots several times that clinched victories though. Big shots don’t have to be buzzer beaters.
August 12th, 2010 at 3:56 pm
Celts Fan says:
@Ian – you right, meant ’84.
also, the 86 Celtics were probably the 2nd best team of the 80s (and ever.) the Showtime Lakers, IMO, were the best team ever.
August 12th, 2010 at 3:58 pm
Ian says:
lakeshow
im the one sayin it and yes hes full of shit with that comment.
hou have the ball to compare jordans team, birds team and magics team to brons team???goh no wait gtfoh.
you think if kobe and bron switched places cleveland wins. you know what he doesnt get anywhere near 60 wins and bron has a crack at 70.
you say im acting like bron left the clippers??? pleaseeeee bron with the clippers are better than bron with cleveland. at least he has a real allstar in kaman and a bunch of nice wings. he didnt leave the clipps he left a worst team watch them win 20 this season and see how much bron is worth.
i think i really need to explain all this crap again but here it goes jordan magic and bird together might not be as good as each player had it on their own. fuck magic wasnt the best laker it was kareem he had big game as the third best player and talk about the rest of the team and that coach. bird had also two top 50 players with even fuckin walton on the bench a former finals mvp as his pg for fucks sake. jordan had pippen imo the 4th best player of the 90s the best shooter the best rebounder the best coach of the 90s the best sixth man and a league that saw the bird and magic retire and the bad boys get old. jordan didnt beat them he was just younger than them and won when the three teams i mentioned were on the downhill.
yes jordan is full of shit with that stupid comment. jordan wouldnt last 2 seasons in cleveland and everyone knows it he might be the goat but he needs to shut the fuck up on this one. let the dudes that had to carry crap do the talking.
August 12th, 2010 at 4:01 pm
Ian says:
well hehehe celts fan the baby hook was 87
and which laker team beats the celts??? that 86 squad was loaded sorry super loaded.
i wouldnt call them the greatest team ever cuz the rules change i can only pick for the decade.
August 12th, 2010 at 4:01 pm
LakeShow84 says:
@ Crew Dizzy
Hes hit big layups.. just sayin
August 12th, 2010 at 4:02 pm
K Dizzle says:
As a Laker fan, even I gotta admit the stupidest shit I read today is
” I love Wade, but his game his rookie year is exactly the same as his game now.” WTF?
and the other was the clown blamin Cleveland for bein Cleveland instead of LA, Boston, Chicago or Miami. Free agents don’t go to Cleveland, son. Lebron or no lebron. It’s not the franchise, it’s the city.
@ Ian
Why you so mad at Magic and Mike? Look at your own man, Timmy D. Stuck with only a waaaaaaaaaay past his prime Dave Robinson and no Parker or Manu for at least 2 seasons and he didn’t taken 100 mil to bounce to Orlando with TMac and Grant Hill which nobody woulda blamed him for. He stuck it out in San Antonio with a team that doesn’t sniff 15 wins without him in a city where free agents never came before Tim started to bubble. Just cuz he’s not on twitter sayin that, don’t mean he don’t feel the same way.
Jordan did even less with the Bulls than lebron did with Cleveland in both their first 6 years. Scottie Pippen before ’91 was Mo Williams in terms of showin up in the playoffs. Jordan’s 7th year brought the dominance. Lebron’s 7th year was gonna be a full season with Jamison, and a huge upgrade of Byron Scott over Mike Brown. Whether the legends right or not, they got one thing right: It better to beat the best, than to join the best.
August 12th, 2010 at 4:09 pm
Ian says:
dizzle
im not sayin that bron did the right thing im sayin its understandable what he did. the timmy example i said i agreed was a good one but comon how often do you see an nba superstar with that kind of attitude??
bron shoulda stayed in cleveland sure but bashing from those 2 legens specially magic isnt right here.
August 12th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
karizmatic says:
Yeah sorry 84.
August 12th, 2010 at 4:11 pm
Ian says:
besided an in his prime timmy is way better in the playoffs than bron
hehe so he knew he could carry scrubs to more rings
August 12th, 2010 at 4:11 pm
karizmatic says:
Best team ever was the 96 Bulls I don’t care what anyone says. Any decade any rules I’m pickng that squad.
August 12th, 2010 at 4:14 pm
LakeShow84 says:
@ Ian
Yeah and i think your off bruh because you cant say “They full of shit ebcause they wouldve left too” which BULLSHIT because they DIDNT.. maybe they wouldve pulled a Barkeley LATER in they careers and left but given the old school style best believe they wouldve wasted they blood sweat and tears during they PRIMES trying to prove themselves..
BET
Jordan didnt win his first ring until his 30′s right?? what happened before that?? shit shellackin after shellackin by Detroit bball.. and it wasnt even a DRASTICALLY changed roster that got him past them.. it was him getting HIMSELF and LEADING his team to the promised land..
Like i said you MIGHT be able to get on Magic but sayin MJ needs to shut up because “his team was loaded” is bullshit because he stuck it out into his 30′s.. and in anycase his first chip he didnt have much besides Pip.. What Cartwright and Grant were BEASTS?? nah not really.. if anything the Bulls coppin Cartwright was the equivalent of CLE signing Shaq.. and im being generous..
so you GTFOH lol
August 12th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
LakeShow84 says:
Ok and maybe PJax helped him a little too lol what was that Phil’s first or second year?? i dunno..
August 12th, 2010 at 4:20 pm
Celts Fan says:
@Karizmatic – I loved that squad, but the 80′s Celtics and Lakers were better. There was a smaller talent pool in the league at the time and they were, head and shoulders, the 2 best of that era. They were deeper than the Bulls and just as good w/ front-end guys (2 top 5 ever guys in Magic and Kareem and the Celts had Bird, McHale, Parrish, DJ, 6th-Man-of-the-Year Bill Walton) The Bulls would give ‘em a solid series, but they’d def lose.
August 12th, 2010 at 4:22 pm
Celts Fan says:
@Lakeshow – I think MJ was like 28 when they won their first chip, 7 years in. He was also in a city that could attract guys. I feel like Bron woulda stayed if Bosh had approved that sign-and-trade. Oh well, whatever…
August 12th, 2010 at 4:33 pm
Ian says:
yeah lakeshow thats another point i left out he was in chicago not cleveland. if bron had pip in any form he woulda stayed so the rest of the team doesnt even matter.
August 12th, 2010 at 4:34 pm
K Dizzle says:
@ Lakeshow – solid points
Mike Brown = Doug Collins
Byron Scott = Phil Jax
Lebron = Mike
Jamison = Pip
Varejao = Horace
Shaq = Cartwright
Mo = Paxson
If Lebron wanna blame anybody, he needs to blame his management. Cleveland was stuck in no man’s land winning “only” 120+ wins in 2 mvp seasons. Cleveland was the Vegas favorite 2 seasons in a row, but they get crushed by Orl then Bos, then Bron fans wanna say the team “sucked”. The team did not suck. The NBA is ALL ABOUT MATCHUPS. Cleveland was built to beat LA, but first they had to beat Orl. Bad matchups. Long shooters, Hedo playin like Magic, Dwight. Orl 4 – Cle 1. Next season, they pick up Shaq to get by Dwight and Bynum/Gasol….Oops, matchup with Boston. Nobody to stop Rondo. Lebron on Pierce, Ray goes off. KG murkin whoever on him. Sheed pullin Shaq out of the paint. Perkins doin a great job on Shaq cuz he don’t gotta score, just use up all his energy to d up….and of course, the elbow sprain…with the left handed freethrow?!?
Shit, Dwade shut it down for a season and they got the 2nd pick(which they whiffed on) then they filled the roster with expiring contracts to get under the cap and stack the deck. Cleveland needed that Amare deal to go thru cuz they got nuthin in the drafts and free agents apparently didn’t care if Lebron playedthere or not, which might tell us more about him than the team. Guys wanna play with Kobe, Timmy, CP3, DWill, KG, Durant, Roy.The list goes on. Nobody ever says they wanna play with Lebron…
August 12th, 2010 at 4:36 pm
Ian says:
lakeshow btw how about u get up go into a mall pick up the ps3 and sf sorry super sf and give me your psn id so my gief can destroy your gat or ken today.
August 12th, 2010 at 4:37 pm
karizmatic says:
@ Celts fan
I’ve heard that argument many times before I just don’t agree.
96 Bulls to me beat anyone…really it just comes down to I don’t see their big three with Jordan still nice like that losing in 7 games to anyone.
the 69-13 Lakers squad is my number two
and that 86 Celtics squad is my number three.
August 12th, 2010 at 4:39 pm
Ian says:
dizzle i stopped readin at the jamison=pip part. sorry not even close and forget those vegas odds those numbers were all about lebron but you know what the bulls without jordan won 55 games and were one game away from the ecf how is that for a super stacked team now lets wait and see how cleveland does i bet they dont get 25 wins.
August 12th, 2010 at 5:00 pm
K Dizzle says:
@ Ian
lol. Sorry, just comparin the rosters. Pip and Mo is a better comparison. People forget Scottie in ’91 wasn’t Scottie after 3 rings and Mike’s “retirement”. In ’91, Scottie was a 1 time allstar who disappeared during the postseason whenever Dennis Rodman even looked at him (**migraine**). Exact same position as Mo. I don’t remember which game he had 20 points in like a half, but the potential was always there that if Mo Williams got hot, it was over. Well, Scottie came of age the next season and 6 rings later, he’s in the discussion of one of the greatest all-around players of all time. Unfortunately for Mo, he ain’t gettin rings without Lebron(as a Lakerhead, I’llsay even with him), but I’ll see that bet for 25 wins cuz much like the Bulls without Jordan, the Cavs top players will step up their games knowin they don’t have Lebron to lean on. Mo, Jamison, Parker, Hickson. I see them gettin more than 25 wins.
August 12th, 2010 at 5:06 pm
Ian says:
na dizzle ill go they get less than half the wins they had last season. wanna make a friendly bet hehehe?
August 12th, 2010 at 5:07 pm
loose change says:
For the record, Magic had a killer instinct too. He truly did. Don’t fool yourselves simply because Jordan had a furled brown and sassy bald head compared to Magic’s perma smile.
He wanted to win as badly as anything. He just did it a different way than Jordan. Jordan opted to have an offense created around him that bored the f out of the NBA for a while, before he could impose his will.
Meanwhile, Magic imposed his will from the moment he stepped into the league. That’s the measure of killer…imposing your will. And that’s the truth, Ruth.
August 12th, 2010 at 5:09 pm
Ian says:
pippen was one of the two reasons they beat the lakers 4-1 remember who guarded magic in the 4 wins pip who guarded magic in the one loss jordan. im not taking anything away from jordan but damn if pip isnt one of the 3 most underrated players ever. mo is half the player pippen was.
August 12th, 2010 at 5:15 pm
K Dizzle says:
I see 30-35 wins and absolutely Scottie is 10X the player Mo is, but we’re basing that on his full career. If Mike had left after the last whoopin Detroit gave them in ’90 to go play with Ewing and Barkley in New York let’s say, Scottie Pippen doesn’t become “Scottie Pippen”
August 12th, 2010 at 5:22 pm
Ian says:
dizzle comon you are only saying that if he leaves it only affects scottie maybe jordan never wins without him. remember he also has zero rings without scottie. besides ewings was the other way around hes one of the top 3 most overrated player ever. thats the jordan thing why play with ewing and charles when he played with rodman and pippen.
see you have them on 30 wins also so with just one player missing they go from the best record to the lottery whenever that shit happens you know they have no team around bron to win in cleveland. when mj left the hit 55 thats a championship team with one piece missing. the admiral injury in 96 proved the same shit i was sayin back in the day that the spurs didnt give him a team to win with they went from alsmost 60 wins to 20 how much more can one man do??
ps again whoever played with ewing wasnt winning shit unless patrick was coming of the bench for shaq robinson or olajuwon.
August 12th, 2010 at 5:25 pm
LakeShow84 says:
@ Ian
No problem my man.. you gonna wire me the money through pay pal or what?? lol in due time my man and plz believe u’ll be the first to get flash kicked into oblivion haha..
And you cant judge CLE this because they’ll be without Shaq and West.. oh and even Big Z..
And to everyone saying CHICAGO attracted people CHICAGO didnt attract JACKSHIT before MJ.. lol for reals tho.. JORDAN made CHICAGO pop off.. and he still needed to get that chip to get it started..
@ CeltsFan
Good shit he was 28.. still tho lol
August 12th, 2010 at 5:27 pm
Ian says:
haaaa your weak guile while get 360d like the bitch he is. you shoulda gotten into our fantasy league this year (baseball) first place gets a ps3 hehehehehe.
August 12th, 2010 at 5:29 pm
kudos says:
“a Lebron James team never panics..” – Lebron James quote right before they got run over outta the finals 4-0.
You guys really think he’s taking notes and checking it twice?? He just say’s whatever he wants to seem competitive to the lbj-jocker’s that still love him. It’s a brand, man. It’s too bad the heat won’t even make it outta the East. For once lebron and Bosh will be exposed for their no-defense playing bodies that they really are. -
August 12th, 2010 at 5:30 pm
K Dizzle says:
@ Ian
I wasn’t comparing MJ to Lebron, or what Jordan woulda done without Scottie. I was sayin if Jordan had left before they ever won those rings, Scottie wouldn’t have become the same player that he became. Scottie Pippen 1990 = Mo Williams 2009
and Shaq and Delonte left too,not just Lebron. If Shaq and Delonte returned, Cleveland is a 40 win team.
And I don’t consider Ewing overrated, I consider Reggie Miller so clutch that he stole a series and I consider John Starks so stubborn(2-18) that he no doubt cost then that championship. Ewing did blow that one fingerroll that he shoulda just dunked, but his teammates and opponents are just as important in him havin no rings
August 12th, 2010 at 5:38 pm
Ian says:
dizzle
remember the finals vs houston?? everyone says the admiral got destroyed in the conference finals and he avg 24 and 10 playin three on one. ewing in the finals avg 18 ppg on 33percent shooting that is getting destroyed. cant blame starks for one game because with out him they dont win the other 3 blame ewing for sucking all the time. the man made the finals barelyyyyyy the year jordan left.
we should stop the pippen jordan mo bron talk because we will be here all day talking bs
you did nail it i remember ewing for three things only
missed finger roll
his team making the finals when he got injured
and number one
when pippen raped him
i say hes overrated because some people think he was as good as the robinson shaq dream trifecta and he wasnt. theres a facebook link that has all the matchups 4 those players had and the other 3 usually cancel each other out while ewing got destroyed by them by alot.
August 12th, 2010 at 5:56 pm
Ian says:
lol what a coincidence just read this
“ewing and his low basketball IQ and tendency to choke”
August 12th, 2010 at 6:05 pm
K Dizzle says:
My alltime top centers
Kareem
Russell
Chamberlain
Shaq
Hakeem
Robinson
Walton
Malone
Ewing
Mikan
Pat’s top 10 all time, I’ll give him that
Just to throw some gas on the fire
Mo in 08-09 81 games, 35 mins 47%fg 44%3fg 91%ft 17.8ppg, 3.4rpg, 4.1as
Scottie in 90(year before chip)
82 games, 38 mins 49%fg 25%3fg 68%ft
16.5ppg 6.7rpg, 5.4as
Of course, I’m not high so I understand that Scottie’s all around game plus his almost 3 steals and 1 block per game put him way over Mo, even tho Mo’s the way better shooter,but as we know, the talent pool is diluted now so Mo’s a good enough sidekick as a 2nd or 3rd option nowadays. No telling how good they would have been this season with Byron Scott running things…
August 12th, 2010 at 6:09 pm
ctkennedy says:
hittin shots at the buzzer isnt the only thing that makes u clutch
August 12th, 2010 at 6:50 pm
LakeShow84 says:
^^no but if you a one trick pony you wont win a chip^^
August 12th, 2010 at 6:56 pm
Ian says:
dizzle
there is an article on foxsports about pippen not just a sidekick hehe
btw i dont think mo can be the second best player on a champ.
my top ten i have ewing on the list but just barely at 10 and hes arguable i have shaq and russell outta my top 5. i think russell is ben wallace in the 60s dont like him that much.
August 12th, 2010 at 7:08 pm
LakeShow84 says:
ooooooooo Ebanks has been signed..
August 12th, 2010 at 8:28 pm
UncheckedAggression says:
Dizzle–I just can’t believe you’re trying to compare modern Mo Will to young Pip. You’re just wrong. Offensively that’s fairly accurate. But Mo Williams was exploited in every playoff game he has ever played because he can’t guard anyone. So if Mo was playing bad offensively, it compounded the negative effects of having him on the court. Pip always played great D.
C’mon, I’m really tired of all this “Cavs are a decent team withou Lebron” BS. There is simply no evidence and you guys just won’t shut up about it.
August 13th, 2010 at 3:21 am
K Dizzle says:
lol try to relax, bruh. We’re just talkin smack on a slow hoops day. OBVIOUSLY, Mo can’t hold Pip’s jock. What I was gettin to was IF Mo actually showed up for a playoff series, we could say Lebron had some support. Nobody expected Mo and Jamison to just disappear like they did. Just like Scottie disappeared every year before the Bulls got over the Detroit hump…that’s all