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NBA / Sep 14, 2010 / 10:00 am

Who’s Better: Derrick Rose or Russell Westbrook?

Derrick Rose (photo. Chad Griffith)

Derrick Rose (photo. Chad Griffith)

We argue. You decide.

DERRICK ROSE (by Casey Mack)
As expected, Team USA brought home a gold medal from the World Championship in Turkey. Even though the NBA heavyweights were not on hand to participate in the tournament, the up-and-coming stars filled their shoes nicely.

One place in particular where the youngsters stepped up was at the point guard spot. Derrick Rose and Russell Westbrook set the bar so high at the position that NBA champion Rajon Rondo withdrew from competing for minutes against those two. Both surely did their thing over the summer, and now a big debate has developed. Who’s better: D-Rose or Westbrook?

It’s a no-brainer that Rose is the better of the two.

We can start off by just looking at their NBA numbers to show how Rose is more of a go-to player. Rose edges out Westbrook with a regular season career scoring average of 18.7 points per game, to Westbrook’s 15.7 ppg. In the playoffs, it’s the same story. Both seem to perform better when it matters most, but D-Rose plays just a level higher. Rose averages 22.7 points in the postseason, better than Westbrook’s 20.5 points during his one playoff series.

Rose is also the more accomplished player. He was a Parade All-American three times and made the McDonald’s All-American game in high school. In college, Rose won the NCAA Tournament South Region MVP and made the All-Final Four Team. Westbrook’s amateur resume is nowhere near as impressive. As for accolades in their pro careers, D-Rose is still the winner. Rose has the ’09 Rookie of the Year under his belt and an All-Star Game appearance, two things Westbrook cannot claim.

Running the lead guard spot takes some special skills. Rose has grown up in this spot and has played the role since high school. Westbrook is still learning the position. Point guard skills are crucial when it comes to wins and losses. Give the ball up too many times, and a loss is sure to follow. Westbrook has averaged 3.3 turnovers per game in his career. On the other hand, Rose only turns the ball over 2.6 times per game. When the game is on the line, who would you rather have with the ball in their hands?

Both of these guys have bright futures ahead of them. Both are the premier point guards of tomorrow, but when it’s all said and done, Rose will be remembered as the better of the two. He plays a bigger role for his team and contributes more statistically than Westbrook. Russell Westbrook is learning the position well, and rather quickly, but D-Rose is ready and able to be the best at the position.

Russell Westbrook (photo. Jeff Forney)

Russell Westbrook (photo. Jeff Forney)

RUSSELL WESTBROOK (by Andrew Macaluso)
When it comes to playing in somebody’s shadow, no one does it better than Russell Westbrook.

After a sophomore season of posting 16.1 points, 4.9 rebounds and 8.0 assists per game, Westbrook won over near-sighted critics with the League’s eighth-best assist total (seventh among point guards). He quarterbacked a 50-win team and he keeps making plays that approach astonishing. He was also OKC’s best weapon against the Lakers in the playoffs, slashing inside for bucket after bucket and giving the defending champions a scare in the first round.

There’s another point guard who also makes astonishing plays in his own right and was drafted three spots ahead of Westbrook in ’08 that you could make a comparison with — Derrick Rose.

Although I’d love to have both of these cats running my team, unfortunately there can only be one top dog. They are similar in size (both 6-foot-3, Rose weights 190 pounds to Westbrook’s 187) and both rely heavily on their athleticism to make plays. But I’m a big believer in defense, so this choice wasn’t hard for me to make. Westbrook has a 6-7 wingspan to go along with a 36-inch vertical, which automatically gives him the edge in the defense category. Russell owns Rose in steals (1.3 spg last season to Rose’s 0.7 spg) and rebounds (4.9 rpg to 3.8), and in the World Championship constantly changed the game for Team USA by creating havoc on defense while Rose sunk into the background.

Westbrook is also undoubtedly the better leader between the two and willing to distribute the extra pass to his teammates, handing out 8.0 assists per game last year to Rose’s 6.8 per game.

In a highly-anticipated Thunder/Bulls matchup last season — which OKC won, 98-85 — Westbrook got the better of Rose after scoring 29 points (13-24 FG), grabbing 7 rebounds, and dishing out 6 assists. Rose finished with 19 points, 3 boards and 7 assists. Westbrook also earned a Western Conference Player of the Week honor during the month of February, averaging nearly a triple-double over three games (19.7 ppg, 9.7 apg, 8.0 rpg). How about the game against Golden State, where Westbrook had 21 points, 7 rebounds, 10 assists and 8 steals? Let me know when Rose decides to throw down stats like that. The crazy thing is, Westbrook still isn’t fully comfortable at the point guard position — with his 3.3 turnovers a game — which shows he can get a little out of control at times but he’s only going to get better and the possibility adding a couple more triple-doubles to his belt isn’t that far off.

Westbrook and Rose are both playing the big-league point guard at the age of 21. Point guards have to make split-second decisions every game, on the move, and they can flounder, which Westbrook did during his rookie season after playing shooting guard at UCLA. But Westbrook has flourished since then. His decision-making gets better by the week, his production keeps rising, and his flaws are fading fast. That’s what happens with 21-year-old point guards.

Rose wins in the offensive category no doubt, but with Westbrook’s size, speed and strength — along with his ability to lead a team and never take a night off on the defensive side of the ball — he gets the nod as the better all-around point guard here in my book. The facts say it all; defense wins championships.

Who do you think is better?

-Follow Casey on Twitter at @MrMack3142
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  • Cha-Ching

    Going with Westbrook. I have watched D Rose let a man go by like a Bears offensive tackle.

  • @sofakingcool

    Rose is asked to do more and does.

    Westbrook gets to be second fiddle (to a top 5 player) and shines in that role.

    This may not be comparing apples and oranges, but more like granny smith and golden delicious.

    With the addition of Boozer, Rose will look to do less scoring and improve in other areas, this should allow for a more accurate comparison after this coming season.

  • the truth

    hey macaluso,

    i think you forgot to mention that the only reason westbrook’s scoring is less than rose’s is that because hes playing with durant who averages 30 ppg.

    Rose is chicago’s go-to scorer, it doesn’t necessarily mean hes a better offensive player than westbrook.

    I think assists count as offense too.

    westbrook wins this match-up hands down

  • Promoman

    It’s sort of bias to declare Westbrook better in the Worlds since Coach K did short Derrick minutes-wise, not to mention some of the other guys. Every player needs minutes & shots to show what they can do.

  • mytiman

    I’m the biggest Derrick Rose fan. I own a lot of his shoes and jerseys.

    But the FIBA Worlds did show us that Russel Westbrook is better, AS OF RIGHT NOW.
    Derrick was asked to lead a team full of stars but struggled to find his groove (FG% down, TO up, AST down). Russel Westbrook was like the energy bunny of this team.

    But let’s give DRose a chance to redeem himself in the coming season.

  • doggjkl

    Derrick Rose hands down and its not even close westbrooks game is more tailor made for fiba but nba wise rose owns him hes the go to scorer and the only reason westbrook averages so many points is because Durant sucks the defense and westbrook gets open looks. ROSE ALL DAY!!!

  • jysn

    westbrook is the better of the 2! rose is another version of steve francis… not really a pg but doesnt have a jumper 2 b a sg… westbrook gets the assist and as AM pointed out he still learning the position.. remember he was the 2 in college and has only been playing point 4 basically 2 years and already in the discussion of top pg’s

  • Crew Dizzy

    If I had a choice between the two I’m taking Rose, I think he’s the better player now and will have the better career. As the article mentions both are great athletes but I think D Rose’s jumper and he’ll improve his defense under Tibedeau. D Rose is a player you can build your franchise around, whereas in my opinion I don’t think Westbrook is that kind of player. You can look at Westbrook’s stats and say they would be better if he didn’t play with KD, but you would be overlooking how the defensive attention KD draws has helped guys like Westbrook get easier looks. On the other hand the Bulls go as far as Rose takes them, every team they play is trying to stop him, and he’s had 2 pretty solid seasons and post seasons. Both are going to be something to be dealt with, but Rose is better.

  • BRUCE

    I’ll take Rose due to the fact Rose is a natural PG while Westbrook is a coveted PG.

    Between the two, Rose is icy cold at the free throw line.

  • Brown

    Westbrook is a problem on both ends of the court. He’s one of my favorite players, so I may be a little biased. I think Rose is a great player, but I like Westbrook’s intangibles and how he impacts the game in more areas (steals, assists, rebounding, defense, etc.).

  • QazQami

    “21 points, 7 rebounds, 10 assists and 8 steals”

    damn i remember dat ..

    smfh

  • STOKELY

    The one that got to carry Luol deng bitch ass.

  • Nba_source

    Im taking rose!! of course westbrook assist is so high, he’s passing to Durant who led the league in scoring!!

  • https://twitter.com/PoppiGEE POPPI GEE

    Argument for Westbrook is better.

    Was going to go with Westbrook anyway.

    That is no knock on D. Rose, cause the boi is legit. Just saying their offense and atheleticism nullify each other so you gotta find the area that would set them apart and that would be defense.

    I have seen Rose take more plays off than Westbrook.

  • Nick

    I really like both players but the FIBA tournmanent showed that Westbrook has bad decision making skills on the court. He forced alot of passes and he was driving wrecklessly to the hole and ended up making alot of Turnovers.

  • jace

    d-rose is better… but westbrook was more aggressive in international play.. sooo he looked slightly better to me over the last couple games.. prolly felt mroe comfortable out there with kd leading the way cuz thats how it was in okc… he knew where to pick his spots.

  • Heckler

    derrick rose is def more popular; by fans and media. and he might be the better point guard right now.

    but russell westbrook is the better BASKETBALL player right now. for me, I like ‘all-around’ players. players that can contribute in multiple ways. and Westbrooks clearly (to me) outshines Rose in regards to that.

    neither can shoot. they have the range, but they aint consistent. rose is better at breaking down and defense and getting into the lane. he is better at finishing at the rim. rose is better with dealing with contact.

    but thats it.

    westbrook has equal athleticism. but he is the better defender. he goes and gets rebounds. he averages more assists. and dont sell me on that he plays with the leading scorer type shit.

    cant go wrong either way. but i’ll take the better overall basketball player.

    PS
    how long before oj mayo wants in on this conversation? arent the Grizz going to move him into the point guard position this yr? he too small (6’4) to play 2 guard

  • Mike

    If Andy did any research he would have found that Rose has a bigger wingspan of 6’8″ and a better vertical 40″ than Westbrook when they were measured at the NBA pre draft camp. To say “Westbrook has a 6-7 wingspan to go along with a 36-inch vertical, which automatically gives him the edge in the defense category” is a dumb comment. Based on that logic Rose is clearly has the “Automatic” edge. Rose is the more complete player. Rose would have had 10 assists a game if he was playing with KD! Rose had no help on the Bulls last year and he still lead them to the playoffs. Rose is the number one option and had to work a lot harder than Westbrook who just gets to feed KD and drive the lane when KD clears out. When did Rose ever have a clear lane to the hoop last year. No one even mentioned how terrible Westbrook’s FG% is! It really hurts a team when the PG can’t shoot 42% from the field. Derrick shot just under 49%! This debate isn’t even close!

  • Nba_source

    im just sayin more assist will come from giving the ball to durant off a screen compared to luol deng.

  • ctkennedy

    ill take westbrook over rose for one reason …westbrook reminds me of kobe playin with shaq even though he the second option u cant tell him that he goin hard even if that mean durant wont get the ball sometimes….rose is like joe johnson all the skills in the world but he will never join the elites in the league watch he gon let boozer take his team…its bad enough noah is so important as a leader that u cant trade him for carmelo anthony

  • http://www.dimemag.com Andrew Macaluso

    @Nba_source

    You do know that Durant takes most of his shots with the ball already in his hands right? Not of an assist. All 8 of Westbrook’s assists are not going to only Durant.

  • Nba_source

    ok but at least 4 of those comes from feeding durant, i have nothin agaisnt westbrook i enjoyed watching him in college, but he has more reliable teammates compared to the bulls last year, this rose has more passing option, so after this season the comparison should be better. Rose did average 7 ast in the playoffs though.

  • JA

    @Bruce – is Rose really the better FT shooter? Westbrook shoots at a higher % and more frequently than Rose.

    Not sure I follow you.

  • Kudabeen

    In the NBA – Rose

    International – Westbrook

    Pick-up – Can I watch?

    I still say Coach K over-valued Rose over Rondo. Rondo is the better playmaker, which comes in handy for the Tyson Chandlers, Gay, Iguodala, and others who appeared gun shy to get their own shot with the physical play.

    I know people hate Rondo for his smug attitude on the court, but he is a legit play maker…Until people admit that Rubio isn’t that special the argument that Rondo’s game doesn’t fit won’t work. Rondo game was perfect for the international game, because the physical play wouldn’t have thrown him off in making plays…

    What was Rose’s value on Team USA?? Westbrook and Gordon exposed all the other chosen guards on the team…the two of them went in.

  • don

    @andrew why did you bring measurements into the arguement lol its completely irrelevant but rose has a 6’8 wingspan with a 40 inch vert…

  • http://www.dimemag.com Andrew Macaluso

    @heckler

    I’m with you, I don’t agree with that leading scorer nonsense either or with the whole “Rose doesn’t have anyone to pass too.” speech.

  • SLAM4LIFE

    my hustle, so russell! any1 seen rose at the wc?

  • jysn

    im still tryina figure out how rose is a “pure” pg?? when i think pure i think stve nash j kidd chris paul not derrick rose

  • Kingralf

    Lol, Casey macks arguments seem to favor westbrook. Drose has more experience etc, was the go-to guy on his Team etc and still westbrook is only in a few stats slightly behind him and shines in the others.
    Nixe Job showing Why westbrook will Be the netter Player, Casey

  • http://www.dimemag.com Andrew Macaluso

    @don

    We must of read different things.

  • Nba_source

    @jysn how come he isn’t a pure point guard?

  • Shot In Your Face

    This is a good debate and you can make arguments for both.

    Even though I watched Westbrook live at Pauly a handful of times, I haven’t watched him too much in the NBA, except when you tore Derek Fisher up.

    Who is a better jump shooter?

  • slick ric

    Yall putting way too much stock in the Fiba play, I mean tyson chandler played more minutes than Danny granger I guess he’s Better! I like Westbrook and it is close but Rose is better. I know yall making arguements but D rose killed Westbrook and OKC on their second matchup plus I believe Rose won PLAYER OF THE MONTH for either March or April.

  • droc

    Rose and it aint even close. they also didnt include last years game against OKC WHEN Rose torched westbrook so bad they put thabo on him. 9 games does not equal to an 82 game season im sorry. fans are fickle and only remember your last game, so they dont really understand how different teams defend Rose, who has far more responsibility than Westbrook. Westbrooks playoff numbers came against an over the hill defender in derrick fisher while Rose in his rookie season was putting up numbers against a so called great defender in Rondo. Tune in to the first game of the season for these two to prove who’s more valuable to their team. Westbrook plays with the leading scorer in the league so thats 3 to four automatic assists, what happens when he does’nt have that safety valve in Durant? Rose played with a coach that had no previous coaching experience at ANY LEVEL,they ran a Biddy basketball offense and every team focused on stopping Rose, yet the kid still put up numbers. Its a foolish debate and Im just waiting for the regular season to start.

  • jysn

    @nba_source what pure pg has a career assist ave of 5.8?

  • Nba_source

    @droc for some reason they say playing with the leading scorer on your team does mean anything..And they fail to mention chi vs okc second meeting where rose dominated them. again i have nothin against westbrook but people watch fiba play and put to much thought towards it.

  • slick ric

    Russell Westbrook is good but he also has great options in Kevin Durant and for me I will always respect Rose game because I watched him shoulder the load offensively when he had no post options nor three point shooters,so hell it was either rose or nothing but he did have deng who no one seems to want in a trade.

  • UncheckedAggression

    I just noticed this article and started laughing. Man, Chicagorilla is gonna get heated again.

    They are very different players, but I would definitely rather have Westbrook on my team right now. Westbrook is in a good position because he can be the second guy on his team. And no, I don’t think he’d be terribly successful as a no. 1 option but you can’t really say that Rose has been. That Bulls team had plenty of talent–they never overachieved due to Rose’s genius. And now they are even more stacked. We’ll see what happens this year.

    I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again–I’d rather have Tyreke Evans than Rose. I strongly feel that a team led by Evans is much better off than a team led by Rose.

  • slick ric

    @Jysn, Chauncey Billups?

  • jysn

    @slick ric how long did it take billups 2 develop?

    im not sayin rose isnt good i jus see him as a new skool steve francis.. not sayin thats not a good thing i jus wouldnt him running my team as my leader

  • Nba_source

    @jysn 5.8 is not that bad but to say he isn’t a pure point guard because of it is kind of off, unless u watch the bulls u wouldn’t understand. He was asked by the coaching staff to be more aggressive, early in the season he was lookin to pass the ball way more but his teammate just wasn’t using that opportunity to score.

  • droc

    @ctkennedy: they dont want to trade Noah for Anthony because if you want to win in the NBA you dont trade good defensive big men, especially 7 footers that rebound the ball like a madman for a player that has one elite skill in Melo. Noah has too many intangibles to just trade away. Melo’s thetruth but you have to weigh in chemistry and character, and Noah has both with the Bulls. And westbrook reminds you of Kobe? child please……

  • jysn

    yall acting like his teamates are/were scrubs he played with salmons deng gordon gibson is a nice player.. im not saying he has allstars on his team but he got guys who can score and if u put a pure pg on that team tell me they wouldnt b better.. im not knocking him jus sayin he not a pure pg

  • Nba_source

    @UncheckedAggression um the kings were led by Tyreke Evans, they were not better off than the bulls. I have nothing against Reke his is one of fav players to watch, but i dnt understand where ur hate for rose come from?

  • Andre

    WESTBROOK CLOWNZ!

  • Ian

    someone mentioned rose doesnt have anyone to pass it to?? well bron had even less and he avgd a high assist total.
    westbrook is better and i dont even think this argument is close.

    where is chicagorilla??

  • Nba_source

    @jysn again u would have to watch the bulls to see what was going on, He avg 6.3ast his rookie season with gordan and salmans but gordan was gone by his second season and if u watch salmans to start off the season he could not hit a shot to save his life. and rose actually avg 6.0 ast last season. not 5.8

  • Nba_source

    Bron did have players to pass to and he actually is a pure point guard, his bball iq is higher than rose, but rose is still improving.

  • ctkennedy

    @droc….not as far as game im talkin about mentality hes not gon just settle for number 2 like kobe the question is…is he dumb enuff to pull a marbury cuz he wants to be paid like durant..in his own way he just as important as durant u get maynor startin all the games they not as good…..melo one elite skill aint regular either ..noah matter like hell but his one weakness dont help them against lakers,heat,celtics,or magic he cant score ..we all know deng cant step his game up come playoff time as the third option

  • UncheckedAggression

    Nba source–Are you serious? Are you trying to compare Rose’s teammates to the guys that filled the roster for the Sacramento Kings last year?! Tyreke, AS A ROOKIE, has already shown himself to be a more complete player than Rose. That’s all I have to say about that.

    And as for hating Rose… Whatever man. I like Rose. I just don’t think he is that good of a basketball player. Great for highlights and poor decisions.

    People that are saying that Durant is the reason for Westbrook’s assists are just fooling themselves. Somebody do the research. How often does a player in the top 5 in assists also happen to play alongside the leader in scoring? You’d think they’d be strongly correlated, no? Well let’s find out (well I don’t have the time but hopefully someone else will)

  • JAY

    @Unchecked Aggression… “How often does a player in the top 5 in assists also happen to play alongside the leader in scoring?”
    I may be dead wrong (actually I’m totally guessing) but I think the last time that happened was Karl Malone and John Stockton. If I’m wrong, my point is, it doesn’t happen very often.

  • Nba_source

    @UncheckedAggression im not gonna argue with you, all we can do is wait for the season to start and revisit the topic next year. Watch basketball games this season not just highlights ok?

  • JAY

    Btw, Stockton/Malone are different than Westbrook/Durant. Malone didn’t handle the ball… almost never. Durant does.
    In other words, a lot of Stockton-to-malone passes led to Malone buckets. Durant, with the ball in his hands, would negate a Westbrook assist.

  • JAY

    @nba_source
    Awww man.. why give up?? Great discussion!!!!
    Lol

  • slick ric

    @uncheckedAgression, I like the TITLE because it says who’s better Tyreke evans, Derrrick rose or Rusell Westbrook? who said anything bout Evans?

  • droc

    whats Rose’s career winning percentage against these so-called great point guards? 3-1 against phoenix and he kills nash, 2-2 split with OKC, Thabo normally guards Rose when they play enough said. 4-0 against Chris Paul and the hornets. Went 7 games in his rookie year against the defending champions and went toe to toe with Rondo, who has two more years of experience in big games. Deron may be the only elite pg with a winning record against Rose with a 3-1 edge. the only reson I put up records is because in the end thats what a point guard is judged by. He’s won 2 state championships, was one play away from a national championship, and has made the playoffs and stepped his game up in two playoff series. Let the kid evolve and grow and eventually he’ll prove a lot of doubters wrong

  • jysn

    i was wondering y we are talking about evens 2 lol

  • Nba_source

    i never said all 8 of his ast came from durant, i said it help that he had someone like that. are we arguing who is the better player or the better pg? Westbrook had more ast, Rose had more points. So are we arguing who is the better talent?

  • ctkennedy

    @droc….not as far as game im talkin about mentality hes not gon just settle for number 2 like kobe the question is…is he dumb enuff to pull a marbury cuz he wants to be paid like durant..in his own way he just as important as durant u get maynor startin all the games they not as good…..melo one elite skill aint regular either ..noah matter like hell but his one weakness dont help them against lakers,heat,celtics,or magic he cant score ..we all know deng cant step his game up come playoff time as the third option

  • Rofo

    For those talking about Westbrook and his assists to Durant..

    Westbrook avg’d 3.9 assists per game at the rim last year. DRose only 1.9
    That put Westbrook in a class with the elite PG’s (Nash, Rondo, DWill, etc). Rondo ranked like 30th.

    That is the biggest stat for a PG. Durant is not a set shooter so you don’t get a lot of assists off of him. He holds the ball and creates his own shot. Russ avg 2 assists more per game passing to Kristic and Collison then Rose did to Noah and company down low.
    The largest section of assists for Rose came at 16-23 feet from the basket. Or basically passes my mother could make.
    DRose is a SG having to play point. He doesn’t break down D’s to pass, he does to shoot and has poor court vision. His D is lackluster at best (will be fun watching him and Boozer play the Matador D). He’s great at finishing around the rim.

    Anyways, as FIBA showed, if you already have a #1 scorer Westbrook is a better player right now. He does everything better then Rose except score. But if you need a #1 scoring option Rose is a better fit. The reason I would go with Russell is I’d never want my PG to be the #1 option. That’s too much ball dominance IMO for winning basketball. The PG should set up teammates and get them involved and look for his own only when it’s given to him or it’s needed. Russ understands that. Rose doesn’t.

  • droc

    Lets be real guys we’ve seen OKC games and Westbrook is not really orchestrating the offense . Scotty Brooks does a great job of creating of the ball screens for Durant to catch and shoot or just rise above his defender. anybody that thinks Durant is just taking people off the dribble on a consistent basis does not watch their team. The way their offense is run makes it easier for the point guard to collect assists

  • Rofo

    Droc, stop making crap up about Tabo guarding Rose. Westbrook was the primary defender against Rose and vice versa last year. That Tabo took him off a screen a few times doesn’t mean he was guarding him.

    Shoot, go back to the NCAA when Westbrook torched Rose in that game and then shut him down pretty good when he moved onto Rose once it was realized Collison couldn’t guard him.

  • Mike “Yahoo! Exclusive” Mihalow

    I haven’t really seen enough of them play to make an honest decision. Rose definitely gets more hype though.

  • Rofo

    Holy crap Droc stop posting. You”re obviously biased and just posting drivel. Westbrook doesn’t run the offense? He completely runs the offense. Durant isn’t Lebron or DWade. Durant does not get the ball and run the offense. Westbrook does 100% of the time. Durant won’t even carry the ball up court EVER unless Maynor is in the game. Westbrook sets up the offense every single time. Seriously, I’ve seen posters like you all over the internet. You have no clue what you’re talking about but post generic drivel as if you do. Hey, no one can refute your generalizations. No go argue when Westbrook has so many assists at the rim and Rose has jack and crap. Go argue why you can’t find me 10 times last year Russell wasn’t the one setting up the offense.

    Just unplug your modem already so the rest of us grown ups can talk opinions and not your made up generalizations.

  • UncheckedAggression

    I was trying to point out the flaw in thinking that playing alongside a great scorer automatically inflates your assist numbers. No one has provided any evidence of this at all. As others have pointed out, Durant creates for himself a lot. It’s not like he’s getting most of his points off catch-and-shoot situations.

    Nba source–Haha alright. I’m afraid you’re the one that needs to lay off the highlights. Many of the arguments for Westbrook center on the fact that he is a more complete player than Rose.

    To those of you bitching about my bringing up Evans… Really guys? I can’t believe how much you whine on here. I mentioned that I would prefer to have a team led by Evans simply to make a point. The point being, despite Rose’s crazy talent he is not the best choice for the cornerstone of a franchise. Maybe Tyreke isn’t either, but I’d still pick him over Rose. That’s my opinion. That’s fine if some of you don’t agree with me.

  • Knicksfan84

    I’ve never been wowed by Derrick Rose’s game but I’m not gonna deny him being the better overall/complete player over Westbrook.

    I DO think that Westbrook will surpass Rose though.

  • E

    interesting tidbit. Kevin durant was assisted on 53% of his jumpshots. compare that to other top scorers: wade-23%,lebron-24%,kobe-39%,carmelo-39%. Durant does most of his scoring via the jumpshot. So westbrook does assist Durant a great deal. With that said, if you put westbrook on that bulls team last season, i dont think they make the playoffs.

  • http://getyourishbusted.net Chicagorilla

    I feel like i’m being baited into this discussion but i’m going to let the reckless talk slide.

    According to 82games.com

    52% of Kevin Durants pts are assited. that’s 30ppg divided in half. 15ppg came off of assist. But I’m sure that doesn’t matter at all when were are talking about assit numbers.

    Just to help out on the Leading scorer argument.

    And since I’ve made my argument several times over the last couple days, I’m not about to repost that ish again.

    ROSE > Westbrook

  • http://www.dimemag.com Andrew Macaluso

    I’m not going to lie, this video had me jumping like Christmas morning.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIJTNG9_MHU

  • http://www.dimemag.com Andrew Macaluso

    @Chicagorilla

    But how many of those assists were from Westbrook alone?

  • Ian

    nba source
    did i say bron didnt have anyone i said he had less than rose. to make it easier the point is that the teammate excuse is crap.

  • ay yo..

    The only thing we can go off is recent playing, and that was FIBA. It was crystal, that Russ West is the better basketball player. He was able to play multiple roles, and was a big part of USA winning, than Rose was. Everyone’s saying how Durant’s presence is helping Westbrook rack up assists, what?

    I wish I could bring up the website I saw this stat, but Westbrook killed Rose in assists at the rim. When Rose gets in the paint, he’s not looking to pass..

    I still think the Bulls should of moved Rose over to the 2, like Miami did Wade.

    If anything Durant’s presence is speeding up Westbrook’s progression as a pg. Great scorers tell their pg’s where players would like the ball, and what they look for.

    I just think Westbrook is in a better place, with a elite scorer, and a coach who was a pg in his day.

  • http://getyourishbusted.net Chicagorilla

    @Unchecked

    so ummm, do you feel like the dyckhead that you have been made out to be? just wondering

  • http://getyourishbusted.net Chicagorilla

    @Andrew,

    Umm, have you watched their games. Well i have. Westbrook stands at the top of the key waiting for Durant to come off a screen. Hits him with the pass and just like magic he shoots! not really that hard to understand.

  • Heckler
  • johnsacrimoni

    It doesn’t matter who his teammates are,a great playmaker (Kidd, Nash, Williams, Paul) will get anybody buckets. Rose is a Steve Francis type player, I hope he doesn’t start crying and quit the league like Francis did if he ever gets injured and then benched.

  • https://twitter.com/PoppiGEE POPPI GEE

    Funny most people keep talking assist and offense.

    What about defense folks? I have already stated my case but apparently most cats just comparing them points and assist wise.

    Look at the total player.

  • doitall37

    Rose is a franchise player.Westbrook is not.Playoff averages this year 4 Rose 26.8 ppg 7 assists 5 rebounds.In addition the bulls have one of the worst shooting teams in the league.Who does rose have that can score consistently at the rim?he drives kicks out and then brick from his teammates.rose gets double and triple teamed nightly.westbrook doesn’t face nightly double teams nor does rhondo.

  • rell

    In the NBA Rose is better. Don’t let FIBA ball fool you. Navarro was a beast in FIBA but was only a average player in NBA. Scola was a beast in FIBA but is not a all-star player in NBA. There are many NBA players that look good in FIBA ball and many players that look average in FIBA ball.
    In the NBA, Rose is a franchise player and Westbrook is not. If Rose played with Durant I think OKC would be a better team and a title contender. With Westbrook, I think OKC is still missing something to win a title.

  • LakeShow84

    I’d take Rose and its not even that close to me..

    Westbrook it great and all but if he was the #1 focus of a defense he wouldnt have those lanes to slide into.. Rose makes it into those lanes WITH the defensive geared towards him..

    Defensively?? Shit id give a SLIGHT edge to Westbrook but both need to improve on that end as well..

    Id take Rose given hes a PROVEN franchise player who’s faced the other teams best efforts night in and night out.. Westbrook has nights where he isnt the 2nd best player on his team.. Green outshines him every now and then..

    Both are solid but gimme Derrick Rose ALL DAY..

  • LakeShow84

    Damn Rose has one bad showing at a summer league and everyone given dude shit..

    Its FIBA ball people lol

  • Nba_source

    @lakeshow dats what im tryin to understand, Rose played average in fiba and everyone is talkin down on him.

  • Sac

    MMMmhh.

    Mmmhhh. Interesting, though predictable discussion by Dime. You know you’re potentially goading a lot of people into this discussion guys. Lol.

    Nonetheless in all fairness, I’ll take Westbrook over Rose. Why?

    Though many of you are going to hate on Fiba (or me). I actually think Fiba fairly exposed Rose for his deficiencies Vs Westbrook and other point guards.

    Roses dilemma, is that he’s really a two guard in a point guards body that can’t shoot! Though Rose is also very fast up and down the court. But He’s not very quick laterally (for his half court offensive ball handling/2nd, 3rd move and playing defense).

    Russell Westbrook, because of his size and quickness, was able to be an effective Off Guard on Team USA due to his explosiveness and size, with out a jump shot. Why?

    Rose (who’s really not 6’3″) is too small, not as explosive from a stop/laterally as people think and can’t shoot well enough to play the off guard position effectively in any big time league.

    Rose is still a developing point guard. But He’s not there yet and may never be. But he’s got time to learn and get better at his position.

    Rose is more of the shoot first type of point guard. But he’s too small and lacks the half court ball handling skills/outside shot to do that in the NBA or Fiba, like I said. Those type of point guards never work out or lead their teams any where.

    Coach K (if he really made the decision and not Rondo) effectively pulled Rondo from starter (with out Rose playing well in any friendly games up until that point mind you) and off the team, because he felt Rose’s shooting would be better for the international game than Rondo’s play making skills. It was an exchange/hedge that Coach K lost (that bet)while winning the series.

    The problem was, Rose couldn’t shoot either (while lacking keen/natural play making, leadership skills like Rondo), and many people were screaming that before hand. This essentially made Rose worthless in FIBA play. Keep in mind. Fiba Point guards and off guards are not NBA guards (with a few exceptions) in size and quickness either.

    At this stage. Neither Rose or Westbrook are natural point guards really. Westbrook already leads in assist and Rose may average more in scoring. But that’s only because Westbrook plays with a 30 point scorer in Durant. You see what Durant did to Derrick Rose’s average on Team USA, right? Lol. Westbrook averaged 5 more points than Rose coming off the bench, mind you with Durant on Team USA.

    As it turned out, none of Team USA guards were effective shooters except Gordon, Chauncey to a degree and even less so, Curry. Play making, ball handling explosiveness/and or shooting were actually needed from Team USA’s point guards. This why I think Rose was exposed.

    I’ll take Westbrook. Because I think he’s a similar point guard to Rose in # 1 skills. But Westbrook’s size, quickness and aggressiveness makes him a better driver, rim attacker and defender! It’s obvious if Westbrook played on a different team, he would average similar or more points than Rose, while playing better defense with similar play making skills.

    There close. But I like Westbrook over Rose!

  • Sac

    PS: Draft Express confirms my suspicions. Derrick Rose is actually 6’1″, not 6’3″ as he’s listed. You guys saw that (and don’t tell me he’s 6’1/2″ to be exact)? Lol.

    And For those people arguing above: Rose’s standing Vertical (the true measurement) is 34.5″ and his running vertical is 40″ (not as impressive as a standing 40″, but nonetheless very impressive, while being higher than Westbrook 35″ running vertical).

    They both have similar wingspans, while West Brook is over an inch taller. Wesbrook also has a nice 2 in standing reach edge over Rose (8’4″ vs 8’2″).

    They both have similar up and down 3/4 court speed (3.05 vs 3.07), while Westbrook best Rose in lane agility by a robust full second (11.69 vs 10.69 sec). Yes! It’s a full second.

    So there you have it. Westbrook is almost two inches taller than Rose (maybe more if he was still growing), has a two inch standing reach edge.

    They both have similar up and down court speed. While Westbrook is much faster in Lane agility drills, which just confirms my lack of relative explosiveness argument for Rose. He’s not that quick for someone so fast (unlike a Westbrook or Rondo; who have both). I’m not hating or flaming. Just pointing something out and making a argument for those who can’t believe.

  • jysn

    my man ^^^^ wrote a whole nother article lol

  • http://yahoo.com Chicagodog23

    1. Anyone who saw a Bulls game last year can tell you that Rose as a tremendous mid range game. Statistically he shot a better percentage from there than not only Russell Westbrook, but also D-Wade and Lebron. The stats show that he is one of the better mid-range shooters in the league, and while he did struggle in a few FIBA games, lets not for get him clinching the game vs. Spain and hitting three 3’s against Angola.
    2. Athletically, Derrick Rose toasted Westbrook athletically. He is both faster and can jump a whopping 4 inches higher! Westbrook is bigger and has a tremendous wingspan (combine showed Rose was only 6’1.5). I don’t even know how to respond to someone who is bringing Roses quickness into question. Rose acceleration from 0 to holy crap is faster than anyone I’ve ever seen.
    3. Finishing, Russel Westbrook did score around 16ppg…on 42%. He is a terrible finisher around the basket and can’t even be compare do Rose (almost 50%). I’ve never seen an NBA player who consistently contorts his body like Rose to finish shots.
    4. Anyone who doubts that Rose’s supporting cast contributed to his low assist totals hasn’t watched a Bulls game. Our announcers Stacy King and Neil Funk share my frustration in a team completely unable to make a shot. We were one of the worst shooting teams in the NBA which was no fault of Rose. To say that Russell Westbrook’s assist totals aren’t aided by the league’s leading scorer and to attribute alot of Durants production to Westbrook is just stupid. Westbrook has Harden, Durant, and Kristic who has a great jump shot for a big man. Our big man? Joakim Noah (The man with the ugliest jumpshot in the nba, sorry shawn marion.
    5. Don’t you think a lot of westbrooks success came from having played with Durant in the past. Even so, Derrick did still lead the team in assists.
    6. If you gave 30 NBA executives the choice of Rose, a franchise point guard, or Westbrook, a fine second banana, 28 would choose Rose (I’m giving the two votes for Westbrook to Donald Sterling and David Kahn, NBA fans know why.) Everyone is support of russell have made valid points, however, when the season starts, I don’t think we’ll be comparing Rose to Westbrook, but Dwyane Wade.

  • http://yahoo.com Chicagodog23

    Sorry for some of the typos. I should have proofread…

  • http://yahoo.com Chicagodog23

    Sorry for some of the typos. I should have proofread…but my arguments remain valid.

  • ASH

    D-Rose.Rose do what the coach ask him to do,hes always in control and has alot of gears in his Arsenal.Rose have the ability to take over games and is Trustworthy in game situations .But Westbrook is good tho.but on the court Russell is a bit out of Control and too aggresive but i love his defense.The FiBA tournament is different than the NBA and both players were SOLID in the Tournament .You cant really judge by FiBA play.But Rose could of done more,he was too Passive.So we’ll see when the NBA season starts.

  • Sac

    I think those lane agility, lack of explosiveness (compared to his up and down floor speed ) numbers, provided from Draft Express, are going to catch up with Rose eventually.

    It reminds me of Patrick Ewing Vs Hakeem Olajuwon when they came into the league. Patrick was Fast running up and down the court. But what NBA General Managers, players and scouts found out easily was, Patrick Ewing wasn’t a great all around athlete. Why?

    Ewing lacked quickness, explosiveness and the ability to stop/start quickly and gather himself from a Leap or a lunge.

    Olajuwon excelled in these areas (amongst many others), which made him such a good one on one defender, shot blocker, offensive option and theft artist (with steals).

    Ewing on the other hand, wasn’t as great a defender (blocks or man to man), and was limited to a jump shooter, and got dunked on or beat too many times by tall, explosive forward and centers like Olajuwon, David Robinson, Shawn Kemp, Shaq, Otis Thorpe etc.

    I think this is one of the problems to Derrick Rose’s defensive deficiencies (while being 6’1″).

    Like Ewing, Rose is fast up and down the court, but he lacks in the aforementioned lateral quickness and explosiveness. He just does. This is irregardless of his end to end speed (like Rose). Remember, Basketball (especially close games and in the fourth quarter) are played mostly in the half court setting.

    I’m not sure if most Bulls/Rose fans will want to believe this, cause I find them so infatuated with his floor speed, that they think he’s the greatest athlete ever in the NBA or the position. But he’s not.

    He’s physically a very talented 6’1″ point guard, with great end to end speed, who lacks extreme length and lateral quickness/explosiveness (meaning he has to gather himself after reacting to a move or committing in a certain direction), which hurts him on offense and defense in the half court setting. He needs a running start or a couple of steps in the half court setting on offense to utilize his speed best.

    Defensively, this may eventually catch up with him in the NBA and with fans. I guarantee you, that’s one of the reasons why he plays such poor defense and was beat off the dribble by every offensive minded guard during the Fiba tournament at the top of the key initially (regardless if the penetrator was picked up by someone else or not).

    Can Bulls/Rose fans admit/agree to this? Lol.

  • Qrentis

    D. Rose…

    So y’all tellin me if the draft was today that a lot of y’all would take Westbrook??

    U have to bring KD in the discussion because with him bein on the same team as westbrook that has allowed westbrook to take the back seat.. and focus on other things on the court..

    Wit that being said D rose was thrown in that lead role position right away and has did better than expected.. wut else do y’all want from the man..

    Y’all wanna bring up the tourney.. which I can even say I’m pretty sure he was tryin not to get hurt, the bulls needs him so much.. its kinda like with the rookie and sophmore game a year a ago and the all star game this year.. u can tell when’s he’s holding back.. ( no excuses for the bad jumpshot in the tourney though)

    But y’all acting like the jump shot issue.. there is no issue?? He’s improved so much in that area over the past couple of seasons.. shot better than wade and lebron in the mid range game last year..

    And speakin of lebron.. he’s an mini version of lebron when it come to athletisism and strength..

    Look.. no where in here did I knock westbrook because I actually like his game.. but westbrook has the talent to be an 2nd option while D rose has the talent to be an 1st option..

    Ill take D rose with out even thinkin about it..

    So who would y’all really take??

  • http://yahoo.com Chicagodog23

    Having watched nearly every game he’s ever played, I feel like his quickness is tremendous. I also feel that he has a first step that is virtually unparalleled. However, even as a Bulls fan, I will make this concession, Russell Westbrook is a better defender. He’s been a lockdown defender since college, where Rose sometimes seems lost on that end of the floor. This being said I project Derrick’s stats next year to be around 24 ppg, 7.5 assists, and 3 rebounds with a steal and 50% shooting. Westbrook I see 18 ppg, 5 boards, and maybe 8.5 assists at best. Plus, he turns the ball over like a madman, and despite high assist totals, doesn’t have the kind of court vision Rose possesses. Roses numbers from last season are a little deceptive b/c his quickenss was limited by an early ankle injury. In March, he averaged 25, 7, and 4 on 54% shooting! The teams record is similarly deceptive because we lost Joakim for a long stretch toward the end of the year. Trust me on this, Rose will be better, especially w/ defensive Guru Tom Thibodeau holding the reigns and players like Carlos Boozer to pass to. It’s going to be an interesting year.

  • Slick Ric

    @Poppi Gee, thats all people taliking about when it comes to Fiba. Westbrook was more effective in fiba scoring the ball because i feel like he was agressive and rose was Deffering(correct spelling?)to Durant and billups alot but rose was good on defense.

  • Qrentis

    @ ball sac

    How are u gonna put rose measurements up of with him without shoes.. just a shame on your part..

    Rose is the best athlete at point guard possibly ever to play in the nba.. truth.. I don’t kno wut ur talkin about..

    Rose Is unguardable in the nba if u forgot somehow because of this tourney everyone is talkin bout..

    Rose can take over games.. he has that ablity…

    Everything rose has done in highschool, college and the nba these 2 seasons has not went blank in my mind because those feats were impressive and the thing that hurts your case ball sac and everyone else that wouldn’t take rose is hes only gettin better..

    Thank you

  • Qrentis

    @ ball sac

    How are u gonna put rose measurements up of with him without shoes.. just a shame on your part..

    Rose is the best athlete at point guard possibly ever to play in the nba.. truth.. I don’t kno wut ur talkin about..

    Rose Is unguardable in the nba if u forgot somehow because of this tourney everyone is talkin bout..

    Rose can take over games.. he has that ablity…

    Everything rose has done in highschool, college and the nba these 2 seasons has not went blank in my mind because those feats were impressive and the thing that hurts your case ball sac and everyone else that wouldn’t take rose is hes only gettin better..

    Thank you

  • ay yo..

    Are you kidding? Rose will not average a steal per game next yr, I’ll bet on that.

    I still don’t believe that Rose has more talent than Westbrook. If so, there’s no way you can say Rose has more potential than Westbrook.

    Rose did hit a lot of mid range jumpers, but a lot of them weren’t even contested.. and were rhythm jumpers.

    Like I said, give me Westbrook. He’s more fearless, and I think he’s a better leader. There were plenty of times he was talking to Durant and others about what he saw..

    Did someone actually say, Derrick Rose was trying not to get hurt? What? So he was holding back? That’s a new one for Chicago Bulls/Derrick Rose fans.

  • Slick Ric

    @ sac, I dont think lateral quickness has anything to do with it,now having great lateral quickness does’nt hurt,but Defense is about team, knowing angles and effort. kirk hinrach was a real good defender and I know his lateral quickness is worse than westbrook and rose.I anticipate rose being good at defensive end starting this upcoming year under the tutelage of his new defensive minded coach

  • Shakedan

    Westbrook without question. I like Rose but he’s not a complete point guard to me. Westbrook may be learning how to play the point but seems to understand the position well. Rose is lost in a half court setting. If he’s not pushing the ball on a break, in most cases he keeps the ball, he’s not exciting to watch. Westbrook on the other hand, is involved all the time. He runs the offense rebounds and plays D. I’ll take hom on my squad anyday.

  • Jason

    For anyone saying westbrooks higher assist totals make him the better passer, let me know when DRose has Kevin Durant to pass to. Rose is the bulls best player while Westbrook plays second fiddle in OKC. Westbrook is a very good player, but rose has been and always will be a notch above him

  • Justin

    Westbrook 8 assists where passes to Kevin Durant .Rose assists where to Luol Deng and Taj Gibson(Noah rebounded) . Westbrook is good but Rose started on team USA for a reason ,an allstar for a reason ,Rookie of the year for a reason,Number one pick in the draft 4 A REASON .Derrick Rose is the Point of the Future .

  • Qrentis

    @ ay yo

    Yea I stand by wut I said..
    With d rose I’m used to seein knee pads which means he’s goin to war..

    And If u think westbrook has more talent than rose your a fool to believe that..

    Westbrook is talented don’t get me wrong but label westbrook as an d wade type player that slashes… but d wade has proved to be a shot maker in this league and westbrook on the other hand has not….!

    I think its safe to say u know wut ur gonna get from. D rose this year..

    Prediction.. 24 4 8.. with bein the teams first option ” meaning the teams key into him every fuckin night! ”

    On the other hand with westbrook we know he’s gonna bring the defense and I love that.. but beside the asist he’s gonna rack up from playin with the BEST SCORER in the whole entire universe, his offense game is still a lil shaky.. can u even say u know wut were gonna get from westbrook this year??

  • HoopsFanMike

    Love Rose, but Westbrook outplayed him in FIBA’s.

    Can’t throw away all that Rose has done in the ‘association though, he still has shown he’s a beast in the making.

    Gotta say though, ask me that a year ago, hands down it’s Rose. But now? It’s a very tough question, Westbrook has improved that much…

  • Justin

    You cant mention Westbrooks name without saying someone else’s name Durant Durant Durant .Macaluso how do u mention one game and no the other they played against each other HOW DO YOU NOT DO THAT .Macaluso sounds like a name who hasn’t touched a basketball . Macaluso HOW DO YOU NOT MENTION DURANT AS A BIG PART OF HIS PRODUCTION . HOW DO YOU COMPARE A FRANCHISE NUMBER ONE PICK,ALLSTAR,ROOKIE OF THE YEAR TO A PLAYER WHO IS NUMBER TWO ON HIS TEAM . ONE MONTH AGO THE WHERE DEBATING TO CUT WESTBROOK FROM TEAM USA .NOW ITS…. MAN IS HE BETTER THAN D-ROSE .

  • Justin

    You cant mention Westbrooks name without saying someone else’s name Durant Durant Durant .Macaluso how do u mention one game and not the other they played against each other HOW DO YOU NOT DO THAT .Macaluso sounds like a name who hasn’t touched a basketball . Macaluso HOW DO YOU NOT MENTION DURANT AS A BIG PART OF HIS PRODUCTION . HOW DO YOU COMPARE A FRANCHISE NUMBER ONE PICK,ALLSTAR,ROOKIE OF THE YEAR TO A PLAYER WHO IS NUMBER TWO ON HIS TEAM . ONE MONTH AGO THEY WHERE DEBATING TO CUT WESTBROOK FROM TEAM USA .NOW ITS…. MAN IS HE BETTER THAN D-ROSE .

  • Jerkishbehavior.com

    I wasnt gon comment on this article but since I read all the comments, I might as well..(Chi Town standup)

    I take DRose any day of the week over westbrook because all he does is WIN from hs (won back 2 back state titles win a public league hadnt accomplish that in 20plus yrs), memphis one miracle 3 and 4 fts away from a title as freshmen, and led the lottery bound bulls to playoffs in back to back yrs as rook/soph (bulls were only 8th seed this yr cuz of injuries to rose/deng/noah). Drose is a leader and unquestioned franchise player and he has one of the most improved mid-range jumpers in the NBA. The only real knock on Rose Nba-wise is his 3pt shooting & Defense but ill let that slide considering he has only played 2yrs in the league and is already in the top 5 pg discussion.

    Far as westbrooks performance in FIBA (the sole basis of this article/argument), he played his role as defensive sparkplug off the bench to a tee but he was also hella out of control most of the time when he was in the game, he had reckless abandon good/bad. and westbrook played terrible during the friendlys & pool play but during the medal play he was most def the 2nd or 3rd best player who led us to GOLD. Far as Drose, he played well early on and god AWFUL the last 3games. But his pressure defense was great every game. Drose also wasnt aggressive on offense and didnt look comfortable or play his game. He just shot standstill 3s which isnt his game at all.

    Conclusion, one WC tournamey Westbrook > Rose….the other 21yrs and 11months, ROSE >>>>>>> Westbrook…24/7 365

  • UncheckedAggression

    It’s interesting to see the differences in how people make their point. Many of the people that pick Rose seem to have a real attitude about it. It’s like they are offended by the fact that some people don’t agree with them. And it also seems like the Westbrook supporters are much more apologetic about their selection. As in “I know the obvious choice is supposed to be Rose, but…”

    I said I’d rather have Westbrook but I’ll admit that it wasn’t a quick or easy decision. Part of the reason I picked RW is because he’s improving at a pretty fast rate. I just haven’t seen that improvement in Rose.

  • Qrentis

    @uncheckaggression

    So u haven’t seen an improvement in rose, from goin from the number 1 draft pick from college and bein the rookie of the year and leadin his team to the playoffs than the next year up his scoring even though he started the season with a bum ankle and still lead his team to the playoffs… and u saw no improvement??????

    That’s exactly why were upset with these posts because they’re just plain stupid..

  • K Dizzle

    Lovin it.
    Good arguments by both sides, and as a Laker fan, would love either one over our 6’3 freak athlete, Shannon Brown.

    It’s funny how pretty much everybody ignored Gee’s question askin why nobody’s talkin about the defensive side of the ball. Both guys have legit shotblockers behind then, but there’s no argument that Westbrook is the better defender. This argument is like when dudes were sayin TMac was as good or better than Kobe around 2003-2006 but never talked about the fact that Kobe was lockin down fools and gettin First Team All-Defense repeatedly while McGrady didn’t even consider defense.
    Rose is the more dynamic scorer but Westbrook is more of a willing passer….except when he was killin my Lakers and Fish…
    Rose supporters give him props for gettin to the playoffs and being an all-star. All good, but it should be added that he plays in the east and it’s easier to make the playoffs; Chris Bosh makes a layup against the Warriors and the Bulls are home watchin the playoffs. Bulls finish behind Houston and Memphis if they played out west last season. You can stack up wins quick playin Indy, Detroit, Philly, Washington, Jersey and Toronto.

    As a laker fan, I’d take Westbrook cuz he’s more defensive minded and crashes the glass so hard for a point that he’d fit in easy.
    As a Bulls fan, you NEED Rose cuz for a team on the comeup, you need a scorefirst guard that can put up numbers. This would be a better comparison if Melo signs with Chicago and we can see how Rose plays as a setup man.

  • Stunnaboy09

    I agree with Unchecked in that everyone picking Rose act like Westbrook is a scrub while everyone picking Westbrook brings up FIBA (not a valid excuse)

    Both similar players, Rose has more of a jump shot Westbrook BY FAR the better defender (come on it aint debatable.)

    Westbrook playing with Durant helps his assist. But most of them come from Green, Kristic and others down low who can’t initiate their own offense. Durant gets his points mainly off

    a) screens
    b) pull ups
    c) the line

    Out of those 3 only off the screens get assisted by Westbrook.

    Rose has the ball in his hands majority of the time leading to better stats. You got to account for that as well.

    Whoever said Rose is the greatest PG athlete of all time need to look at Nate and Steve Franchise

    You cant win a chip with either of them as your best player, but at least Westbrook knows this and is an amazing second banana to Durant. If I had to chose I’d probably go with Rose and only take Westbrook if I had a clear number 1 option. I may not win a ring with Rose but I dam sure will sell tickets.

  • UncheckedAggression

    Qrentis–Calm down man. I have seen improvement in Rose. But nowhere near the improvement I’ve seen in Westbrook. That makes me wonder if Rose has what it takes to be great. Rose entered the league as an incredibly talented PG that had a few holes in his game. He has improved but he still has those holes and his numbers aren’t insane. Westbrook was not expected to be this good. He’s improved quite a bit since he entered the league and is at least close to Rose at this point since this argument seems to have plenty of support for both sides.

    Yes, Rose “led” his team to the playoffs. But that team has some decent pieces and belonged in the playoffs (in the east, anyway). It’s not like he does everything by himself.

    Many of you just need to stop being so defensive. You take it personally that others don’t agree with you and you automatically accuse the other party of being idiots. Try being a little more objective, please!

  • Sac

    Wow!

    There are some childish, in-articulate excruciatingly un-knowledgeable, petty female-like responders/haters on this basketball site sometimes (Not you today Chica).

    Thank God that’s not most of you!

  • Sac

    Hey Slick Rick. Good points on playing defense.

    But that’s the problem in a nutshell. I don’t think that Rose has that commitment, fundamentals or team defensive scheme.

    You are right. A player can become a good defensive player, if he’s not fast or quick. But also keep in mind, the first thing that most scouts and coaches look for in a defender (if there present) are long arms and lateral quickness. It’s one of those mind against athleticism arguments. Which one would you prefer (or both)? Lol.

    Roses, lack of defensive fundamentals, desire and team commitment, only exacerbate his lack of lateral quickness on defense, till he makes a commitment to play better defense.

    Now that he has a new defensive minded coach. Hopefully he will achieve this and learn to play better man to man and team defense in a pro-setting. The individual defense he learned from Coach K won’t help him as much in the NBA as Coach Thibs will.

    Maybe he’ll learn some better point guard/intangible skills from Coach Thibs as well. I hope so.

  • Mt. Pleasant

    To all of those people saying Westbrook is all Durant and if Rose had Durant he’d have way more assists, didn’t Rose just spend the last month playing with Durant? It didn’t seem to help his assist numbers at all.

    I’d probably still take Rose, just sayin Rose having just played with Durant and not lit it up kind of negates that argument.

  • http://yahoo.com Chicagodog23

    Let’s just agree on this, major injuries withholding, mid-season we’ll see who’s better. I’ll be sure to return to this post to either do some major gloating or genuine apologizing. We’ll just have to see.

  • http://yahoo Jauriese

    Both Russell Westbrook and D. Rose are similar in many ways. Both are athletic, have speed, are capitable of getting to the rim, and they are 2 of the best dunking point guards in the league. If I had to choose one to build my team around, I would choose Derrick Rose without a doubt. But if I wanted to choose a consistent player who is very energetic, Russell Westbrook has that edge. Overrall my choice is Derrick rose for the simple fact that he can break down the defense and get to the rim whenever he wants…

  • Sac

    Hey Quentis.

    I think many people fail to realize that (unless a player has a all time great NBA career and your trying to compare him against another all time great players at the same position for arguments; i.e Kareem vs Wilt Chamberlain as an example), nobody cares about your high school or College statistics mostly.

    That’s not how the NBA and scouting works.

    There are/were many great #1 high school and college players and number one draft picks that have sucked in the NBA. Too many to mention. Subsequently there have been many not so highly touted high school, college or NBA draft picks, that have turned out to be very good or all time great NBA players.

    Unfortunately, I think it’s this #1 draft pick notion that clouds many Rose supporters. They’ve brought the hype and can’t look at his game fairly, because their caught up in his high school and draft status. Who cares!You’re in the NBA now.

    That’s why you hear things like “he’s the best athlete of all time at the point”, which is just a ludicrous statement in itself, if they actually realized what they were saying. But they don’t care, cause that’s what some dumb reporter or announcer told them (though they’ll deny this of course), so they repeated it.

    So what you get is a fan, that not only believes the hype, but he violently defends this player blindly because he’s invested so much emotion and passion of the highly touted draft pick (fear of failure), instead of looking at his game objectively.

    The funny part is; nobody remembers the mountain of highly touted draft pics (College and high school players alike) that ended up as disappointments and out the league. If they did, they would be more objecting in assessing Rose’s (or other people like him) game.

    And that’s what we/people mean, when we keep comparing him to Chris Jackson, Steve Francis, Kenny Anderson, Stephon Marbury, etc.

    These guys need to get a grip (and some perspective and knowledge). We’re only exchanging ideas, thoughts and knowledge.

  • Qrentis

    Y not look at the acomplishments..
    Were judging off there career so far right?.. and so far D rose has acomplished more.. (truth)

    We give players awards and such for a reason… I’m not sayin its gonna make his career just wanted to throw them out there because its as if y’all forgot after one wc tourney in which they won and didn’t even need rose on the team that’s how much of a cake walk it was..

    As I posted in my earlier post I like russell’s game but his talent gives him just enough to be a very good sidekick.. ( he fits durants game perfectly)

    But Rose has proven already that he has what it takes to be an cornerstone of an nba franchise.. and that’s the truth..

    As of now D rose is better untill proven otherwise..

  • Sac

    Hey Unchecked Aggression.

    My last long post was actually written for you(responding to what you said to Qrentis), but I used Qrentis name instead of yours. Sorry. Check it out, if you haven’t.

    Now to Qrentis. Since you responded to me(I think), I will respond to you.

    Did you read anything I wrote in the first paragraph and the rest of my post? Seriously?

    You can’t compare Derrick Rose College Career, when he hasn’t even established his NBA career yet. You just can’t do it for a variety of reasons.

    Did you read anything I wrote? There have been many highly touted High school, College and #1 draft picks, who have sucked or never made it to the pros and inversely there were guys who were unknown (to the scouts and public mainly) or not highly touted coming out of high school, college and the pro draft, who have become all time great players (and much better than the guys drafted ahead of them). It happens all the time. Being a number one or high draft pick, doesn’t guarantee you’ll be a great, good or even a player in the NBA. Not at all!

    What does this teach us? It means 1) many scouts are wrong. 2) And what they thought they knew or was seeing wasn’t true. 3) College or high school can both camouflage a players weakness or suppress their strengths 4)Players can improve, regress, stay the same or were never that good in the first place, coming from High School, College or as high draft picks). 5) Lastly, you don’t know what type of heart, team, or system a player is going to play in or have; and to what effect does that have on their careers.

    Anytime a player is arguing a player that’s been in the league for two years (entering his 3rd in Rose’s case), that means the person arguing knows nothing about evaluating ball players, or the player he’s jocking is just sub par, a disappointment or not lived up to their billing. If they were that good, you wouldn’t have to talk about College.

    Your college and high school careers are wiped out once your in the pros, unless you had a great pro career and you want to look back. Like I said; nobody cares, once your in the NBA! Everything is reset to Zero!

    Most pro players were great high school and College players (or at least we though so).

  • Stunnaboy09

    @ Qrentis

    Corner stone of an 8th seed averaging 41 wins out East franchise. With no playoff series wins. Don’t forget that.

  • Sac

    Sorry. I meant to say above “Most pro players were great high school and/or College players anyway (or at least we though so or didn’t know”.

  • Sac

    Unfortunately I don’t think that Rose has proven to be a corner stone of an NBA franchise Qrentis and here’s why.

    I think he’s a very good chip or block, but not a cornerstone, cause he’s too small, can’t shoot (though he likes to) and is not a real point guard.

    You know I was reading some Bulls fans comments on another website, debating whether or not Carmelo Anthony should come to the Bulls. Do you know most of them actually objected (because) if it would make Carmelo the lead scorer on the team and number one scoring option. I swear this is what many of them wrote.

    This is the problem with Bulls fans and why Rose can’t be a cornerstone (other than maybe a important piece).

    6’1″ pass first off guards in point guard bodies, are not cornerstones to build around. They never have been. They may be fun and important on a bad team, that needs their scoring to entertain their win starved fans (like Chicago post Jordan). But in order to win in the NBA, your leading and featured scorer 95% of the time, is not somebody 6’1/2″ like Rose. It’s just never been that way!

    If Rose continues to be the leading scorer of the Bulls (with out averaging 11 assist a game) the Chicago Bulls will never come close to ever winning anything, will continually get knocked out of the playoffs early and eventually sour on Rose. Book it! It always does in these cases (Steve Francis, Arenas, Chris Jackson, Stephon Marbury, Kenny Anderson, etc.).

    The guy already takes 17 shots a game, now you want him to chuck up even more if Carmelo was there Bulls fans?

    These small, shoot happy/first point guard stories, usually don’t work out well, especially with Bull fans (or a mentality) like that! Lol.

    You’ll see, unless this guy improves or gets some true point guard skills, defense mentality.

  • D Roc

    Can’t wait for the season to start so all the questions will be answered.Somebody stated that Rose plays in the East so that explains his success, when his numbers are greater against Western Conference teams due to the up and down style. There was another statement about Westbrook defending Rose the whole game, well I’ve seen both games they’ve played last year and Thabo defended him for a majority of the game.I love Westbrooks energy and aggression but when teams start framing their whole defensive gameplan on stopping him only then will I compare him to Rose. I’m done with the debate its time for the players to prove it on the floor.

  • Sac

    Here’s what I’m saying in a nutshell Qrentis & Unchecked aggression.

    Rose’s scoring means nothing at that size, if he’s not a natural passer, leader, play maker, high basketball IQ’r and defender (which at this stage, he’s not and I think he’s stopped growing already to).

    The problem is; he’s way too small and his outside shot too poor (even if he was taller) to play the Off Guard position. That’s the conundrum!!

    At this stage of his career, Derrick Rose is a tweener, just like so many before him who’s learning how to play point guard position on the job (like Westbrook, Francis, Jackson, Arena’s, etc.) Some do a better job than others (as Westbrook is learning now), but most don’t learn at all. But their forced to stay at off guard do to their size or outside marksmanship, or their moved to off guard, cause they can shoot (though their undersized),while lacking true point guard or ball handling skills.

    We’ll see!

  • Sac

    Sorry, I mean to say above

    “At this stage of his career, Derrick Rose is a tweener, just like so many before him who’s learning how to play point guard position on the job (like Westbrook, Francis, Jackson, Arena’s, etc.) Some do a better job than others (as Westbrook is learning now), but most don’t learn at all. But their forced to stay at Point Guard do to their lack of size or outside marksmanship, or their moved to off guard, cause they can shoot (though they may be undersized),while lacking true point guard or ball handling skills. That’s usually what happens. This is not a new story.”

    We’ll see!

  • Qrentis

    @ sac

    I never said just because he was an number one pick he will be great just for that reason.. and I’m not sayin just because westbrook wasn’t highly touted he won’t be great.. he went to ucla for a reason.. I know he’s good…

    I’m just sayin rose was number 1 for a reason and he looks FAR from a bust in my eye.. so that arguement is dead..

    @stunnaboy

    Yea I’m aware that they were an 8th seed.. but they also had average talent around rose also..

    Wut don’t y’all understand..?
    With my post?

  • Carlos PR

    Dont be ignorant people, obviously Derrick Rose is a better player all around. FIBA basketball is DIFFERENT from NBA check out career stats and compare for yourself in NBA.com and then we will continue talking

  • Slick Ric

    I keep seeing people say D Rose is the next francis he’s nothing like francis besides the fact of athleticism. He’s more like a marbury or tony parker.

  • tp

    I read up to post #113 and stopped right there.

    Read that post guys. Rose and Westbrook JUST played together with the same teammates and RW clearly outplayed Rose. What’s the excuse? FIBA? Coach K’s imaginary handcuffs? RW and Durant have been teammates? Yea let’s ignore the rest of the squad why don’t we. If you’re going to make arguments please try not to be so biased.

    I always thought Rose was going to be an absolute beast in this league. Don’t get me wrong, he’s still damn good. But whoever said that Rose isn’t improving as much as RW is completely right. Rose was absolutely amazing his rookie year, has he really gotten THAT much better since then? I don’t know. RW on the other hand is learning on the job and has improved drastically.

    Ask me this last year, and it’s a no brainer to take Rose. Ask me now, and I think I’m going to go with RW.

  • tp

    PS – for the love of god why are you idiots using high school and college accolades as arguments for playing in the NBA? SMH

  • Sac

    Amen TP (on people using high school and college statistics and honors for NBA arguments). Lol/SMH to.

  • Jerkishbehavior.com

    @ sac

    Drose is a playmaker and leader, he was forced into a position to be a dominant scorer because the bulls got rid of gordon and have no shooters but still avg 6 asts. Drose stats not only improved from his rook to soph yr (despite gettin off to a slow start with an ankle injury). Not only that he raised his level of play and scoring avg by 6points in the playoffs against the best team in the east 2yrs in a row (celts/cavs). And drose jumper is steadily gettin better and better, he has once the most improved midrange games in the league (he isnt a 3pt shooter which is all he shot in the WC). Drose is a pg and not a tweener.

    i love westbrooks game cuz he is a athletic freak and energy guy but The only thing westbrook does better than is rebound and defend but he also much bigger and taller than drose. But pg arent paid to be rebound, thats the big mans job. Besides jkidd and rondo, pgs dont rebound well.

    So how is westbrook a better player and how is drose not considered a good/great #1 draft pick?

  • UncheckedAggression

    Jerkishbehavior–I suppose Rose was forced into a position to be a dominant scorer, but he averaged 21 pts. That’s borderline “dominant scorer” I guess. Do you really think Westbrook isn’t capable of scoring that much as a no. 1 option? And claiming Westbrook is only better at rebounding and defense is a little suspect too. It seems clear that Westbrook is now the better passer (he averaged 33% more assists, man). There’s a fairly big difference between 6 and 8 assists a game. And I’m also surprised at how the defense side has been left alone by pro-Rose folks. Most have done one of two things: ignored the issue altogether or claimed that Rose isn’t far behind Westbrook. Well he is behind Westbrook. By a lot.

    Rose was a great #1 draft pick (especially since the alternative woulda been Beasley). I wouldn’t challenge that at all. Way too many top picks don’t turn out so well, so there’s no reason to hate on a pick that led to the ROY. As of now though, if Westbrook isn’t better then it is at least fairly close.

  • Sac

    Hey Jerkish.

    Thanks for a heated, but level headed content filled respectful response (you acknowledged that Westbrook is taller, energetic and a athletic freak, etc. compared to Rose, while making your argument). I applaud you for that.

    The reason why I chose Westbrook, is cause of all those good things that you mentioned about about him (though you also left out, that Westbrook is a much better defender, and doesn’t get beat nearly as much by the oppositions point guard the way Rose does).

    Now What we disagree in, is Rose’s point guard Bonafides and hype Jerkish.

    I don’t feel he’s a bad point guard at all. I feel he’s still developing. But I do think on a scale of 1-10, Rose is a 6-7 as far as his point guard skills and intangibles are concerned. His athleticism makes up for the rest. So maybe he’s about a 7.5 as far as overall impact. He’s still learning.

    Remember (and I’m sorry for repeating this, but you wrote/asked me) Rose lacks many intangibles for the position that even many Bulls fans admit to. He’s a functional, but not a great natural passer, he’s many times out of control, he doesn’t change pace as often as he should (though he’s not as out of control, running at one speed as Westbrook was in Fiba). Don’t you think Rose
    s dribbles with his head down too much in the half court offense and he’s a poor defender.

    You’re right! A point guards primary role is not to rebound. His role is to primarily run the team/offense, set up his team mates, pass, play good defense on the opposition, hit the option shot or lane and be the proverbial coach on the floor. Once he’s mastered these things, he’s free to be a three point shooter or rebounder, etc.

    Sorry. Rose just strikes me as an offensive minded/shoot first point guard, like so many others we’ve seen over the years. The reason why I called him a tweener, is because what is he, a point guard or a scoring guard?

    Even many Bulls fans seem to be confused or unsure about this or his role on the team, with or with out a scoring stud/champion like Carmelo Anthony possibly coming?

    Now saying all that, I think Rose’s progression is fine. And I know he’s a hard worker and wants to improve his game. He should!

    But so many Bulls fans speak about him like his game is so complete and his athleticism so exceptional (though it’s very, very good), that people sometimes have to point out inequities or deficiencies in what many Bulls fans are spouting or in Rose’s game. Rose is not as unique as they think he is. He’s actually quite familiar to those that follow his type over the years. But he can certainly improve or get better. But I just don’t feel he’s a true or natural point guard.

    Actually, I think he should strive for Kevin Johnson or Tim Hard away (two point guards I absolutely love by the way). These guys weren’t natural point guards per se, but they still dedicated themselves to passing, setting up team mates and scoring. Just for comparisons sake (so you know what I’m talking about), Isaih was a natural, highly athletic point guard, who could shoot and score is ass off. You cold call him the pinnacle (minus rebounding and height).

    KJ couldn’t shoot (though he had exceptional quickness), but Tim Hardaway could (though he wasn’t as fast as KJ, but he didn’t have to be, cause he had that bad ass cross over and jerky moves, with exceptional ball handling).

    So in a nutshell. I think Westbrook makes a significantly better off guard than Rose, because of all the things you mentioned. But I don’t think Rose makes a better point guard (and even if he does its not by that much and Westbrooks athletic gifts and height balance it out I think, cause of their small skill differential.

    I just don’t think D.Rose is a natural accomplished point guard.

    I just think he’s a short guy, that runs fast, that likes to score, who’s trying to run an offense. But I’m not convinced he has natural, intangible point guard skills just because he passes and plays the position. But he’s a good player. Only that his role is limited, cause he’s too small to play off guard and he can’t shoot for the 2 guard position anyway (as I’ve said many times here).

    Does that make sense/answer your question?

  • http://www.dimemag.com Andrew Macaluso

    Nice to see that Westbrook is getting a lot of love!

  • Sac

    Hey Unchecked Aggression and Jerkish Behave.

    Unchecked brought up a great point, which I made deep into one of my many detailed responses. Lol.

    Don’t you guys think Westbrook could score 21 points a game if he was the primary option?

    Scoring from small point guards never impress me, unless they pile up a bunch of assist and are good team leaders and can run the offense. It doesn’t make them bad players if they can’t do those things. They can be very good players. But it just doesn’t make them exceptional point guards. If their 6’1/2″ tall like Rose (with out those natural or acquired point guard skills), then their roles, point guard effectiveness and versatility are limited.

  • http://getyourishbusted.net Chicagorilla

    holy santa claus $h!t 130 post???? this is crazy. Is Rose really that popular? If this was Westbrook vs Eric Gordon would it be this many replies? hahaha. crazy.

    Dudes talking out they a$$ on here too. Not gonna say any names (Ball SAc, Unchecked, Tp, KDizzle). I can see that you guys only follow the players on your favorite teams. If you have followed Westbrook closely (which you would need to do to make an argument for him being better than Rose) you would know about his erractly play and out of control terrible PG skills. He’s always been like that, even back in High school.

    And some idiot said he has improved GREATLY…lmfao. really? because you have watched RW so much you actually can guage his progression? GTFOH. I go back to his freshman year at UCLA (one of my fav college programs in the nation with UNC/ILL) and his game has not changed one bit from his sophmore year in college. Same exact player. I take that back, his jumper has improved to respectable levels but not a threat at all. The NBA game is so open that it fit RW perfectly which is why he was chosen so high (4th pick? can’t remember). There is a reason they traded for Eric Maynor. Maynor runs PG in close games and they let RW play the 2.

    RW To’s per were 3.3 in 34min per
    DROSE To’s per were 2.7 in in 37min per

    so if DRose is such a terrible PG AND he has the ball in his hands SOOOO much while RW doesn’t have the ball NEARLY as much (according to some idiot posters), then Rose should avg closer to 5 TO’s per.

    Rose 49%FG up from the 47.5 % he shot his rookie year
    RW 42% FG…up from the 39% he shot his rookie year

    Still don’t feel stupid yet?

    Rose gets 6ast per game on a team that doesnt run, and the leading scorer (excluding Rose) gets 18ppg(Deng) with 61% of his shots asstd.
    Which btw how do you think Deng gets ANY of his pts? put a pin in that we’ll come back to it

    RW gets 8 ast per game on a team that runs and the leading scorer drops 30ppg (Durant) with 52% of his shots asstd.

    still reading, got your panties in a bunch ready to respond? Hold that thought I got more

    Rose was a top 5 player coming out of highschool.
    -Went to Memphis as the savior and lived up to the hype by leading his team to the National Championship game which they lost in OT.

    -Met up with R.Westbrook’s UCLA Bruins (also a #1 seed) in the 2008 NCAA tournament. Rose led his team with 25 Pts, 9 Reb, 4 Ast, 1 Stl 1TO in the 78-63 win

    -was drafted as the #1 overall pick by the same city he grew up in. how’s that for added pressure to being the #1 pick
    – in a pretty LOADED draft class, he outshined OJ Mayo, Mike Beasley, Eric Gordon, Brook Lopez and Kevin Love to win ROY with a pretty good chunk of the votes
    – in his first playoff game…against the defending champs…as the 7th seed….ON THE ROAD IN BOSTON…he gives 36pts and 11asst to one of the NBAs best defensive units and a guy many consider the best defensive PG in the NBA (Rondo) though I disagree lol
    -In a old school 90’s style (fights/blood/physical play) battle in which 5 of the 7 games (I believe i’m not sure) went into OVERTIME, and there was only one blowout win the entire series, he led his team to game 7 vs Boston and nearly pulled off the upset over the #2 seed.
    -Sophmore year much of the same, game winning plays (not just shots) super highlights (thank you Dragic) and raising his PPG because the team gave away Salmons, Ben Gordon, and Tyrus thomas. also makes first ASG even after slow start for a month with a bad ankle

    -Still managed to be an 8th seed in the east and pull out a win vs LBJ and the Cavs. while DRose’s playoff avgs went to 27ppg-7ast-3rpg- on 45% FG shooting.

    – selected to Team USA, SOME FANS thought he’d be a superstar in FIBA play, while he did make the game winning buckets vs Spain (considered to be the best team other than team USA)and had a respectable games he still played under SOME FANS expectations though his numbers were the same as every other PG who played FIBA basketball with the US.

    Westbrooks credentials
    – his frosh year at UCLA he would get in the game and make a fantasic play, then shortly after that would make an equally terrible play. This was expected of him seeing as how he wasn’t a top recruit and developed late into his HS career, but Ben Howland was sold on his talents and brought him to UCLA

    -Came out playing PG his soph year because Collinson was hurt for sevreral games. did a very good job of holding down the PG spot so Holland slid him to the 2guard instead of benching him when Collinson came back. Westbrook continued to shine.

    -Met up with DRose’s Memphis Tigers in the 08 NCAA tourney and held his own in the 78-63 loss with~ 22 Pts, 3 Reb, 2 Ast, 2 Stl

    – #4 pick by OKC in 08. up and down rookie year but did help the team up their wins and finsihed with 15-5-5. and failed to make the playoffs even with Durant (25ppg) annd Green (16.5ppg).

    – Soph year RW is more agressive from the begining of the year, his teammates have gotten better (mainly durant 30ppg) OKC makes a huge turnaround and makes the playoffs

    – RW dominates 36yr old 14yr vet Derek Fisher. to the tune of 20pts-6rpg-6apg-1.7spg while shooting 47% FG…hmm those numbers look familiar to someone else’s Reg season avgs…lmao

    – RW makes the USA team and plays a very important role in the team winning gold. Which pretty much is the basis of this entire argument

    If you are still going to respond trying to say Westbrook > Rose. Then I guess everyone’s allowed to have an opinion. Some of us use logic, some use emotions, and some people are just stupid. you already know which one i think most of you are

  • Qrentis

    Ok I might have been a “lil” baised, with me residing in Maywood, Chicago.. home of proviso east highschool, with the likes of doc rivers, mike finley, shannon brown, dee brown and others comin from here ( I was just lettin y’all know where I’m from)

    But its not like ill take rose over every young pg..
    I think tyreke evans has the talent to “eventually” be better than both d rose and westbrook

    But moral to these articles that have been posted about the wc and now this is, ok gone head and king westbrook for playin a good 6th, 7th man role and playing slightly better than d rose in at the world championship..

    I will still take rose over westbrook but it isn’t a no brainer like I said earlier in the post..

    But Did westbrook take any jumpers in the wc?? Lol

    Aye y’all there is a lot of young talent in the nba and I’m ready for the season and nba 2k11 to get here..

  • gilford

    Derrick Rose is just the second coming of Steve Francis minus the fact that Steve Francis rebounds the ball like a small forward. He doesn’t even pass the ball like a point guard (6+ assist only in his career) should.

    If doesn’t improved his passing ability with Boozer on the low block then It’s safe to assume that he is overrated for being one of the top PGs in the league.

  • http://getyourishbusted.net Chicagorilla

    @Sac,

    Did you really write that Rose doesn’t have laterall quickness?
    So Andre Miller and Eddie House FELL DOWN on their own when he shook them? had nothing to do with his quickness side to side?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9fAYmnWLH0&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAA8mLz8aJ0&feature=related

    you are a f^king idiot. You can call me childish and all for calling your bluff. But I would bet that your a$$ has never watched DRose play a game outside of FIBA play or when he played your favorite team and I doubt you saw most of those.

    Saying $h!t like he has “no laterall quickness”, doubting his freakish athelticism, using a dumb argument that Russ is taller (BY ONE F^KING INCH YOU IDIOT?) somehow makes him better, and that Rose is a scoring guard (which tells me you know nothing about his game play or basketball in general).

    About the only thing you all have brought up that is valid is that Westbrook is better on defense. I’ll give you that, that’s one of the reason I love watching Westbrook myself. DRose’s defense isn’t terrible by any means as he plays very good man to man D. It’s the pick-n-roll D and the lack of team help D that he doesn’t play well.

  • Qrentis

    Good post chicagorilla..

    Wish I would read it befor I just posted mine because there’s no need for my post after that haha

  • http://www.dimemag.com Andrew Macaluso

    @ Qrentis

    My brother lives down the road in Brookfield.

  • http://getyourishbusted.net Chicagorilla

    @Qrentis,

    I been here the whole time just reading throughout the day. The stupid talk was a little overwhelming for me earlier and i didn’t want it to take my soul!

    hahaha,
    anyway yeh you should delete that post. Tyreke is pretty good (better than I thought he’d be) but he’s no PG. He’s a playmaker though. He slid to SG most of the season as Beno Udrich came in the run PG (15ppg 6apg as a starter). Reke is a playmaker because he can post up not because he creates off the dribble. Which is why they started him at PG so he could take advantage of smaller guards. Coaches got smart and put the PG on the SG (Casspi or Green or Martin) and guarded him with bigger players. Reke was just really good at getting to the rim.

  • Sac

    Big Yawn Chica Gorilla (with hand over open mouth while exaling).

    You don’t even need a response and it’s obvious you don’t have a life outside of Derrick Rose, Chicago basketball and This website. Get a life! So you’re the impervious defender of The Rose I see. Ok. Kool! I got it!

    You do realize we all have opinions and can disagree, right? Yeah. I think you missed that memo.

    As far as my basketball experience (which I really shouldn’t have to answer, but I’ll do it for you since your quite mental and I’m currently bored while finishing a proposal I’m writing for some clients by deadline).

    I played high school basketball (started) and in College.

    I’ve also scouted for Player agents and dabbled in that business/as a player agent my self with some of my lawyer/business, basketball colleagues. I also went to 5 Star (Honesdale) under Garf and Nike ABCD under Sonny and many others camps and I also played played AAU.

    Now what’s your basketball experience and credentials, since you speculated on mine? Are you even a man (real or imagined)?

    But I’m not here to talk about myself or my basketball background, especially for likes of loud mouth, depressed basketball neophytes/imbeciles-wannabees like you.

    Now to your exalted video find. Woooeeee! Geesh! Do I have to? Lol.

    Now, if you read any of my post regarding Derrick Rose lateral quickness (or lack of it). I was clear that it was relative to his up and down speed. I never said he was a sloth. It’s relative. Do you know what that means?

    For example, answer this dim wit. If Russel Westbrook and Rose have practically the same 3/4 court speed (3.05 vs 3.07), then how is it that they have a full one second differential in their lane agility score? Answer that please Bitch Chimpanzee/Ape Man/Woman, what ever you call yourself?

    They have only a 2/100 secs difference in up and down speed. But they have a full one second difference in lane agility. What do you think that means Chiquita Banana Brain? They both ran the same Lane Agility Course. Duhhhhhhh! Rose can’t stop and start as fast as Westbrook! THINK & READ PLEASE! READ WHEN I WRITE!

    If you only respond to one thing I wrote, please let it be that. I’m begging you. Explain that one second differential and what it means (along with the Nate Robinson number below)?

    Also, just cause your not as quick as someone else, it doesn’t mean it can’t be made up in craftiness, ball handling, feints and timing. This is basketball, not track and field. Do I even have to explain that to you Moron.

    I can find you any clips of Mark Jackson, Larry Bird, Keven Mchale or Steve Nash serving and leaving people at the key, base line or foul line. So what? None of those guys were even considered fast. And they all had good to great careers.

    Wow! But you’re really slick and a true Einstein. I bring up Rose’s lateral differential on Defense and you bring up a selected clip of his on offense!

    Your such an idiot Chick Dick, that you don’t even realize the type of fool you make yourself to be on here every day/night! Every body knows it, except you!

    I shouldn’t even comment on your Freakish Athleticism argument, because there a lot of guards in the NBA with “Freakish” or great athleticism.

    The reason why I don’t say Rose has FREAKISH ATHLETICISM (as you do), is because he’s small and doesn’t have great (but good) length or height (average) at his position. He’s just fast!

    Athletically; he is not Rajon Rondo, John Wall or Westbrook at the PG position.

    Do you realize, those guys are just as fast; quicker (we already went over that now Dick Gorilla), but are taller or have more length. You may not think two to three inches in length, height or standing reach make a big difference in basketball, but it does. You would know this if you played or watched as much basketball as your insufferable life and idolization allows you/alludes to.

    Yes. Rose is very fast. But guess what? There a lot of verrry fast point guards in the NBA. That alone is not going to make you a very good point guard.

    Are you even aware that there are many point guards in and out of the NBA that are just as fast, if not faster than Derrick Rose, Tony Parker, Beaubois, etc. Just check any draftexpress stat sheet. But nobody cares, cause many of those guys are out the league, or in the league and can or can’t play. It varies.

    Shoot! 90% of NBA point guards are fast. It’s almost a pre-requisite for the position Dumbo. So Rose being very fast, gives him certain advantages, but it doesn’t answer the question for him or anyone else at the position.

    FYI Charcoal Gorilla. Nate Robinson Ran a 2.96 (look it shit brain and report here instead of keeping it in your minuscule brain) at the combines, vs your boys 3.05.

    Just let that marinate for a second…..But have you ever heard anyone talk about how fast Nate Robinson is on the court (Maybe when he was new in the league)? Guess what? Nobody care’s! All they care about are his skills, performance and value to his team.

    Come to think of it. Nate Robinson is Derrick Rose 4 inches shorter (or Derrick Rose is Nate Robinson 5-6 in taller). Yeah. Think (I know it’s hard and creates perpetual brain freezes) about that Primate Chicken Head, before you crazily respond?

    As far as Derrick Rose’s point guard skills? You yourself said that Rose needs to increase his basketball IQ, he’s not a natural point guard and more of an athlete playing point and you feel he should get better with time. Didn’t you say that Chimp Brain? Man! You’re such a Joke Gorilla Shit Head Writer Wannabee! It’s too funny! Lol.

    Lastly. What difference does it make , if a player can’t play the pick and roll, when the majority of NBA point guards run pick and roll to score off the low post player or the other point guard (depending on who’s taking the shot)? It’s still defense, thinking and reaction time, isn’t it? I’m lost to your convoluted logic?

    IT’s getting late and I’ve spent one milli-second more time with you than I planned. Time to go.

    Now STFU and go back to your room, cave or smelly tree that your suicidal/homicidal Monkey Ass swung from and don’t come back till you have a brain, good analysis or thicker skin!!

    You’re dismissed!

    This is who you want to follow Qrentis?

    Mmmhhh. Sorry for you My Dude!

    Grow up and grow a pair Chicadick! Were all Waiting!!

    Once again your dismissed!!!

  • ball

    Some of these cats are hypocrites when they state that Rose’s high school and college stats don’t matter and then want to use a small sample size number of games in the WC to proclaim that Westbrook is better than Rose. Chicagorilla and others have given great hard core stats that have proven that up to this point Rose is the better NBA player. Im done trying to convince people that are just prisoners of the moment who is the better player. Coach K had every opportunity to replace Rose in the starting lineup, you know why he did’nt? Because starting Rose at the point gave him the best chance to win plain and simple. Westbrook and Gordon played excellent roles as backups that provided energy and outside shooting. Coach K could give a damn about who is the most popular player if he felt that Rose was’nt the best option he would’nt have played major minutes. He had a bad tourney he’ll learn from the bad experience and become a better player because of it.

  • http://getyourishbusted.net Chicagorilla

    ummm, I’m all for jokes and insults. I like comedy so I find it funny most times. but this last tid bit you did here with the monkey jokes (i’m assuming because of my SN being part Chicago part Gorilla) I’m sure you thought was clever. It wasn’t.

    You ever see that guy on the basketball court who shows up wearing all Jordan gear with a #23 Carolina Jersey on? He tries entirely too hard to gain status by playing balls out on defense and offense. He’s diving on the concrete for loose balls. And in the end, he never scores a point, he gets crossed up and dunked on all game long because no matter how pretty’d up he is…he still sucks. That my dear ball Sac….that is you.

  • http://getyourishbusted.net Chicagorilla

    Oh and you lost this one buddy.

  • http://getyourishbusted.net Chicagorilla

    ~As ball Sac gets up and walks away from his computer desk, he feels the satisfaction from showing up his challenger, he continues on to the bed room were he will furiously masturbate to his Justin Beiber DVD while reinacting the tounge/keyboard lashing he just laid on that jive turkey Chica-monkey who he really hopes is a woman~

  • UncheckedAggression

    Haha you really are a joke, Chicagorilla. It makes it even better that you don’t know it.

  • Qrentis

    @ chicagorilla

    Tyreke is gonna stay at pg till they find someone who can dominate the ball and make plays like he can..

    And I’m tellin u I’ve beeen watchin him play and its amazing how he’s so unguardable without developing and jumper yet.. and he’s also an underated defender

    @andrew

    Awe that’s cool to know that’s pretty close by

  • Slick Ric

    It’s pretty simple, D Rose is better!

  • dlight

    ok we really need the season to start we just posted 150 over 2 potentially great players with different roles and styles period

  • ay yo..

    Someone said the people defending Westbrook are hypocrites for using FIBA to claim RW is better than DR.

    Huh? It’s the last time we’ve seen them play.

  • http://getyourishbusted.net Chicagorilla

    @Ay yo,

    It’s the ONLY TIME you’ve seen him play. You’ve never watched this kid until now (FIBA play).

  • Ballsdeep

    Put DROSE on Thunder and Westbrook on Bulls. Nuff said.

  • kenny

    dimemag should ask this question after 2010-2011 season is over. my opinion is d rose is better now and will be at the end of the season. westbrook has durant but now d rose has boozer. watch drose go to work hes a beast

  • kenny

    and also a bunch of fags having big discussions on this post. just say who u think is better and get the fuck out. ur not gona change someone elses opinion. fucking cunts

  • sublime

    then if that was last season. DRose on OKC, they wont be on number 8 seed… RW on Bulls, they wont make it to the playoffs i think…

  • meme

    Kinda dumb to say Derrick Rose is not like Rondo or John Wall as far as athleticism? John Wall if anything is a poor man’s Derrick Rose?

  • Fred Flinstone

    This shit is biased towards westbrook…funny how yall dont talk about the jan 27th game: rose 26pts 7asst 3 reb – wesbrook: 10pts 7asst 2rebs, I guess U just forgot about that huh? Rose is the better on court leader, westbrook is a freak athelete, but his overall game isn’t as polished as rose’s. Yes westbrook has better D, but with the new bulls coach, rose’s D could easily improve. And if U think rose cant shoot, then U obviously haven’t seen any of the bulls games during the second half of last season. Lets just say that it is very easy to look good on the court when playing next to a future MVP/ probable HOF-er. Yes westbrook is a great player, but rose is better.

  • $am

    How is this even an argument? Russell Westbrook killed everyone at the Worlds and don’t come here with no shit about his game being “better suited” for the international game. If you’re a good ballplayer period, you can adjust your game to whatever setting you’re in. Coach K should be fined for starting Rose at the worlds. Westbrook is also the more exciting player to watch as he dunks ON people, as compared to Rose who only seems to dunk in the open floor on the break.

  • http://yahoo.com Chicagodog23

    @$am,
    Are you really going to base their entire value on a few games in FIBA? I love how westbrook fans talk about Derrick Rose’s shot, Westbrook shot 41% last year to Derrick’s 49%! Russell even shot slightly worse from three, yet he launched over 100 of them. Derrick is a better finisher at the basket than Russell will ever be. Derrick is a better shooter as well. And to someone a few comments ago who said that having Carlos Boozer, the perfect pick and roll/pop forward to any point guard, won’t help Roses assist totals you’re crazy. Also, $am, you say that Rose’s only great dunks are on the fast break. The only reason you say that is because the dunk on Dragic (third on NBA.com’s top dunks of the year) was on the break. If you knew anything about Rose, he’s posterized Greg Oden, Zach Randolph, and Dante Green among others in the half court setting. People are talking about Rose in the MVP conversation for 2011, when that happens to Russell hit me up.

  • Chise

    Russ Westbrook.

  • Steve

    Derrick Rose
    Chicago
    Position: Guard
    Height: 6-3 Weight: 190
    College: Memphis
    Player file | Team stats
    2010 Playoffs Statistics
    PPG 26.8
    RPG 3.4
    APG 7.2
    SPG 0.8
    BPG 0.0
    FG% 0.456
    FT% 0.818
    3P% 0.333
    MPG 42.4

    Russell Westbrook
    Oklahoma City
    Position: Guard
    Height: 6-3 Weight: 187
    College: UCLA
    Player file | Team stats
    2010 Playoffs Statistics
    PPG 20.5
    RPG 6.0
    APG 6.0
    SPG 1.7
    BPG 0.2
    FG% 0.473
    FT% 0.842
    3P% 0.417
    MPG 35.3

    Why do we need to argue? Derrick out plays him when he wants to, Derrick can shoot stop saying he can’t 48% isn’t a bad field goal percentage. Rose had the inferior team, but still out played Westbrook in there NBA meetings. Rose is only on his 3rd years and hes developing amazingly – there is not even an argument here, it’s not even up for discussion. End of story.

  • Mike

    @Steve
    So what you’re saying is that in the playoffs, Westbrook averaged seven less minutes, seven less points, nearly twice the rebounds, one less assist, and one full steal on better shooting from everywhere than Rose…

    and Rose is a better player.

    Well, I guess he did score more points. Being the main point load for a team.

    If we look at per minute production in the 2010 playoffs, Westbrook was vastly superior, against the world champion Lakers team no less.

    Your argument is terrible and you probably shouldn’t post again.

  • Mike

    Sorry for the double post, but I need to point out more stupidity in Steve’s argument.

    Take this comment, keep young point guards in mind:

    “______ is only on his 3rd years and hes developing amazingly…”

    Fill in the blank guys.

  • http://www.twitter.com/yung_prince Prenti$

    I see the argument is going both ways…

    So let me ask this… if u where starting a team who would u pick up for your franchise player, Rose or Westbrook???

    Anybody that says westbrook are fans and does NOT know basketball.. point blank period

  • BiCHI

    Anyone who puts Steve Francis in the same sentence as Derrick Rose doesn’t deserve to be able to post to this conversation. I love Russell but Rose is better by a mile, not even close

  • DK

    I can’t believe this tread received close 170 comments. It’s not even close. You start a franchise with Rose not Westbrook.