Who’s Better: Ray Allen or Manu Ginobili?
Ray Allen (photo. Jordan Brand)
We argue. You decide.
RAY ALLEN (by L. Shapiro)
There’s a reason why Manu Ginobili has averaged over 30 minutes per game only once in his eight NBA seasons: He simply can’t stay healthy. Manu has not played 82 games in one season yet, either.
Meanwhile, Ray Allen has been able to last since 1996, averaging 37.1 minutes per game. He is known for his fierce work ethic and taking care of his body in his desire to be in the best shape possible. Allen once told the Boston Globe, “I always said the more we run, the better it makes the rest of our game so I’m just trying to remember to get up and down the floor. I focused on getting my body fat (percentage) low, but putting more muscle weight on and having my legs good. I think of all the goals during the season, one of the biggest for us is to stay healthy.”
The hard-working Allen knows that in order for him to continue to put up good numbers at age 35, he must stay in good shape. You know how the saying goes: Those who fail to prepare are preparing to fail.
Let’s not forget that Ray is also one of the best shooters in the NBA, recording better percentages than Ginobili in nearly every category in nearly every year. According to ESPN’s John Hollinger, Allen has the ninth-best Combined Shooting Rating of all-time. Ginobili was nowhere to be found on the ranking.
In terms of individual achievements, Allen has been an All-Star nine times, compared to Ginobili’s one appearance. Sure, Ginobili has two more championship rings, but Allen earned his single ring the hard way. He stepped up big-time, scoring 19 points and grabbing 9 rebounds in Game 4 of the 2008 NBA Finals, which was part of the biggest single-game comeback in Finals history. He also was vital in the Game 6 clincher for Boston, hitting seven three-pointers. In Game 2 of the 2010 Finals, Ray broke his own record by hitting eight threes in one game.
Those kinds of outbursts from Ray will change defensive schemes. Allen needs to have a body or two on him at all times, or else a team might as well give up. Sure, Ginobili’s “Euro Step” looks nice and he even beats Allen in the nearly every per-48-minute category. These stats, however, are not practical, because Ginobili simply can’t stay on the court for minutes like that. After all, just being there is half the battle.
MANU GINOBILI (by C. Mack)
The notion that basketball is the world’s game has been proven true. It all became evident when Team USA lost three times in the 2002 FIBA World Championship. They fell to Pau Gasol and Spain. They lost to Peja Stojakovic and Yugoslavia. But the whole trend began with Team USA’s 87- 80 loss to Argentina in the second preliminary round. The fact was even more apparent when Argentina won gold at the 2004 Olympics. Leading the charge for the South American nation was Manu Ginobili.
Despite the fact that he is one of the pioneer for the rest of the world’s resurgence in international play, his name gets lost for the most part in the discussion of the NBA’s best two-guards. But he is definitely one of the most accomplished in the world at the position. In a head-to-head comparison between him and Ray Allen, Manu is the better choice.
Manu’s game is one of the rarest in the sport. The manner in which he attacks the basket separates him from the rest of the pack. While most superstars display their vertical leaping abilities when finishing a good move to the cup, Manu uses his world-class agility to twist, turn and contort his body in unbelievable angles to score the two. It’s pretty to watch. With that being said, do not think he can’t throw it down on the best of shot-blockers.
Ginobili’s resume of accolades extends beyond three continents. After beginning his career in his native country, Manu went across the pond and dominated the game in Italy. He was three-time Italian league All-Star, the league’s Most Improved Player, and won the Italian Cup MVP. Add to that a Euroleague Final Four MVP in 2001. Since coming to the States, he has added more individual awards. He was an NBA All-Star in 2005. In 2008, he was Sixth Man of the Year and on the All-NBA Third Team. Ray Allen just cannot measure up in this category.
Allen is a big time performer, but he has rarely made it to the championship level. Manu is a champion, plain and simple. Adding Ginobili to your roster makes your team an automatic contender. Every place Ginobili has played, championships followed. In 2001, he won the Triple Crown in Italy by winning the Italian League, Italian Cup, and Euroleague championships. That same year, he brought home a gold medal in the FIBA Americas tournament. He has hoisted the Larry O’Brien trophy three times with the Spurs. Cap it off with the gold medal from the ’04 Olympics, and Manu is the definition of a “world champion.”
As they are both slowly entering the twilight years of their careers, Manu just has the hardware to prove how he is just on a higher level than Ray Allen.
Who do you think is better right now?
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October 19th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
UncheckedAggression says:
This may be the most uneven comparison that you guys have ever done. Comparing them in their respective primes would be cool though.
October 19th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
tony says:
RAY RAY hands down no questions !
October 19th, 2010 at 1:04 pm
Chris says:
Jesus by far.
Respect for Manu, but he isn’t in the same tier as Shuttlesworth.
October 19th, 2010 at 1:07 pm
JD says:
speaking of rings… Manu had Duncan and Parker in their prime while Ray was trapped in the miserable Sonics. Manu didn’t have what it take to be the leader of the squad then but Ray did. Ray Ray would win in the battle – hands down.
October 19th, 2010 at 1:08 pm
KB8toSG8 says:
Ray ray all the way…..that rhymes very well
October 19th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
control says:
Ray Ray! Not saying it just to piss Ian off either.
I can see Ian typing a response longer than the article too…he should have been the one arguing for Manu.
October 19th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
R. Mils says:
I gotta go with Ray, he’ll keep the defense honest. But Manu is not the best definition, a very good definition of a “world champion”.
October 19th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
derik says:
Ray is a better scorer, Manu is a better all around player
October 19th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
Promoman says:
This is uneven as hell. Not to knock Ray at all, but it’s easy to have better numbers when you start. Manu could start on any team and he’s been a backup his NBA career. Manu has had the better career since he’s won at every level of basketball. I’d also give him the edge on defense too.
October 19th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
rainnman says:
i dont think u guys remember that Manu was Kobe’s fav player to watch and when healthy and in his prime, per minute noone at the Sg guard position was better , other than Kobe.
so in their prime? give me a HEALTHY Manu ALL DAY.
October 19th, 2010 at 1:36 pm
jFUG says:
echoing Promoman – Manu has won on every level, he is probably the most accomplished basketball player outside North America and you’re saying Ray Allen is better than him? Seriously?… about the only thing that he doesn’t do as well as RayRay is shoot.
Italian League Championship: 2001
Italian Cup: 2001, 2002
Euroleague: 2001
Triple Crown: 2001
Americas Championship: 2001
NBA Championship: 2003, 2005, 2007
Summer Olympic Games gold medal: 2004
Not even in his prime could RayRay take an Argentinian team to the gold medal championships… the 1st eight ppl on this board don’t know what they’re talking about
October 19th, 2010 at 1:43 pm
Joe's Momma says:
Going by the career I give the nod to Ray
Ray did his thing as the #1 option in Seatle and co-healiner in Milwuakee (but no team accomplishments) Manu was at best the #2 option but he got the 2 rings in SA. But without him they aint winning those rings.
But today, it’s Manu, and by a lot. Ray gets hot every now and then. Sure he keeps the defense honest because simply he is Ray Allen, but the dude who hit 8 3pts in game 2, didn’t hit another one until game 6 or 7. Manu knifes through defenses like butter. His second half last year alone got him a $40million extension.
RayRay can be beneficial to his team while his stroke is not on, but that doesn’t keep him from going 0-whatever in stretches. Manu does a bunch of things that don’t show up on the stat sheet, and is a gamer.
October 19th, 2010 at 1:47 pm
dagwaller says:
Weird comparison. Ray Allen is, in my opinion, the best shooter of all time.
But it’s hard to argue with all the winning that Manu has done. Isn’t that the idea?
October 19th, 2010 at 2:00 pm
Nizzio says:
Ray Allen is a better shooter and he is faster, but Manu is a better all around player. He is an underrated defender (that nasty block on KD) and he can easily be a superstar if he is put in that situation. No disrespect to Ray, who is an excellent player of his right. And it’s a bad comparison. They are two different types of players.
October 19th, 2010 at 2:20 pm
Sporty-j says:
It amazes me how cats on here really try to act as if they know about the game of basketball and really dont. Even though its not a fair comparison and a better 1 would have been Reggie Miler for Allen. Give me MANU. His resume speaks for its self even though he was on a better team than Allen but theres no way Allen would have lead that Argentina team to a gold medal the way tough a$$ MANU did. Manu was the second best SG the league before WADE came along and when your talking basketball. All AROUND GAME is way more important than just running around 1000 screens to shot a 3. Defense does matter in conversations and being able to take a guy off the dribble and dishing the ball to teammates for easy baskets make MANU the better player easily. Ray Allen is a better shooter than Manu and THATS IT…
October 19th, 2010 at 2:38 pm
Ian says:
shapiro
thats not the reason manu avgs less than 30 mns its because hes a team win first type player.
the only thing ray has over manu is shootin 3s everything else is all manu. let me know when manu stinks up a finals like ray did last year. allen cant do with argentina what manu did for them. someone mention that allen led seattle and manu doesnt have to for the spurs ehh lead seattle were??? he was the best player on a team that had lewis as his sidekick? big deal. the stats manu put up as a starter (check after allstar game) are wade like numbers. manu is a better passer , rebounder , defender and scorer so again how is this comparison even fair?
control
i cant get pissed off cuz i know u dont like him but what a coincidence that every team manu has been on wins right?
October 19th, 2010 at 2:40 pm
Ian says:
btw i forgot 3rd best sg in the league and clutch as hell. its not td and parker takin or making the big plays for the spurs its manu.
October 19th, 2010 at 2:43 pm
Taj says:
Bogus argument for Ginobli.. JESUS SHUTTLESWORTH ALL DAY!!!!!!
Manu’s a great player, but not at Ray’s level throughout his entire career…
October 19th, 2010 at 2:58 pm
christian says:
ginobili way over ray allen….ray allen is another glorified american scorer who’s only won one title…while ginobili came to the nba in his late twenties and already accumulated three…ginobili’s one at every single level…he’s an international winner…meanwhile ray piled up nice stats on crappy teams…only finally winning a ring late in his career…yall act like ginobili’s always hurt and cant stay healthy…he was healthy enough to win three nba titles, the euro championship, the olympic medal…and even had the pleasure of taking out ray allen when he was on the sonics…yall keep hating on ginobili…but you can’t argue who’s the winner of the two
October 19th, 2010 at 3:21 pm
danny says:
I don’t get how people call Allen best shooter of all time, etc… He’s streaky…he can miss 2,3,4 open shots in a row..
October 19th, 2010 at 3:27 pm
K says:
There is no question in this one. But Ray Allen in his prime was on another level than Manu was.
October 19th, 2010 at 3:34 pm
Alex from AZ says:
Big State BABY!
October 19th, 2010 at 3:40 pm
Ian says:
yeah k
a lower one.
October 19th, 2010 at 5:19 pm
ricky ross says:
manu is the better overall player . but id have to pick ray this guy in his prime.. oh boy
October 19th, 2010 at 5:36 pm
Rav says:
Per 36 minutes, Ray is a better scorer, but Manu has more steals, assists, blocks, rebounds and FTM/FTA. Ray has a better 3PT% and FT% and fewer turnovers, they have the same FG%.
But Manu has never had the pressure of being the 1st option. He’s played fewer minutes, and come off the bench a lot. Thus he’s saved his energy so he can do more and he is able to rack up stats against second-teamers.
Manu is a winner though (though he lucked out landing on the Spurs – if he had been picked according to his talent level he might have ended up on a crap team.
But Ray Allen has one of the sweetest shots ever.
But Manu (nearly) killed a bat by smacking it out the air
But Ray was the lead actor in one of the better basketball movies ever.
I think it’s just not feasible to compare a career sixth man to a career starter like this.
October 19th, 2010 at 5:55 pm
Rick James says:
The question is who’s better now and the answer is
Ginnnnnnnnnnnnoooobbbbbbllllliiii!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ray Allen is not the same!!! Ur boy had 1 good half in the finals 1/14=7.14%. HE HAD GAME but doesn’t anymore. Manu showed he still could play when Tony Parker got injured this year. I just saw Ray Allen he was looking for a screen! LOL
October 19th, 2010 at 6:54 pm
Kingralf says:
A winner on every level he performed vs a guy who is supposed to be the best shooter of all time but has only few great games in the Playoffs?
Most of u are so fucking retarded: wherever is a comparison between players u look at his championships etc at first, but “oh no, this is a non-american player, let’s go the total opposite and argument like total dickheads. Great job, guys.
October 19th, 2010 at 7:47 pm
Sparkyjay23 says:
so Robert H is better than Kobe?
Don’t be that dumbass –
What happens if you switch their situations, Put Manu on the sonics amd Ray on the Spurs – what do you think happens then?
October 20th, 2010 at 12:31 am
Ian says:
kingralf exactly dont even try whenever someone says bron is better than kobe and points out stats the defenders come out with whos the winner thing. why not apply the same here?? this argument is a bit one sided and all the allen supporters only have stats which are inflated because he was the main option on ok to crap teams. this is like comparing reggie to drexler.
sparky
dont be that dumbass one is a role player the other is a superstar we are comparing stars here and yes its all about the rings with stars. whats the point of the game? why isnt ewing on the robinson/shaq/hakeem level in the 90s?? take a guess. and i dont even know what you are talkin about switching places lets see seattle never did shit with allen and he was prob the third best player in his milwaukee days and def the 4th best player on his team now. swith em and the spurs lose to detroit in 05 and to the suns in 07 yup that kinda is what happens. so i can go ahead and switch tmac (orlando days) for kobe and the lakers threepeat or do even better cuz tmac was puttin up better stats gunning for a bad team?? goh with that what if bs.
October 20th, 2010 at 1:01 am
WW says:
I’m from Seattle and a Sonics fan and a fan of Ray Allen. However, when they’ve gone head to head in the playoffs, Manu came out the winner. I think if MG had to carry a team like RA, he could, and would have same numbers. Had Ray Allen played on the 2001 FIBA team or the 2004 Olympics team, Ginobili’s team would have still won.
So, slight nod to Ginobili here. To put up great stats is one thing. To be able to win everywhere you go is quite another.
This was Ray Allen’s best season as a Sonic, and was ended when Ginobili broke down the D and fed Duncan for a layup. Ray missed the 3 that would have won.
http://www.nba.com/playoffs2005/series_sansea.html
October 20th, 2010 at 9:19 am
92021SpurMD says:
1. Terrible argument for Ginobili, Dime couldn’t find a better person to argue for him?
2. When has Allen EVER, on any type of regular, created a shot for himself? Manu, regular.
3. Better passer, defender, rebounder, creator; the only thing he can’t do better is shoot.
4. Agree that if Manu and Allen were switched, The spurs lose to Detroit in the finals. Allen doesn’t have the balls or the will needed to beat a team like that Detroit team.
Allen is a good player, but he’s not on THAT level. He’s a career REGULAR SEASON player. The great, and better, players are defined by their play against the best of the best. Manu plays the best every year, might explain why he’s alot more beat up than Allen… hmmmmmmm….
October 20th, 2010 at 9:20 am
92021SpurMD says:
Oh, and let’s not forget that Manu played better in their head to head matchups in the playoffs.
October 20th, 2010 at 10:10 am
Larry says:
Ray Allen
October 20th, 2010 at 11:15 am
Manu14 says:
Manu hands down!!!
He is (by far) the best all around player + his resumé is much more impressive…
He has won EVERYTHING that can be won at the pro level!!!
He is a better passer, better defender…
Ray Allen is great (and probably a future HOF), but execpt the shooting (probably the best ever), he is just good, not great in all the other areas!
October 20th, 2010 at 5:21 pm
allen says:
the only thing ray allen does better is shoot, and manus a pretty good shooter. ginobilis got him any basically every other category including defense.
ginobili without a doubt