The NBA: Where Trash-Talking Goes To Die
Kevin Garnett (Photo. Gary Land)
Oh how the game has changed. Back in the day, you could clothesline someone and be lauded for your intensity. Back then, you could throw a punch, wind up on SportsCenter and be back on the court the next night. Back in the day, nearly anything was tolerated in the name of competition. Back then, everyone thought the NBA was better.
So how did we reach this point, where players get technicals for animated conversations with each other and guys get suspensions in the playoffs for slapping each other around? How did we go from Xavier McDaniel to Zaza Pachulia? Larry Bird to Hedo Turkoglu? How did we go from competition to opposing players helping each other up? This has been one of the best beginnings to the playoffs in a long time and yet I can’t shake this feeling that it should be better. Say what you want, but know this: the attempts to bury this kid of adrenaline do nothing but make the game more peaceful. The NBA is the only major professional sport that does this; and people wonder why there is this stigma that players in the NBA don’t play hard.
By now, you might have read Player X’s journal entry on trash-talking in the NBA. Some of the highlights include:
When players hold their tongues, the league is boring. And we’ve been quiet too long. I blame all the foreign guys. They don’t like confrontation. I don’t know many who can talk trash, or even try. The refs are at fault too. A lot of the T’s you see called are preemptive; refs hear some noise and blow the whistle before it escalates. If you ask me, they’re trying to take the “black” out of the game. Besides Bird, all the great trash-talkers have been black. We were born talking trash. They want to silence us, but that’s like telling a bunny to stop jumping. The bunny can’t help it.
…and:
Want to get to “The King” and some other prime-time players? Here’s one man’s go-to material: Drop a “you’re riding coattails” on LeBron or remind him he bailed on the Cavs to buy a ring. Mention Dwight Howard‘s J — or lack of one; it never fails to piss him off. Call Kobe a fake Jordan. (Just beware you may get posterized for the rest of the game.) Don’t bother with Tim Duncan; dude can’t hear a thing and never gets rattled. But feel free to remind Tony Parker that “Eva is fine”; wives are over the line, but not exes. Tell Pierce his one ring was all luck. Then have one of your bigger guys step to KG.
If there’s anyone in the world who wants more trash-talking in the NBA, it’s me. I grew up on trash-talk. My favorite basketball memories come from the 1990s, the last hurrah for many of the game’s greatest talkers. When I play, I probably set records for how often I run my mouth. It always drove me, motivated me to go beyond. It helped make it feel okay to be mean. Those are the same reasons most players talk trash. I would bet 80 percent of the game’s greatest trash-talkers did it to push themselves, create some enemy in their head that didn’t necessarily exist in real life. The other 20 percent could probably just never shut up. But we can include them in this too.
Alas, it’s not really up to the players. They don’t make the rules. There’s too much money involved, and thus, they end up wearing the muzzles. You can’t blame them. But you can blame the system, the same system that promotes an NFL where players get into shouting matches after literally every play, the same system where MLB and NHL players often get into fights and bench-clearing brawls. The NBA doesn’t need that stuff. But what’s wrong with a little s&%^-talking? Are league officials truly that afraid that another Malice at the Palace is going to happen? Do they feel that NBA players can’t control themselves and that they, given their stance as elders, need to control these young athletes? The thinking is actually kind of pathetic. There’s no trust at all.
In the article, Player X says most of the technicals players get nowadays are preemptive. The instant two players come face-to-face, or even start jawing at each other, whistles start firing, everyone rushes to break it up and David Stern’s heart starts pounding. Is that really necessary? What is everyone so afraid of? Is society so screwed up that spitting junk is still causing the public to downgrade and destroy the NBA with easily-refurbished stereotypes?
We found out from the AP that last night, Dwight Howard had an interesting exchange with a couple of fans:
Howard came over to the press table to exchange barbs with a couple of trash-talking fans during a break in the third quarter. “You’re the biggest whiner in the league,” one of them said. “You wanna come out here and play me?” Howard responded. “I’m averaging 33 points a game. Just keep drinking your beer.”
Players still have it in them, even someone as nice and personable as Howard. So the NBA needs to stop letting this negatively define them and start using it to better their product. It’ll work. It happens in every other league.
This goes so much deeper than just the surface “gives us more trash-talk.” It speaks to a lot more than just attempting to keep the game clean. But at this point, all I want is some more #$%^-talking.
Does the NBA need more trash-talking?
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April 25th, 2011 at 4:38 pm
daghost says:
It was good for the game. The NBA died when they took away the only way a player can express himself on the court. Those things make the game interesting. Now they have to act like angels and people they are not just to please the crowd or receive a fine from mr.Stern. That’s bull@&#(! Bring back basketball. Bring back the smack talk. Do you know how many ppl tuned in to watch gary payton trash talk as he was giving his opponent the business? Similarly, why do you think Charles Barkley is so famous and the favorite personality figure on TNT? C’mon stern…you are killing the game.
Da ghost has spoken. It must be true.
April 25th, 2011 at 5:08 pm
100k says:
Shit isnt competitive anymore.
April 25th, 2011 at 5:14 pm
Patrick says:
Don’t just bring back trash talking, bring back post play, and defense.
I hear that Dwight Howard is the only legit center in the league and people talking about they would rather build a team around Derrick Rose or CP3.
By taking away hand checking, the necessity of being square to the offensive player to draw a charge, the right of the big man to all the space above his when he jumps, the right of the offensive player to come down and turn and by giving even a 4th full step to what used to be 2.5 steps before a travel, the league has short changed its fans.
The league says that they made these changes because they want to open up the game. How is the game opened up by having Paul Pierce slide under Shawne Williams on the fast break, or having Jason Collins fall down becuase Dwight looked at him in the post. I don’t fault those guys, they are making the smart play, they have to deal with the interpretation of the rules and try to win just like everyone else. People seem to like watching Tony Parker dribble around in the lane and sink the floater, or Rose skate past his defender and get the and one on an insanely athletic finish (where he was barely brushed by the opposing center who went straight up). I would rather watch Shaq or Kemp or Barkley or Dwight or Lebron annihilate the defender before stepping over him with a brief pause to talk trash.
I loved Gary Payton but he wouldn’t have been the glove today. He would have been suspended for talking trash or on the bench in foul trouble for bodying up on the perimeter, or he would have been boring to watch.
I still love the NBA because it is the best athletes in the world playing the game that I love. But this should be a physical game for men, not a choreographed dance for little girls.
April 25th, 2011 at 5:26 pm
panchitoooo says:
@Da Ghost
“The NBA died when they took away the only way a player can express himself on the court. ”
the NBA did not die once they started to control trash talking. if anything the NBA is growing in popularity with dynamic players like Lebron James, Kevin Durant and Derrick Rose.
to say that the only way a player can express themselves is through trash talking is completely untrue. you can express yourself through your game/skills, your leaderships, your agressiveness, through creativity, etc.
April 25th, 2011 at 5:41 pm
panchitoooo says:
@Patrick
dont forget about my boy Andruw Bynum in los angeles, hes a legit center for sure…
i think the NBA and David Stern is committed to making their investments last as long as possible. if that means making the game less physical so that all-stars players can play more games over the span of their careers thus making more money for the league then they’ll do just that.
i wouldnt mind more allowing trash talking as long as it dont end up in a fight and my favorite players suspended for 1 game or more
April 25th, 2011 at 5:43 pm
yoda says:
i’m one of those foreginers and i don’t know what is like in other countries in europe, but where i came from, there is no trash talking for one simple reason: no one likes dudes who talk to much. if someone is trash talking, he would be knocked out and most likely fight would start. here is: if you think you are better, prove it, don’t run your mouth.
April 25th, 2011 at 5:49 pm
north says:
Imagine how many techs Larry Legend would have gotten if the refs were calling the “talking technical” they are today.
April 25th, 2011 at 7:43 pm
LMNOP says:
Zaza would fuck up ANY american NBA player, past or present.
April 25th, 2011 at 8:44 pm
Chainfire says:
smack talking is a “black” thing? lol and moreover talking smack is what black people are born to do? Player X is a moron. Until they find a gene only found in black people that proves smack talk is inherently a “black” thing and that they can do it better then non-blacks this crap is just stereotyping drivel. Many people claim they want to be treated equal regardless of race yet you have idiots who promote positive and negative stereotypes all the time. You can’t express the desire for equality and then attribute that there are behaviors and skills that are specific to race (outside of proven physical differences such as difference in the proportion of fast twitch and slow twitch muscle fibers of the races).
April 25th, 2011 at 10:19 pm
Promoman says:
The thing about trash talkers is that they’re trying covering up a weakness in themselves by trying to talk shit about everyone & everything else. All you have to do is figure their weakness and then kill them. Tim Duncan’s a master of that shit. Look at what he did to Kevin Garnett some years back. That was the worst case of getting shown up since Olajuwon went at David Robinson. As great as KG is, he’s like Moses. In his prime, he can get you in the general area of the Promised Land but you’d better look to someone else or some other people to actually get you in since he couldn’t/can’t do it.
April 26th, 2011 at 2:44 am
flegman says:
wanna trashtalk? that is some lame bullcrap. if you get inspired/motivated/whatever by your trashtalk, then your
game/personality/behavior sucks big time.
In the heat of the game it is ok to trashtalk a bit, but gotta back it up with game.
The referred article says “If you ask me, they’re trying to take the “black” out of the game.”. And which part is the ‘not black’? Basketball fundamentals? Just asking.
April 26th, 2011 at 5:06 am
aut says:
im from europe, and over here on courts we dont trash talk that much, we leave that for before and after the game. i dont see reason why would you want more ingame trash talk when you cant hear any of it…
on court it should be skills
but i agree they went too far with that tehnical shit
btw drazen petrovic was good trash talker…
April 26th, 2011 at 5:33 am
silkysmoke says:
Not trying to be a smart ass here, but I do think trash talk is a “black thing” (disclaimer: I’m not black). I have a limited knowledge of street culture and African American culture, but couldn’t it be argued that trash talk in basketball evolved from “playing the dozens” (Google if you gotta)? I’d guess that’s why even mainstream hoops movies (“White Men”, “He Got Game”, “Above the Rim”, etc.) chose to include talking trash along with the basketball.
With that in mind, Sean Sweeney makes sense. The trash talk will once in awhile escalate into violence, but so will a hard foul. Most instances of trash talk amount to nothing because trash talk is as harmless as “yo momma” jokes (see “dozens”, above). Are the rest of us who believe that trash talk is a first step at an all-out brawl simply misinterpreting what trash talk is?
I’d like to see trash talk allowed.
1) It introduces another dimension to the game: mental toughness. Who gives a crap if Euros or anyone else does not believe in trash talk–you don’t like trash talk, then don’t participate in trash talk. After all, it’s just noise. Trash talk will allow us to see who really IS the cold mofos out there and who lets their emotion get the best of them. If you take it to far and throw a punch, you’re out of there. But at least let them talk…
2) It lets the competitors be competitive. That Lakers game was off the hook. And to me some of the best moments were in the last two minutes of the first half with CP and Kobe going at it. Cp3 talking some ish and seeing Kobe get pissed….You just KNEW Kobe was not going to remain scoreless in the third. THAT’S the kind of passion that comes out of the true players when their pride is at stake–that’s what trash talk brings out. KG and his constant b.s., Joakim to Lebron….Some of the most exciting moments in the game, IMO, begin once players forget about their multi-million dollar salaries and play for pride.
Peace, I gotta get some sleep.
April 26th, 2011 at 5:37 am
egypt says:
The greatest player ever talked more shit than anyone…
The greatest white player ever talked more shit than anyone…
Arguably the greatest player today in Lebron James talks mroe shit than anyone
Arguably the second greatest 2 guard of all time in Kobe talks more shit than anyone…
April 26th, 2011 at 7:02 am
First & Foremost says:
Basketball is just as mental as it is physical. Trash talking is a way to get under your opponents skin. Using the eye test, Karl Malone would punish Dennis Rodman, without question. How in the world does an undersized, scrawny defender like Rodman, OBLITERATE one of the greatest PFs of all time. He mentally chopped him down through trash talking and being slightly homo at times.
@11 – If you can’t stand someone trash talking to you, you are mentally weak.
April 26th, 2011 at 9:07 am
Adrian Zapata says:
What you people fail to see is the NBA is a business. You have employers (owners) & employees (players), we (PAYING fans) don’t want to see a bunch of fake thugs running their mouth. We pay premium money to watch the game of basketball, not watch overpaid fools argue.
April 26th, 2011 at 9:59 am
First & Foremost says:
This could go on forever because trash talking isn’t for everyone. Some paying fans would like a clean game in which both sides shake hands a the final buzzer and go get pancakes after the game. Others would like to watch trash talking battles supported by great play. After the game, one player is fuming and can’t wait to get back out on the court to shut his opponent up. It comes down to your personal preferences.
Which is better: The neighbors knowing your name or them not knowing you did it in the guest bedroom?
April 26th, 2011 at 10:44 am
thrillah says:
Picture yourself playing a pickup game. If everyone is just playing the game having fun and being friendly, that’s just boring. If you have one dude talking smack, the competition just gets much more intense. Everyone just tries that much harder because you don’t want to lose to someone who just put you down or whatever it is that he said. Bottom line is, that they took away a mental aspect of the game by not allowing players to trash talk.
April 26th, 2011 at 12:10 pm
Shot In Ya Face says:
My opinion is Stern “softened” up the league because too much bad stigma and association with hip hop and street culture. Stern doesn’t want “hood” culture in his business. Remember NBA is a business and although a good portion of NBA fans (especially dime readers and real ballers) want old school trash talking and physical play, the majority of fans and part-timers don’t want to see that stuff.
April 26th, 2011 at 1:14 pm
tjakes says:
it sucks that it has to be this way…but the nba is a business. stern had to make a business decision. sponsors were backing out (mostly white) fans were complaining (mostly white) about thugs and hoodlums (aka too many black players) in the league. for example, back in ’06, only in the nba can a player (melo) get suspended for 15+ games without pay for backpedaling and throwing (and missing) on a few punches….stern had no choice though, the media was KILLING melo, calling him a “thug” and “hoodlum”…..even though hockey players fight and baseball players have bench clearing brawls, the media plays the highlights over and over again, laughs and sometimes cheers on this type of stuff all in the name of “tradition”. why do you think the media’s reactions were on completely different ends of the spectrum (*hint* rhymes with “ace” and starts with a “r”)
is it not fair? No, not at all. do i miss the days of barkley jawing back and forth with payton or jordan or bird etc….? of course. but it was necessary for stern to squash any and anything that may be perceived as negative activity for the nba