Smack / Dec 22, 2011 / 2:18 am

Blake Griffin & The Clippers Run Past The Lakers; Isiah Thomas Backs LeBron’s Superteam

Blake Griffin

No Kobe Bryant meant mismatch at times last night in the Clippers’ 108-103 win, their second straight in as many games against their crosstown rivals. It was a barrage of turnovers and highlights that battered the Lakers to the ground in the third quarter. Then it was Blake Griffin that drove a stake into the Lakers’ hearts in the fourth quarter. The next time someone puts Troy Murphy on Blake (30 points, seven assists, six boards), call us. It’s must-see TV. Yet somehow, the Lakers still had a shot at the end, but first DeAndre Jordan had a huge block on Metta World Peace. Then Griffin flopped his way to a charge call on Matt Barnes, securing the win. The Lakers led by as many as 11 in the first half, and were shooting well over 50 percent. But then their little brothers hit them with a 30-8 run dating from the second and into the third, and the game turned into a dunk contest. Just before the half, the game turned on a sequence that started with a Griffin steal. He then led a fast break, pointed to his boy Jordan and threw a perfect lob to about 11 feet where Jordan caught it and smashed. Then on the next possession, Griffin was criminal. He caught the ball in the lane, gave a ball fake and then rose up and probably did damage to the rim with his finish. The third quarter killed the Lakers in both preseason games, and last night they were outscored 30-17 there. The real story behind that collapse were the turnovers. The Lakers finished the night with 21 while the Clips had only six. Andrew Bynum (11-for-15, 26 points, 11 rebounds) didn’t get the ball enough. Steve Blake (20 points on nine shots) didn’t shoot it enough. And then the third quarter turned into a Clipper YouTube highlight tape … Caron Butler has never been a great deep threat, but last year playing with Jason Kidd, he finished with his highest three-point percentage ever. And in the third quarter, he hit three or four corner jumpers from the same exact spot to help open up the game. Always more of a breakdown player than a shooter, if Butler can hit those weak side Js, and he’ll get a lot of them with CP, this offense becomes unstoppable … After an all-time worthy flop by Mo Williams at the end of the third quarter, the announcers made a great point: This Clipper team may have three times the number of flops as dunks. Chauncey, Mo and CP as a backcourt is going to get bad … So Kobe Bryant found out yesterday that he tore the lunotriquetral ligament in his right wrist. Leave it up to Kobe to hurt something that no one had ever even heard of until yesterday (We could also make a joke about his divorce and subsequent broken wrist but we don’t even need to.). The ligament is a band of tissues that connects bones in the wrist. We’ve heard a recovery timetable of anywhere from day-to-day to three or four weeks. If Kobe doesn’t suit up at the beginning of the year, and with Bynum already serving his suspension, the Lakers have to be careful or they will fall four, five, maybe even six games under .500 … Miami destroyed Orlando in South Beach the other night, and after the Magic missed their first 12 shots and then fell behind by 20 in the second quarter, we figured the rout was on again. But even with Dwight Howard (15 points, nine rebounds) on the bench to end the game, Orlando’s bench made a bunch of crazy shots and pulled off a 104-100 win. Big Baby went wild with 13 of his 18 in the third and Jameer Nelson was solid throughout (14 points, 10 assists) and threw a lob from nearly midcourt to Jason Richardson. What was up though with LeBron (27 points) and Quentin Richardson? Those two were getting testy all night, and at one point we thought Q-Rich was ready to throwdown … As Kris Humphries nearly got booed off the floor – unreal what a reality TV show can do to someone – the Knicks and Carmelo Anthony (21 points) beat New Jersey 88-82. Anthony provided the offense, Tyson Chandler was all over the backboards (12 rebounds) and Renaldo Balkman chipped in the highlights with a one-handed facial in the first half … Minnesota isn’t quite ready for primetime, but they did take another step in their 85-84 win in Milwaukee. Without J.J. Barea and Ricky Rubio, the T’Wolves still snuck out of there with a win after Michael Beasley (12 points) made two free throws with 9.1 seconds left. Minnesota trailed for much of the night – at one point in the second half, they were down double digits, but Kevin Love (22 points, 16 rebounds) and co. seem like a different team this year … Keep reading to see why Isiah Thomas is backing LeBron and his decision to go to Miami …

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  • yoda

    k-mart got punked and this will be a long season for lakers. i wonder how long before kobe tries to kill stern or buss jr.

  • BIll

    Common all day!

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7Er5TsQrGg alf (from melmak)

    No issues. No debates. No arguments. Just want to greet everyone here in Smack an advanced Merry Christmas. Hope that all of you have a wonderful and memorable time with your families.

    ———–

    So this is Christmas and what have you done,
    Another year over, a new one just begun.

    And so this is Christmas, I hope you have fun,
    The near and the dear ones, the old and the young.

    A very merry Christmas and a happy New Year
    Let’s hope it’s a good one without any fears.

    And so this is Christmas for weak and for strong,
    The rich and the poor ones, the road is so long.

    And so happy Christmas for black and for white
    For the yellow and red ones let’s stop all the fights.

    A very merry Christmas and a happy New Year
    Let’s hope it’s a good one without any fear.

    And so this is Christmas and what have we done
    Another year over, a new one just begun.

    And so happy Christmas we hope you have fun
    The near and the dear ones, the old and the young.

    A very merry Christmas and a happy New Year
    Let’s hope it’s a good one without any fear.

    War is over if you want it, war is over now.

    — John Lennon

  • http://www.cracked.com/funny-353-kobe-bryant/ Atom

    Of all the Hall of Famers that could’ve picked up Lebron’s cause, I’m sure Zeke is one of the few guys James, is like “thanks, but I’m cool.”

    At this point the Clippers can pretty much fire their mascot because nothing he does off the trampoline is going to beat what Griffen and Jordan do during the games.

  • Jzsmoove

    Starting my day off with the word flop ain’t cool . Just got me agitated something has to be done bout this.
    Y’all haven’t heard of lunotriquetral tissue before ? Something’s wrong with you.

  • Celts Fan

    Thoughts while revelling in being back at the Garden last night:

    The Raps are the softest team I’ve ever seen. Really? Aaron Gray and Andrea as your starting bigs? Jesus, I’ve seen tougher HS teams. Can we just pencil in Andre Drummond for next year? Ya? Cool.

    Jerryd Bayless sucks. I loved the kid at Az. but damn.

    E’twaun Moore may be the steal of the draft. Kid can shoot, play D, and has some hops. How a 4 yr, super productive player from Purdue, a perpetual top-25 team while he was there, slipped to the 2nd rd is beyond me, but I’m fuckin glad he did. This is waaaaaay too early, but he’s got the skills to be Ray’s long-term replacement if he keeps working and developing.

    FAT > WHITE STIFF. Scal was a shining example of why I sometimes hate Boston, but the ovation for Michael Sweetney and Michael Sweetney’s breasts was louder than anything Stiemsersma got despite not being as completely terrible as his haircut would suggest. (He actually has a bit of game, DLeague DPOY last yr I think, if he plays a second this yr, all is lost)

  • http://www.psychodrama.com Chicagorilla

    Can Blake Griffin win the MvP this year? lol, i’m just saying, kid will be all over the place with highlights, and he’ll put up great numbers.

    I’ll make the same statement at the end of last season. Blake Griffin is the best PF in the NBA. I don’t care that he’s young or he’s only been in the NBA for 1 full season (playing wise). That kid is an all-star with a 12th man like motor.
    Sure he can improve his shooting, and shot blocking. But right now, there is no PF in the game i’d take before him. And there is only a handful of players I would take before him overall. Once he gets consistent on that J and can get close to 2 blocks per, he’ll run the NBA hands down no questions asked. there won’t be any debate. Of course health plays the biggest part in that also.

    Oh and Dex Strickland from UNC got “Jiggy with it” on Texas’s Kabango. UNC hasn’t had a dunk like that since Danny Green tea-bagged Kyle Singler. Oh wait, I think Dex tea-bagged Singler too lol. there’s a theme here…

  • K Dizzle

    “Thomas says every great player has tried to move to another team to win a championship at some point in his career …”

    Everytime Isiah opens his mouth, somethin stupid comes out…

    Good showing n effort by my Lakers last night. But 21 turnovers is a bad look. I’m glad Pau is just savin himself for meaningful games cuz no Kobe n no Bynum means dude gonna have to do some heavy lifting…
    Andrew Goudelock, I see you. Kid can stroke…Coulda used him last season

  • http://www.psychodrama.com Chicagorilla

    @Celts fan

    One of the kids i coached this past summer is a cousin of E’Twaun Moore and spent some time working out with him this summer before the draft. He said E’Twuan works…I mean WORKS! He couldn’t believe how much the guy was doing. I also watched Moore during his time at Purdue. I pegged he and Jujuan Johnson (I believe the Celts got him too) as first round picks easy. but this NBA draft was kind of a throw away for most GMs. Many of them picked foreign players that they figured wouldn’t come over right away. Which allowed them to clear some cap space.

    I fully expect Moore, J.Johnson, Tyler Honeycutt, Isiah Thomas, Trey Thompkins, Malcolm Lee, Jon Luer, and Jeremy Tyler to be good-solid players at the very least in the NBA. Especially Johnson, who has hops, length, a nice jumper, and a mean streak. The late 1st and 2nd round of this draft may turn out to last longer in the NBA than the front end.

  • http://www.psychodrama.com Chicagorilla

    @KDizzle

    You think Pau is saving himself? I don’t know, he did try and go hard at Blake and DJ a few times. He just couldn’t match their intensity the entire game (which seems to be Pau’s biggest issue).

    The Lakers actually looked like a good unit at times, when they worked the ball down low. There isn’t really a way of stopping them if Gasol and Bynum get a touch every time down on offense. Add that to the 3pt shooting of Blake, fish, Goudelock, Murphy and the others. and the Lakers team has a good formula.

    But, I don’t think Kobe is having any of that. Now that the Triangle is gone and he is going to be forced back to the perimeter to score expect Kobe’s PPG and turnovers to go up along with his FG attempts, and his FG% will drop. Mike Brown doesn’t know how to space the floor enough to allow Kobe to post.

  • Big Hook

    Maybe should of asked Isiah what he thought about Monta, he could of given the young brother a little advice on how to be more discrete. LOL

    And the Lakers are done, I was watching the game on NBATV, they are slow and can’t defend anybody. Even Mike Brown The Black Grimace, can’t help this teams defense. I’m not a Lakers’ fan but I suggest they tank and try to get a top 10 pick in the loaded draft.

  • LMNOP

    @ Chi, I cant see Blake winning the MVP this year. I think if any clipper wins it this year it would be Chris Paul. Imagine Blake finishes the season with about 25 and 11 boards while Paul finishes with maybe 20 and 12 assists, they’re both gonna be in the same area statistically, but say the clips add about the equivalent of 20 wins to their record, most of that credit is gonna go to Paul and you know MVP voters love to vote for that sort of thing.

  • http://www.psychodrama.com Chicagorilla

    @LMNOP

    Now way Chris Paul puts up 20ppg. He didn’t even do that last year on New Orleans and they actually needed him to score.

    The most impressive thing about Chris Paul’s numbers this year will be his efficiency. I expect something like
    15ppg 10ast 4reb 3stls 50%FG 40%3pt 85%Ft while only having 1 or 2 turnovers per game.

    Is that enough for him to win MVP? Yeah if you look back at Steve Nash’s MVP seasons. but the competition level is for MvP is much higher now.

    For Blake to win MvP his numbers would have to look something like this
    25ppg 12rpg 4apg 2blk 1 stl 55+%FG 70+%FT and the team will have to be top 3 in the NBA.
    It’s really not out of the question, because honestly Blake is capable of MUCH MORE than those numbers. The offense will run through him and he’ll play 36-38mpg. If he stays injury free, things are gonna get ugly for the NBA.

    It would be funny if he does an interview and says the same thing DRose said just to be funny “Why can’t I be the MvP?”
    that would be hilarious.

  • http://slcdunk.com AllThatAmar

    Jazz 3rd stringers held on and beat the Blazers starters last night. LMAO at Nate Mac for going for the win against the hapless jazz 3rd stringers, and then ending up with the loss. Pathetic. About as pathetic as the Jazz in the game in Portland a few days ago.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    Mike Brown better have his team playing a high-low post offense to start the season. Kinda like Coach Pop did with Admiral and Duncan.

    Isiah Thomas is showing the initial stages of Alzeimer’s disease.

  • Ian

    chicagorilla
    because of age id take blake over any other pf but hes not the best pf right now. dirk is the best and i would give the 2nd spot to gasol. this is my ranking for this season not starting a team. just my opinion.

  • Ian

    jay
    bynum and gasol are like the super poor versions of duncan and robinson.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    I was expecting DIME to end today’s SMACK with, “I’m out like Floyd Mayweather”, or at least mention his incarceration.

    Floyd is a fuckin joke. When he fought Corrales (pretty sure it was Corrales) his entrance was some rappers referencing beating women. Before that fight he even made donations to charities for domestic violence to mock him. He put his foot in his mouth this time.

    @Ian
    It doesn’t matter, their best players on the floor are big men. And they are two guys who most teams won’t be able to match up with. What offense do you suggest? A pick-n-roll based offense? Knowing Mike Brown’s history, he just might do that.

  • yourdribbleizcookiez

    So why are cats hating on Kris Humphries? cuz he was smashin kim kardashian? That’s worthy of a quick dap, then everybody keeps it moving, i don’t get it…

  • http://www.psychodrama.com Chicagorilla

    @ian

    I know we had this debate before about Dirk.
    But to me, it’s no question it’s Blake. Here’s why.

    We know he is super-athletic and that puts him in a great advantage already.
    -the kid can dribble better than most SF’s.
    – He can pass the ball very well for a PF and is unselfish (4asst per game as a rookie).
    -His rebounding could be better if he focused more on positioning, but he still gets 12 per game off having a great motor with athleticism.
    -He can shoot. If he was forced to shoot only jumpers he’d still score 15ppg, but he needs to really work on perfecting that 15-20ft jumper sorta like Malone, Barkley, and Amare have. Which opened up their games big time.
    – intangibles. He’s mean. People don’t realize it because they aren’t paying attention, but Blake is an A$$hole. Not quite on the douche-bag level of KG, but he’s not a likable guy if you play on the other team. I think it’s what separates guys like him, Durant, and DRose from the rest of the young guns.

    the last bullet point is the reason why I think he is the best PF and could be the best player in a couple years (or less). If that ever changes about him then it could hurt his legacy.

    don’t get me wrong, I do understand why people make an argument for Dirk (offensive game is the most dynamic), Amare (similar to Griffin overall), and Pau (7ft and skilled). But I think Blake can be much more complete than those guys. Only time will tell though.

  • QQ

    YOOOOO… i know its wayy early to say this, but the clippers look like they could actually win the West this year. They are STACKEDDDD (billups, butler, evans, mo williams, foye, etc….) god damn. I think they have to be the most exciting team to watch hands down. DJ has come a long way. Great conditioning and with all the weapons on the floor, he’s gonna have a field day.

    Ok so how about this – best duo in the L?
    bron/wade
    cp3/blake
    westbrook/durant
    rose/boozer
    did i miss anyone?

    If the bulls got dwight, i think i’d say that would be the best duo in the league. Could y’all imagine that?

    oh and QQ da boss!

  • jdizzle

    @Atom The Clippers have a mascot?

    Drake vs Common? HUH??? I been seeing people saying Common shouldn’t be calling anybody soft since he made Just Wright. SMH clearly they forgot (or just don’t know) that this is the same dude that came at Ice Cube HARD on ”The Bitch In You”.

    Awwww here we go….another Who’s The Best PF In The League debate. I thought we settled this people! Apparently not….

  • QQ

    I forgot
    Dirk/anyone on dallas also
    kobe/gasol or bynum

  • vlad

    l love blake griffin but come on guys stay cool, let him play more then two seasons and we will see, how good he can be, last year as one of the better players on the clippers roster they sucked. so know it is easier for him to step up because of billups, paul, butler. he is on his way, his way is very spectacular sp people are focused on him, especially the american media, some one like tim duncan was a better player in his prime but not the highlight guy. dont get me wrong , i love blakes style but only a championchip count.

  • First & Foremost

    Blake is a mismatch but I say he is in the top 5 right now. He could be the best in the league at some point in time. I’ll holdoff on giving him the crown because he hasn’t put it all together just yet. By that I mean, when has he played a meaningful game? Being mathmatically eliminated by February means you have no pressure to perform.

    When you watch a game you usually come away with, “Damn he’s explosive.” Instead of, “Wow, he put his team on his back and then his nutz on everyone else.”

  • http://www.psychodrama.com Chicagorilla

    @Vlad

    Don’t group me with bandwagon fans if you aren’t on these boards often. Just do a search back to when Blake was in college and you’ll see me posting about how great i thought he would be then. Even going back to the HS all-american games where he (Rose, Love, Harden, and Gordon) got overshadowed by OJ Mayo and Mike Beasley. I was singing his praises then.

    I’ve never been one to randomly jump on a bandwagon. Which is why I list all the reasons I think he’s as good as he is. The kid is really just that good.

    When Jordan came into the NBA, nobody wanted to admit he was the best player by his 3rd year. Only a guy like Larry Bird was willing to say it.
    Same thing with Tim Duncan.

    The only players to get instant recognition as the best at his position recently was Lebron. I’m not really sure why, probably because of the NBA hype machine.

  • Beiber Newz

    Wasn’t it only a matter of time before the clips became relevant? No franchise remains in shambles. The kings had their run in the 2000s.

    After the clips, I expect kemba walker and the bobcats to do big things within the next five years. Biyombo may be the next wallace. And if tyrus thomas had his head on straight in terms of development and staying on the floor(fouls/injury), the process would probably had sped up. Seriously, tyrus thomos is so gifted, why hasn’t he evolved yet?

  • King

    With the “Holy” Caron as the 3rd/4th option this team is gonna be scary good on offense.

    and is it me or does steve blake seem to be scared to shoot sometimes.

  • Big Island

    If I had to take a PF for this season, I am taking Dirk. If I had to pick a guy for the next 5 seasons, Blake. The only thing that worries me about Blake is that he will go to jail for killing someone on the court.

    Chi and Vlad – Only a championship counts Vlad? There is a long list of really good shitty players for you then. Luc Longley and Bill Wennington over Ewing or Dwight for you in the all time draft then. Horace Grant over Barkley and Malone too. Stop it. But I get what you are saying about give it a couple of years. Which brings me to Chicagorilla, You don’t have to defend picking Blake. I think most everyone who isn’t a hater or a dick rider can see that Blake has the tools to be the best PF in the game for the next few years if he stays healthy. It’s a matter of good timing with Duncan, Dirk and KG being past their primes (Dirk has a couple more years maybe), but anyone who thinks Amare is better is high. Blake is a mega Amare. Jordan was the best 2 guard right away because there weren’t any other really good 2 guards at the time. He ended up being the best player in the NBA, but people argued about him and Magic and Bird for awhile because those guys won. Once Jordan won, there was nothing left to criticize.

    jzsmoove – When I saw that Kobe hurt his wrist, I had the same reaction: Oh no! I hope it isn’t his lunotriquetral…

  • http://www.psychodrama.com Chicagorilla

    @Big Is

    I hear you, and I agree. with KG and Timmy on their last legs, and Dirk into his 30’s also, it’s pretty much up in the air.

    I guess FnF brings up a valid argument though when he’s saying Blake hasn’t had to perform on the “big stage” yet. But just looking back at the recent history of great young players stepping up during the playoffs (Lebron, DRose, BJennings) I have a feeling he’ll do even better when its time for the show.

    The only real road block in his way could be David Stern and his rule book. It seems like Stern is intent on eliminating the power of the dominant big man. But as long as he develops his outside shot, that may not be a problem either.

    Now i have to take my daughters bike up to Walmart so they can put it together for me because I don’t have the tools.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    I hate the “only championships count” argument. That’s no indication of how good a player is. That simply shows how good their team is. Stockton, Malone and Barkley must have hundreds of players ahead of them on the all-time list. Jack Haley should be in the Hall because he was on 4 championship teams. Robert Horry must one of the best PFs to ever play the game. That “championships” argument holds even LESS water today with these guys jumping to form their own teams with their friends. If only rings count, why do many people agree that Lebron’s legacy is hurt even if he wins rings with that Heat team? It’s not all about the rings.

  • First & Foremost

    David Stern is not standing in the way of Blake. Donald Sterling is standing in the way. Franchises can remain in shambles. 30+ years as an NBA owner and your team makes it out of the first round ONCE. That is just as bad as hiring a GM for 20+ years and only giving him ONE payraise. Donald Sterling does not deserve this good fortune.

  • NYK

    Has anyone heard monta ellis talk? he cant even form a cogent spoken sentence how can his texts be construed as sexual harassment?

  • Dana Walker

    Yeah if the only championships count thing comes into play then explain Glenn Robinson (Spurs) Ant Walker (Miami) and lame ass Peja Stojackoffvich (Dallas last year). Its not fair to some really great players to always use that arguement, look at Steve Nash, Karl Malone, Reggie Miller, all great but never able to get that ring. I almost feel Payton should be thrown in there, his ring should have an asterik

  • Dana Walker

    @Ian, thats what I said, those two are not as formidable as everyone makes them out to be. Again. I would have traded Bynum 2 of 3 years ago and definitely pulled the trigger on a good deal for Pau. The only guy I thought gave the Lakers that x factor was Odom. Plus he rebounded like a monster for being as lanky as he is. Odom is a whiner off the court but Pau is a bitch on the court, I would rather have the guy who is a bitch off the court.

  • Beiber Newz

    Monta has a southern “T.I. the rapper” sorta sound to his voice. I always liked it. It gave his personality some identity .

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    The Common vs. Drake beef makes me laugh because, well, what do rappers even have to diss each other with anymore?

    The fact that Drake responded with, “Yeah I might sing, but…” says it all. Back in my day (*old man mode*), rappers would’ve been put on blast for singning, starring in romantic comedies, dressing like a nerd, having any affiliation whatsoever with the gay community, “talking White,” having security, not having a criminal record,collaborating with a country or pop artist, moving out of the hood, etc. I’m not saying it wasn’t a close-minded mentality, but it did make for entertaining beef.

    Today? The seal has been broken. There are no limits anymore, and everybody understands it’s about appealing to the widest audience possible and just making your money where you can. All the stuff that ’80s/90s rappers would clown others about, 2011 rappers have made part of the game.

    C-Murder and Lil Boosie showed us that it’s not cute to REALLY be in the streets like that. The fact that Rick Ross got exposed as having been a COP in a former life and he’s STILL one of the giants in the rap game is telling. Ross’ career would have been dead back in the day if people found out he worked for the government. Now it’s no big deal.

  • Beiber Newz

    My penis is very big. And long. And mean in da pussy.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @Dana Walker — Please tell me why Gary Payton’s ring should have an asterisk. He was the 6th man on Miami and often played crunch-time minutes ahead of White Chocolate. In the Finals series against Dallas he hit more than one big-time clutch shot and helped neutralize Jason Terry and Devin Harris and whatever other guards Dallas had. So are you saying only starters should get asterisk-free rings? Only guys who score 20 a night? Only guys who are in the prime of their careers? Get the f*** outta here with that.

  • JBaller

    Sorry Rilla, but BG is not the best PF yet. He is the soon-to-be best and if he stays healthy will be MVP in the future. There are just too many established PFs that are on good teams this year. He’ll have to school the majority of them before he takes the honors. If the clips win 20 more games in this shortened season than last year the credit will go to CP3 and to management for picking up Chauncey and Caron. I think it could happen and Paul could be MVP.

    Glad to see the Knicks front court producing but man, do we need an upgrade in the back court, someone to distribute the ball and run the offense. Melo led the whole friggin team in assists with 3! Not gonna fly against teams that play defense.

  • Ian

    chicago
    ” But I think Blake can be much more complete than those guys. Only time will tell though”

    there you said it yourself CAN BE which means he isnt yet.
    a dirk led team will never miss the playoffs and whoever picks amare over blake is crazy.

    jay

    dont worry i wasnt suggesting anything but like u said brown sucks.
    also i do count championships when comparing superstars not lets say ewing vs longley but i do use it when comparing duncan to malone there it counts.

  • Ian

    jay
    oh and yeah i agree if you jump teams to win one it counts even less.

    dana
    yup super overrated bynum i do think gasol is real good and often underrated but comparing them to duncan and robinson damn. again rings dont count when comparing scrub vs star but star vs star yeah they hold some weight.

  • JBaller

    Everyone has their own system for judging how good a player is and we all prioritize different aspects. It’s essentially an index of factors including stats, post season performance, championships, position played, the role a player has on his team, opposition faced, era in which they played, cultural significance and a host of other factors. No one really ranks players soley by the number of rings or else whar Jay mentioned above would be true. No one thonks Adam Morrison ranks higher than Barkley all time. Even if someone actually created an index of every conceivable factor relating to potential greatness it would not reveal any true ranking because we all value those factors differently.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @Ian — It “counts less”? That doesn’t even make sense. Asnwer this for me: If the “team jumper” contributes to his new team winning a championship, does the ring “count less” for the other guys on the team? Let’s say the Spurs wouldn’t have won the ’05 title without Horry; does that mean the ring counts less for Duncan since he did it with the help of a team jumper?

  • http://www.psychodrama.com Chicagorilla

    @ian

    When talking about “once Blakes game is complete” I was referring to him being the BEST IN THE NBA. Dirk’s has one of the biggest holes in his game right now on the defensive side of the ball, so his game isn’t complete at all. Same goes with Amare. About the most complete 4-man in the NBA is Lamarcus Aldridge, but that’s only slightly. The reason Dirk is considered the best by many is because his offense is so superb. Well I argue that Blakes offense is superb while also being a better passer, rebounder, better playmaker, and better defender than Dirk, Amare, or Aldridge.

    But like i said, that’s just my argument.

    “All the stuff that ’80s/90s rappers would clown others about, 2011 rappers have made part of the game”—AB

    Exactly AB. The Rap game and Hip Hop have split into. They used to be one, but now you have Rappers (Drake) vs Lyricist (Common). There was a time where not writing your own lyrics or being a terrible lyricist would pretty much ruin your career. There was a time when Female gangsta Rapper Boss, was outed as prom queen or Valedictorian of her HS and she instantly lost credibility. Now you got rapper Plies claiming to be a goon while he holds a psychology degree or a nursing degree (can’t remember which one).

    Think back to Eminems 8-Mile final battle. “But I know something about you. You went to Glenbrook, that’s a private school.” and
    “This guys a gangsta? His real names Clarence. And Clarence parents have a real good marriage.”

    Basically stating that dude is a lame for pretending to be gangsta when he comes from a good background.

    Rick Ross is running around claiming to be a “Baaauuuce” when this fool was a Corrections police officer. Shyt drives me crazy.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Double J

    I feel gortat on that finger thing… i broke my pinky before a game once then went out and scored 40

  • beiber newz

    wow 38 wasnt me, but thanks? and weird too whoever would say that for me.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    Oh fuckin SHIT!
    I think this might be the first time i’ve ever read AB telling someone to “Get the F*** outta here!” LOL!

    Re: Drake vs. Common
    The funniest thing about that whole thing is Common said his song “Sweet” was about all guys who sing… he wasn’t talking about anyone specifically. Then Drake steps on stage in Vegas and says, “I might sing, but I ain’t no bitch. If Common got something to say, say it to my face.”
    That’s like Common going to a club and randomly yelling “What’s up you f-in pu$$y!”, and Drake turning around like, “That’s me!”

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    And pleeeeeeease don’t get me started on Rick effing Ross.

    @ Beib
    I guessed that wasn’t you… you don’t use caps.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    @ AB: “The Common vs. Drake beef makes me laugh because, well, what do rappers even have to diss each other with anymore?”
    If you listen to some of these idiots responding to eachother in interviews it’s more or less like, “You are nothing to me. Do you know how much money I have? You borrowed my *insert exotic car here* for your video bcuz you don’t have one.”
    That’s what the beefs nowadays are about. Drake tweeted, “Platinum. THAT’s sweet”, in response to Common’s song titled “Sweet”. If there’s a beef they rich dude always talk about how big his wallet is. WACK! So if it’s all about money, I guess Justin Beiber can talk shit to all of those homos. And MC Celine Dion is hardcore. What ever happened to mic skills? If you got a problem wit someone, lay it down on wax… or polycarbonate(CDs), in today’s terms.

  • http://www.psychodrama.com Chicagorilla

    @Jay

    Yeah I did peep the GTFOH, from AB. lol, we finally got him to join us on the disrespectfuly level. It’s like the great Lauryn Hill said
    “I add a muthaf^cka so you Ig’Nant n!gg@s hear me”

  • http://www.psychodrama.com Chicagorilla

    @Jay

    Your namesake (Jay-Z) is the one who started that Bull$h!t too. Don’t get me wrong, Jigga could always go in on a dude on wax, but then he started throwing that money ish around. Then 50cent followed suit.

    and if Drake thinks that will save then that shows just how “sweet” that lame is.

    The funniest thing about the whole “sweet” song is I never thought it was a diss towards Drake. Honestly, the first person that came to my mind was Kanye West. That fool sings more than anybody. And they are from the same area and f^&ks with the same people. I was sure he was taking a shot at Yeezy. He even claims “You know where I’m from. You know how i get down”.

    But looking at his CD credits (yes i bought the album and its dope), No I.D. is the producer on the album. That’s supposedly Kanyes homey too. And I thought Common was signed to G.O.O.D. Music (he was in the BET cypher with them a year ago) which is Kanye’s label.

  • K Dizzle

    @ Chicagorilla

    Let me rephrase. Pau BeTTER have been savin himself to go off like he did 1st month of last year when he was droppin the 20-10-5 with 2 blks.
    As it was, he put up 13 on 5-7 with 9 boards n 5 dimes yesterday but the shooters need to bring support or a 2-3 start could be comin…

    Lotta shit happenin today. Brook Lopez broke his foot; Stevenson got picked up by the Nets, and Chuckie Hayes’ reps are sayin tests show he got no heart issues…damn, Sac-town got some ‘splainin to do

    @ Austin – post 39 might be the most sense you EVER made.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    Yeah, I guess I get extra defensive when people take shots at Gary Payton.

  • Ian

    austin
    star jumpers not role players and that duncan thing you said doesnt even make sense the ring counts less for horry is anything.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    Gary Payton’s breath smells like feet… *waiting for it*

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    ^ Just messing with you. Lol.

  • Big Island

    I feel a little bit sad, but more proud that AB has stooped to our levels. It’s almost like the first time your little brother gets in a fight. You’re pissed that he did it because you want him to be better than you, but you’re happy that he stood up for himself. *sheds tear*

    The whole ring argument is garbage, but it’s one that always comes up. My buddy is a 49ers fan, and he always says they are the best team because they never lost a super bowl. Um, they didn’t win as many as other teams, and they missed playoffs and stuff all of the time. THEY’VE NEVER LOST A SUPER BOWL!!! It’s basically an argument brought up by people who want a certain guy (championship guy) to be better than another guy (non champ) and that’s their argument. Whatever…

    The complete player argument is garbage too. Sorry Chicagorilla. I get it, and a complete player is great, but most of the time the complete player isn’t as good as someone who is an absolute freak mismatch. Joe Johnson is a more complete player than Kevin Durant. He is just solid all the way around, nice game, all-star player. But Durant is such a freak it doesn’t matter. Dirk can’t stop a guy one on one. It doesn’t matter. He can shoot from anywhere, put the ball on the floor, and he creates such a big problem for the other team’s defense that it doesn’t matter. Derrick Rose isn’t as complete as some point guards, Don’t care, better. Dwight Howard isn’t as complete as Bogut. Don’t care, better. Like I said, I would take Dirk right now, but if I had to sign him or Griffin for 5 years, I am signing Blake.

    While I’m at it, the big game thing is garbage as well. Some players just aren’t the guys who have the ball in their hands all of the time. Blake Griffin needs someone to give him the ball or he has to get it off of the glass. He’ll get 8 or 10 off of hustle, but then the guards need to feed him. You can support any argument with numbers. Dwight Howard is the best because he scores a ton, especially in the playoffs, he carried that team. Or is it Dwight’s playoff numbers were nuts because everyone knows he can’t win a game for you so you just let him get 40 and slow everyone else down. Shaq, Jordan, and, oh god, I can’t believe I am going to say this, Kobe, would just kill you. It didn’t matter how many people you threw at Shaq, he would kill you. Jordan killed you. Kobe killed you. Regardless of what you did, they killed you. They all gave you whatever they wanted to no matter how many different ways you tried to stop them. Dirk came through in the clutch last season, but Miami could have slowed him down with some triple teams. Dwight doesn’t even get double teamed. So I can argue he is a beast and nobody stopped him, look at the numbers. Or I can argue that he got those numbers because nobody cared to double him because you can live with him getting those numbers.

    We’re all slightly above retarded levels here. Most of us have played at a decent level. You know what’s good and what isn’t. All of the crap we use to support our arguments is simple because we like or hate one of the guys in the discussion. That’s it. If you think LMA is better than Dirk, you just hate on Dirk or love LMA. If you think Griffin isn’t a top 5 PF right now, you just hate on Griffin.

  • JBaller

    So Sacto voided Chuck Hayes’ too big contract because of an ekg reading, then he was declared healthy and cleared to play. That kind of sounds like Sacto just screwed him out of his contact. Then he said he’d like to return to play for the Kings. WTF?

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @Ian — Let me try to explain it again. You said that a championship “counts less” is a (star) player has to jump to another team to get it. Glen Rice going to L.A., Gary Payton going to Miami, Shaq trying to get rings with Cleveland and Boston, those are the guys I assume you’re referring to because they left the teams they were trying to LEAD to a title to take on a supporting role while another player led the way.

    So I’m asking you this: If those rings “count less” for the Glen Rices and GPs of the world, shouldn’t they also “count less” for their teammates? After all, the teammates benefited from the contributions of Rice, GP, etc.

  • vlad

    i mean for a player like blake with all his tools and a lot of dollars commin´the only thing for him ist getting rings.for a player like bron, dirk, kg,dwight, ….. its the most important thing to reach.i see blake as a top ten overall player now and as the top talent in the nba.period.nobody is that strong, fast and athletik. perfekt balance for a pf.so if he can improve his postmoves, and we saw some sick hakeem moves against the lakers he will be the best!

  • Ian

    let me say it again those are role players whi gives a shit about them (role players when they won cuz those 2 were awesome in their primes)

  • http://www.psychodrama.com Chicagorilla

    @Ian

    So lets compare role players.

    Is Robert Horry better than…lets say Charles Oakley because he has more rings?

    Is Steve Kerr better than Craig Ehlo because he has more rings?

    Is Michael Cooper better than Kendall Gill because he has 5 rings to Kendalls zero?

    Would Oakley, Ehlo, and Gill not be able to fill in the roles/numbers that Horry, Kerr, and Cooper filled in for their teams but better?

    See, your thought process here is flawed. Championships are won by teams filled some combination of great players, coaches, chemistry, or management. Sometimes all of the above.
    But very rarely, is ONE PLAYER, the single reason his team has won the championship. In most cases, you can replace that superstar with another superstar and that team would still win the Chip.

    Put Kevin Garnett or Chris Webber on the Spurs with David Robinson and they still win the Chip without a doubt.

    Put Vince Carter or T-Mac on the Lakers with Shaq and they win the chip no doubt.

    Switch Magic Johnson with John Stockton on those 80’s Lakers teams and I guarantee they still win some championships.

    Put Wilt Chamberlin on the Celtics instead of Russell, and Wilt would have two hands full of rings too.

    To me, there are only a few players who are the sole responsibility for their team winning the chip and no other star would’ve been able to duplicate their dominance on their team.

    –Hakeem’s back to back chips in 94/95.
    –Jordans two-3peats.
    –Wilt Chamberlins 67′ Sixers.

    Any other championship team you can argue would have won while swapping superstars of similar skill. These three guys were so unique to their teams success (and i’m going by watching the games except Wilts) at that point in their era, that their teams were built perfectly to support their talents.

    In Wilt’s case, he had to battle those great Celtic teams that were nearly impossible to beat. He was without question the better player between he and Russell. Russell just happen to have fell into a much….MUCH BETTER situation than Wilt. Wilt still managed to win one ring in that time span and get another later.

    Does that mean Russell is > Wilt? I doubt anyone would say that.

  • First & Foremost

    @AB, Common vs. Drake is a bit silly. But Drake isn’t doing anything that is groundbreaking or new. People act like 50 cent didn’t go from making Wanksta to various love songs. People act like Ja Rule didn’t go from doing whatever it was he did to harmonizing. People act like Nelly didn’t do Country Grammar to whatever the double disc album he put out. LL went from “I’m Bad” to “I Need Love”.

    The name of the game is selling records. N****s bootleg shit to no end. Women will buy an album twice just to give the 2nd one as a gift to themselves.

  • http://www.psychodrama.com Chicagorilla

    @Big Is

    I totally disagree.
    If the complete player is BS, then why does every player that wants to get better try to work on all parts of their game? No one (other than Dirk’s a$$ lol) goes into the off season and says “I want to get better at the things i’m already great at”. That would be dumb. Unless your game is complete.

    If we go by your argument that freak offensive players are better than complete players that means Dominique Wilkins is better than Larry Bird and Dr. J right?
    Or that Andrea Bargani is better than Andrew Bynum because he is more of an offensive mis-match?

    That’s complete BS.

    Dirk is one demensional. He’s 30+yrs old so we know he ain’t gonna change anytime soon. Why does this work for him? Well for one, it didn’t work very well up until last year. But it worked last year because the team and coach around him was the perfect fit for his skill set. Dirk may have been terrible at defense, but Tyson Chandler, Haywood, Marion, Butler, Kidd, Stevenson are all good-great defenders. Dirk is a decent rebounder, but because he shoots so many fallaway jumpers he’s never in position to help his team get offensive rebounds. The Mavericks GM addressed that perfectly by not only adding Tyson Chandler to attack the boards, but two of the best rebounders at their positions (PG/SF) ever in Jason Kidd and Shawn Marion. Near Genius pick ups considering that their talents complement Dirk so well.

    If Dirk was surrounded with guys of his same skill set (Andrea Bargani at center, Mike Dunleavy at SF, Steve Nash at PG) there is no way his team could win the championship because Dirks game itself isn’t complete enough.

    Just look back on history, whenever someone talks about the best players ever at whatever position, those guys have multiple skill sets that seperate them from others.
    Magic, Bird, Jordan, Zeke, J.West,Dr. J, Hakeem, Ewing, Shaq, Admiral, Barkley, Malone…the list goes on an on.

    when Derrick Coleman first entered the NBA, guys like Charles Barkley immediately declared that he could end up being the best PF ever. Why? Because the guy could do everything they could do, but better. Coleman had the potiential to avg 25ppg 12reb 7apg 2blk 2stl and pretty much do everything from the PF position.
    Unfortunately he was lazy.

    Then you say that “Big Game” situations don’t matter because big guys need someone to give them the ball. but EVERYBODY needs someone to pass them the ball. It’s a 5 man sport. And part of being a great player is being able to willingly draw the attention of double teams then hit the open player. Big guys aren’t always expected to take the last shot only because they usually can’t shoot from far out or hit FTs.
    Take a guy like Yao Ming. If your team needs a basket and your coach can’t find a way to get the ball to him then he needs to be fired. Guys like Yao, Dirk, KG, Duncan, Barkley, Malone, Webber, Kareem, Hakeem, Ewing, DRob were all big guys who could create/hit a shot from anywhere inside the 3pt line. So there is no reason to not give them the ball.
    Another reason your argument is flawed is because it’s actually harder for 6’6 and lower guys to get a shot off in traffic. It’s a much tougher shot and from usually further away. If Kobe and Dirk had the same clutch tendencies, why would you go to Kobe instead of Dirk on the inbounds play? Dirk is 7ft and has a better chance of getting a clean look. Kobe will have to dribble, pump fake, and fade away before he gets the shot off.

  • Big Island

    Chicagorilla – Maybe I wrote it wrong, or maybe you misunderstand my argument on the all around player. Someone who does a ton of things great is obviously better than a guy who does one thing great. But a guy who does one thing great is better than someone who does everything well. If you rated everything on a scale of 1-10, 10 being best, I would take a guy with 10’s offensively and 5’s on defense over a guy who had all 7’s and 8’s. The 7 and 8 guy is better all around, but the 10’s make all the difference. If a guy is all 10’s, then obviously it’s better. But a guy like Dirk who is a 10 on offense, maybe a 7 on the glass, and a 5 on defense is better than a guy like LMA who is a 7 on everything. And don’t ever use Coleman to support an argument on anything other than “this is what happens if you don’t work hard”.

    A taller guy gets the shot off better. But getting to the shot is easier for a small guy. The shot is the last thing that happens, you know that. You have played/coached enough to know better than that. It’s almost as bad as the “if I were as tall as you” crap short guys say. It’s easier to rip a tall guy because the ball has to travel 4 feet from the ground to his hand. They are easier to stay with on screens. So yeah, Rose can’t shoot over the same things Dirk can, but Dirk can’t get to that shot as easy as Rose. So to answer your question, for an inbounds play, it depends on how much time is left. A lob play, I go to Dwight Howard. Catch and shoot, I go to Dirk. Eight seconds left on the clock, Kobe gets it every single time and twice on Sundays. Why? Because Kobe, the smaller guy, can make the moves to get an open look better than a big guy. Half a second, Dwight jumps higher, go for the dunk. One second, Dirk can catch and shoot. It all depends on the situation.

    Not one guy you mentioned on your list brought the ball up for his team. They had to have plays run for them. Dirk, KG, Duncan, Kareem, Hakeem, and Robinson won rings. Yao, Barkley, Malone, Webber and Ewing didn’t. Malone was always labeled a choker because he couldn’t beat Jordan? Dirk was a choker until last year? Webber never stepped up to beat LA? It’s all crap. Ewing could never get a ring. That is all crap that sticks with them, and it isn’t all on their shoulders. They need to have someone get the ball in a position to score. They can create their own shots, but I’d let Ewing get it on the wing all day. Or Malone at the top of the key. Or Robinson on the block, back to the basket. Or Webber at the wing. Or Dirk on the block. They all have spots where they are effective, or more effective, or unstoppable. Other guys have to get those guys the ball, then get out of the way. All I am saying is that there are more things that can cause a “bad” game for one of them than there are for someone like Lebron, who calls his own number when he brings the ball up the floor.

  • beiber newz

    does anyone think it’s weird that deshawn stevenson got signed by the nets even after jay-z (part owner of the nets) made a diss song about dude defending lebron? somebody blow the whistle on this one!

  • control

    Ian

    Manu was a role player for his championships on the Spurs…