Smack / Jan 13, 2012 / 3:04 am

Dwight Howard Rewrites History; Kyrie Irving Wins His Duel With Steve Nash

Dwight Howard

Dwight Howard

Just put Dwight on the line, right? That was Mark Jackson‘s strategy on Thursday against Orlando and it seemed good for a while against the career 59 percent free-throw shooter. The Magic didn’t lead through the first quarter after going wire-to-wire against Portland in its own building the night before. Well, Howard’s not exactly Mark Price from the stripe but if you send a guy there an NBA-record 39 times (he made 21), he’s going to get his, anyway, and score with a stopped clock to help a comeback, too. That’s how Orlando held off Golden State, 117-109. Ryan Anderson made big buckets late and there was even a Jason Richardson sighting and Big Baby Davis took a huge charge in the final minutes, but the Big Disgruntled turned in a monster night, with 45 points and 23 rebounds. If you’re scoring at home, it’s the first 40/20 game since Shaq went for 48 and 20 on March 21, 2003. Golden State looked like its strategy wore themselves down (they shot 36 fewer free throws than Orlando, after all) and took away the momentum they still had after beating Miami in overtime two nights before. With Dorell Wright out and Nate Robinson (14 points) not as electric, and even with Monta Ellis (30 points, 11 assists) going off, the Oracle crowd looked affected too. If you’re a basketball fan in general, you know how good that building can get. So could Hack-A-Dwight be a new trend? It might be worth it, because only Wilt Chamberlain has missed as many free throws in a game as Howard did (By the way, we feel like there needs to be a different word to describe Dwight Howard’s blocks. He doesn’t only send them back or stuff them. It’s something more.). It’s just the whole concept of Dwight Howard taking 30-plus free throws in a game just seems wrong. It’d be like quarterbacks in the NFL throwing 50 passes a game and halfway decent signal-callers throwing up stat lines like 41 touchdowns and 15 interceptions. Wait, that already happened? Oh … Where did all those people go who said they wouldn’t give up Andrew Bynum anymore for Howard? When you can put up 45 and 23 and STILL leave 18 free throws on the table, Bynum ain’t touching that … Isn’t it great when things just work out? If you had asked us earlier this year when Nate Robinson was pissed off in OKC and the Thunder were trying to drop him like loose change, we would’ve said the perfect home was out in the Bay. Now he’s there balling, or at least getting PT … New York got the blues and then some in Memphis. It was like a real-life version of the video for New York, New York with Tony Allen, Rudy Gay and Marc Gasol playing the roles of Daz, Kurupt and Snoop. The Knicks put up just 38 in the first half, and then Carmelo Anthony (14 points) left in the third quarter with a sprained right ankle that knocked him out the rest of the game (After he left with an injured left wrist earlier.). You could almost see the emotion drain out of Mike D’Antoni‘s face, but maybe it’s to be expected in New York’s fifth game since Jan. 6. Apparently Iman Shumpert took the bad signs of the Knicks’ first half and decided to try and fix it himself, shooting 3-of-15 in the first 24. We know D’Antoni lets his players shoot in the flow but Shumpert’s first half might have even tested his coach’s limits. Coming into the night, Brandon Knight and Kyrie Irving had taken the most attempts by a rookie at 19 (Shumpert finished 5-for-20) this year. Say what you want in this compressed season, because it comes after a four-game winning streak, but it was too hard for some Knicks observers to stomach — and then it got worse. We aren’t sure we’ve ever seen defense like we saw in the third. It was like the Grizz blindfolded the Knicks and told them they had to call out wherever they were going before they did it. Every other play was a steal, a deflection, Tony Allen backing up what we said about him by ripping somebody or Rudy Gay (26 points) catching Tyson Chandler‘s dunk. The Knicks were 5-for-19 from the floor in the third, and then during an eight-minute stretch of the fourth quarter, they went 3-of-18 … Bill Walker and O.J. Mayo combined for 32 points off the bench. If we had told you five years ago, they’d be coming off the pine in the NBA and it’d be a surprise when they put up numbers like these, you might’ve thought we were high. Even Mayo scoring 18 last night off the bench was a little eye-opening. We wonder what they were saying to each other last night: “Yo man, did you ever believe we’d one day be backing up Tony Allen and Landry Fields?” … A sign it’s been a tough season so far in Detroit: Franchise rock Tayshaun Prince air-balled an open jumper from the baseline that would have pulled the Pistons within one with 45 seconds remaining against Milwaukee. Air ballBrandon Jennings (27 points) finally learned. After missing late shot after late shot in the last few weeks, he passed off on a shot to Stephen Jackson (25 points). Jack found Jon Leuer (15 points), who punctuated his “What’s my name?” performance with a game-deciding dunk … Does Greg Monroe have a shot at the All-Star Game? He dominated Andrew Bogut last night (32 points, 16 rebounds)… While Dwight Howard was busy setting up camp at the charity stripe, the Bucks and Pistons combined to hit all 41 of their free throwsKeep reading to hear about the battle of the point guards out West …

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  • control

    I have to apologize to everyone who reads these comments for being the first guy to trigger that one lunatic, who completely destroyed the smack yesterday with his bullshit, and get him to lose what little bit he had of his damn mind. I seen him, seen the retarded name, poorly thought out opinions and meth addict-like spam he spewed, and thought it would be fun to bring his deficiencies to his attention. I really didn’t think that fool would lose his damn mind and get this much out of hand. For that, I apologize to everyone who likes to read and debate a good basketball discussion, and I hope that we can get things back on track and cut out the fucking bullshit.

    So there is no mistake, this wasn’t an apology to that poor lil’ mindless kid. That kid can go fuck himself, and after this post is done, I hope I never do anything again that will make him think of posting here.

    Ok! That being said, holy shit that was a crazy, but boring game GSW played. Fuck the charge call though, and fuck Glenn Davis…

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7Er5TsQrGg alf (from melmak)

    It was disgusting what I have to read yesterday. I have been loyal to Dime for several years and yesterday was probably the lowest point in the comments section. That was why I never bothered to post.

    We could never stop anyone from posting here though. So, raise your hands if you are with me in ignoring that person completely.

    @ control

    No need to apologize. I know were you are coming from.

    Back to basketball. If Dwight Howard still wants out of Orlando, why not trade him to Miami for LeBron James? Who would say no? ESPN Trade Machine is down temporarily so I do not know if its a match cap wise.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9RJbLV98fI Showtime

    So, is it too soon to call for Mark Jackson’s head? I mean, I don’t care about the Dubs but no one wants to see anyone let alone Dwight shoot 39 free throws

  • Ghostzilla

    Mark Jackson pulled the same tactic against LAC earlier this year, playing hack-a-Jordan (DeAndre). Not quite sure why he does it so early (1st half).

    Has anybody started a Free Nash campaign yet? It kills me to see that guy playing with so many non-factors. Somehow he can still do what he does at age 38; PHX PPPPPLLLLLLEEEAAAAASSSSEEE trade the man to a decent team, time to rebuild anyway.

    Anyone else think Rondo got dogged by not being invited to the Team USA tryouts? Hopefully he carries it with him the rest of the season and uses it as motivation.

    I’m thinking about signing up for NBA League Pass, does anyone know how the quality of the streaming games on broadband is? I hear it’s pretty choppy and frustrating to watch. Has this been the case for you?


    hahahahaha, i just had to go and read yesterdays comments, that shit is just weird. i kinda feel sorry for the crazy bastard.

    Anyways, does anyone wanna swap teams?? any longtime Clippers fans wanna be a Knicks fan? Blazers fans? Bulls? Hell, ill take anything right now just so i don’t have to sit and watch their inept backcourt and depressingly lazy defense anymore.
    They must be the most infuriating team to watch in the entire NBA. On offense the guards completely ignore Amare and Melo, two of the best finishers in the game, if either of them want a shot they have to go away from where they’re effective and go create for themselves. it’s fucking stupid. And shumps, we love your energy, but you cant shoot, so stop it, no one wants a 6’5 josh smith.

    Then there is the defense. i don’t think i need to say anything, but poor old tyson chandler, he is pretty much all alone out there, shumpert shows some energy and hustle, but watching them all get completely lost on every single screen is like watching a dog get confused by its owner pretending to throw a tennis ball. its a sad sight.

    so yeah, anyone interested in being a knicks fan?

  • beiber newz

    I find it hilarious how for months ppl have been saying ignore somebody yet bring that somebody up directly and indirectly. You guys must not grasp what ignoring means. It is pretending that person does not exist. So even if you do not address the guy by name, you are still taking time from your life when you write “that fool”. You sound like rappers who are scared to say another rapper’s name in a beef song. Either leave it alone or man up.

    The knicks game was brutal to watch, I came in around the start of the second, but I must say, for all the bad talk about the knicks defense, they still kept a young griz team under 100 points. With tyson on the bench too. Can’t say I’m proud, but I can say it says something about the team’s improved defense.

  • Bosh

    For everyday we get a smack without fucked up comments like yesterday, I will donate $1 to feed the hungry. I’d donate more, but I’d go hungry myself. So every time someone posts something fucked up, you are taking food from hungry people’s mouths

    Anyway, @ alf, I don’t think Miami needs that trade. Have you seen lebrons number this season? So they lost a couple an he missed a few clutch free throws.. He’s still killing it. Miami are weak in C, but so is just about every other team.


  • beiber newz

    And another thing…..
    All you who are expressing depression from someone you dislike on this site, do you think he feels bad? Like do you think as the person you hate reads how annoyed you are, that he feels guilt?
    If anything, especially if he hates you, that individual will feel like he is winning.
    He will feel like he is getting to you.
    The fact that you insult him let’s the person know he is doing his job.
    He is making your life miserable.
    Why give him that satisfaction of knowing that?
    Why even write anything about him? That’s a waste of your time, not his.
    Here’s some advice, pretend like he doesn’t get under your skin, that way, he won’t enjoy reading how miserable you sound when you write apologies to the people on dime. It give that person joy knowing you are not having a good time.
    Why haven’t you guys grasped that concept.
    Do you think he is here to make friends?
    Like honestly, do most of you here feel like you have “friends” ?
    This is the interent. You’re probably not going to meet anyone of these people here.
    Do you think that guy you hating on feels any worse than he did before he discovered this site?
    I don’t know, you people seem to have a weird psyche. Don’t put acceptance on a pedestal. You don’t need to make virtual friends.
    Those people won’t help get you a job.
    They won’t come to your wedding.
    No one here is able to buy you a beer.
    Just stop making him the focus of your life and maybe you won’t notice him.

    Take this lesson, and move on with your depression. Life goes on…

  • Bosh

    For everyday we get a smack without fucked up comments like yesterday, I will donate $1 to feed the hungry. I’d donate more, but I’d go hungry myself. So every time someone posts something fucked up, you are taking food from hungry people’s mouths

    Anyway, @ alf, I don’t think Miami needs that trade. Have you seen lebrons number this season? So they lost a couple and he missed a few clutch free throws.. He’s still killing it. Miami are weak in C, but so is just about every other team.

    Ghostzilla, I’ve watched it before and had it so bad it was unwatchable, but I had a really bad connection. If I knew anything about IT I’d tell ya what my connection was but all I know was that it used the internet somehow.

    39 free throws is ridiculous. That would have bored the shit out of me.

  • Skeeter McGee

    Bynum will never touch that because he’s the 3rd option on his team, while Dwight can jack as often as he wants. Just saying…

  • Bosh

    Stupid sensitive iPad hit the submit button early. I need a dialing wand, my fingers are too fat

  • First & Foremost

    Mark Jackson had the right idea, if the game was played in Orlando. GS is built on excitement and intentionally slowing the game down does not help his team. Not like they were getting tons of fastbreak opportunities off of missed free throws. With Bynum being a better free throw shooter, if given the opportunities he could have a similar stat line.

    You’ve never seen defense like that? Didn’t Maimi hold someone to 1 fg in a quarter.

  • Bear

    My god!!! I read smack early yesterday, so missed all those comments after. Crazy sh1t…………

    Please just real ball talk today huh fellas?

    If Greg Monroe keeps playing like this, i may change from Spencer Hawes to him for the coaches to take to Orlando. Mind you Big Boris is still playing nice for the bobcats (Big Boris sounds like he should be a russian bear wrestler not a overweight french baller).

    Monta BETTER get to the allstar this year, he is doing everything for the warriors.

    It’s a shame about Horford, hopefully JJ will stop counting his cash for a few months and step up though.

    So far i’m most surprised this season about Melo’s passing, Spencer Hawes overall improvement, Metta’s fall off, Al Harrington’s overall game, Dwight trade rumours happening everyday and Kobe playing that good with his injuries.

    Most disappointing are John Wall, Demar Derozen and maybe Vinny Dell negro still having a head coaching job

  • KL

    All things aside. Anyone else hear Shaq drop the F bomb on TNT. It was off camera, but Shaqs voice is very disquishable.

  • beiber newz

    As a laler fan, I think bynum for dwight would be cool. Even tho I think bynum is looking like he gonna go on a tear for the rest of his career, I think dwight is the better fit alongside kobe.

    You don’t really have to run plays for him because he gets his by rebounding and overpowering people. Dwight is mainly a better fit cuz his defense is amazing and I give him the edge on that one.

    Dwight is an alley oop specialist. so I think he and kobe are a match made in heaven because I feel kb is more willing to throw the lob to a freak athlete.

    Bynum is the type you need to run plays for and he fits well as a first option in orlando because of that. I will feel bad seeing him go, but I won’t lose any sleep if he stays in LA because he has proven himself.

    All in all, it feels good to be a laker fan because of the sheer options we have. Not many teams have the assets to get a dwight (raptors) so I will feel safe knowing bynum is on the rise and kobe is still playing effectively like he is 27.

    Sky is the limit.

  • beiber newz

    I think monta ellis has better pg skills than rose. Passing wise, monta is a notch ahead of rose. If monta was forced to play pg for the rest of his career, his assists totals would reflect that. He is locked in at sg so he don’t focus on dishing to much. If rose had to play the two, I think he’d get torched on d as well. Rose is still a great player tho. I am giving more praise to ellis than I am bashing rose, but I don’t want to sound like I am bashing rose because he gets the job done regardless. I just wanted to compare ellis to an already establish pg who is elite. Ellis is a natural scorer first but his passing skills get overlooked. He aint flashy wit it, but he can rack em up when he gets in passing mode.

  • Lee

    Does anyone else feel flopping has ruined the blocked shot? Guys use to try and go for the block, but now they just have to stand there and it’s forcing a turnover. I miss the games when guys were getting close to 10 blocks, seems like forever since someone has had a dominant shot blocking game.

  • beiber newz

    It’s because guys are becoming more athletic this generation so in order to prevent guys from coming in the lane and dunking all willy-nilly every play, guys survive in the nba by using their body as a shield. It aint the glamorous thing, but the smart thing if guys like fisher and kurt thomas want to keep their jobs at their age. You’d do the same…. But I hate charges but I understand y guys do it, so I don’t hate too much on it.

  • First & Foremost

    @Lee, I don’t think flopping is the main culprit in decreased block averages. I think more people playing above the rim has played a bigger role. Way back when, you didn’t have people constantly going for reverses or everytime they left the floor they were going to double clutch the ball. You were taught to go up strong. The problem was that the other guy was going up stronger.

    There was a time refs would not award a guy a foul for double pumping, now if any body contact is made in the air you’ll get a whistle. As a defender, if I’m going to be called for a foul for challenging the shot, I’ll take my chances beating him to the spot. As good as Derrick Rose is at jumping and contorting his body, blocking the shot is hard. If I can beat him to the spot and make it look like he is running me over, then I’ve now made a “great” decision.

  • First & Foremost

    Ivan Johnson does seem like a guy who would foul out in a blowout win for his team.

  • deeds

    Dime you are right, we do need a name to describe what Dwight’s blocks are. just so that we can properly measure how many possessions he wastes his team on a given night. Seriously, how many times a game does Dwight swat a ball 20 feet out of bounds when he could easily grab the ball or tip it to a teammate. I don’t know how Bill Russell can watch one of his games without storming the court and bitch slapping some common sense into that immature fools head. I’m not sure if it is bad coaching, or maybe Dwight just has a really low basketball IQ and will never be able to grasp that skill, but it pains me to watch him sometimes.

    Oh and watching Shumpert last night in the first half was one of the poorest performances of basketball I have ever seen in my life. As a fan of the fundamentals of the game that made me sick. I loved hearing Reggie and the rest of the commentary crew openly mock him. They were pretty hard on him and honestly, they should have gone harder. What a disgrace. Diantoni should have literally been fired at halftime for allowing that to happen. Amare and Melo were also exposed for having 0 leadership qualities. How does anyone allow that to happen? It boggles my mind

  • Bilal

    Duel with Steve Nash? Really Dime? Dude is 15yrs older and he still dropped 16 and 15. But then they have to make a big deal when their boy Kyrie plays well.

    Dwight is a beast!

  • Lee

    I understand that taking a charge is a great play but I feel the refs calling it has almost made one of the most exciting plays in basketball extinct.

    We don’t play the charge rule at the gym where I play, and guys get much better at timing the block and defending the rim because of it.

  • Skeeter McGee


    I have always thought the same thing regarding Dwight’s blocks. Why not just scoop that bitch up and chuck it out on the break rather than swat it at David Stern’s rat-face-ass in the crowd?

    Honestly, the only reason I could see Laker-land trading away Bynum for Dwight is due to health concerns with Drew. With the knees being relatively unstable, and injury concerns keeping him on the sidelines in the past, I can see why LA would want to pull the trigger for Dwight. Other than that, what exactly has Dwight done to make you think Bynum isn’t more than capable of replicating that (if completely healthy, of course)?

    Overall, if you look at the numbers before Dwight’s monster game last night, Bynum and Dwight were almost identical for stat-lines. The only difference is that Dwight is getting more opportunities (and double teams, to his credit) whereas Bynum is basically getting far fewer looks and more scrap points off 2nd chance opportunities, hustle plays, etc., w/ Kobe and Pau taking the Kings’ shares of shots.

  • Reg

    Well, no big surprise with this one. The only surprise was how ugly it was. But this was pretty much expected when NY started squaring off against good teams, after not being able to handle business properly against teams that they were supposed to beat. And the offense was about as dysfunctional as it’s been all season. And if the Knicks don’t find a legitimate NBA point guard sometime soon, they won’t have to worry about Baron Davis coming back (the same Baron Davis who mentally retired about 3 years ago), because the season will be over long before he even sets foot on the court. I mean this is the way the Knicks will keep running the offense, till late February when he’s due back?

  • trollne1

    @JAY & CG
    McGee said that if he plays for another country in the Olympics, he said that Philippines is a definite possibility. And PH management seems hellbent on bringing him over.

    As much as I want Nash to win a championship before retiring, I don’t mind him finishing his career in PHX. Instead of joining the FREE NASH bandwagon, I’m hoping that PHX ownership end their cross-cutting mode and hope that management is savvy enough to steal a disgruntled star like D-Ho (LOL) or Josh Smith or even Blatche would be a huge improvement over anyone in the Suns’ front court. I’m looking at the Suns’ roster right now and it’s depressing the hell out of me, and I’m not even a Suns fan. I think Nash could still play until he’s 40 and still be effective a la Stockton. He’s playing under 30 minutes per game this season and still averaging a double double.

    Anyway, not sure if Mark Jackson is being old school or just stupid. First, it was hack-a-Jordan, now he’s pulling out hack-a-Howard? He might as well teach Monta how to shimmy while he’s stuck from 10 years ago.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    @DIME: “When you can put up 45 and 23 and STILL leave 18 free throws on the table, Bynum ain’t touching that”
    – If I hacked McCauley Culkin all game and sent him to the line as much as Mark Jackson’s team did, Culkin would drop 40 and 4. Good look on Dwight, but that was gift wrapped. If he did the same thing to Bynum, Dime doesn’t think he could do it either?? Oh… kay…..

    *raising my hand*

    Alf’s right. No need to apologize. We understand.

    Mark Jackson should get the paddle for intentionally sending ANYBODY to the line that many times. He’s a newbie coach though, so he kinda gets a pass. Let’s hope he learns his lesson.

    You right, Nash has got to be moved. I feel so bad for the guy, but I have a feeling he’ll want to stick it out with the other fossils on that roster.

    LMAO @ LMNOP trading teams. Those Knicks stink. Actually, not the whole team. Just the coach. He’s horrible.

    @ Bosh
    Why that name bruh…. why…. Lol

    I think Miami held themselves to 1 fg in the 4th quarter a couple nights ago.

  • beiber newz

    You guys honestly don’t think if dwight played with kobe that his averages wouldn’t go up, like way up?

    Bynum is getting his numbers while playing with a damn legend where the defense are more focused on number 24 than bynum. Dwight is on an island. If dwight played with kobe his open looks would be insane, that or kobe can have more open shots. either way, that jus means more boards for dwight if kobe can still take more open shots.

    Not too sure how bynum would do as a first option. If he is the focal point on an opponent’s bulletin board, his ppg may go down slightly. But his defense stays the same.

    Kobe gets so much attention he made guys like smush, kareem rush, shannon brown, LO, etc. look more offensively capable than they really are.

    Dwight would be unstoppabble playing with kobe . As If he aint now tho, I know.

  • dk

    @ writer

    Bynum could touch that if he didnt play with Kobe and was fed the ball low all the time. Bynum is a waaaay better scorer and his touch on the ball is unattainable by Howard. If Howard had Bynums touch, he would go for 100. ( of course assuming his knees held up ).

  • http://www.psychodrama.com Chicagorilla

    MArk Jackson is a good guy, I applaud him for that. Until yesterday, i was begining to change my stance about him as a coach. not that he knew what he was doing or nothing, but I liked the way he seems very personable with his players. x’s and o’s wise he’s just horrid.

    But after watching/listening to that game yesterday I can’t support that dude. That was just the worst display of basketball coaching i’ve ever seen in the NBA.

    Props to Dwight for getting in a rythem eventually and knocking down 9 of 11 at one point or something like that. But this kinda shyt should make him take basketball more serious. Learn how to shoot some FTs big fella. It’s not that hard.

    @yesterday’s smack—- f^ck you Dime for letting that happen. Not cool. You guys should do something to control that shyt. Make us sign in with our Twitter/FB/Google plus names or something. There easy ways to fix this.

    You’re actually wrong. Guys have been athletic for a very long time. It’s not because the athletes attacking the rim are twisting and turning or so high above the rim. Because a guys like Dwight, Javel McGee or Deandre Jordan has already show that they can get 12-13ft up in the air with ease.
    The reason behind the lowerd block shots is the rule changes. Players are called for fouls anytime they go for a block. That’s why Dwight, Javel, DJ, Tyrus, A.Bynum, and all those guys used to stay in so much foul trouble. What seemed to happen now is that they only jump occasionally or they play less minutes.
    Just look at the college ranks. they haven’t changed their rules to benefit scoring so they don’t have those ticky tac foul calls every few min of the game. So a guy like Anthony Davis or John Hensen can have games of 8-10blks even vs good teams. and they’re only 6’10.

    The other thing that has affected shot blocking numbers is the lack of real centers. Most of the centers of today wouldn’t even be starters back in the 90’s because they lack so much (either skill, size, or athleticism).

  • beiber newz

    And whoever said dantoni should have got fired at halftime had me busting out laughing. Just cuz it’d be the most disrespectful thing .

  • http://www.psychodrama.com Chicagorilla


    I would’ve agreed with you guys last year or the year before about the Dwight vs Bynum thing, but honestly dudes post game is just as good if not better than Dwights.
    SO i would fully expect Drew to put up a 40-20 game.
    The only person in the NBA that can stop Bynum right now is Kobe. lol.

    I want to agree with you (and Bill Russell) that Dwight should keep the ball in play. But if you really think about it, how can he? If Dwight can only get his fingers on the ball and can’t grab it, but he tries to tip it to a teammates you guys do realize that the other team is still on the court right? Whats going to stop them from grabbing the tipped ball? Therefore having another shot at scoring.
    Now if Dwight can get his entire hand on the ball I agree that he should just snatch it out the air…..but he already does that.

    To me, it’s a fine line. Think back to the Sacramento vs Lakers game where Chris Webber (or maybe Vlade) tried to tap the ball down court in the last seconds. The ball ended up in Robert Horry’s hands wide open because of the scramble for the ball and he knocks down a trey. This would be the scenario more time than not.

  • RJ

    @beiber newz

    I dont hate you, or feel the need to try and ignore you.

    When I read throw the comments, I take a second and I pity you.

    So so sad.

  • beiber newz

    Um…thanks for the reminder, as pointless as it was.

  • Reg

    Mike D’Antoni has to go.

    It is not easy to call for the exodus of a coach who averaged 58 wins a season in his previous job, who is as kind and decent as they come. Nor does it seem fair to call for the head of a coach who, some would say, helped resurrect this franchise and made the Knicks relevant again. But when players are devoid of respect for a coach’s basketball acumen, when the opposition laughs over the transparency of his game plan, the need for a change simply cannot be denied.

    I’m pretty sure you already knew this but the Knicks cannot play defence folks. Primarily because schematically it’s never important, nor has it ever been a priority in D’Antoni’s mind. The same coach who’s being paid $6 million per season here was out in Phoenix because he would not heed former Suns executive Steve Kerr’s advice that he simply couldn’t win a championship with his system. Fast-forward to four seasons later and nothing has changed. The New York Knicks need a coach not a system. Coaches smirk at the luxury of preparing a game plan against them. Even folks like Charles Barkley have characterized D’Antoni’s refusal to recognize the futility of his ways as “pure stubbornness.”

    It’s time for D’Antoni to go. Lest we want Amare and Melo to expire a helluva lot quicker than their contracts will.

  • beiber newz

    Let’s all take a second and think….rasheed wallace wants back in the nba…I’m all for it. I missed his personality.

  • K Dizzle

    ” Oh … Where did all those people go who said they wouldn’t give up Andrew Bynum anymore for Howard? When you can put up 45 and 23 and STILL leave 18 free throws on the table, Bynum ain’t touching that …”

    Please tell me that the clown who wrote this is 2 yrs old, younger than 2 or is the new intern who’s never seen Bynum play.
    January 21, 2009 Lakers beat the Clips. Bynum WENT OFF!
    (Probably helps that Kobe had a trip-doub with 12 assists)
    Bynum got 42 pts, 15 boards with 3 blks shooting 17-24 fg and 8-11 from the free throw line. Anybody who actually WATCHES ball knows Bynum’s offensive game is miles ahead of Dwight’s. You can’t find one person who would say Dwight has a more polished offensive game. Dwight’s his team’s first option. Bynum was behind Kobe, Pau n Lamar. Like Chris Webber said a few days ago, has anyone actually seen Dwight get the ball on the right block and make an offensive move other than a hook?
    If Andrew Bynum got to the line 39 times, he woulda hit 30+ and had 60 points. So please, Dime smack writer, go to journalism school, or pop in a tape of the 2009 Finals n see how Dwight got contained by a one-legged Bynum and learn your craft before writing some junk.
    I believe the section is called “Smack”, not “TRASH”

    p.s. And I still wouldn’t give up Bynum for Dwight

  • Chaos


    I feel you, i didnt even bother to comment yesterday because of that garbage.

    @Alf and @control

    no apologies necessary


    I agree with you on dwight keeping the ball in play but i will say this, when i played ball and i could swat the shot outta bounds, its like a game changing dunk because it hypes your team up and i mean its gets you in the game so 4 or 5 monster blocks a game always gets you and your team amped to go at the opponents throats but….i think he would if his team was better at rebounding. ryan and hedo are decent rebounders but sometimes they seem content on letting dwight do all the work. plus a team like GS who hustles will always beat the other team to the ball if it is still in play. i say let him swat it outta bounds. its demoralizing (unless u dealing with monta who doesnt care)

    Greg Monroe is a freakin beast and i think it maybe time to change the culture in Detroit now. they have a straight stud in monroe and i think if he was mroe of the focal point of the team, then they would have better chances atr winning. him, jerebko, and knight are gonna be pretty good but u still have stuckey and gordon who are going to go for theirs. at some point they are gonna have to make a decision. they have talent but i dont think the mindset is there. some way gordon is going to have to realize he can make a good living being a jason terry off the bench 18-20pt scorer and thats not a bad job and that stuckey just isnt right for that team and needs a change of scenery.

    what can i say about NYK that hasnt already been said?

    I do miss the days that shot blockers could go up and block shots with confidence and i am not talking about on help D but i mean actually challenging at the rim when a slasher thinks he has an open lane or straight on a fast break or even straight up attacking. but flopping is apparently the way to go (unless its lebron driving to the rim so a player is just gonna have to be pepared to get run over)

  • First & Foremost

    @Chicagorilla, I’ll respectfully disagree with you disagreeing with me even though our explanations were very similar.

    However, the last bit of your comment about real centers is wrong. A real center is just a center that can play both ways. Blocks being a defensive stat, I don’t need a “real” center just to play defense. If I want just a shot blocker I’ll spend $45M on someone like Chandler, Dalembert, Jordan. The league is filled with defensive specialists. Dwight, Oden [when healthy], Kwame, Darko, Okafor, Noah, Verajo, Collins, Robin Lopez, Gortat, Haywood, Anthony, Camby, Perkins, Mohammed, Mcgee, and many more.

    The gameplan of basketball has changed. Instead of looking for that HoF 5-man teams want the HoF 4-man and complement him with a defensive 5. Like the Clippers, Knicks, Trailblazers, and several other teams have tried. The Bulls sure didn’t go after a defensive 4 when they thought about signing Boozer.

    As you said with the rule change, it has made it easier for offensive players to get the call. With that said why would I want to build my team around the offense of my center if the rules make him more prone to picking up fouls. Now the anchor of my offense is out of the game for long stretches. The rule change has had a direct affect on the number of “real” centers in the league.

  • Chaos

    if i was the lakers i would not trade bynum. i know the whole knee issue and so forth and so on but dude is ready. you can tell. he is being agressive on both ends of the floor, looks active and not worried about his nees. he wants to ball and will keep calling for it but i just feel bad because he plays with kobe he wont realize his potential until kobe sits. dwight is great but that running hook and half hook is not gonna get the job done. he gets the ball and waits too long to make his move. he needs to learn to pump fake one way on the block, get his man in the air, one dribble and flush.

  • beiber newz

    You think dime cares if you guys say, “I didn’t bother to comment” if they are still getting 100+ comments on the page you guys are saying you didn’t comment on?

    Also, you guys are even adding more comments today by commenting on how you didn’t comment yesterday. Dimemag always win. Stop trying to control their website.

  • First & Foremost

    The number of comments isn’t a direct indication of site traffic. If 1 person never leaves the site and comments 90 times, fine, so be it. If 90 people visit the site and only 1 leaves a comment, that is better for the site. Their advertisments were exposed to 90 different people. Reaching a paltry 100 comments in their premium series made by 15 different people isn’t much of a win. Slam posts any article about Lebron vs. Kobe and they have a 400 comments by 90 different people.

    Stop making a big deal about the number of comments.

    No offense Dime.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Slick Ric

    I’m convinced @beiebr newz is a retard, saying ellis is a better passer than Rose, in your dreams idiot. He constantly provides the worst analysis of anyone on this site.SMH

  • beiber newz

    You act like dime regularly breaks even 200 comments. 100 + is great for a day’s worth. So people looking at an article and not commenting is even just as good because they still generated traffic. No one would know about how bad they think the comment section is if they hadn’t visited the site in the first place. The number of comments is not the end-all indicator of site traffic anyway. But 100+ is still a good day for dime. Commenting that you didn’t comment just means you at least visited. And still, you are adding more comments by saying so. Good rebuttal tho fNf, really, but I hav to disagree with about 15 % of it.

  • beiber newz

    Kyrie really is looking like the next chris paul.

    It’s funny, people always criticize GM’s knowledge and contract signings and etc. But these guys look to have picked the best rookie in the heap and only after he played a handful of games in college.

    Paid scouts are able to assess talent well, and I think ppl should back off criticizing gm’s moves. They know a lot more than we do.

    Kyrie’s game is just phenomenal, he is the truth at PG. And his composure is amazing for his stage. He already has the cool calm attitude of a chauncey, with the smooth game of a Cpaul3.

  • That’s What’s Up

    It’s going to be real interesting to see how all these players last. I’m guessing the amount of practices are way down, which the players probably love.

    …and is there an All-Star Game and weekend(and when is it?)

    Beiber newz = auto scroll. When I want to waste time talking nonsense I just go to my youngest kid that’s just learning how to talk. She knows more hoops than beebzy


    @ Jay & Reg, Mike D himself isn’t the problem with the Knicks, Mike D coaching a team where the combined IQ (not basketball, but actual IQ) of his entire backcourt is about 6, is the problem, so either fire him and get a coach who will make all these athletic guys play some D or get him a point guard.

    Im not gonna say Mike D is a shit coach, because there are only 3 active coaches with rings, and he got just as close as anyone, but he is fucking pointless on this team.
    i just hope Nash signs in NY in the summer, because another season of this shit and im going to buy some courtside tickets just to go and kill Spike Lee.

  • beiber newz

    @46 Yooo I might change my name to beezy. That’s fire

  • 4m

    At this rate, Lakers might as well trade Bynum for Howard’s superior defense straight up since Kobe obviously doesn’t need Bynum’s offense. Dude’s determined to surpass Kareem for all-time scoring and Bynum is getting in the way of that. And at the rate Kobe’s going, it will take about 5 more years for him to achieve that. By that time, Bynum will probably be retired cause of his creaky knees.


    oh, yeah, and if its a straight swap id trade Bynum in a heartbeat… in fact i dont see why it doesn’t happen yet, Magic get the only other center in the NBA even close to Dwights level and Lakers get 2012Shaq. I imagine Drew would probably flourish in Orlando where he would get to be Da Man.

  • beiber newz

    @46 I meant to write beebzy…but beezy is hot too.

  • http://www.psychodrama.com Chicagorilla


    Yeah the ASG is Feb 26th in Orlando. ONe of the reasons why Dwight won’t be traded yet is because the game is down there. After that ASG, I mean RIGHT AFTER, expect trade talks to go through the roof because the trade deadline is only two weeks or so after that.

    And the teams trading for Dwight probably won’t be contenders this year. Because whoever gets him will lose a bulk of players in the deal and they won’t have much time to Gel going into the playoffs.

  • Big Island

    The only reason I dump Bynum for Dwight is health. I would take a healthy Bynum over a healthy Dwight, but I just don’t feel good about Bynum staying healthy. Dwight’s line should have an asterisk next to it.

    Melo flat out quit last night. He can eat a bowl of dick.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    ^Yup. Carjelo is not someone I’d want to go to war with.
    Jello pudding-pop eatin’ muthafucker.

  • First & Foremost

    LOL Big Island, I want you to go to the store and buy Melo a bowl of dick to eat. You can go as Joe Rogan which aisle they are in. Don’t cheat by getting some Campbell’s Chunky Cereal. I want you to find an actual bowl of dick and mail it Lala’s husband.

  • trollne1

    I read an article before that described D’Antoni as the greatest contrarian. So if you keep nagging him about winning by defense, he’ll do the absolute exact opposite. Seems like his system requires a high-IQ PG for it to be successful. If that’s the case, then why did the Knicks keep getting all these high-profile frontcourt players? Should’ve drafted Jennings in ’09.

    Speaking of coaches, I hope DIME writes an article on who is the best defensive coach in the between Spoelstra, Mike Brown and Thibs. I would’ve said best young defensive coach but Thibs is 50+ or up-and-coming but Brown’s been in the NBA for 5+ years.

  • Sean Sweeney

    ^^ Exactly. K Dizzle, you gotta explain to me man why you wouldn’t trade Bynum for Howard. I gotta know because even on Twitter, it’s amazing me how many people are now suddenly saying Bynum > Dwight after like 5 games of great ball from AB.

    People want to blame Kobe for being the reason Bynum isn’t where Dwight is. I’m sorry. I can’t blame Bryant for holding Bynum down when he’s had WAY too many instances where he was just average. Dude has never put together a full season of good ball in his entire career. He’s never even been an All-Star. If Dwight Howard would’ve grown up playing with Kobe I guarantee he still would’ve been an All-Star multiple times over.

    Lastly, and this is just going off the trade scenarios, like Big I said the injury thing does it for me. It doesn’t matter that Bynum has had big games before because the man is never, ever, ever able to stay healthy. Meanwhile, Howard goes about his business and almost never misses a game.

    And if we’re talking end of careers (when Howard loses some of that athleticism) I’ll still take a 33-year-old Howard over a 33-year-old Bynum because young 7-footers who get hurt as often as Bynum have never been able to shake the bug/avoid long-term problems. It’s never happened.

  • http://Dimemag.com Panchitoooo

    Lol@K Dizzle shitting on Dimes “cant touch it” comment.

    I couldnt watch all the NY game, that was some horrible basketball. Rookies jacking up shots, everyone getting blocked, turnovers on turnovers, at one point L Fields got the ball on the break, fumbled the ball before he got to the rim, gained control again only to lose it off his leg out of bounds. That when i turned it off and got on some MW3, get your kills up.

    @ beibs
    If NY keeps playing like that your boy Melos got no chance for the MVP. I hope they dont think BD will come in and save the day. I wonder if Knick fans are saying ” wait till BD gets in”

  • trollne1

    I was looking at the ’09 draft class and I forgot how low Lawson went. So yeah. D’Antoni should’ve taken him instead. Although Jennings would still be a huge improvement over what NY has right now at PG.

  • DH

    No mention of STAT going 1-7 from the field and scoring 6 points?

  • beiber newz

    Has there ever been an mvp with a subpar team record? If not, then that will be the only thing holding him back from being in the elite talk for chances at it. He has to take control of this team. People don’t realize how losing a big time point guard hurts in billups.

    Billups wouldn’t even let certain players take dumb shots. Billups gone is equivalent to a teacher leaving the classroom and the students end up running rampant, doing their own thing. If billups was still in ny, he probably wouldn’t make an all star impact, but he’d for sure positively influence every guard on the team and the offense in NY would be much more steady than it looks now, especially in the losses.

    Smh !!

  • http://Dimemag.com Panchitoooo

    @ Sweeney
    Hey whos comement did you end up running for the ” breakout season” article you had on Nov 28? Looking st how things are going i think i killed it with my post.

  • beiber newz

    Also….don’t mitigate the effect of what having a baron davis can do for a ball club.
    You are right in thinking people are blowing things off the top saying bdiddy is a savior…but don’t ignore the impact of what a smart playmaker can do for an offensive bunch like the new york knicks.
    Baron wouldn’t be relied on to score, I mean, dude’s fg% is putrid to say the least, but he has hit big shots, and he can control tempo better than 80% of the pg playing right now.
    Diddy is a proven player on the fast break and his vision is still off the charts, something that never goes away regardless of age.

    I do think baron davis’s impact will be felt immediately , however, people have to tone down the savior implications. Baron will immediately change things for the better, but there is a chance he contributes to the poor shot selection because he has history of taking some quick, questionable shots.

    Overall , I will have to say it’s okay for fans to say , wait til bdiddy gets here, but they don’t know necessarily why that is correct to say. But they are right. He was the only automatic starter amnestied, and that was only cuz of injuries.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    I agree with you about Bynum/Dwight… but I can see where other people are coming from. History has shown that some young players don’t excel when playing with another ball dominant player. Speaking as a Raptor fan, TMac did not see the same opportunity in Toronto as he had in Orlando playing beside Vince… even though TMac was in the league longer, his older cousin contributed right away and was handed the keys to the franchise while TMac felt left out. Jermaine O’Neal barely got off the bench in Portland, and then all of a sudden became a double-double beast in Indiana. He didn’t become that good overnight. JO always had the talent, but he needed the opportunity. Drazen Petrovic?
    Keeping that in mind, Bynum played behind not just Kobe (one of the most ball dominant guards to ever play), but also Gasol and even Odom.

    I can see where Dizzle is coming from… Dwight has reached his peak. I don’t think he’ll get much better. Bynum still has an aura of mystery around him… like “how good can this kid really be?” Nobody can really say until his opportunity presents itself. Let’s hope he stays healthy, because the NBA needs another dominant true center.

  • JC

    Dwight could’ve had 60 SMH. I agree that Jackson killed the game’s momentum with all the free throws. The Warriors thrive by overwhelming you and just choking you out for 48 minutes without giving you an opportunity to execute. Panic Stan was able to walk his team through the fire and help them properly approach the game. I feel like the Warriors can ONLY win by running, gunning, scrapping and so on.

    Kyrie Irving is gonna seriously mess around and make me get NBA League Pass.

    Iman Shumpert’s confidence is his greatest asset and his greatest liability. I hope he doesn’t turn into another Jordan Crawford.

    Only thing I want this season: Lakers-Clippers playoff series. PLEASE make that happen, basketball gods.

  • Big Island

    DH – Amare isn’t really big on getting his own shots. If he has a bad game it’s usually because the ball isn’t moving around and he is forced to go alone. Amare only scares me when he’s slashing and getting little open jumpers. Him going 1-7 is more of an indication of the team playing bad. Blake Griffin should watch Amare and work on his game. Both were super athletic dunk monsters, but Amare is completely dependent on someone setting him up.

    F&F – I might have to go to one of the asian markets around here to get an ox penis or something and make the soup myself. But believe me, Melo would get the first bowl. He could wear his cute little matching outfit with Wade and Lebron, but Lebron wouldn’t get a bowl. His numbers are retarded. Wade would get a cup and a half sandwich. But Melo gets a whole, big, piping hot bowl of dick to eat. I would even dip my junk a regular bowl of soup for him. I wouldn’t shower for 3 days and work out really hard to add some extra flavor. I don’t think anyone here has rolled their ankle like that and quit playing. That was a “tighten the shoe and get back out there” roll at worst. Instead of Melo, the Knicks should have gotten a decent, not even great, just decent, PG and SG for the Melo money. I’ve got nothing against LaLa though. That Real World skank Tami who took Kenny Anderson for his cash can get AIDS for all I care. I’m getting off topic here, sorry. Melo, bowl of dicks, eat up.

  • Sean Sweeney

    @Panchitoooo We used some of those in the new issue. If memory serves me correct, I believe we did use yours.

  • http://Dimemag.com Panchitoooo

    If he can stay healthy Bynum is a shoe in for the all-star game and Most Improved Player this season. Hes also 68% career free throw shooter so there no hack a bynum bullshit going on.

    Did anyone else see Dwight praying that he hit his And 1 baskets so he didnt need to shoot 2 free throws? Havent seen such a sorry sight since high school. Step your game up son

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    Not basketball related

    I was just going through some older articles… and ran into one from a couple days ago titled…


    Justin Beiber left this comment…
    “to address the article’s title……does JAY’s mom count?”

    Funny, but FYI Justin, my moms is battling cancer. If you have a problem with me, talk about ME. Leave my moms out of it. I am one of the few guys in here who have tried many times to rationalized with you. Fuck that shit. You and I have a problem. Don’t address me anymore.

    Karma’s a bitch…. keep talking that shit and we’ll see how cute you think it is when your moms/sister/aunt/Gf is battling cancer too.

  • beiber newz

    You know jay, that would make sense if I made a KG-like reference like he did to charlie villanueva.

    However, it was a conventional mama’s joke.

    And you mix in a disease with it as if I had any idea.
    What you did was cute, but don’t try to make it look like I was making fun of a cancer patient.

    Sry to your mom, your real mom, but the mama joke was a harmless one. Get at me if I actually dissed her for having it.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    @ DIME
    Tomorrow can you use that bubble-jacket photo again?? At least one of you guys know what I’m talking about. That shit makes me laugh.

  • control

    I’m not sure why people are complaining about Dwight’s offensive game. The guy had it ALL last night, the reason why he was being fouled so much was because every time he got the ball, he was putting it through the rim so hard he was going to break something (see that dunk he slammed so hard, ball bounced off floor and hit someone in the second level). Dwight was facing up and driving by his guy, drop step dunking, and basically just beasting whoever was in front of him, with both power and speed. He could do that EVERY night, but the refs shut him down. The guy’s impact on defense is insane. Guys driving down the lane are having to put their shots at least double the height they’d normally put em. Monta BARELY got a few over Dwight, and they were insanely difficult and high arcing shots. Dwight just completely changes the way every single offensive player plays, makes them uncomfortable. That is worth more than having a decent post game…


    So, ny needs a high IQ point guard, so your recommendation is to draft one of the lowest IQ point guards out there? You seen that guy’s end of game choices?

  • Mt. Pleasant

    @ Ghostzilla

    I had league pass broadband last year and I thought the quality was really good. I would plug my computer into my TV and watch it on the larger screen and it looked like high-def still. It would freeze for a millisecond once in a while before catching up to live action but it was infrequent enough that it never bothered me.

    It really improved from 2 years ago last year so I would guess its even better this year.

  • beiber breaker

    In tomorrow’s smack I’m going to have beiber crying off this site.

    Just making a prediction comment so I can come back after and show people how amazing I am!

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    I’m not gonna talk bad about Mark Jackson for sending Dwight Howard to the line 40 times last night. How many people get on sites like Dime every day talking about, “If I was the coach, I woulda {Strategy X}!” or “Why doesn’t {NBA Coach Y} just {Strategy Z}?” Players do the same thing all the time, sports writers and TV analysts do it, even assistant coaches do it.

    Mark Jackson has never been a coach before, now he is a coach, and I’m sure just like every other basketball fan/player/media member he’s had some strategies in his mind for years that he now has a chance to try out. (“Why not just send Dwight to the line all night? Why not just triple-team Kobe on the game’s final play? Why not just feed the ball at whoever Amar’e is guarding until he fouls out?”)

    We can’t really jump on his back for trying something, especially if the goal was to win the game.

  • Bilal

    I’d take Bynum over Howard, because I actually think he is better on both ends. Yes howard is always making highlight blocks, but at the end of the day they are both “7ft” so either way would be able to cause players to have to alter shots.

    I feel bad for Dantoni, his 7sec of less style really helped the NBA, it was entertaining. The thing is everyone knew that it wouldnt win a championship. We all have seen that every year teams that play good defence seem to win. Should he be fired? Maybe. I thought that the knicks had brought in Woodson for defence, but apparently Dantoni and more importantly the players didn’t get the message. But really I thinks the front office should have known that these “big time players” don’t do defence. BUT business-wise it made sense, the knicks became relevant again and all was restored in Sterns eyes.

  • beiber newz

    Jay……I actually am apologizing. Had I known, I wouldn’t have done that stupid shit. That’s a serious thing. And I am aware now, I’m slapping myself, I don’t like makin mama jokes for that reason…you never know ppl’s situations. Sorry for real. Douche move on my part.

    But anyway..back to hating me. I jus wanted to get that out the way.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    I think it’s funny that, for YEARS, everybody kept saying “Steve Nash MADE Diaw” and “Q-Rich owes Nash money” and “Amar’e needs Nash” and “Marion is just average without Nash” and “Nash MADE Frye,” etc. … Now all of a sudden it’s time to feel sorry for Nash because he’s stuck with mediocre teammates? Now it’s time to “Free Nash”?

    If Nash is as great as we’ve been led to believe, shouldn’t he just “make” some more All-Stars? Can’t he just do his Nash magic and turn Markieff Morris, Jared Dudley and Hakim Warrick into the 2012 versions of Amar’e, Joe Johnson and Shawn Marion?

    Or, is it possible that MAYBE those guys whom Nash “made” were already good players who didn’t need Nash to hold their hand all the way to a big contract? Maybe they were just as important to Phoenix’s success as Nash.

    Can’t have it both ways, fellas. Either Nash is so good that he can make any ol’ body look great, or he needs the support of solid finishers and good teammates just like every other point guard.

  • K Dizzle

    @ Sweeney

    Let’s pretend we got a healthy Dwight and a healthy Bynum at where they are this season. They damn near neck in neck right now, because as dominant as Dwight is defensively, Bynum is that far ahead offensively. Dudes love to laugh at Brook Lopez cuz he can put up 20+, but doesn’t rebound or play defense. Well, here’s a kid that will give you 20, board outside his area, never need double team help and plays help defense. Dwight puts up 40+ vs the Warriors without 2 starters, misses damn near 20 freebies and the smack writer calls out Bynum fans? Lol That shit is CRAY!!!
    If you goin by what you see on Twitter, you just gettin into hype. Let’s be real for a minute: If Bynum stays healthy and continues his 18 and 14 production, why do the Lakers need Dwight? I been sayin for years now, there’s a difference between being injury prone(Oden) and unlucky(Bynum). Majority of Bynum’s injuries came from unlucky shyt like Kobe(200 lbs) fallin into his knee when it was planted. Oden broke a kneecap running down the foor. That’s injury prone. Bynum’s injuries come from hard contact.
    When this season started, 90% of people were sayin Bynum AND Gasol was a great trade for Howard. I was never down with that. Matter fact, all players being healthy, Dwight for Bynum straight up ACTUALLY BENEFITS both squads. Dwight would be a great fit in LA cuz he’s a defensive big that can get by on putbacks and jumphooks, but you can tell he’s not really comfortable with the offense running thru him in Orlando. Kobe and Gasol will do the healthy lifting and the hi-lo game with the unselfish Gasol would be poison. There’s a reason he’s been in the league 7 seasons n we still get 5-9 shot games. Bynum would flourish in Orlando. He has offensive polish, he’s comfortable with the double team and the kickout pass. You can throw the ball into Bynum and have a mismatch against every other team in the l cuz of his post moves, footwork and his touch. He’s already a better free throw shooter than Dwight. He rebounds just as well, even with years of sharing boards with Odom and Gasol.
    The only advantage Dwight ever had on Bynum was health so right now, I might not be able to say Bynum’s better, but this is the closest another center’s been to Dwight since Yao was healthy. It was only last year when dudes were sayin Bynum might not even be the second best center n were throwin out names like Bogut and Kaman.
    Like Chi-rilla said a few days ago, the only person stopping Bynum now is Kobe. Check comments after every Lakers game, win-or-lose, it’s always “Kobe needs to get Bynum more touches”.
    As for Dwight playing more all-star games, c’mon….
    Who’s even the 2nd best center out east? Didn’t Yao Ming get voted as the starter out west last season?
    And I totally disagree about 33 yr old Bynum vs 33 yr old Dwight. There is no doubt in my mind that once Dwight’s hops are done, his game is done. He never developed the gravity bound lowpost game that translates to post 30 centers like Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, even Kurt Thomas. How can you think Dwight will suddenly develop a Kevin Mchale post game in his 30s when he’s shown no signs up to this point? Ask Ben Wallace what happens when your hops leave you when you depend completely on athleticism. Then keep your eyes on Javale McGee and DeAndre Jordan as they age.
    Bynum WILL age better. He’s already just getting by on footwork, timing and length.

    Just check your own argument: You can’t go with Bynum cuz of his injury record. Well, right now, he’s healthy, he’s a better scorer than Dwight even with Kobe chuckin like it’s 2006, he’s matchin him for boards. So if Bynum stays healthy, what legitimate argument would anybody have for picking Dwight over Bynum?

    I got no problem with my Lakers trading Bynum for Howard straight up, but I’m not gonna cry if we gotta keep him…

  • beiber newz

    I am jus noticing that “beiber breaker” guy.
    Read my #8 post and that should tell you if I care.

    Also, you may want to change your name because I’m changing my name to beebzy by tonight’s smack.

  • K Dizzle

    @ Austin

    U unbelievable sometimes.

    Yeah, a 32 year old Steve Nash could make average players good and make good players great.
    But maybe you fell asleep for a bit and missed a few years, but the man is 38. Please name another point guard that was this productive at this age who was the best player on their squad. Dude is avging 12 and 10 shooting 52% from the field coming off a lockout surrounded by Dudley, Gortat, Shannon Brown, 39 year old G Hill and Hakim Warrick. His backup is chillin in China.
    How come a 38 year old Michael Jordan couldn’t take the Wizards to the chip?

    Be fair in your analysis…Dude got 2 mvps because he made the game easier for his teammates

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @KDizzle — I don’t care if Nash is 38 or 32, the skills that made him great at his peak are not skills that fade with age. Ball-handling, vision, ability to thread the needle, craftiness, basketball IQ, even his shooting … he still has all of that. The only thing he’s lost a step or two on would be his speed, vertical leap and defensive reactions, which were never part of Nash’s greatness anyway.

    It’s different than Jordan (a scorer who needs to be able to simply out-athlete a defender at times) leading a team to the playoffs at 40 or even Ron Artest (a defensive lynchpin who needs his reflexes, strength, etc.) being able to lock down guys at 35 years old. Nash can still break down defenses, can still keep his dribble alive when others would pick it up, can still see plays develop, can still get the ball where it needs to be, and can still keep defenses honest with his jump shot.

    My point is that Nash got too much credit during his peak: People acted like you coulda rolled out four tackling dummies in Phoenix uniforms and Nash would lead them to a 110-point game. They acted like Channing Frye was just some random dude who, thanks to Nash, suddenly found himself open and able to knock down threes. They acted like Amar’e was just some kid who could jump that only averaged 20-25 points because Nash was spoon-feeding him.

    My point is that Nash needed those guys and their abilities just as much as they needed him to get them the ball. Nash needed D’Antoni and that system to play his best. And now that we’re seeing that there IS a difference between Shawn Marion and Jared Dudley, instead of admitting that Nash was being given too much credit, we’re crying about how he needs help.

  • http://Dimemag.com Panchitoooo

    The one thing that Dwight can bring to the Lakers that Bynum cannot is ticket sales once Kobe leaves. Hes a PR SUPERMAN! Cause we all know the lower bowl of staples center are half filled with fake fans who wanna be part of the in crowd. Those fake fucks will most likely migrate to Clipper games if the Lakers dont pick up a big name in the next 3-4 years.

  • trollne1


    Like I said though, Jennings would still be an upgrade over what the Knicks have now. And forgot that Lawson was still on board at that time.

    @Austin Burton

    How much more can Nash squeeze out of the likes of Dudley, Grant Hill (!!!) and Frye? Those guys’ best days as a Suns were a couple of years ago. The only player Nash can help reach his peak right now is probably Gortat and maybe the rookies, although I have not seen them play yet while Warrick and Brown are wildly inconsistent.

    Amare, Diaw, JJ, and even Bell and Q-Rich meanwhile were nearing their peak when they teamed up with Nash and Nash made them efficient players. When those guys left PHX, sure they had a great season or two but their weaknesses on offense became more exposed more than ever (JJ too much dribbling, Amare needs a setup man). It also helped that Nash was in his prime then.

    Nash made other GMs believe that Amare and JJ could be a franchise cornerstone for more than one season. He made other GMs believe that Diaw, Q-Rich and Raja Bell would still be productive and efficient even without Nash. So yeah, I think those guys “owe Nash money,” as you would put it.

  • trollne1

    Forgot Marion and D’Antoni btw. But yeah, same story. Their best days were with Nash. But at least Marion got a ring.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    @AB – “The only thing he’s lost a step or two on would be his speed, vertical leap and…” *screeeeeeeech*
    – Nash had a vertical?? When did I miss that? I been watching nash since he was 16 yrs old with the Canadian Men’s team. I never seen it. Stop kidding, AB. You don’t have to lie to make your point.

    @beib: “Hate”? Nobody hates you bud. At least not anyone behind my monitor. I can’t stand repetitive nonsense posts about nothing. And for the last little while, many of your posts have been like that. Have I ever dissed you? Called you stupid? Called you a punk? Said something about your mom? Other than you thinking that one of my analogies was meant as a disrespectful shot at you, I don’t think I’ve said anything to you to make you think I hate you, or even dislike you. I been telling you up until a couple weeks ago, I’m cool with you. I don’t hate, or even like anyone here. Shit ain’t worth it. I come here for ball opinions, and it annoys me when I have to skip 30-40 posts of “SEE I told you!” and “You bitches have me on your minds all the time!”…. that shit is fucking ridiculous. I understand this is the internet where you can say pretty much what you want, but damn, this is a ball site. I think I speak for everyone here (other than maybe control)…. keep the talk to ball, and everyone is cool with you. If you keep up with that stupid talk, you can’t really blame anyone for going off on you. I try to ignore that stuffm and skip those posts but you gotta understand why some guys in here call you out for that shit. Apology accepted, but fuck man… settle down.

  • http://Dimemag.com Panchitoooo

    All this coming off a night when amare went for 7 points lol.

  • http://Dimemag.com Panchitoooo

    LOL@cant wait for the dimemag blog family picnic.

  • Mt. Pleasant

    @ Austin

    That comment is ridiculous. No one said those guys aren’t good. Everyone acknowledges they were good players but he made them significantly better. How well are Diaw, Q-Rich, Amar’e and Marion doing now?

    Significantly worse.

    Maybe he still is making players better. They are just worse to begin with. Frye went from 4.2 pts a game in 08-09 with portland to 11.2 in 09-10 with Nash. Seems like he did make him better.

    Gortat went from 4 to 13 pts when he went to Pheonix. Granted he’s playing more but if you watched that game last night most of his points come off plays where Nash set him up.

    How much is he supposed to make them better 4 pts per game to 30?

    And whoever said it above he’s now 38. If those skills don’t deminish than by your logic how long should he be playing at an MVP level? 40, 50, couple trips to Germany and 60?

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @JAY — I’m not saying Nash ever had an impressive vertical, just that he naturally would’ve lost inches off whatever vert he had in the last few years.

    @trollne1 — You’re missing the point. I’m saying that all the guys who Nash “made” were already good in their own right. And yeah, they were entering their primes and peaks as players during their time with Nash, which has just as much (or more) to do with their play in Phoenix; it wasn’t simply Nash performing magic tricks and lifting bums to All-Star caliber.

    Marion had multiple seasons of 20-10-2 blocks/steals type of numbers BEFORE Nash arrived. (Besides, how does Nash impact Marion’s rebounding and defense?) Did Marion match that type of production after leaving Phoenix? No, but it was in part because he started getting older. It was in part because he went to different systems where — no matter who was playing PG — he wasn’t going to get as many shots or opportunities to get in transition. It wasn’t just because he no longer had Nash. Nash didn’t “make” Marion, and the fact that Marion’s decline began after Phoenix is a lot of circumstance that has nothing to do with Nash. It’s not like if Marion played with Nash now he’d be putting up 19-9-2.

    Q-Rich began the transition from interior player to three-point gunner when he was with the Clippers, BEFORE Nash. Granted, he doubled his amount of threes taken while he was in Phoenix, but that was because of his role on the team. It’s not like Nash was also coaching and decided to stick Q out at the three-point line. And Nash can make the prettiest passes in the world, but Q still has to make the shots himself, right?

    Joe Johnson HAS proven he can be a franchise player. Maybe not a franchise-going-to-the-Finals player, but franchise nonetheless. He has been putting up 20-5-5 type numbers in Atlanta WITHOUT Nash, so how did Nash “make” Joe Johnson?

  • superfreak6


    Are you just angry that Kob didn’t get those MVP’s those couple years or something? It is ridiculous to think that Nash didn’t make Q, Diaw, Raja, Barbosa and like 46 other cast offs better. No one really doubted that Phoenix had talent on those teams (Amare, Marion, emerging JJ), but mostly the “owe Nash money” comments were used for players like Q, Raja, Barbosa, Diaw, Dudley, Frye etc. Guys that were literally insignificant before they played with Nash.

    “Maybe they were just as important to Phoenix’s success as Nash.”
    They went from 29 to 62 wins with pretty much the exact same core. You don’t just change from one all star PG to another and magically 33 more wins.

    “They acted like Channing Frye was just some random dude who, thanks to Nash, suddenly found himself open and able to knock down threes.”
    Um.. that’s exactly what Channing Frye was. He was a 9th man off the bench for Portland averaging 4pts a game before he came to Phoenix. I’d put him in the category of “random dude.” If you want to, Jared Dudley probably belongs in that category as well.

    You drinking that hatorade today AB. Good debate though.

  • Mt. Pleasant

    Anyone else rooting for Mark Jackson to be a successful head coach in the league so he doesn’t return to broadcasting?

    The new TNT broadcast teams are better without him.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @Mt. Pleasant — I disagree. A lot of people were saying Nash’s old teammates weren’t very good, or that they were only highly regarded because of Nash’s presense.

    Dorell Wright also went from nobody to averaging double figures? Does that mean he’s going to owe Stephen Curry money? Or is it because he got a lot more playing time in G-State than he did in Miami? Danilo Gallinari has gone from expendable starter/6th man to his team’s leading scorer. Is that all thanks to Ty Lawson? No, it’s because his circumstances and role on the team changed. Luis Scola has gone from grunt-work PF to maybe Houston’s best player. Is it because of Kyle Lowry/Aaron Brooks, or is it because Yao’s absence allowed Scola to play a different role?

    Diaw, Q-Rich, Raja and Marion, all of their declines post-Phoenix can be just as easily attributed to age and (in Diaw and Q’s cases) weight and PT/role circumstances as they could be attributed to not having Nash anymore.

    How is Amar’e doing now? Ummm, wasn’t he getting MVP talk in New York before Carmelo showed up? Doesn’t sound like “significanly worse” to me. But I guess that should all be credited to Ray Felton according to your argument.

    Frye averaged 4 points with Portland, but he also was being talked about as The Franchise for a minute in New York before that. So we already knew Frye was capable of averaging double-digit points, but in Portland he was playing behind LMA, Camby and (when healthy) Oden. So did Nash really make Frye better, or did Frye just move to a situation where he could get a lot of PT and shoot a lot of threes?

    I’m not hating on Nash. I think Nash DOES make other players look better. So does Deron Williams, so does Chris Paul, so does Andre Miller. That’s what a passing PG does. I just don’t like it when people don’t give a player his due credit for his own accomplishments. So many people said CP3 “made” David West and Tyson Chandler, and yet Chandler played some of his best ball WITHOUT Chris Paul. And was CP3 making those jumpers for D-West? Nope.

    And yes, Nash will be able to dribble, pass and shoot at his MVP level well into his 40s and maybe his 50s. You saw Bob Cousy still knocking down jumpers when he was like 80. What’s going to take Nash out of the game is that he won’t be able to guard anybody anymore, and his body parts will hurt too much to produce multiple times per week. But yeah, the skills are still there, even at 38 years old.

  • Mt. Pleasant

    @ Austin

    I’m not one of those people that says that those players weren’t good players in their own right and were only successful because of Nash. They were all good players, but I do think that he helped their stats.

    You’re right you can come up with a counter arguement for all of the players whose stats dropped off after they left the Suns. But there are so many players whose stats improved when they played with him and dropped off when they moved on (Add J Rich to that list too) that it becomes hard not to give him credit.

    I don’t even know where to start with arguing that age decreases all mental and physical abilities. You don’t care if he’s 32 or 38? I don’t know what to say. Nobody operates at the same level at 32 and 38. Track every single player in every single professional sports league.

    If he’s slower on D he’ll be slower with the ball too. Vision gets worse with age, let alone court vision, dexterity gets worse. How do you compare to 6 years ago?

  • http://Dimemag.com Panchitoooo

    @ JAY
    Dime used your Oden quote in their article as well LOL

  • beiber newz

    @jay…fine, u know what..strictly ball for me.
    ima pay no mind to the BS thrown at me…
    i’ll see how far dat gets me.
    but there r times wen i keep to myself, and there’s a comment about “that idiot beibs such n such” and it’ll happen repetitively.
    how many ppl hav come here just to write a comment to say : “beib, dis is a reminder i hate u” ?
    minding my biz n talkin ball has never worked cuz im brought up in the randomest ways.

    but ima mind my biz for a week n see where it gets me.

    sry again for the mom thing, hope mama dukes gets bak to 100.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    And there’s one other player whose numbers improved significantly in Phoenix, whose numbers will likely drop off significantly when he leaves:


    That’s what everybody seems to forget. If you want to give somebody too much credit for “making” the careers of these guys, give it to D’Antoni and the 7-Seconds system. For every argument that is made about the pre-Phoenix and post-Phoenix careers of Marion, Amar’e, Diaw, Raja, whoever, I could make the same argument for Nash by substituting “D’Antoni/The system” for “Nash,” and “Nash” for “Player X.”

    Where are all these stories of Nash making people better in Dallas? If you’re saying that Frye and Johnson and Gortat ONLY got better in Phoenix because of Nash, then what suddenly made Nash better after he left Dallas?

    How come Dirk got BETTER without Nash? How come the Mavs went to the Finals and then won a championship AFTER Nash? It’s all about a mix of circumstances, many that have nothing to do with one single player, as great as he may be.

    Here’s what I think: Nash, D’Antoni and The System all came together at the perfect time in their careers, and they all made each other shine. Same thing for Matrix, Amar’e, Diaw, Raja, Frye and Dudley. It was the perfect blend of certain players reaching their athletic peaks (which could have something to do with Phoenix’s much-hyped medical staff as well); certain players reaching points in their careers where they had contracts years or points to prove; and it all worked for a period to make the Suns a contender. Nash benefitted just as much from this perfect blend of circumstances as guys like Amar’e and Matrix and Joe benefitted. Everybody played their roles to make Nash shine, and he played his role to make them shine. And D’Antoni played his role as well. You can’t give all the credit to one PG, which is what I saw far too often during Phoenix’s heyday.

  • beiber newz

    honestly though, i said this a while back…..i don’t understand the big deal about someone coming on here and commenting on a topic that they were right about.

    isn’t that what happens in sports? don’t people make claims, and when that thing comes to fruition, don’t they come back and comment on their assessment being spot on?

    i don’t get it. maybe i do it in an obnoxious way, is that it? because i’ve been watching sportscenter, and espn and any sports show you can think of. when analysts say things, it’s usually in debate form.

    look at the nfl crew when they talk tim tebow. they admit when they were wrong about when they say he’ll lose such-n-such game, just like those who predicted he’d win such-n-such game come on and say they were right.

    reminding people that you were accurate in a claim is all apart of sports talk. is it just the way i come across when i do it? i just don’t get it.

    yes i bring up things from the past, but don’t we all? guys are doing it today when talking about what they believed bynum would be. saying, “i wanted LA to keep bynum” or saying “i was wrong about bynum”.

    is it only right to remind people you said something when you’re wrong? people feel like you dusting your shoulders off when you say you were right about something, but most times, especially if you were going back and forth with someone on this site about a topic, wouldn’t you come back and remind that person you were right when what you were supporting comes true?

  • Mt. Pleasant

    @ Austin

    So the statistical variation for every player who played with Nash can be explained by the various complex sets of circumstances that made up their situations and had nothing to do with Nash’s point guard play?

    There’s just too many examples for me to believe that your argument played out over and over again. The odds of that have to be very slim.

    Agree to disagree I guess.

  • http://Dimemag.com Panchitoooo

    When kobe missed that game winner in raja bells face versus utah i had flashbacks of the Suns and the infamous clothsline kobe got.

  • beiber newz

    that clothsline looked more bad for raja than it did kobe. anyone can get clotselined, they culprit jus admits getting frustrated by a move like dat.

  • beiber newz

    mike brown coached lbj….he says kobe bryant is more serious minded than lebron…while that’s good to have for bball knowledge…tell us something we don’t know. lol

  • http://Dimemag.com Panchitoooo

    I wont be suprised if Bynum has a HUGE game tonight against the Cavs. If you ever sat and watched your rival go nuts in a game before yours it does something to your confidence and eagerness to get out there and get it done. Almost like a anything you can do i can do better kinda thing. Im not saying a 40&20 game, unless Bynum shoots 38 free throws but he should go off and kobe will be the guy that feeds our 7 foot monster.

  • Big Island

    Every player not named Dirk or Joe (I think Joe Johnson played with Nash, but I am too lazy to look) who has played with Nash and left has fallen off. Nash makes his guys better, like someone said up above. Phoenix replaced All-Star guys with good guys, and then good guys with back-ups on any other team. But Nash is still there. They CLEARLY aren’t trying to be a title contender, or even a playoff team. They are a team. Nash gave you his best years, he’s on the downside of his career, at least hook him up and trade him somewhere that he can contend. I know that Phoenix doesn’t owe him anything at all outside of paying him his contract, but from a PR standpoint it could do wonders.

    Something like “Nash has busted his ass for a long time for us. We are rebuilding our team to be a contender in 3-5 years, setting up for when the new CBA numbers really start to hit. Unfortunately, Steve Nash doesn’t have that much time left. We can’t thank him enough for what he’s done, and even though he has never asked for a trade we are sending him to MIami or NY so he can show everyone at DIME named Austin Burton who doubts him for whatever reason when every other person who even remotely knows basketball can tell you Steve Nash made his team better, made crappy players halfway decent and made everyone play above their pay grade. Anyone with one good eye and can tell a basketball from a grape knows Steve Nash makes his team better.”

  • http://Dimemag.com Panchitoooo

    Hey does anyone else remember Dwight sitting on the Magic bench while the Lakers celebrated beating them in the Finals? I guess it was some sort of motivational move to push him to improve but since then he really hasnt done much to step his game up. Those memories must haunt him especially since Stern cut the deal to LA

  • That’s What’s Up

    Big Island – I’m still laughing at the “Bowl of Dick” comment. hey….look at Melo….(chomp chomp)….. He likes it!!

    Chicagorilla – thanks. 2/26, now I know why they’re not shopping Dwight. I mean how bad of a look would it be to have him go to the game wearing another teams jersey.

    Spurs/Portland at 7:30 CST tonight. Should be a good game. No more free league pass but luckily I’ll have the regional coverage.

    Peace y’all, even Beebzy – have a great weekend and celebrate MLK in your own way

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @Big Island — Told ya, I’m not hating on Nash. He does make his teammates better by maximizing their opportunities to score in their comfort zones, just like any great point guard should. That is not in doubt.

    What I’m railing against is this idea that Nash “made” certain people; that Nash could take ANYBODY and turn them into an All-Star; that guys like Matrix and Amar’e, who were good before Nash played with them, NEEDED Nash in order to become All-Star caliber players.

    As we have clearly seen in New York, Amar’e doesn’t NEED Nash in order to be a superstar. Is he BETTER with Nash? Sure. Is he all of a sudden just an average guy without Nash? Hell naw. And that’s what was happening; remember, when Amar’e first signed with NYK, a lot of people were doubting whether he’d be anywhere close to the same player because he was finally playing without Nash. What did Amar’e do? Played better than almost anybody in the NBA for 2/3 of the season until Carmelo came around.

    My issue is after years of hearing about Nash, as you said, making certain players play above their pay grade, now it’s turned into, “He needs help.” Nash ALWAYS needed help; just like Isiah, just like Stockton, just like Magic. People didn’t give Nash’s teammates enough credit before, and now that his teammates aren’t as talented, people are (hopefully) realizing that Nash wasn’t solely responsible for Phoenix’s success.

  • control


    How I would describe what Steve Nash does, is sort of like if it were 2K, and every time you had Nash on the floor, everyone on there with him has their player rating go up 10-15 points. Everyone else gets a little bit better, the game gets a little bit easier and it’s all good. Guys then go out and get paid based on that extra 10-15 points, then when Nash is gone and they lose that point bonus, they look like scrubs compared to their old selves. Nash ain’t the only player in the league who is like this, but he probably has the biggest impact. There are some guys in the league who have the opposite effect, like Kobe, he probably takes away 5-10 points from his teammates, haha.

  • http://Dimemag.com Panchitoooo

    Kobe did caron like that

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @control — That’s what I’m saying, though: 10-15 points is too high. Maybe you weren’t taking the numbers that seriously, but that range you chose does reflect how a lot of people see Nash. Making a 15-point jump from 75 to 90 is like saying Nash could turn Francisco Garcia into Carmelo Anthony.

    Now if we’re talking a 5-point increase, cool. I could see Nash (or any great PG) turning somebody as good as Nick Young into somebody as good as Kevin Martin. But this average-to-All-Star leap is too much.

  • control


    I wouldn’t say he would turn Garcia into Melo, short of putting horse blinders on Garcia and telling him to never pass to teammates, haha. Nash has a heavy impact on his teammate’s scoring, and not their defense, etc…so choosing a broad number like 10-15 might be a little much, maybe you could use 10-15% better, so a 50 guy becomes a 55 guy, etc. Obviously the person getting better has to take full advantage of that, but this is the nba, there are few guys that can’t take advantage of that, 95% of these guys, even the lowest of the low, would tear up 95% of the courts in the world…

    Given what Nash can do now, which is basically just play making and shooting, I want to see him get on a team of solid players, and see what he can do. Right now, if it weren’t for Nash, the Suns would easily be a bottom 3 team in the league. Other than Gortat, I can’t really think of any guys who are starters on any other team. Frye on some teams, maybe.

    I see what you are saying. The guys Nash has made better and gotten paid, were in the nba for a reason, they were decent players. Nash just bumped them up to the next tier, he got them a small % more because he made their game come to them easier. It’s hard to deny that he made people around him better(as you admitted), so why deny that he might (not in all cases, but most) have had a part in them getting more money than they should have?

  • Big Island

    AB – I know you aren’t hating on Nash. But Marion and Amare were made by Steve Nash. Both guys are really good players. But Amare isn’t nearly as scary without Nash, and Marion wasn’t nearly as good without Nash. Some of it is they types of players Amare and Marion are. Neither one is particularly good at creating their own shots, both guys can finish if you get them the ball in a certain spot. Nash does that as well as anyone has. Both of those guys were/are good, but Nash made them both All-NBA material. Amare especially, needs a PG who gets him the ball. Beib’s MVP ain’t helping him out at all.

  • beiber newz

    some1 the otha day said hawes was the missing link or something like that…hawes is a good player…throw his name in the most improved player race.


    You still here, Psycho?
    Just fuck up and die already.
    You’re not wanted here anymore.


  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @Big Island — I can’t agree with that.

    Marion was an All-Star before he ever played with Nash, putting up 19-9-2-2 (blocks and steals) when the Suns still had Marbury at PG. He was a rebounding and defensive beast in his prime, which started before Nash came to Phoenix, and again, how does Nash impact Marion’s rebounding and defense? Marion’s decline began first when he started feeling like Nash and Amar’e got too much attention and it got into his head, and then when he left the Suns SYSTEM that fit him so perfectly. Also, remember that D’Antoni ran Marion into the ground by playing him heavy minutes at a fast pace against guys who were bigger than him (he was playing out of position at PF). And there’s a reason why D’Antoni played Marion so much, even more so than Nash (though I may be wrong; check the stats): The Suns NEEDED Matrix, almost just as much as they needed Nash.

    As for Amar’e, you’re saying he WASN’T scary when he was Rookie of the Year? He WASN’T scary last year in New York? Matter of fact, in one of the best games I’ve ever seen Amar’e play, he put up 49 points against Indiana in a game where Nash only had like 6 assists. Amar’e has been nasty before, during and after his time with Nash.

    Every big man needs a PG to get him the ball to be his MOST effective, so it’s not saying anything new that Amar’e benefitted from Nash. That’s not the argument. But to say Nash “made” Amar’e is just … off.

  • JBaller

    Glad to see most of the discussion os about basketball today. Looking forward to that picnic.

    It’s great to see Bynum playing well, and when he’s healthy he is the second best center in the nba. He can put up huge numbers. That said, Dwight is a monster and consistently puts up huge numbers. They’re down a bit this year but he is the man, no doubt about it. The only thing I don’t like is that he shares the sense of entitlement that Lebron has, like because of his physical gifts he deserves something.

    I know I sound like a broken record but NY is terrible despite their big 2 1/2. No backcourt, no defense, no heart and no gameplan. Nash made Dantoni look better than all those other guys. I haven’t seen them run any sets that look good yet.

  • beiber newz


  • beiber newz

    kobe is on another level….and for kobe that’s something insane to even say.

  • beiber newz

    so can wade eat a bowl of dick too for leaving after the same injury that took anthony out the memphis game? or are we going to be picky?

  • 4m

    Long story short, Nash made those guys reach their full potential. And that full potential carried over for a season or two. After that, steep drop-off.

    And I don’t care how many points this season Kobe ends up having cause half of them will still belong to Vanessa.