Smack / Jan 3, 2012 / 12:24 am

It’s The Return Of The Mac In Atlanta’s Win Over Miami; The Spurs Lose A Game, Lose Manu

Tracy McGrady

Tracy McGrady (photo. Marc Morrison)

In the fourth quarter in South Beach last night, Tracy McGrady outplayed even LeBron James. We shouldn’t have to remind anyone it’s 2012 and not 2003. But watching T-Mac bang threes (he hit a trio of big ones in the fourth quarter), grab rebounds in traffic and close out the Heat for their first loss of the season, we caught a serious case of deja vu. Miami, after looking invincible at times through their first five games, controlled the game throughout the first three quarters. But with McGrady (16 points, seven rebounds, four assists) turning back the clock, Dwyane Wade (12 points, 10 assists) scoring only three points in the second half, and Atlanta shutting down the fast break with a zone defense, the Hawks walked out with a 100-92 win. Miami better get ready to see a lot more of the zone this year. Once ATL hit them with it, the game changed, the Heat slowed down and eventually with Wade struggling, it cost them. LeBron dropped 28, but was nowhere to be seen at the end of the game … Has there ever been a small-ish dude who was better at snuffing big guys at the rim than D-Wade? He had another last night, stopping Vladimir Radmanovic‘s second quarter dunk try. No idea how he continues to do this … A Dallas win was something we all should’ve seen coming. No way would they lose to OKC again, and no way would the newcomers continue to play like garbage. The Mav bench dropped 47 points, and helped push Dallas to a huge 100-87 win over the Thunder. Vince Carter (14 points) drove to the rim harder then he has all season – he had nine free throw attempts. Shawn Marion (17 points) was cooking. And Dirk was Dirk (26 points). On the other side, Russell Westbrook (18 points) had two first half dunks that were vicious. But nobody outside of James Harden, Kevin Durant and Westbrook did much of anything. KD (27 points) in particular gave his best Nick Young impersonation, finishing with only two rebounds and one blocked shot. For once, Dallas didn’t get destroyed inside, and they finally stepped up and matched their opponent’s punches. Every time OKC dipped into the lead, someone from Dallas would make a shot. Late in the fourth, the Mavs turned it over four straight times, but just as the Thunder closed, Dirk checked back in, hit a J and then Shawn Marion dropped his first three of the season to put it away … Round two of the Celtics-Wizards home-and-home series got off to a wild start, as Washington’s Flip Saunders got tossed before half of Boston’s crowd even had the chance to chug their first beer. 106 seconds in, and he was out at midcourt having to be restrained by Andray Blatche. Even without their head coach, the Wizards, led by Blatche (28 points), hung around, entering the fourth quarter up one. But Jesus Shuttlesworth (despite playing with a cold) was too hot all night, shooting six of seven from beyond the arc for 27 points. Allen’s final trey was the dagger, putting the C’s up 9 with 4:30 to play … Greg Steimsma is quickly becoming a fan favorite in Boston, filling the leprechaun role that has been vacant ever since Brian Scalabrine left town. In his first career NBA start, Steimsma posted 13 points, seven rebounds and two blocks … The dirty little secret lost in Washington’s terrible start: JaVale McGee (17 points, 14 rebounds, three blocks) is REALLY coming on. McGee was too athletic for the Celtics, and had two blocks that he had absolutely no business touching. He passed the double-double mark again last night just a minute into the third with a feathery little jumper (Who knew?), and it’s getting to the point where you can book him for an easy double-double every night … Danilo Gallinari (21 points, 10 rebounds) was the key in Denver’s 91-86 win over the Bucks, putting in two tough baskets (that should’ve been and-ones) during a game-deciding 10-0 run late in the fourth. Milwaukee played them tough, but once Al Harrington had back-to-back dunks in the final few minutes, it finally gave the hosts some breathing room. With a chance to tie it in the final minute, Brandon Jennings‘ last-ditch three was off … First San Antonio lost Manu Ginobili for up to two months with a broken fifth metacarpal on his shooting hand after he got his fingers stuck for too long in the cookie jar. Then, Minnesota went out and littered the court with snipers. After not winning a game in what seemed like forever, the Wolves have now won two in a row after lighting up the Spurs on 58 percent shooting in a 106-96 win. Kevin Love (24 points, 15 rebounds, four threes) dominated the old man (Tim Duncan), and even more surprisingly, Luke Ridnour (19 and nine) got the better of the point guard matchup with Tony Parker (11 points, nine assists) … How much longer until New York fans start getting restless? Carmelo Anthony took a ton of shots (13-for-31), scored a lot of points (35 points), but was way off on a rushed potential game-tying three in the final 15 seconds, spoiling the Knicks near 18-point comeback against the Raptors, 90-85. For the Raptors, they twice went to Andrea Bargnani (21 points) in the final minute on pick-n-rolls with Jose Calderon (12 dimes). He came through both times … Phoenix finally got their offense going in a 102-91 win over Golden State. Steve Nash had his best game of the season with 21 points and nine assists … Indiana and Paul George (21 points, five threes) lit up New Jersey, 108-94 … Utah beat New Orleans 92-88 despite Jarrett Jack going off for 27 points and 10 assists … And Ben Gordon had one of his best games since ditching the red, black and white, raining 26 points on Orlando in the Pistons’ 11-point win … We’re out like Flip.

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  • control

    I think the key in Denver’s win was Brandon Jennings. Guy seems to forget that he’s a 5’8, 110lb point guard. With 6 seconds left on clock, being double teamed, and with two guys open beyond the 3…why is he jacking up a contested 3? I wouldn’t even trust him with the shot if he were completely open. Guy was 0-4 at the time, and wasn’t really even close to hitting any of them, Carlos (who was WIDE open) was 3-6. Good judgement Gumby!

    Gumbs there needs to sit down with Tmac or Nash, learn how to be a fucking point guard. The world doesn’t need another 5’6, 100lb shooting guard.

  • beiber newz

    carmelo played another stellar game, just wished he could have sealed the deal with a W. amare needs to come back quickly and help out.

  • Chaos

    @control

    for once i do agree with you about jennings. as much talent as the kid got, he kills me as a player. okay so youre a shoot first pg, but that shouldnt stop you from making good decisions. he seems to always look for a his shot first instead of knowing when to take a shot or get a better shot with one of his teammates. something tells me that kyrie irving may end up do the same thing in cleveland. thats why i have more respect for players like kyle lowery, rondo, d-will and cp3 because they can get their teammates involved and their assists create more points than they score as well as their passes leading to another pass that creates poitns. Even D. rose is becoming more of a pg than a sg playing pg…

    Carmelo did have to take a ton of shots. he did play hard and amare wasnt in a lineup and the only other player is good offensively was toney douglas. lets face it, this team is incomplete. they need a baron, amare and a few good big men off the bench.

    the worst thing is happening for the West, Dallas is getting in shape and finding some rhythm. even tho they are a team full of old guys, these guys are smart and maybe vince and odom may start giving a damn. they have several former all stars in Dirk, kidd, vince, odom, marion and terry (i believe) and they could be more dangerous than ppl give them credit for.

    T-Mac really came on strong and he may just have found a niche in ATL. ATL is playing great D and hopefully they can get over hump

  • control

    I forgot to mention my Raps KILLING those assholes from ny. Like almost all people in ny, the entire team is selfish…the mighty Jose Cauldron nearly got more assists than the entire ny team combined. Is T. Dougles really the starting point guard?

    Chaos

    I agree with you, playmaking first point guards are 10x better than shoot first point guards. Even though I hate on Rondo, mostly because people keep way overhyping him while he’s so flawed, he’s a pure point guard, and I respect that. Of course, if he were a “shoot first” point guard, then they’d have to rename it to “shit pants then heave scurred brick first” point guard.

  • beiber newz

    guys (don’t look at this as patting myself on the back)

    i’m watching tim legler on nba fast break right now, and how he is saying he has jumped on board with rubio. the wolves have now beat the mavs and today the spurs. rubio just ignites the fans, i believe the fans there are inspiring their team’s play.

    but anyway, look at this article where dime was asking if rubio will be a good player or not.

    it’s just cool to look back and see what was written, and my comments are eerily accurate to what is going on now. please, i am not showing this to pat myself on the back, but rather, t show how scary accurate i was with what i said about rubio before he even had a coach that would allow him to do him. and around a time where everyone was a skeptic.

    AND on a side note, this article came out A LONNNG time ago. i was already a full fledged commenter on this site. for all you who think i’m the evil troublemaker on this site because of what spawned from the melo-mvp talks, please take notice of what happened within the comments section on this article….i was called ignorant for making a comparison in one of my comments on that page. how did i respond? well , according to the people here i would’ve been all sensitive and acted childish, well, i just want to make it known for the record that, me the person, would not be parrallel to the descriptions you guys gave me, instead, i responded to the jab like this:

    “i still love you though. i don’t care if you call me ignorant. no need to get into web-wars. it’s corny but obviously cool for some jerks.”

    i am really, truly not the type to enjoy beefs/wars online. but i seemed to have picked up that label within the past few weeks. craziness. anyway without further ado….here is that link. it’s pretty cool to see what was said in JUNE before rubio played any nba basketball.

    http://dimemag.com/2011/06/stud-or-dud-looking-forward-to-ricky-rubio-in-the-nba/

  • knickerbocker

    its funny how some people cant stop patting themselves on the back. control its just one game, your team still sucks and my team will still make the playoffs and probably win a championship. baron is our starting point guard and its being said hes in the best shape of his career. maybe even a top 5 point guard when hes back. passing to melo and amare, will lead the league in assists.

  • beiber newz

    his team is the raptors? everything has just got made clear to me….everything.

  • knickerbocker

    everything but grammar. he said about 4 times that kobe dropped 81 on his team. not good at reading or dont know kobe very well?

  • s.bucketz

    Melo is selfish as shit..i can’t stand i…and when amare gets back we have a border line retard on defense on the court

    The knicks suck and will continue to suck until they stop switching on EVERY screen like a bunch of pussy farts

  • Hi, Jurg from Denmark

    Hi hi from Jurg

    And ha ha ha I laugh at you joke like other do mr kickerbocker.

    Arriba mr mr Rubio

    From your Jurgo

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7Er5TsQrGg alf (from melmak)

    Old dogs will always have one of those days where the basketball gods will let them shine. Such was the case for Tracy McGrady and even Vince Carter. Geez. I never thought I would say McGrady and Carter in the same sentence.

    Quick trivia: JaVale McGee over the next few months will possibly become a citizen of the Philippines and play for its basketball team in international competitions. According to some articles I read on the internet, negotiations are currently ongoing.

    I am all for basketball going global but negotiating for someone to become a citizen of its country to play basketball is a bit questionable.

    McGee is set to earn $2.46 million and on the last year of his contract. I do not know if he has any endorsement deals. But I do believe, some teams will be after him when becomes a free agent. So what kind of deal is he looking for if he ever plays for the Philippines?

    To stretch the argument, what if some rich country suddenly approaches a Derrick Rose and offers him $100 million, become a citizen of their country, and play for its basketball team in international competitions over the next two years? Would he say no?

  • Franchise

    Damn Biebs, u never learn do you? Then u wonder why people shit on u. seriously?

    I feel bad whenever i read about T-Mac. What coulda been, SMH. Now him gettin 16pts is a big deal. damn.

    I have to eat a ton of humble pie when it comes to K Love. I steadfastly maintained all year last year in debates with my boys that he was having a David Lee sorta kinda phase and he would drop off again, but damn, kid is legit. LA should go after him lol. Calderon gets clowned alot but he’s a true playmaker for all of his defensive woes and lack of athleticism.

    Getting citizens of other nations to ball for your country is lame IMO. where’s the national pride? i’d rather live and die with my people than import sum American who by the way all alonem in FIBA basketball, wont do much.

  • Franchise

    A random non-hoops issue i need yall to help me out with:

    So i had this chic 4 most of last year, but due to a bunch of reasons i wont get into here i called it off, she was disappointed but was cool wid it, we even remained friends. On New Year’s Eve we ran into each other at a party and during the course of convo she says she wants us to be friends with benefits and she’s serious. needless to say i got lucky that nite.

    Next day, i call her up and ask her if last night had more to do with booze than actual reasoning and she says she meant it and she wants the FWB, and we can both see other pple. i tell her im an all-or-nothing dude and i wouldnt want to share her with other dudes, so no thanx, and she says aight she’ll be exclusive to me, but i get to mess around all i want…….now i know obvious thing is to take full advantage, but im into chess, u know one play sets up the next and so on, so for the life of me i cant figure out why she’d pull this on me. my friends havent been much help either, . jus tellin me to hit it and be happy jus doesnt do it for me. i think therez something else goin on here

    anywho, drop a line, tell me what to make of it. will be well appreciated coz its buggin me out.

  • Franchise

    Due to a serious disparity in time zones coz of where im at right now, might delay gettin back to yall, but i will check back one way or the other. holla

  • control

    Franchise

    Time to mannnnnn up son! Usually thinking with your dick ain’t a good look, but if your ex is aight, that pussy warm and wet, then get yours and put a hurting on that thing. I’ve been in that same situation quite a few times, and I’ve turned it down a few times…I regret the ones I turned down 100000000x more than the ones I didn’t. Even if the sex was bad, it’s amazing what a steady stream of getting laid will do for your “game”. It increases your confidence at least 100%, it also takes away that edge of desperation that you will eventually develop from chronic masturbation. That desperate aura, combined with sores from jerkin too much will make picking up women as hard as Rondo making a fucking free throw. Once you get into that slump, it’s game over, you’d need an intervention and/or paying a hooker to get out of that rut. Think with your dick man, it’s got the right play in this situation!

  • control

    Is that the real Jurg, or one of QQ’s personalities?

  • http://Dimemag.com Panchitoooo

    Franchise
    Definetly fuck away! But on the very first sign of drama i suggest you leave it alone again. If shes not your girl them why bother with any shit. 1st off tell her dont call during her period unless she plan on giving head for at least an hour. And make sure you smash any other time you see her cause if not then why are you there? And condoms condoms condoms that shit will save you stress later on. And if you get a chance put her on her knees and spin dick slap her, yup do a spin and slap her with it. Its sure to make her feel real classy

  • That’s What’s Up

    I wonder if DIME can roll out a SMACK JR. strictly for beiber, that way he can just post and respond to himself and leave everyone else out of it

  • http://www.psychodrama.com Chicagorilla

    @DIME

    Javel McGee has always had a nice jumper. Thats actually been the problem. He doesn’t have the post game he should because he spends too much time facing up 15ft away from the basket.
    Javel’s per 36min averages would put him at double double status already. He just never got the floor time.

    I watched a large part of that Spurs vs TWolves game, and Tim Duncan spent absolutely no time guarding Kevin Love. Dejuan Blair and Tiago Splitter were the ones trying to guard Love. Duncan spent a majority of his time on Darko.

    Lastly
    Everyone always gets on Westbrook for not being a playmaker for his teammates, but No one…and I mean NO ONE says shyt about Kevin Durant never having assist. Or even a more complete game. They spend too much time blaming Westbrook for OKC’s troubles.

    While the 7ft Kevin Durant barely gets 6 rebounds per game. He has the ball in his hands all game long yet Durant can’t get more than 3asst per game? And the thing that irks me the most about Durant is his not being a %50 FG shooter. With the size advantage he has over everyone guarding him, and the amount of FT Attempts he gets (which negate the missed shots if he gets fouled) there is no reason he should have a better FG%.

  • ztrini

    Franchise

    Her game is that she wants you, and is willing to settle for sharing you.
    1. If you are an all or nothing guy as you state. Then shouldn’t you be looking for a woman that is selfish enough and values herself enough to expect you to remain committed.

    2. If you decide to go ahead with this situation then her game may be to lock you down with a child.

    Either way, as fine as this woman may be, something is wrong for her to be willing to settle for that arrangement. My advice “RUN”

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7Er5TsQrGg alf (from melmak)

    @ Franchise

    She wants to record what you two do in bed and sell it for a profit. (Insert David Letterman laugh)

    Seriously though, you said you are in a different time zone. So, if you are in any of these countries, consider yourself lucky because women far outnumber men in these locations.

    The list includes Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Estonia, Hungary,Lithuania, Latvia, New Zealand, and San Marino.

    Bottomline – There are more women than men in the world. Considering the gay population is rising fast makes the situation more to a man’s advantage. Only make out with a woman if there is an emotional attachment. Otherwise, ditch her.

  • http://www.psychodrama.com Chicagorilla

    @Franchise

    Don’t do it. It’s a trap. First off, she will f%ck other dudes. It’s a given. Secondly, STDs are real my friend. And some of them can’t be stopped by a condom. Leave that b!tch alone, trust me. That’s exactly how i ended up with my daughter 7yrs ago.

    @cotnrol
    I didn’t watch but a small sample of the Nuggets vs Bucks game but I disagree with you on BJ. I don’t think he’s a shoot first PG. Scott Skiles system is geared around the guards scoring, so he’ll put up points no matter what. But BJ really is a great passer (better than Rose and Westbrook IMO) and sees the floor well. BJ’s only problem is his decision making when it comes to the type of shots he takes. I think i watched that exact same part of the game that you did when BJ drove the lane and took that terrible contested shot.
    BJ needs to really take some time out and learn the game from a real PG. The Euro thing was good for him, but he needs a lot more polish on his game to become the all-star his talents could allow him to be.

    @BNews
    come on man, I know you wrote that you wasn’t patting yourself on the back but that entire post reads EXACTLY like you’re patting yourself on the back.
    You aren’t the only person who said Rubio would be good. You aren’t the only person who said Melo would be good. You aren’t the only person who said the Lakers will stuggle or that the trade hurt them.

    Speaking of which, Rubio is a #5 pick. It’s not like you are stepping out on a limb by saying he’s going to be good. Apparently GMs thought he would be good also if they made the fool the #5 pick!
    And reading your 1st post in the article, you seem to be taking credit for making the call on Brandon Jennings. Who also was a top 3 player coming out of HS, and the #10 pick in the draft. So again, not really going out on a limb there.

    Furthermore, in the article you are comparing Rubio to Pistol Pete. The Pistol was a known scorer (42ppg in college) and a flashy ball hog in the NBA who’s teammates hated playing with him. As Unchecked Aggression pointed out. Yet you are claiming that you were “on point” in your discovery of Rubio’s talents.

  • K Dizzle

    1) B Jennings has some of the worst decision making a point guard can. Everybody who ever played or coached or seen a hoops game knows the most dangerous player is the inbounder. Especially when dude has hit 3 of 6 from deep. Seriously, if you bored, go check out the nba.com hilite from this game to see just how ridiculously open Delfino was. Bucks need to throw in Beno or Livingston at crunch time cuz Jennings doesn’t get it….and why is Bogut barely crackin double digits in shots when he’s the team’s best player???

    2) I’m not mad at Melo cuz Amare being out is his excuse to get shots up. It worked against Boston so I don’t know why Knick fans are trippin. Unless you think Bill Walker should be throwing up shots. Raps executed in crunchtime. That’s why the Knicks lost. Shit, Knicks were down 17 and came back to tie it up…

    3) The Bargnani/Calderon pick n roll-pop-fade is murder. AB had Chandler on the one-on-one matchup, put the rock on the wood, got him off-balance, then put a fade over him. That never happens to Chandler n AB made it look easy.
    Calderon gets shit on cuz his defense ain’t all that, but u can’t front on dude’s effort. His positioning is on point 95% of the time. Don’t know if it’s a contract year or what, but JC runnin the point like he invented it.

    4) Finally, we get the Heat’s weakness…zone defense. If you gonna depend on James Jones n Battier to space out the floor all season, there’s gonna be some losses. If the next team don’t try a zone to start the game, their coach should be fired

    5) Totally on Flip’s side of that b.s. ejection, Rashard gets crossbody blocked, kid fouls him and falls on him, and there’s no call? Refs show that kinda disrespect 1 min in, on the road in Boston, your coach needs to make a stand. Wiz responded n only Ray kept that a w for Boston…

    6) One more thing, can we please stop cryin about Rubio to start? He’s lookin good out there, but it’s a whole different ballgame startin out vs CP3, DWill, Rose, Rondo, Westbrook, Holiday than comin in versus the 2nd unit. What’s the rush anyways? As a Laker fan, I hope the Wolves keep pilin up wins so that Wolves pick the NBA stole from the Clips is as useless as possible…so yeah, Go Wolves!!! lol

  • K Dizzle

    @ Franchise – I’ll tell you everything you need to know if you tell me how old she is…

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7Er5TsQrGg alf (from melmak)

    @ Chicagorilla

    (Nodding in approval at the Beiber comment). Best thing to do is ignore the person.

    Anyway, if you want an example of a shoot first point guard look no further than Devin Harris.

  • Franchise

    Fellas…..

    Thanx for the input. much appreciated. seems so far the “nay” count is winning. ‘least yall have legit reasoning for ur choices, unlike my bone-headed friends. she’s fine (a hard 8 by consensus from all my boys) but i’m also feelin therez sumthing a miss here. i mean i know for a fact therez like 3 dudes chasing her ever since we broke up so its not due to a lack of other options. Keep having these scenes flashing in my head of her stabbing in the night or sum ish like that. Wisest thing to do here would be to run for the hills. I already got a couple breezys lined up so it aint like im starving for it. Im running!!

    @Dizzle she’s 20, still in college (where i went too)

    @Panchitoooo damn thats cold bruh lol

  • http://www.psychodrama.com Chicagorilla

    @KDizzle

    I won’t argue that point on BJennings. Kid clearly isn’t the best when it comes to IQ. But he’s only 22yrs old. Again, this is my problem with dudes coming into the NBA so early. They can play sure, the rules are especially geared towards making athletic guys look better than what their skill set suggest. I just don’t understand why these kids don’t take the time out to develope their game. Too much AAU/shoe camp/pick up ball growing up has made them believe they are Gods on the court. But as soon as someone asks them to execute a fundamental move/play they spaz the fluck out because they have no idea what that is.

    It’s embrassing that a guy like Ricky Rubio comes to America and says that the NBA game is easier than the Euro game (although i don’t think its true). It shouldn’t even be a question honestly. But I have faith in the newest crop of young stars (Rose, Durant, Blake) because they seem to really take the game serious. Each year I have seen them all improve upon the last year since their HS years (Especially Rose). We could be looking at a new age in basketball where the athleticism and Skills mesh together and one is not greater than the other. Sorta like the 80’s/90’s.

  • Franchise

    @Chi i couldn’t agree more, i’ve called out Durant too before (not here on Dime) about him being too one-dimensional with the scoring. With that kinda length, and having the ball so much, he SHOULD have ‘least 9/10reb 6ast a contest averages. Come to think of it last season was supposed to be his comin out party, rounding out the other areas of his game and winning MVP and all according to talking heads. dint happen. as awesome as he is now anyone got the jitters that he never makes the leap to All-World full-blown superstar like MJ/Kobe?

    And Zone-up on the Heatles!! Everyone playing them from here on should just go zone ’till they figure out a way to break it down.

  • north

    I think Jennings still has that chip on his shoulder. It’s the same one that sent him overseas and not to college. I don’t know who spurned the kid when he was younger but it’s affected his game to this date.
    The Jennings that goes to college is a better PG than the one who skipped the pond. We’ll never know that one sadly. He could have been great.

    TMac threw a sick oop to Smoove to finish that game last night. He was all smiles on the sidelines. It felt good. If he can shoot “Jamal” styles like last night but be the playmaker that he’s always been ATL has themselves another 6th Man candidate.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    And in other news, LBJ has said that the 2012 Olympic team might be the best team ever assembled.

    What’s he smoking?

  • calvin brodus

    too much sleeping on the nuggs. jennings didnt lose that game, denver won it (on a back-to-back-to-back, no less). kobe didnt lose the game for them on sunday, the nuggs won it. denver is deep and hasnt even come close hitting their stride yet. their three point shooting has been terrible, below 30% as a team. and their still sitting at 4-2.

    this team is way better after the melo trade than they were before. and im not saying that denver is hoisting a banner after this season for sure, but its a possibility. but i can promise melo will NEVER get ny a banner, ever.

    ny has fools gold in their hands.

  • Soopa / b_malte

    Was it only me who noticed that Devin Harris’ picture was displayed instead of Wes Johnson’s when TV showed the Wolves starting lineup? Talk about lack of respect. It was hilarious tho’.

    Wolves takeout Mavs, Spurs and got a legit shot at Memphis tonight at home. Kahn, for all the shit he gets, has assembled a good, exciting and young team.
    Rubio is GOOD. Love is GOOD. The crowd is into the games.

    They got that OKC-ish smell all over them, where this year they get stomped (lets be realistic), next year they sneak into the playoffs and in two years they are to be reckoned with.

    BUT if they keep winning their home game, get a few on the road (which i where i think they will have an extremely hard time) who knows where they’ll end up this year. Maybe Memphis plummets and Wolves sneak in with an 8th seed? Okay, I got carried away, but you get my point.

    I just snagged Caldaron for Jennings in my fantasy league. High five me someone!!!

  • Soopa / b_malte

    *correction*

    Wolves-Grizzlies is tomorrow.

  • http://www.psychodrama.com Chicagorilla

    @calivin

    settle down homie. I saw the stats of how the nuggets were a better team after Melo. And I don’t think anyone questions that they would be a better team with all that talent they recieved in the trades. The problem with that Denver team is that they don’t have a superstar. When the game is on the line, it’s not Denvers to win, it’s the other teams Superstar to lose.

    This Denver team reminds me of the Chicago Bull teams that went to the playoffs a few years before Rose was drafted. They were the perfect core of good-great role players. They could would a game just because the other team doesn’t know who to focus their attention on. Every night a different player stepped up. But when they ran into teams with Superstars that also had good role players, they would get beat.

    This Denver nuggets team will be good. But they need a superstar to get them over the hump to Championship level. Ironically, the KNicks have a star player but don’t have the role players needed to be a great team.
    That’s why it was so stupid for melo to ask to be traded there. It made no sense because NY would give up all their valuable players in order to get Melo which would leave him in the same losing situation (1st/2nd rnd playoff exits) he was in in Denver!

    On top of that, Dwight Howard is doing the same thing in requesting to be traded to LA or NJ. They both would completely deplete their teams of quality players and draft picks in order to get him. which would then put the teams out of title contention (in LAs case).

  • http://www.psychodrama.com Chicagorilla

    @calivin

    settle down homie. I saw the stats of how the nuggets were a better team after Melo. And I don’t think anyone questions that they would be a better team with all that talent they recieved in the trades. The problem with that Denver team is that they don’t have a superstar. When the game is on the line, it’s not Denvers to win, it’s the other teams Superstar to lose.

    This Denver team reminds me of the Chicago Bull teams that went to the playoffs a few years before Rose was drafted. They were the perfect core of good-great role players. They could would a game just because the other team doesn’t know who to focus their attention on. Every night a different player stepped up. But when they ran into teams with Superstars that also had good role players, they would get beat.

    This Denver nuggets team will be good. But they need a superstar to get them over the hump to Championship level. Ironically, the KNicks have a star player but don’t have the role players needed to be a great team.
    That’s why it was so stupid for melo to ask to be traded there. It made no sense because NY would give up all their valuable players in order to get Melo which would leave him in the same losing situation (1st/2nd rnd playoff exits) he was in in Denver!

    On top of that, Dwight Howard is doing the same thing in requesting to be traded to LA or NJ. They both would completely deplete their teams of quality players and draft picks in order to get him. which would then put the teams out of title contention (in LAs case).

  • Celts Fan

    His name is The Steimer and, unlike Scal, who was USELESS, he can actually play. We desperately need a defensive presence in the middle as KG and JO’s knees continue to turn to dust and we need a sundial to measure the time it takes ‘em to rotate. He’s nothing spectacular, but he can protect the rim a bit and give us some D.

  • First & Foremost

    Durant is the do-no-wrong player in the NBA. Humble, great work ethic, visible tat free, kisses his mom during games, survived a horrendous losing season, down to earth kid who isn’t out getting in trouble and not an attention whore.

    He is the anti-Lebron. Lebron gets ZERO passes in the media whenever he doesn’t post new career highs. Durant gets every pass even when he posts career lows.

    As for his stats, we all agree that he is a prolific scorer. ANything else he does is just extra. Lebron is a playmaker when the ball is in his hands. His role is to create for the team. Durant’s role has been and will always be create for himself. Since he is so great as a scorer and should have an easier shot over any/all defenders, you can’t reason that him creating a shot for someone else has a better chance of going in than creating a shot for himself. Hence why his assists generally come from fastbreaks and not breaking down a defense.

    Look at Durant’s “growth” in the league. All he does is find a new way for him to score. Reports rarely come out and game tape rarely reviels him being a better passer/defender/rebounder. But none of that matters because as garnett eloquently put it… “He is like Michael {Expletive] Jordan out there.” So please, fall back and allow the man to be one dimensional in piece.

  • K Dizzle

    @ Franchise – You can tap it if you just need to bust, but I wouldn’t be gettin any kinda attached to that. Any girl that gives you the ok to get yours on the side but is sayin she only gonna be bangin you either got alterior motives or else she don’t think you’ll find out about what she gettin on the side. Shady situation…

    @ Rilla – totally agree on athleticism vs hoops iq.
    You can watch a player once(Steph Curry, Durant, Melo) and know they still gonna be a force when their hops/speed are gone, then you watch other players(J.R. Smith, Westbrook, DeAndre Jordan) and know that they toast as soon as they hit 30+…
    I shake my head at it. When I see that Gerald Green got cut AGAIN by my Lakers. How can you run n jump like it’s breathing, but you don’t know when to pass, when to attack the rim, when to pull up for a jumpshot, when to set a pick, when to set a pick then roll, or fade…
    God gotta be lookin down on dude like “I gave you EVERYTHING. How you keep messin this up?”

  • http://www.psychodrama.com Chicagorilla

    @Fnf

    lol, Yeah I have no doubt about why he gets a pass. And honestly I can understand it somewhat. It’s not like he’s out there boasting about being the best in the NBA or getting “the Chosen one” tatted on his back.

    But neither is Russell Westbrook. I just don’t see why people get on Russ so much like he’s the only problem with OKC. Maybe Russ will never be a full fledged PG. Doesn’t that mean Durant should learn some playmaking skills. One of the reasons I began to respect Dirk Diggler is because in the last couple of years he’s learned how to create shots for his teammates. He may not be Chris Webber in the high post, but Dirk does make the correct pass in order to set up teammates.
    That, and some more rebounds/defense is all i ask of Durant before I crown him the best in the NBA. If you ask any NBA HOFer (off the record of course), they would tell you the same.

    How is Blake Griffin a better play maker already than Durant? It shouldn’t be that way. I love Durants game but if he doesn’t expand it, guys like Rose and Griffin will leave him in the dust.

    side note:

    Did anyone see Derrick Williams dunk off the lob (i think it was Rubio who threw it)? That shyt was SICK!

    @DIME
    Watching the KNicks vs Raptors highlights, I just keep thinking “If I could combine these two teams, they would be the best in the NBA”. Which brought up an idea.
    You guys should do an article on teams you could combine to make them much better (taking the best from a good and bad team). Sorta like if the league contracted.
    Teams like
    The Knicks and Raptors
    The Suns and Magic
    The Spurs and Warriors
    The Hornets and Bulls
    The Lakers and Kings
    The Heat and Cavs
    The Celtics and Nets
    Maybe i’ll try this in NBA 2k12.

  • beiber newz

    @JAY it can be up for debate in regards to the olympic team, it shouldn’t be looked at as him talking crazy, the dream team can always make the case they were better simply because jordan was on the team. but even calangelo said parrells can be drawn.

  • Big Island

    First of all, Dime is going to ban you guys if you keep talking bad about Jennings. I don’t get the love affair with that guy at all.

    Dirk.

    We’ve all played with guys who had GAME, but could never play in a system of any kind. I played with a guy who would light up legit D1 guys and even some NBA guys like it was nothing. He was 6’4″, nice handle, hops, strong, could pass, rebound, score from anywhere, everything. But he had no idea how to run an offense or play within a defense. I never understood it and he never got out of juco.

    Franchise – Don’t do it dude. You can bang an ex, but the FWB NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER, let’s see, nope EVER EVER, there we go, works. It might work for awhile, but it will end badly. I am the relationship guy, never really do the whole just hanging out thing, but if she doesn’t want to get back together, she is gonna bang other guys. You’ll be left thinking “why doesn’t she want to fuck me over that guy” and crap like that. Then you start drinking, getting fat, talking about how you used to play ball, come up with a screen name like Big Island and start rambling on Dime. It doesn’t end well. Um, hypothetically speaking of course…

  • http://www.psychodrama.com Chicagorilla

    @the Dream team thing

    Am I the only one who doesn’t want their star player from their favorite team (in my case Derrick Rose) suiting up for the 2012 Olympics after this 66 game condensed season?

    Derrick was already worn out after last year, the one thing i don’t want to see is him cutting his summer short in order to play for the USA team. Knowing DRose, he’ll play anyway, but Im hoping he doesn’t.

    As for the Dream Team comparison….HELL NO! Not even close. This team wouldn’t even be as good as Dream Team 2. The Reason being, they don’t all know how to play ball. Quite a few of them are just flat out athletes (Lebron, Dwight) unlike the 92′ team who had all skilled players plus Christian Laetnner lol.

    Lebrons an idiot. He clearly hasn’t learned his lesson from last year or after seeing Vince Young curse the Eagles this year.

    speaking of which. He claims he wants to not be the villian this year. And I noticed the media keeps trying to show images/videos of him smiling during games. Pretending like he’s having fun and didn’t do the same shyt last year. But during games he’s still being the dyckhead he’s always been. Celebrating dunks by starring into the crowd like he’s playing in some charity game an is waiting on the crowd of kids to rush the court and hug him.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    Sorry beib. Looking at both rosters… if we are only talking about the guards then maybe we can argue. But looking at the entire rosters the Barcelona team blows them out of the water.

    On the upcoming team, name one big not named Dwight Howard who could be considered, just CONSIDERED, among the best to ever play. Bosh? (kidding)
    What about the Barcelona team…… Charles, Malone, Admiral, Ewing.
    The GOAT, arguably the best defender, the best PF to that point, the 2 best point guards ever, and a couple of the best centers to ever play <– that's what the Barcelona team had. Please go through what this year's team has.

    And of course Colangelo believes this roster can be compared to the Barcelona team… he's building the team!! He's like a parent who thinks their kid is the smartest, cutest kind in the school. It's called pride.

  • SWAT

    Lmao at big isle!! But dude has a point. franchise, FWB never works fam. At some point somebody catches feelings. Like the saying goes “u can’t hv ur cake and eat it too” sadly, it doesn’t work like tht. I had to place a restraining order on someone I thought we had a pretty clear arrangement, but nope. Fwb is a drug tht turns ugly, quick!! And ck this the last email she sent me said something like “a man should never make someone fall for them, if they have no intention of catching them” man it really made me feel like shit, even though tht wasn’t the case or deal. Jus save ur self the headaches my dude.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    And like Chi said, the basketball IQ on that Barcelona team was through the fuckin roof. They all had killer floor-games. They weren’t just trying to outrun, or outjump anyone.

    I’m looking at last two USA teams and trying to create their best team. Fuck, it’s not even close. I laugh when I look at the PFs, and see Bosh’s name. Malone could give him a run for his money TODAY, nevermind ’92 Malone.

  • http://www.psychodrama.com Chicagorilla

    @JAy

    I suspect BNews is a bit young, maybe thats why he doesn’t understand how far off he (Lebron or Jerry) is with the comparison to the real Dream Team.

    Thinking about a match up Karl Malone vs Chris Bosh is f^cking hilarious. It would be absolute Murder. Not even just on the offensive end for Malone, but on defense too. Malone was strong, quick and savvy. Bosh would get stripped while going up to shoot half the time. I’m sure ALF or any Utah fan can attest to Malones quick hands and ability to strip bigs on the way up.

    and Dwight vs Ewing/DRob is just wrong. Dwight would get bucket after bucket dropped on him, and because these guys are strong and athletic (DRob matches Dwight easy) Dwight doesn’t have a chance to score on them. Not to mention Dwight doesn’t even get the ball on the USA teams.

  • JBaller

    Damn the Knicks suck! That game last night was horrible. Melo scoring 35 points on 31 attempts is not gonna win too many games. As I’ve said all along Dantoni doesnt seem to have a game plan and NY looks lost out there.

    Its fun watching the Nuggets play at home. Last nights game was ugly but they have unlimited confidence that they can pull it out in Denver. The altitude is definitely a factor. Denver is a mile high, I live at 9000′ so when I go down to the city I feel stronger, but when dudes come up here they get winded fast. Same as if you come to Denver from sea level.

    @Franchise
    Friends with benefits only lasts a couple of rounds before it gets weird and one or both of you bails, so take it while you can get it then be ready to walk away at the first sign of trouble.

  • beiber newz

    lebron wasn’t accurate for saying the ’12 olympic team wuld be betta, if that’s what he said. but i just said he shouldnt be said that he was smoking is all. and HAHA @ the colangelo-parent-baby thing. that’s EXACTLY wht i thought when i read that he said that.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    @knickerbocker Re: Kobe’s 81

    So according to you control has incorrectly stated 4 times, that Kobe scored 81 against “his team”, the Raptors.

    If he’s wrong, can you please tell me which team he dropped the 81 on? If there’s one thing a Raptor fan will remember it’s one of the freakiest nights we’ve ever seen; when Kobe dropped 81 on us.
    I’m pretty sure (like 180% sure) it was former Raptor coach Sam Mitchell who said before, during and after the game that the plan was to “let Kobe have his and stop everyone else”, which is why they never double-teamed him until 4 minutes left, when he was already pushing 70.

    If control is wrong, then I’ve been wrong since January 22nd, 2006. Please correct my memory… who did the 81 points come against?

  • Chaos

    Did anyone else notice that the miami announce kept calling joe johnson “jim johnson”? Idiot

    @Franchise I was in a similar situation…she she was bad and had some great punanni but I figured it would get worse because she will call and want u when she wants u which will turn out to be all the time which cuts out the amount of time u have to bang other chicks (aside from working and playing ball). My advice leave it alone.

  • http://www.psychodrama.com Chicagorilla

    @Jay

    I’m pretty sure Knickerbocker was trying to say that -BNews- should have noticed that -control- was referenced the 81pts over and over. So how did -BNews- not know that the Raptors were -controls- team?

    At least thats what I got from the whole exchange.

  • First & Foremost

    @Franchise, make that a Dime Mailbag question.

  • Mt. Pleasant

    People give Durant a pass for less assists because he’s a forward and people expect more assists from Westbrook because he’s a point guard.

    People will give a point guard a pass for low assists if his team sucks but its tougher if he plays with a premier scorer who sometimes doesnt get the ball.

    Durant’s assists per game among forwards is actually pretty good.

    Though it would obviously help OKC if he was more well rounded.

  • Franchise

    LOL @Big Island…..

    Dime Fam i hear u guys. Being a dude, its hella tempting, i mean free tail whenever i want it without the commitment. Heaven. But like SWAT (preach bruh!!) said no way of having your cake and eating it so, im gonna have to let it go. Aint nothing worse in life than regret. And i don’t need her dropin those lines on me. Thats the kinda shit that makes u never wanna get into a relationship again. ‘least thats settled.

    Much obliged for the responses fellas. If i could, i’d buy yall a round

  • http://deleted dagwaller

    @ Chi – lots of people said that Rubio would be good, but not too many people called that Ridnour would still be valuable! lol just messin dude

  • Franchise

    @FnF…..Dime Mailbag?? enlighten me.

    And about Durant im not even trying to attack him. Personality–wise i think every NBA player could pick a leaf from his down-to-earth attitude, work ethic and dedication to the game. He’s a good dude. However, the other facets of his game not named scoring could use some work.

    Think of it this way; if you were hired by a company straight outta college but within a month or two the top brass sees your so good they make u the Vice President, the question is would u chill out and say i made it, im VP at such a young age etc etc, or wud u keep gunning to become CEO and run the damn ship?? Durant is a heck of a player already, but he aint touching the MJ/Bird/Kobe stratosphere if he doesn’t up his D, rebounding and play-making. The fact that he’s such a good player and person should only strengthen his resolve to be the very best, not dampen it.

  • silky

    damn the knicks looked stagnant last night. that ball goes to melo and its 4 dudes watching. they gotta get healthy quick.

    watching highlights- its hilarious watching bosh dunk in traffic… looks like his legs shatter everytime he lands like sam jackson in unbreakable and he’s floppin around like a fish outta water. second that call about that mismatch of him and malone on the defensive end, was thinking the same thing, esp with all bosh’s offensive move initiated by swinging the ball thru and having it out in front. strippin that was malone’s forte

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    @Franchise.
    I was in that same situation years back. Sometimes FWBs do work. To keep shit between you two neutral, you gotta always talk about your other sexcapades, and how much you love having access to a buffet as opposed to having the same meal day after day (hypothetically speaking of course). The crazy thing is it almost got me a 3some. The FWBs girl saw a pic of one “other” girl and wanted to join in. I asked the other girl and she thought my friend and I were gross… but I was so close!!
    As long as you tell her how many girls you get she’ll never want a relationship. What’s the worse that can happen? The FWB routine might run out, but it will end because of you being a jerk, not because she wants more than friendship.

    Follow through with it if she’s fine and you will have a jump off, and no chance of a relationship. As long as you follow the rules, it’s a win/win.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    If you add Amar’e and Blake to the 2012 Olympic team, they could be considered the most talented — and close to the best overall — team of all-time.

    People forget about Amar’e because he’s missed the last couple of USA outings, but if Colangelo lets him on (I kinda feel like he’s already indicated Amar’e is out for life), it changed the whole front line. Say what you want about his defense and rebounding, but Amar’e is just as talented as Karl Malone, Duncan, Barkley, etc., if not more talented. LeBron will essentially be playing power forward on Team USA, and he’s more talented than any of the forwards on the original Dream Team. Throw in somebody like Blake Griffin, whom everyone on here seems to agree can be an all-time great, along with Dwight Howard and the frontcourt can compete with the ’92 squad.

    As previously mentioned, the 2012 guards have just as much talent (if not more) than the ’92 guards. And if you were picking one coach to lead your team into one game with everything on the line, a lot of people would take Coach K over Chuck Daly.

  • beiber newz

    atlanta beat miami, ready to see if they can take those talents to chicago tonight.

  • cesar

    detroit pistons = red, blUE and white

  • First & Foremost

    @Franchise
    http://dimemag.com/2011/12/dimebag-the-weekly-dime-mailbag-volume-xiv/

    Durant by design doesn’t have to step up in those areas. When we talk about him it usually revolves around, “he is the best scorer in the league.” You can’t say he is the best player because all he does is score. No all defense 5th team. No double digit assist games. He has had huge rebounding games but not like that is the norm.

    The Team is built for him to focus on what he does best. If Durant was a playmaker, maybe the Thunder can afford to trade away WB for picks. If Durant could play post defense, maybe they keep Jeff Green and let Durant play the 4. However, his team doesn’t need him to be the player that Lebron is. Durant is an ISO player but his personality and team structure forces people to just accept him for what he is.

    If was a wonderkin VP, I’d be the longest tenured VP in company history. I’d probably even go down as the best VP. I may want to be CEO one day, tell a few people here and there but if it doesn’t happen so be it. I’m still one of the best VPs ever. Even if Durant rounds out his game, would it ever be put on display? The CEO might be only 5 years older than I am. I may never get the opportunity.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    Matter of fact, let’s compare the 1992 team to the (likely) 2012 team:

    *** *** ***

    POINT GUARDS
    Magic Johnson (retired)
    John Stockton (30 y/o, 17 ppg, 14 apg, 3 spg)

    Chris Paul (15 ppg, 10 apg, 2.5 spg)
    Deron Williams (20 ppg, 10 apg, 1 spg)
    Derrick Rose (25 ppg, 7 apg, 1 spg)

    *** *** ***

    SHOOTING GUARDS
    Michael Jordan (30 ppg, 6 rpg, 6 apg, 2 spg)
    Clyde Drexler (30 y/o, 25 ppg, 6 rpg, 6 apg, 2 spg)

    Kobe Bryant (34 y/o, 25 ppg, 5 rpg, 4.5 apg, 1 spg)
    Dwyane Wade (30 y/o, 25 ppg, 6 rpg, 4.5 apg, 1.5 spg)

    *** *** ***

    SMALL FORWARDS
    Scottie Pippen (21 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 7 apg, 2 spg)
    Chris Mullin (25 ppg, 5 rpg, 3 apg, 2 spg)
    Larry Bird (35 y/o, 20 ppg, 9 rpg, 7 apg, 1 spg)

    Kevin Durant (27 ppg, 6 rpg, 2 apg, 1 spg)
    Carmelo Anthony (25 ppg, 7 rpg, 3 apg, 1 spg)

    *** *** ***

    POWER FORWARDS
    Charles Barkley (23 ppg, 11 rpg, 4 apg)
    Karl Malone (28 ppg, 11 rpg, 3 apg)
    Christian Laettner (college)

    LeBron James (26.5 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 7 apg, 1.5 spg)
    Blake Griffin (22 ppg, 12 rpg, 4 apg)
    Amar’e Stoudemire (25 ppg, 8 rpg, 2.5 apg)

    *** *** ***

    CENTERS
    Patrick Ewing (30 y/o, 24 ppg, 11 rpg, 3 bpg)
    David Robinson (23 ppg, 12 rpg, 4.5 bpg)

    Dwight Howard (23 ppg, 14 rpg, 2.5 bpg)
    Kevin Love (20 pts, 15 rpg, 0.5 bpg)

    The ’92 team is obviously older (or more experienced, depending on how you want to look at it). Magic was already retired. Bird had just wrapped up his final NBA season. Ewing, Drexler and Stockton had just turned 30. Mullin had just wrapped up his last great season; he was never the same after ’92. And throw in that Jordan, Pippen and Drexler were all coming off grueling NBA Finals runs.

    When you look at each player on paper and think about their overall career, the ’92 team wins convincingly. But consider the other factors of age, injuries (e.g. Bird’s back) and the timing of when the team was put together, and I could see why some would say 2012 could be better.

    LeBron, Dwight, CP3, Amar’e, Melo and Deron are in their primes. Rose, Love, Blake and Durant are entering their primes. The only “old” guys are Wade and Kobe.

  • First & Foremost

    @cesar
    Chicago Bulls = Red, BLACK, White… sometimes green.

  • beiber newz

    ^which is why i said lebron should have been told he was smoking. that’s too much of an insult even if he may have overstated his claim, still some would argue the latter, of the ’12 team being better, just like most would say the dream team will never be outmatched. so that’s why i said the smoking insult was pretty much uncalled for.

    good research, i was going to mention the age factor….

  • Franchise

    Trust AB to be the antagonist. I’d take a prime Karl Malone over Amare any day. Karl was just better both offensively and defensively than Amare will ever be.

    And as for Blake while he has the potential (im starting to hate that word) for greatness, dude hasn’t even played a playoff game. Slow down on the all-time tag. Those two are great additions to any team but against the DT ’92, they’re outmatched. Guard positions is the only place ’12 can compete with ’92. Dwight wouldn’t have a prayer against D-Rob and Ewing.

    I don’t see how this is even a debate.

  • beiber newz

    @ 63
    ^which is why i said lebron should NOT * have been told he was smoking. that’s too much of an insult even if he may have overstated his claim, still some would argue the latter, of the ’12 team being better, just like most would say the dream team will never be outmatched. so that’s why i said the smoking insult was pretty much uncalled for.

    good research, i was going to mention the age factor….

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @Franchise — “Dwight wouldn’t have a prayer against D-Rob and Ewing.”

    Classic case of allowing nostalgia to override logic. And this is why nobody can really have this debate because we allow our old-school feelings to get in the way. People get in that, “Jordan woulda dropped 90 on Wade” mode and lose touch with reality. I get it: I grew up on a diet of Gary Payton and Shawn Kemp, so it’s tough for me to admit that any PG/PF duo is better … but eventually I’ve gotta see the light.

    Dwight outweighs Ewing and Robinson by a good 25-30 pounds apiece. He’s faster than Ewing and stronger than Robinson. He rebounds better than both of them ever did, and is just as much of a defensive force. Were Ewing and Robinson better than Dwight? Maybe so, maybe not. But even if I leaned toward saying Ewing/Robinson were better, to say they’re WAY better and that Dwight would be totally overmatched is ridiculous.

  • Ceasar paciotti

    Hey beiber newz. You are the most annoying person on this site. I’ve decided don’t come back to Taffner.

  • Franchise

    @FnF i’ve been reading Dime articles for a while now but dint know that Dimebag thing even existed. Oh well.

    I think a team will always want its players to keep improving (even if they’re already darn good). And if a player is hungry enough or ambitious, they would also want to improve. Even tho the Thunder have guys to take care of the play-making and rebounding departments, would it hurt if their best player added that to his repertoire? I dont think so. In fact, its an added bonus coz then its gives them an extra dimension. It’s always said that the Thunder need someone else to step up and shoulder the scoring burden in addition to Durant Westbrook. If Durant was more of a playmaker that wouldn’t be an issue coz he would elevate the play of guys like Harden and Ibaka. Instead, those two have to create their own shot as well from whats left over from Rus and KD.

    Cmon man why we even debating this? KD is already a great player. Fact. He can become even greater if he upgrades to an all-round game and have an impact on both ends of the floor not just on offense. Fact! Settling for what he has now would be short-changing himself.

  • CLAW

    WTF! I’m gone since laughing at all the Heat nut huggers (who was the dude talking all the SMACK about the Heat winning but never to be heard from again is he back?) and come back to see the Dream Team being compared against the 2012 USA Team and people ACTUALLY backing that claim? WTF!

    The only position the 2012 team would have is on Laettner, so yes if we are evaluating the Dream Team based on the worst player then the 2012 team would be better.

    Dwight Howard is an undersized DRob, without the outside shot. Lebron vs Pippen, MJ vs Kobe and what CP3 or Deron trying to guard Magic? I would love to see it, Dream Team would crush them, they destroyed EVERYBODY.

    Yes, Bird had the back issue and they were older but have you watched Team USA 2008? They didn’t look that great even when they got the gold, they couldn’t hit a flippin 3! They were also getting killed on pick and rolls and big guys moving, that would never happen with the Dream Team they have legit big men and would just overpower the younger and smaller 2012 squad, create spacing and have Mullin and Bird just nailing 3s.

    Franchise leave that crazy byatch, and don’t believe the “I’m on the pill” BS or condoms can block all STDs. The “I’m on the pill” got me #1 and twins #4&#5 (how does the wife not know antibiotics neutralize the pill, mostly after #1!).

    I’m out

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @Franchise — Agree with you about Durant. It doesn’t matter whether he’s technically a SF or a SG or a PG, the fact is he has the ball in his hands on almost every OKC possession and has the opportunity to create shots for teammates. So it doesn’t make sense that Durant gets a pass for not passing more, whereas guys like Westbrook, Melo and Kobe, not to mention Iverson and Arenas not too long ago (all of whom average more assists than Durant, BTW) are labeled ballhogs.

  • silky

    @ab
    wow!…. I’m really struggling to comprehend how u don’t think pat and drob wouldn’t just give d12 the business. like the mfkn business. Dwight ain’t even as good as zo was

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @CLAW — You do realize that the 2008 USA team faced much, much, much, much, MUCH tougher competition in the international field than the ’92 team, right?

  • control

    Pat Ewing was vastly overrated because of where he played. Shit, ny is the king of bullshit hype, people were saying Timothy Mozgov was going to be great at one point…Ewing would get killed in todays game. Drob though, he was a beast.

  • Franchise

    @AB Dwight is faster than Ewing, i’ll give u that. But stronger than Robinson? Debatable. D-Rob was as much a physical specimen as D12 with better coordination. Much better post moves and offensive repertoire, and a better passer than Dwight. Ditto to Ewing compared to Dwight, just minus the quickness.

    D12 last season: 18.2pts 12.9rebs 1.5asts 1.0stls 2.2blks

    D-Rob 92/93 season: 24.2pts 12reb 2.7ats 1.8stls 3.8blks

    Pat Ewing 92/93 season: 24.2pts 12.1rebs 1.9asts 0.9stls 2.0blks

    Im taking Robinson and Ewing over Dwight all day if im picking Team USA players. D12’s only edge is rebounding and only slightly. So yes, i’d say +6pts 1blk 1stl average per game makes them hands down better.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @Franchise — First off, your numbers are wrong. Howard averaged 22.9 points, 14 boards and 2.4 blocks. Those numbers you posted are his career averages, which have to be taken with a grain of salt since D12 came into the league out of high school, whereas Ewing and Robinson were grown men (especially Robinson with his Navy stint).

    Secondly, I’m not saying you’d be wrong to pick Ewing or Robinson over Dwight. But to act like Dwight would get mauled by those two, or as you said, wouldn’t have a prayer, is going too far. Put them head-to-head and I could see Robinson getting like 22, 11 and 3 while Howard gets 20, 13 and 3. That’s pretty much a draw, or at best, a close majority decision. Nobody scores a knockout.

  • Franchise

    @CLAW LMFAO!!! ur killing me bruh

    @AB ‘least we can see eye to eye on the Durant thing. He shouldn’t be gettin that free pass.

    Oh and its not nostalgia or anything, in ’92 i was like 6 and dint start following the NBA till ’01. I relate more to today’s crop of players, but judging from stats and footage from those 90’s dudes, yeah those guys wud kill today’s players.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @Franchise — That brings up another problem with people comparing old-school players; if you’re only looking at stats and highlights, you’re getting the glossy version of the whole image.

    Because we’re watching Dwight now, we can pick apart his game after every subpar to bad night. But if we’re just watching Ewing’s highlights, it’s a different story.

  • Franchise

    @AB My bad, those were Dwight’s career numbers true. His ’10/11 numbers are better, but given that he has literary NO legit competition at center those numbers are bloated. He’d be lucky to average 15 a game against those 90’s bigs.

  • Franchise

    @AB My bad, those were Dwight’s career numbers true. His ’10/11 numbers are better, but given that he has literary NO legit competition at center those numbers are bloated. He’d be lucky to average 15 a game against those 90’s bigs.

  • Mt. Pleasant

    What Franchise said in post 76. And I hated Ewing.

    Also, Howard’s stats are inflated by the lack of athletic centers in todays game.

  • beiber newz

    i think nostalgia is the #1 reason why “no one will be better than jordan”

  • Franchise

    @AB True the old-school players are only shown in blazing glory nowadays, but still, stats don’t lie. The 80’s – 90’s era had some of the most bruising big men and the game wasn’t watered down like it is today with pesky foul-calls and techs/suspensions for looking at a guy. For them to put up numbers like they did is testament to their greatness.

  • Big Island

    There is no way in hell any team is going to be better than the 92 team. That team had every position on lock, and they played like a team. The weakest spot was center by far and they had David Robinson and Ewing. Magic and Stockton are the #1 and 2 PG’s of all time. Jordan is the #1 player of all time on most people’s lists. Barkley, Pippen and Malone at forward, and oh yeah, Bird. Then Mullin to shoot, Drexler to run. You can say that the guys now are more athletic, more in their primes, even better if you want, but they would never be able to play as a team like the original team did. Magic kills whatever PG they pick, and Stockton would do just fine against them too. Jordan eats Kobe and Wade alone. Wade twice. Mullin shot better than anyone playing today, let alone picked for the team. Pippen stick Melo. Ewing and Robinson are both better than Dwight. If you want Dwight to look slow and plodding, run him next to David Robinson. He jumps higher, but both Ewing and Robinson could shoot better, and Ewing would shoot fadeaways from 20 feet. Blake Griffin and Kevin Love, who I love both of them, don’t even compare to Malone or Barkley, let alone Larry Bird. I don’t think I have ever read anything as absurd as Austin comparing these teams. Magic, Stockton, Jordan, Pippen, and Bird all made guys better. Barkley, Malone, Ewing, Robinson, Drexler and Mullin all took steps back from being the man on their teams, along with every other player, to be a team. Nobody on the new team can do that outside of CP. Absurd. Absolutely absurd.

    Magic and Stockton – best 2 PG’s in the history of the NBA
    Jordan – best 2 guard in the history of the NBA
    Bird and Pippen – Name 2 better small forwards ever.
    Barkley and Malone – Duncan is better, nobody else. Don’t dare say KG or Dirk, and I would give Dirk head I love him so much.
    Ewing and Robinson – Howard? No. Hakeem, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Shaq were better. After that, nobody.

    So you have Drexler and Mullin as your weak links.

    Deron, CP and Rose – All great, none as good as Magic or Stockton, and not as good as Thomas WHO WAS LEFT OFF OF THE TEAM.
    Kobe and Wade – Great, not as great as Jordan
    Melo, Durant and Lebron – Bird, Lebron, Pippen, Durant, Melo. In that order, and Lebron isn’t as much better as Pippen as Bird was over Lebron. Pippen over Durant and Melo easy. Lebron is too much of a freak to have lower than Pippen. Durant doesn’t beat Mullin in a game of horse.
    I won’t even discuss PF because I might punch my computer.
    Dwight Howard – Some people argue Andrew Bynum is better if he’s healthy. Dwight Howard can out jump both Ewing and Robinson. He can’t run with Robinson, shoot with either. And he doesn’t have to play against anyone nearly as tough as Ewing or Robinson, let alone a younger Shaq, or Hakeem, or Smits, or Kareem or even Parish.

    But they are better. I am so mad right now I am not even going to look at what I typed.

    Fuck it, Franchise, bang that chick. You won’t end up in as bad of a place as Austin just put me in.

  • Big Island

    And yes, I know Austin didn’t actually say they would be better, but the fact he said he could see why people would feel that way still made me shit my pants so hard I actually said Smits was on my center list. I’m still mad, so he stays on.

    Maybe don’t bang that girl though, I’m not that mad anymore.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @Big Island — Again, you’re looking at overall careers versus where these guys were in 1992 and in 2012.

    You would really rather have a 35-year-old, retiring Larry Bird with a bad back over 23-year-old, two-time defending scoring champion Kevin Durant with no injuries?

    You really think 32-year-old Magic could miss an entire season, come back for one summer with 11 brand-new teammates (at least one of whom we know was scared to play with him) and just automatically be able to stomp Derrick Rose or Chris Paul or Deron Williams?

    You really think 6-11 Amar’e Stoudemire in his prime and 6-10 Blake Griffin just entering his prime are NO MATCH whatsoever for 6-5 Charles Barkley and 6-9 Karl Malone?

    You really think Dwight Howard, being bigger and younger and a better rebounder than Ewing/Robinson, would suddenly be turned into a bum by those two? (And you know damn well the only two groups who think Bynum is better than Dwight are Lakers fans, and media members trying to start an argument.)

    Again, I’m not saying the 2012 team is better than 1992. We don’t even know who’s on the 2012 team. But will they be almost as talented or arguably more talented? Yes. Would they get absolutely hammered by the 1992 team? Hell no. Maybe they’d lose 10 out of 10 times, but they’d always be close.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    For real, people need to get off of that old-school blindness.

    I get tired of hearing stuff like, “Oh, Vince/B-Roy/Wade/Joe Johnson is weak. Jordan would’ve given that fool 60 on an off-day!” Pump your brakes, son. Jordan never even gave Ricky Pierce 60. He never gave Hersey Hawkins 60. He never gave Jeff Malone 60. But now you think Jordan is just gonna dump like that on guys with All-Star talent like Vince, D-Wade or Joe Johnson?

    No, Jordan at his most vicious would’ve given those guys maybe 40, and they would’ve given him 20 to 30 right back. Stop disrespecting the current crop of players by acting like the guys from previous decades would crush them on a whim.

    Jordan scored 60, like, five times in his entire career. He did it once against Dumars, once against Ehlo, once against Doc Rivers, once against like Nick Anderson. And the Bulls lost a couple of those games.

    Jordan did not drop 50 every night. Magic did not post a triple-double with 15 dimes every night. Barkley did not put up 25-and-13 every night. Hakeem did not get a 20-and-10 with 7 dimes and 4 blocks every night. Pippen did not lock up every dude he guarded every night. They had great games and they had bad games, just like today’s stars. They faced some great competition, some decent competition, and some weak competition, just like today’s stars.

  • beiber newz

    age is huge austin…you making a good case, and explaining very well where both teams’ players were at the time. good analysis. but i’m sorta confused, are u playing devil’s advocate? u said the 92 team wins convincingly but are adding in the Xs and Os for how we should judge both teams. the age thing, like i said and as you point out, is huge. i just want to know your final word, or some clarity if you would…

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @beiber newz — I’m saying that the 2012 team will be, AT WORST, very close to the 1992 team in terms of talent. And that the 2012 team will face MUCH tougher competition than the 1992 team faced. And that I’m OK with somebody saying the 1992 team is better, or that they’d win head-to-head, but not OK with anybody who says it would be a blowout or that the 2012 team wouldn’t be able to compete.

    If you want a pick: I’d take the 1992 team head-to-head. But not by much.

  • beiber newz

    yes. sounds accurate. the one thing that really stands out in your case austin is the competition variable. everyone likes to judge by whom was played and fairly so. it should be that way. basketball has gotten better over the years simply due to the nature of the game. but regardless of that (to play devil’s advocate myself), it shouldn’t take away from the talent on either roster. lebron james’ talents don’t change if he goes one on one against kobe or one on one against austin. the game may be easier, that is true, but, lebron won’t have gained superpowers in the process. essentially what i mean, if you look at it from a 2k standpoint, lebron would be rated 97 regardless of if he plays the bulls or if he plays the kings. one team is championship ready, one team is not but lebron is still a 97 rated player. even if jodan and em played lower level competition, they are still the players they are, and i believe people are making the case based purely off total individual talent. but i think a case can be made for both squad myself to be honest. a lot of young guys who play like all world players on the ’12 team. and you mentioned that bird was 35?? sheesh. but still a lot of players would kill to have played like bird at 35 than how they play at their primes. so, still, that dream team is killer regardless.

    and do you agree the “lebron is smoking” line is out of bounds? saying someone is smoking means they are saying something completely insane, which i don’t think his claim can be looked at as insane. if anything, it could be looked at as mildly wrong, if you think he is, but the simple fact that one can make a case for both teams means the smoking line was unwarranted even if lebron could just be sippin some of his cool aid.

  • K Dizzle

    If the committee had just taken Shaq instead of Laettner, then this wouldn’t even be a debate…

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @K Dizzle — Didn’t the final decision come down to Shaq, Laettner and Webber?

    @beiber — I agree, the “LeBron is smoking” line is taking it too far. Maybe LeBron is wrong, but he’s not saying anything crazy.

  • K Dizzle

    @ Austin – yeah, but only cuz of playin time issues. Laettner was pretty much a human victory cigar anyways, which says how good that squad really was cuz dude was a collegiate beast and even became an all-star once I believe.
    Isiah n Nique got screwed outta their spots for ‘political reasons’

    p.s. I got back to your Chris Bosh franchise cornerstone theory.

  • http://www.psychodrama.com Chicagorilla

    @AB

    Man I seriously hope this was some ploy to get the website more hits.

    If not, I have lost a ton of respect for your basketball opinion. I don’t care what age or generation your from. Go watch the 92 guys play and watch the 08’/10′ guys play and you’ll see there is a major difference in skill.
    This isn’t a real debate so thats all im going to say. Gotta go watch the Hawks vs Bulls game

  • Big Island

    Austin – Yes, I take Magic over those guys all day, every day. Remember why he retired, he still had game.

    Yes, both Griffin and Amare would get beaten up by Barkley and Malone. Amare is one of the most overrated guys ever, Griffin is a beast but hasn’t channeled it yet.

    Dwight Howard would be relegated to being a bigger Ben Wallace against Ewing and Robinson. Rebound, try to play D, and any baskets he gets are a bonus. They hand him his lunch and send him home. More Robinson than Ewing and Ewing was my favorite player. And yes, I know the Bynum situation, but I also brought up Smits, so I wasn’t thinking clearly.

    Bird was a more complete player than Durant. Durant will score with just about anyone I can ever remember, but for total game, Bird by a landslide. Yeah, he was pretty broken down, but for an Olympic run, with the 92 style of team, I take Bird over Durant. I take Durant over Mullin and Drexler though.

    I see your thinking, but the 92 team had some of the greatest to ever play the game, while the 12 team has the best in the game right now. And I think everyone on the 92 team was more of a team player than everyone now with the exception of CP.

    The game was different 20 years ago than it is now. The NFL is different too. The rules change, the players change. The center is dying in basketball. You can’t stick guards like you could then. There are too many if’s to really compare across generations. 10 QB’s threw for over 4000 yards this season in the NFL. The league has changed, the rules have changed. So I feel comfortable saying, had Jordan played with todays rules, in his prime, against VC, he would MURDER him. He wouldn’t kill Kobe. He would beat up on Wade. Some guys today, at the end of their careers, will end up better than some guys back then. Some won’t. I don’t know that I will ever think Melo is better than Nique. I didn’t think I would ever take Duncan over Barkley or Malone. I thought I would take Shaq over everyone. I didn’t think Kobe would ever be as good as he is. Until they finish playing, there is no way to say where they fall. TMac was the man, but fell off hard. Would I take TMac over Drexler over their best 6 years? Hell yes. Would I take Drexler’s career over TMac’s career? You bet. Until it’s over, you can’t really judge how they fall overall. It’s over for the older guys, we know where they fall.

  • beiber newz

    this olympic talk was a good debate. enjoyed reading the comment section. could’ve even been made into an article too. i think it was on this site though . or maybe it wasn’t, eh…

  • http://deleted dagwaller

    @ Austin – I see what you’re saying. I don’t think that in 92, those guys were all at the tops of their games.

    Then again, neither are Kobe, Griffin, or Love.

    I think the 92 team would win, but it wouldn’t be as bad as some people are making it out to be.

    That having been said, the 92 guys stats would be inflated if it weren’t for hand checking, expansion, illegal defense, etc.

    And when you said that some of the 92 players would be coming off of long playoff runs, are you also saying that you DON’T think that the 2012 players will have the same issues?

    Bird’s back was falling off, but Kobe’s hand is fine?

    I see what you’re saying, I agree in large part, but you’re reaching on some of your points, bud.

  • K Dizzle

    Yo, if Bynum gonna play like this then lemme be the first ta say “Phuck a Dwight Howard”

  • 4M

    Not sure why we’re even debating whether or not 2012 Dream Team would compete with the 92 Dream Team. Jordan, Malone, Stockton, Drexler. Those guys may be 30 but they’ve been in the league for only 7-8 years at that point, the same as Melo, LBJ, Wade, Bosh.

    The only weak link in DT 1992 would be Laettner and Bird (cause of his back). Still, LB33 would be good enough for about 10 mins per game just to nail 3-pointers.
    And as much as I am a fan of Griffin and KLove, their defense is subpar. So put that defense against Barkley and Malone, and definitely no contest. Sure Barkley isn’t much of a defender either but that dude can post up, take defenders off the dribble and hit three-pointers.

    And D-Ho may block a couple of shots here and there, but he’ll have to wipe off the smell of MJ, Pip and/or The Glyde’s nuts after the game once they make a poster out of him. On offense, what’s D12 gonna do? The guy is barely average on offense in today’s NBA, a league where there are barely any big guys left.

    And you all thought Kobe was fierce and competitive, just wait until 1992 MJ hears that we’re even arguing about this. He’ll rip off Kobe and Wade’s nuts and feed it to them.

    So yeah, I would bet the whole farm that the 1992 Dream Team would eat 2012 Dream Team’s lunch and dinner then shit on them afterwards. Only way 2012 Dream Team would win against 1992 Dream Team is if they all drank a bottle of laxative and have food poisoning at the same time.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    That ’92 team had “Best evers…” all over it.

    Mullin – one of the best shooters ever
    Malone, Charles – the best PFs up to that point
    Pippen – arguably the best defender ever
    Jordan – well, yeah
    Stock/Magic – 2 best point guards ever
    Bird – top 10, maybe even top 5 player ever
    DRob/Ewing – 2 of the best centers ever
    Drexler – Among the best scorers

    And the Blake Griffin argument?? Really? Let’s lay off his hype for one second. He’s way too raw to be put into a conversation with Malone and Barkley. And Amare isn’t even defending guys like David Lee… what are Barkley and Malone going to do with him?

    I don’t honestly don’t think AB believes in that trash he’s spewing. Notice the conversation slowed down, then he comes out of nowhere and plays devil’s advocate to spark the conversation again. Magic, Jordan, Pippen, Bird. That’s all I gotta say.