Smack / Jan 27, 2012 / 1:41 am

Paul Pierce Leads One Of The Greatest NBA Comebacks Ever

Paul Pierce

At some point in the fourth quarter of Boston’s 91-83 win in Orlando – it might’ve been after another one of his threes or perhaps when he had a behind-the-back assist to Brandon Bass or even when he hit a technical free throw – we sat back and realized, “Damn, Boston is really going to win this thing,” and they did it because Paul Pierce turned back the clock with one of the most incredible comebacks we’ve ever seen. Early in the fourth quarter, Pierce had banged two straight threes and then hit a pull-up in the lane and suddenly it was a four-point game. The Captain was doing everything, and even had a couple of blocked shots. Soon, everything unraveled for Orlando, losing it emotionally and blowing what was a 27-point lead to Pierce’s 24 points and 10 assists. Embarrassing to watch. The Magic scored 25 points in the entire second half, and started handing out technicals like they were candy once they realized the game was a wrap … E’Twaun Moore was the X-factor, missing one shot on his way to scoring 16 points … Did we just forget about Mickael Pietrus (12 points) these last few years or is he having sort of a renaissance in Boston? He had two threes and a J within the first few minutes of the game and had us reminiscing on the 2009 Playoffs when that dude was banging from everywhere and shutting down every big-name player he went up against … The Celtics might’ve looked like a random group of guys thrown together in the park during the first half, but they can still play defense. At one point near the end of the first half, on one possession, they blocked Jason Richardson‘s shot then chased three different guys off open jumpers, and then finally contested a J-Rich three from about 26 feet out. As the story of the first quarter went (Orlando was up 32-16 after 12 minutes), the shot still dropped. It was so bad in the first half, even Jameer Nelson was dropping threes, everyone on the Magic bench was doing all sorts of Dirty Dancing and the score was 52-25. Austin Rivers was tweeting, asking his dad to put him in, and without Dwight Howard (ended up with 16 points and 16 rebounds) making a big impact, the Magic were still setting up shop in the lane and vacating any potential rebounder out of the arena in grabbing 22 of the game’s first 32 rebounds … Nelson even got a little revenge for the stolen manhood Avery Bradley took from him the other night in Boston. Nelson knocked an inbounds pass off Bradley’s leg after a bucket. He stills owes the Celtic two more backcourt turnovers though … Speaking of the defensive ace, we can’t watch too many more Bradley jumpers. That thing is so ugly, he probably loses in H-O-R-S-E during practice to Rondo. He’s done a decent job of replacing Tony Allen‘s line drive, chuck-from-the-shoulder shot of back in the day. It’s bothersome just because – exactly as TA – Bradley could actually be pretty good if he’d develop anything outside of three feet … “The Czar of the Telestrator” is still one of the greatest nicknames ever, just ahead of “He Hate Me,” the “Purple People Eaters” and of course “Bad Porn” … How far is Shaq going to take this “Dwight stole my nickname!” crap? First he’s crying out about Big Baby being the best big man in Orlando, and then he’s yelling Ryan Anderson is the best player wearing a Magic uniform. We know he’s joking but still … Instead of spending 600-plus words on this game, we could’ve simplified it all to this KG interviewKeep reading to hear about the wild Grizzlies and Clippers game …

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  • McSimon

    Magic suck so bad it’s painfull


    Shaq does not belong in a studio, he belongs in a zoo.

  • yoda

    and van gundy is still coach of that magic team…

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    i wonder how rasheed wallace is progressing. heard he is working out hard trying to get back in the L and some people around him say he is really taking the comeback seriously. if the lakers want, they should take a chance. he’s still a great post defender, if he gets in shape.

    cool pic:

    there was a game where boston lost. in smack, someone proclaimed pierce was done and was saying why would any team want to have him on their team. i responded by saying this:

    “pierce is still a vet..with a good jumper…smart..knows how to play the game right…and knows how to move a ball to help chemistry…don’t underestimate pierce. he is clutch, and fearless. any championship team would love to have him. you make him sound like a plague….oh and he can still ball…he’s one of the better SF’s in the game still. but i guess i summed that up in my last post…maybe he’ll get an AARP endorsement ….when he retires.”


  • Hett24

    Those Memphis jerseys were hideous, the LA jerseys were pretty dope though.

    Dwight’s gonna be gone soon especially after a showIng like that, how do they blow that big a lead against pierce and a bunch of scrubs who couldn’t play on my intramural team.

    Can’t wait til the next time bulls play the pacers. Derrick rose got that MJ and Kobe killer attitude and he got pissed bout the pacers cheering after the game as much as they were so he’s gonna go off in that game. And for everyone calling deng soft hes gonna be back Sunday when they play the heat. Can’t wait til that game.

    Knicks and heat tonight who y’all got? I see melo goin in straight kobe mode and losing in a blowout puttin up 30 on 30 shots

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    i would think it’d be mandatory anthony be aggressive for them to win, whether it be by racking up assists and/or attacking lebron offensively and putting pressure on him, melo will leave his stamp. one thing’s for sure, i bet he scores more than a point, lol but no less than 20

  • catdaddywhack

    Doh! So that’s why they’re calling ‘em the Orlando Tragic…

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    who was calling deng soft?

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    good post game interview by the very good-interview KG after the historic comeback against the magic.


  • K Dizzle

    @ Austin (continuing from yesterday)

    U work for a hoops publication and just compared maybe the best shooter in the game to Rajon Rondo?
    Take this from a Laker fan: If Boston had Nash instead of Rondo in 2010, Boston wins the Finals over LA…easy!
    What you keep ignoring is the fact that EVERYBODY else is sayin Nash played with good players and he made them great players. Rondo may be a good point guard but his attitude and leadership skills are shit. He can run an offense and put up numbers but nobody respects that fool. All I remember from the Finals is him shootin 16% from the freebie stripe and Kobe in the paint waitin on him while Rondo stood wide open from 18 feet out, SCARED to shoot.
    Nash makes the game easier for his teammates. Where you think CP3 got that dribble around til a lane opens up, a mismatch pops up, or the defense just stops for a second?
    Marion could play that defense n rebound in his Phoenix days cuz he spent absolutely NO effort on o. Just get to your spot n Nash will find you cuz the d can’t leave Nash open.
    Amare scored easy. Joe got open looks. Barbosa. Diaw.
    If they played with Nash during his mvp years, the game was easy. Watch Rubio play and you’ll understand what Nash did. Love can get his numbers, but it’s easy with Rubio.
    If you play ball, you’d realize how much easier the game is with a pure point IF you already got some skills.
    Do you think the Knicks would struggle like they are if they had Nash(even at 38) running their offense? Nobody takin anything away from Nash’s teammates; they the reason he won those mvps, but he had A LOT to do with it.
    Nash got hurt during his mvp run and missed like 4 games and the Suns got smoked all 4. That pretty much sealed the MVP.
    If Nash was still 32, there’s no doubt in my mind Phoenix would be a playoff team.

  • j10


    I remember that one, it was soo hilarious watching Rondo unguarded,unmarked yet he still stands there afraid to shoot

    U want evidence, turn your 2k12, try guarding Rondo like Kobe did and u will see one toothless point guard

  • Marci

    One of the greatest nba comebacks ever?! Orlando fucked it up. Thx to Big Baby. Idiot.

  • trollne1

    Only two games and Dime still manages to make two pages out of them. I dont know if that’s a good thing or a bad thing.

    Anyway, the LAC/MEM game was too colorful to watch. And Blake Griffin just wants to dunk everything.

    I wonder if Mayo still has room to improve, I mean in terms of being a consistent 20pt scorer (#2 option, maybe like Joe Johnson) or if he’s just gonna be a Jamal Crawford-type player off the bench his entire career? This dude was so hyped during his HS and college days that I’m still disappointed his game hasn’t translated to the pros.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    First off, I just went through yesterday SMACK comments. That was a good day. See what could happen when we keep it strictly about ball?

    @Chi, I caught your comment about the 70s/80s tracks. Great idea. I already put Will Smith’s joint in my game. Hill-air-eee-us!

    And AB is trippin on that Nash shit. Playing devil’s advocate. He’s averaging almost the same amount of assists NOW as he did back when he played with Amare/Marion/JJ.
    I couldn’t even finish reading the post that started with this…
    “Or we could put it this way: Nash was good before Amare/Joe/Matrix, and he’s still good after them, but he was GREAT while they were there. Why isn’t that how we spin it?”
    We don’t spin it like that because they left and he’s putting up similar numbers. They left and he’s still playing the same way. That Suns roster is terrible and he’s somehow still managing to drop 10.4 assists per. He’s like 50 years old so I can argue that the tiny drop in his assist average is because he’s a couple of steps slower than he was in the mid 2000s… if he were younger he’d be dropping the same as he did back then.

    And we can say he made his teammates better, not vice versa, because you can look at ALL of his former and current teammates (not just the 3 AB mentioned) and see what they did with and without him. A huge majority of them improved. Can you say the same thing about Joe Johnson/Marion/Amare?

  • kyballer312

    I’m just curious as to how a guy (Rondo) gets hated on in a game he didn’t even play in?

  • heckler

    Steve Nash is OVERrated.
    dont get me wrong, he is a good basketball player. hes smart and such, but if he is your starting point guard, your team aint gonna win shit!
    and i’ve been saying that on here for YEARS.

    he does NOT help your team get better. he may help teammates get better (although I still think that is debatable). kobe bryant has NEVER made a teammate better — better kobe makes your TEAM better. Steve Nash does not.

    In fact, teams get better without him…ala Steph Marbury.
    Phoenix let him sign with Dallas a FA back in the day (becuase they already had jason kidd and kevin johnson). Dallas immediately suck, but Phoenix made the playoffs each year.

    Nash then resigns with Phoenix as a FA…and Dallas goes to the finals. they follow that up with a 67 win season (5th best ever. read that again FIFTH BEST EVER).
    Stoudemire leaves him and still put up 25ppg in NY with Ray Felton as the point guard. Shawn Marion won a ring with a 38yr old Jason Kidd.

    Both of those players, Marion & Stoudemire, were stars BEFORE Nash got to Phoenix. Look it up. Shawn Marion was an allstar in 2004. Amare was rookie of the year with steph marbury as his point guard.

    They helped steve nash MORE than he helped them. who was steve nash before teamming up with them in Phoenix?
    NOBODY. he was rated by most of yall under Mike Bibby for christ sake!

    what really irks me about steve nash is he NEVER accepted the defensive challenge of defending tony parker in all those playoffs series vs the Spurs. Not once. as the team leader and MVP of the league, it is YOUR DUTY as a LEADER to step up and say, “coach, I’ll guard him”.
    when Nash didnt do that, I knew he was a bitch and that he’ll never win a ring as the starting point guard.
    since Poppovich had bruce bowen guarding Nash, D’antoni had Nash guard bruce bowen since he is a statue on offense. shawn marion used to guard tony parker.

    I understand both coaches thinking…BUT still. Steve Nash NEVER accepted to the challenge to defend his own position and that spoke VOLUMES to me.
    that is an intangible quality that the mvp SHOULD have.

    Not to mention….steve nash won an mvp award when his teammate lead the team in: scoring, rebounding, blocks, steals, fg%, ft attempts, minutes, and double doubles (shawn marion).

    Imagine if Kevin Durant lead the Thunder in all those categories, but yet, Russell Westbrook was named league mvp?…there would be a REVOLT on this board!

  • heckler

    steve nash and grant hill deserve each other.
    I used to be a HUGE grant hill fan….but he turned out to be the BIGGEST BITCH the nba has ever had!!!

    dont get me started on grant hill…..

  • control

    Here is one of the major differences between Rondo and Nash, Nash draws double and triple teams that leave teammates open (which Nash will ALWAYS find) while teams leave Rondo open, to double team his teammates (in which case Rondo can’t do anything if he’s more than 8ft from basket). Rondo is excellent at running set plays, and he’s a good passer. That is it offensively. Nash IS a system, where his teammates know all they need to do is be ready to put the ball in the basket, and Nash will make sure they get it where they need it, with a hole open to score it. Nash just makes the game soooooo simple for his teammates. It’s really hard to compare Nash and Rondo, because only thing they have in common is very good passing…shooting wise we are talking about one of the best shooting point guards in history vs the guy who might actually be the worst shooting point guard in history, haha.

  • That’s What’s Up

    When I saw the Grizzlies uniforms it reminded me of a road game our team played in middle school. The coaches threw the two boxes of unis on the bus before we left. When we got to the gym, one box had the shorts that were for home games and the other box had our road jerseys.

    The shit didn’t match at all.

  • control

    Lets look at Amare’s efficientcy without Nash, that will explain the whole story of what Nash does, and since Amare is the guy people use an example to prove Nash isn’t making teammates better, it will clear that up. In his first two years without Nash, Amare shot 47% from the field with about 3 turn overs a game. Nash comes to PHX and Amare then puts up 53%-57% every year, a gain of 7 to 10% from the field, and his turn overs go down by at least 1 a game. Amare leaves the Suns, and his fg% drops down to 50% last season and 42% this year, with at least another turn over a game (but his assists went up 1 a game as well).

    Look at those numbers, you know how much of a difference making 5-10% more shots a game makes? It’s not like Amare’s skill set has changed, where he suddenly became an amazing shooter when Nash was there, and then lost the ability to shoot efficiently when he left Nash. That huge change is completely because of the way Nash sets up his teammates. Sure Amare is getting his numbers, but he’s doing it much more inefficiently without Nash, than with Nash. There are several seasons of numbers there, so this ain’t just some random fluke, it’s a very obvious and measurable reason proving Nash is an amazing point guard and does make teammates better at scoring.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    I’m not sure how one can make teammates better without making the team better.
    Using kobe as an example: He’s one of the greatest individual talents to ever play. He alone can win games. That what he does. That’s why his teams are successful… because HE wins games.

    And are you really going to argue Dallas got better because Nash left? It had nothing to do with a coaching change, culture change, and the fact that they started stressing defence?? And for argument’s sake, Finley left the same year. Dallas only got better because they lost 2 of their best 3 players? Nonsense.

    And you conveniently fail to mention the HUGE improvement in the Suns record the year Nash joined them. There were no other major changes to that Suns roster that year.

    In 03-04 they were 29-53.
    In 04-05 they were 62-20.

    Do you want to talk about the 05 season? Or are we going to conveniently forget about that one too. Amare missed the entire season(pretty much), and J. Johnson had moved on to the Hawks. The starting lineup was Nash, Raja Bell, Marion, Diaw, K. Thomas. And they went 54-28, for the 2nd seed in the playoffs. But Nash “doesn’t make his teams better.”

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    Hypothetical scenario:

    Throw Nash on that Knicks team and watch how much they improve.

    heckler and AB will then argue that Melo and Amare actually improved Nash’s game.

  • JDish

    @ heckler

    Calm down bro, Grant Hill is one of the best players in the league, a former all-star, and now a hard playin veteran. So GHill is a B@&%# right? Why?
    So your telling me that it’s easy to come back from a potential career ending ankle injury. Getting told in Detriot that he’s weak and a cry baby cause he’s not willing to play through an injury. HE WAS PLAYIN ON A BROKEN ANKLE, and getting mis-diagnosed as a severe twisted sprain. Going through family medical issues with his wife. Getting traded to Orlando, only to play maybe 15-20% of games during his time with the Magic. That whole time working his behind off to get all the way back and playing at an all-star level. He did get into the All-star game after coming back from injury right? Correct me if I’m wrong. So now he’s playing in Pheonix. Even though he’s not on a playoff team and not being the player he once was, he still a veteran NBA player who fought through so much to come back and make an impact in the league.

  • http://www.bettlejuiceXs3.com Chicagorilla

    I don’t understand how this is even a debate?

    Nash is clearly on another level, a puppeteer of sorts as a PG. While Rondo is more a cog in the machine. Austins clearly tripping if he thinks otherwise.

    Every teammate NAsh has had with the exception of Dirk, has had a worse career since leaving Nash. Same goes for the Coach. Clearly you can’t just plug any PG into that system and have it work. Nash made that system deadly.

    Every team Nash plays against (same goes for Jason Kidd back in the day), they TRY TO MAKE HIM A SCORER. It shows just how deadly you are if the other team would rather have you score 40-50pts instead of handing out 10+ assist.

    Any real basketball mind knows that a good PG or playmaker is not just a guy who racks up assist. It’s the type of shots he gets his teammates. The timing of when he passes the ball. How crafty he is at creating something out of nothing. That’s what separates Nash from the rest of the pack.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    the knicks don’t have a pure passing pg period, so of course would make the knicks better. the knicks just don’t know how to close out games. had they had a better floor general, most of the down to the wire losses would have gone the knicks way and no one would be saying the knicks suck. people just see the final result, hate melo, and draw conclusions about the knicks being the worst team in the nba, instead of actually seeing what happens with 2 or 3 minutes left in the 4th qtr.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    do people understand the phrase “too much credit” ? of course nash did a good job getting his teammates better. why can’t people distinguish between making teammates better and getting too much credit for making teammates better? austin just said: “Instead of giving guys like Marion, Amar’e, Diaw, etc. credit for doing what they do on the court and being good/great players, people were acting like they just stood there picking their noses until Nash MADE them look like All-Stars.”

    u people are acting as if he said nash deserves 0 credit.

  • Celts Fan

    @Control – agreed, BUT Nash may be the worst defensive PG in history, so those are kind of a wash. Nash is obv better, but I think Rondo has been a better fit with what we have than Nash could have been. We just needed a guy to push the pace and find open teammates; it’s his D and rebounding that have been invaluable to us. We didn’t NEED his scoring every game til last yr, but the D has been vital. Also, his mid-range has progressed. It’s still below-avg, but it’s not mind-blowingly-horrible anymore. I said from the get-go, you gotta look at JKidd. It took him a decade to be a servicable shooter and another few yrs to become a legitimately good one by the time he was in the “victory lap” phase of his career these past few yrs.

  • Celts Fan

    How an awful shooter becomes good:

    1. Practice, practice, practice. This takes a few years to get servicable enough to have the confidence to take ‘em in a game on a quality team like ours with other scorers around you who Rondo would think (rightly!) would be better off taking a jumper than him.

    2. Start taking them in games and get those reps in. (Rondo started doing this last year but you could tell he still wasn’t confident in it at all.)

    3. Take them with confidence, in rhythm, in games consistently. (he’s just started doing that this year and he’s making more, but it’s def a just-started work in progress. This is the hardest one. This is a 5 yr. kinda thing that really is a mental hurdle to overcome for some guys, like Rondo, who know enough to know their J was/is GARBAGE for a looooong time.)

    4. Stretch your range so you can become a spot-up shooter like JKidd has (this is like 10 yrs in, minimum, for a guy as bad as he was when he came in.)

  • jdizzle

    A 67 win season means NOTHING when you get knocked out in the 1st round by the 8th seeded Golden State Warriors

  • heckler

    @ Jay–

    no mention of my piece shitting on Nash for NOT be a leader and accepting the defensive challenges?
    I like steve nash. i really do. i met him twice and both times he was chill; hanging around in his sweats skating boarding with my boss.

    but the dude is overrate. look how far you had to go to prove you points? you reverted to stats that are 7yrs old!

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    @ beib
    I can’t speak for everyone, but I’m not just talking about Marion/JJ/Amare. I’m talking about every player Nash has played with. EVERYONE improved. In interviews they all pretty much say he makes the game easier. If all those players improved, and those same players said he makes the game easier, I think it’s fair to say he did the same for Marion/JJ/Amare.

    Are some people giving him too much credit? Or are others not giving him enough credit?

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    carmelo anthony won’t play the heat today.

  • JDish

    So it’s about Nash and Rhondo… Two different NBA players/individuals with different characteristics and skills.

    Obviously Nash is a way better shooter.
    Nash is more creative when it comes to passing and finding the angles.
    Sets the example as a hard working ball player, and wins the respect of his teammates. Characteristics of a leader.
    He is older, and getting old fast.

    Rhondo is a stronger pg that can bully other pgs. He can defend way better because of that.
    He is also a great passer and can make plays at the rim when driving.
    Has become a great floor general able to run a team when on the court, winning the respect of his teammates with his playing making.
    He is young and has many years ahead of him still.

  • heckler

    @ JDish–

    I used to be a fan of Grant Hill. USED TO. until he became the bottom bitch of ball players.
    the man sat out FIVE years over a fucking ankle! an ankle!
    in sports, the two most serious of injuries (most of us can agree) are knee injuries and back injuries.
    a broken ankle should keep a man out 4-6 months (1yr at the most). thats it. not five fucking years.

    and Grant Hill wasnt traded to Orlando. He signed a $92 million contract as a free agent. after knowing detroit doctors told him his ankle was weak.
    then he went to his first practice, saw that tracy mcgrady could ball, and grant bitched up. he took all the money from Orlando, and gave piss poor weak efforts to play.
    dude….an ANKLE?!!?…for FIVE YEARS?!!?

    then, if you remember, when McGrady was traded to Houston, Grant suited up, then publicly said he didnt think it would be fun to play with Steve Francis. so, he went back on ice. bitched up again and didnt play.

    THEN….in the final year of his orlando contract, Grant Hill did what he HATE most about NBA players, he ALL OF A SUDDEN was healthy and got back on the court to ball for a new contract. he played like 65 games.
    in the previous years, he played over 30 games ONCE. ONCE!
    you mean to tell me, he got healthy ALL OF A SUDDEN in the FINAL YEAR of his contract?!!?
    that is the essence of BITCH BALL!

    NOT only that….in his final year with Orlando, the team made the playoffs. they were on the rise with young jameer nelson and a young dwight howard.
    after all the money, time, energy and support Orlando Magic gave him for five years, Grant Hill signed with Phoenix as a free agent.
    “Thanks for the $100mil fellas, but Im going to wear out my ankle in a 7seconds or less system”.

    You’re free to like/love/admirer Grant Hill all you want (no argument from me), but call a spade a spade and a bitch ass move a bitch ass move.

    After all the shit the team and franchise went thru waiting for him, he backed out and didnt re-sign. to make matter worse, in Phoenix, he played EIGHTY plus games 4 out of 5 years.

    Are you really gonna convince he me he couldnt have suited up in the previous years?

    the dude STOLE more money than Rashard Lewis and you wanna give him a free pass?….for a fucking (fake)ankle injury?
    FIVE YEARS for a FUCKING ankle?

    and then he balls in the MOST UPTEMPO nba system and plays damn near every game?

    if you wanna eat that shit, so be it. But dont you DARE sell that shit to me!

    Grant Hill = BITCH!

  • Big Island

    This Steve Nash thing is it for me. I am simplifying the argument because it’s been going on for awhile now.

    Steve Nash makes his team and teammates better.

    All of this crap about he’s overrated, he sucks, can’t play D, he made Amare, he made Marion… Can’t see the forrest through the trees. I am just going to agree to disagree with guys who think he is overrated.

  • JDish

    How bout Dime break out with, yet again, another Top 10 NBA point gaurds. That will settle this Nash/Rhondo debate once and for all. Or will just continue giving this debate wood to keep the fire going.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    heckler: “look how far you had to go to prove you points? you reverted to stats that are 7yrs old!”

    I pulled the stats from the points you first mentioned. Leaving Dallas. Marion’s all-star year. Amare’s ROY. All points you brought up. When was the last time Marbury was truly relevant? You mentioned him in your post. So don’t mock my arguments for being from 7 years ago, because I used the same arguments you used. I just turned them around on you.

    I can talk about the Tony Parker thing you brought up (from 7 years ago, btw). Yeah, Nash didn’t guard him. So? He’s not a defensive player. He knows that. His coach knew that. Why would he volunteer to hurt his team by guarding Parker, when Bowen is an easier cover? That’s called smart basketball.
    And how do you know for sure that he didn’t volunteer to cover him? Maybe he did, but D’Antoni said no. Maybe D’Antoni wanted to save Nash’s energy for the offensive end. Were you in the huddles?? If you were, I apologize for the cynicism. If not, you have no idea what the gameplan was.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz


    i hear what you saying, and i am following you. yet, think about this. is it fair to say, had amare and joe johnson not been good players, people would not make the connection of nash ascending those players’ game. since amare and nem are among the tops of their position, it was easy for some to associate nash to those players’ success because nash’ job was to give them the ball in the best spots. the name “point guard” means a guard who finds the best ways to get points. nash played at an mvp level. so he was going to make shots easier, and for good players, they were going to look like nash was their crutch to get good shots. BUT, this is where the “too much credit” element comes in to play.

    from what i pointed out yesterday:

    “aren’t point guards’ jobs to make shots easier for players? aren’t they supposed to make their team better?…nash was at the top of his game…he was going to make those guys look good, any great point guard should because his job is to make the best pass that leads to the best shot….i think a case can be made rubio has already made the wolves look better, lawson and andre miller are making the nuggets offense go really well and even kyrie irving has the cavs fighting for a playoff spot….my point is, let’s not get carried away with what nash did. he did what he was supposed to do…..good passing PGs will make the game easier. rondo keeps the celtics in a championship window because he will pass before trying to get his, he loves to find players in their sweet spots. pass first PGs will make players find the easy shot and seeing as how nash was playing at an mvp level, his exploits were magnified. (amare wasn’t standing around picking his nose before nash arrived, he was a baller, while playing with marbury).”

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    Big I… Perfect. straight to the point. Moving on…

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    baron davis aint playing the heat today either….that mathchup just got sucky overnight. no melo, no b diddy. damn…the heat still hav lbj playing tho. i guess the marquee will have to be AMARE V JAMES. they were almost teammates too. had cleveland been smart and traded jj hickson, amare would be in cleveland balling with lebron. dan gilbert fails again !

  • Celts Fan

    @JDish – ain’t even a question that Rondo’s better than Nash is right now. It’s also not a question that he’ll never be better than him historically.

  • JDish

    @ heckler

    Ok then. So through everything you just commented, YOU were there right. You saw all of this go down. Everything went down EXACTLY as you just typed? Can you convince me that you were at Grant Hills side and was there first hand to witness all that you just wrote down.
    Ok so Grant Hill is B#$%& right? For what for going through a serious ankle injury. Why don’t you go out to your back yard, role and sprain your ankle so bad that you probably broke it. Get someone to tell you that you’re expected to get back on the court no matter what cause it’s “just” a sprained ankle. So you get back at your back yard after maybe a week or two and re-injure your ankle, this time you probably break it. Now what you do, you think you can get back to your old self again after such a bad injury.
    Oh and wait wait… you want to start Steve Francis… are you serious. You whining cause Grant Hill said he didn’t think it would be fun to play with a guy who Publicly criticized and refused to play for the team who drafted him. SO tell me, where is Steve Francis now. Where is he? And tell me where Grant Hill is at. C’mon man.
    You want to call Grant Hill a B#$@& for taking so much money from the Magic and didn’t even play enough to deserve the cash he was due. How many guys in the NBA have played for big fat checks without deserving it. There have been many my friend. You calling all of them B&%$#@# as well. C’mon man, unfortunately this is the NBA and so many guys have done that, but none of them have gone through what Grant Hill went through. So what ever, I don’t need to convince you, you believe what you want to believe. At least Grant Hill came back from all of that and is still playing in the league bro. Rashard Lewis, where is he now. So your saying that Rashard Lewis did things right, that he deserved that cash he was due, I don’t think so. He surely didn’t deserve for what his production and stats showed. Unfortunately NBA contracts are like that. You have a guy getting paid big and gets injured… he’s still due what his contract says. You have a guy sign a conctract for big money cause he’s a “potential” super-star, only to not live up to that potential and STILL he gets payed what he’s due. That is how it is.
    Oh… and your right, Grant Hill wasn’t traded, he’s signed…your telling me that if a team (if you were an NBA player) offers you a $90 mil contract, even though you are going through injury, You are not going to sigh… C’mon bro. This what the NBA has become no matter what.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    who woulda thought 2 current players over 36 would draw so much passion from readers. #hillandnash

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    “had amare and joe johnson not been good players, people would not make the connection of nash ascending those players’ game.”
    I disagree. People make the connection to Nash helping Dudley, Channing Frye and others. What would be different if Amare and Joe were mediocre? He’d help them too. He doesn’t just make the game easier for the Amares and Marions… he makes it easier for the Raja Bells and Tim Thomas’eseses also.

    And I think some of you people are forgetting the way that Suns team played. Fuck me if that wasn’t the most exciting team since Showtime. He single-handedly turned that franchise around. Yes, Marion was a good player. Yes, Amare was ROY. But the Suns were GARBAGE before he got there. Could Nash have accomplished what he did without those guys?? Of course not, it’s a team game. But his arrival was the turning point.

    I’m done with this dead horse…. moving along.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    now there is talk about the hornets having to let eric gordon walk as a free agent. haha. oh man, that trade looks worse and worse every 24 hours. they gave away a franchise superstar and the centerpiece player they got in return, they’re going to watch sign somewhere else?

    where are the people who said that was a great trade?!?!

  • heckler

    @ JDish–

    if you wanna defend Grant Hill….go right ahead. no one used to defend him more than me. Like I said, I was a fan of his. Then I had to face facts.
    The guy just stopped playing.
    and if my reasoning aint enough for you, then fine. Gimme your reasons why Grant Hill barely played in Orlando?

    and if you ONLY answer is his ankle injury, please spare me. like i said, NO player sits out FIVE years over a fucking ankle.

    Go find us another one who did. …dont worry, we’ll wait. (crickets).

    FUCK Rashard Lewis.
    But at least he played.
    Grant Hill didnt even get on the court.

    I am NOT buying the ankle injury. and you shouldnt either.
    and if his ankle was so bad, why didnt he just retire? (ala yao ming?).
    what?,…because he loves the sport and competing? BULLSHIT.
    where was that love in Orlando?
    he certainly found it again years later in Phoenix.

    im done with this topic.

    yall gotta STOP jock riding player, just because you like them. dont be too puss to call them out.
    thats what a real friend and fan would do.
    just cause you like a player, dont mean they do no wrong and you can keep making excuses for them.

    I am a TRUE fan of basketball (not just the NBA). I play as often as I watch and I follow the business of ball the same way I follow players, teams and leagues. and most of you do too.

    But PLEASE come off the bullshit of jockriding.
    thank you.

    (friend to NONE of you)

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    i don’t know if it’s fair to say they were garbage jay, but yea, i never cared about talking about nash. i was more so speaking on what a great point guard is supposed to do anyway. i was just building balance.

    anyway, i really feel stern wanted to send cp3 somewhere to grow a brand in LA because while watching that clippers game yesterday, blake griffin said, (and i am paraphrasing)

    “guys really didn’t watch us. we had like no games on tv. people really only saw highlight, they knew we had something, but never really paid too much attention. now that chris paul came to town, everyone has their eyes on us. the who world wants to see what we can do. everyday, someone will be looking.”

    haaa! stern sent the MEAN jolt to a downtrodden LA franchise. he couldn’t let a profitable city go to waste. now they wanted a marquee player in return, so they got eric gordon. yet they want to let him walk in free agency? giving him a bs contract extension that they knew he wsnt going to take? hmm, suspicion grows and stern is the odee crook in the whole mess.

    i am just wondering where the people who supported dan gilbert on the blotched lakers-paul trade on this site are.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    if there were ever a movie about ben roesthlisberger, will ferell would be a decent audition. #twins

  • LakeShow84

    Nash isnt even all that bad on D.. Well he WASNT lol

    I think its a white thing lol dude used to step in and take a few charges..

    But seriously.. like ChiTown said, Nash IS the system.. Rondo is a cog in the machine.. You really cant compare the 2..

    And seriously who knows what levels Nash’s game would be at if he were to go to a contender right now.. Lets not forget he posting the same #’s damn near assist wise playing with scrubs.. and yes Frye, Dudley and fuckin Robin Lopez are scrubs lol

    I been saying theres no way it would happen but could you imagine him on the LAKERS?!!? holy shit lmao

  • LakeShow84

    @ Heckelr

    Ummmmmm i think you just dont like Hill lmao

    Comparing his and Yao’s injuries are like night and day.. in Africa and Canada lol

  • control

    A team that gets less than 30 wins with two guys who are all stars can be called garbage…

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    the suns made it to the playoffs with marbury on the team pre-nash and even beat the spurs in game one i believe. a garbage team would be home watching that happen on their tv.

  • QQ

    Is the faker issue resolved now?

    Can I resume posting without someone looking at me like a fucktard?


    Embarrassing loss to the Celts. Fist time I see those guys played with heart this season, and they had PLENTY this time, and at the expense of my team you bastards. Damn.

    And yeah anyone read the Melo comment on NBA.com, saying he actually thought he’s shooting too much (on an article saying the Knicks may need to start over)? Well, NO SHIT, MAN, REALLY?!

    Yall know the next question.

    Will anyone here fucking defend Carmelo? Or yall come to your senses?
    You know the next question

  • JDish

    @ heckler

    You gotta be confused or something my friend. I don’t need to defend anyone, much less Grant Hill. I think he would be man enough to come to you personally and talk to you and tell you his reasons why he sat out so long.
    And you saying that he never ever played a single game with the Magic, well you are seriously confused cause he did come back to play. Atleast as I remember it, in his last season in Orlando he did come back to play atleast half of the games.

    So I take it that you’ll be willing to hate on Yao Ming for sitting out so many games with Houston… I mean it was just a foot injury right… is that what your saying?

    So you’re saying that you’ll hate on Greg Oden right, I mean his injuries don’t seem to serious right? I mean the Blazers just signed him to one more year right, but it’s no garantee he’ll come back to play a game unless he’s healthy enough right. Oh wait its only… knee injuries, ankle injury. But hey according to you he should suck it up and come back and play and not be a B&$@%.

    Oh and Adam Morrison right. You’d be willing to hate on hime right. Dude barely played for LA man. C’mon

    A friend to You heckler.

  • Celts Fan

    @Jay – I realized Nash was historically good when Amare was out all yr and he made Boris Diaw an 18-9 guy on a 60 win team without its 2nd best player. That’s the only argument you need. (btw, I call this the Aaron Williams Affect for every second Jason Kidd made him look competant in NJ before someone overpaid him and he was milk-cartoned within a year. GREAT distributors make bums millionaires. You’re welcome, Boris…)

  • douglalr

    why is everyone putting on their “if Nash was on that team” jersey. Nash played on a team with Dirk…didn’t win…played on a team with A’mare when he was first team all NBA and Marion when he was all league defensively and they didn’t make it to the finals. He had a nice run but he’s not the be all end all of NBA point guards. At least when you bring up the Rubio argument he has a chance to be “all that” but Nash’s time has passed and didn’t make the finals 1 single time…if it’s a valid criticism for Carmelo, A’mare, or even the pre-Boston KG then it’s good enough for Nash…

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    amare played much better with felton around, what conclusions should we draw about raymond?

  • Celts Fan

    @Douglair – agree w/ that criticism, which is why he’s barely a top 10 all-time pg to me, but he’s indisputably one of the best distributing pgs of all time. You want a PG that makes guys better and sets up easy buckets; he and JKidd have done that better than anyone in the last 20 years and it ain’t even close.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    look at douglalr tryna take y’all to class !!

  • K Dizzle

    @ Heckler

    when you done venting, maybe head down to your local university and mix in an anatomy and physiology class so you understand how serious a a fractured medial malleous is when we talkin about elite athletes who have to run n jump like G Hill did for 82-100 games a season. The only reason we talk about about Hill is that he actually came back from that injury, after almost dying in one of his surgeries.(look it up) Name another player who came back from a broken ankle (not named Michael Jordan).You call dude a bitch cuz he tried to get back to the game, makin it sound like he was just hidin out til his contract was up, then just balled out for a new contract. Dude signed a 93 mil GUARANTEED deal. He coulda retired and still got his money.
    And why you keep sayin “A PHUCKIN ANKLE” like dude coulda played if he wanted? You realize he had like 3-4 surgeries over a 2 year span right?
    When you get done with that, please remind everybody who Steve Nash was guarding when he got his nose busted, gushin blood that the Suns doctors couldn’t stop, costing the Suns the game.
    U threw out a whole buncha opinions, but nothing based on facts…

  • JDish

    @ heckler

    And Ah man… so you say that I’m not a ball fan… that hurts bro, it really does.

    I’m a bball fan just like you, with different view points, likes and dislikes. Yet I’m a ball fan no matter what. And I bet you follow NBA ball players just like everyone else.

    By the way I checked Grant Hill and Rashard Lewis stats. GHill is actually scoring a point more (average of 9 pts) than RLewis (avg 8 pts). Hmm so who’s more deserving of the cash they got?
    I prefer to trust that Grant Hill truly fought through many injuries and set-backs (not only the ankle injury, he had other complications as well) in his time in Orlando that kept him from coming back sooner. I prefer to trust that Grant Hill was a man, and his pride would not let him just give up and retire just like that. I prefer to trust that he fought hard to come back to play basketball.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    “A team that gets less than 30 wins with two guys who are all stars can be called garbage…”

    ^ Yup.
    The Kevin O’Neil coached Raptor team won 32 games and that team was widely considered shitty… And that Raptors team had former and current (at the time) all-stars in VC, Jalen Rose, Antonio Davis, and baby Bosh. They even had a stocked bench with Donyell Marshall, Lamond Murray, JYD, Rod Strickland, etc. If they were garbage then the Amare/Marion Suns team was garbage too.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    “amare played much better with felton around, what conclusions should we draw about raymond?”
    Say whatever you want. Just keep in mind Amare was much more efficient playing with Nash.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    ^the suns made it to the playoffs with marbury on the team pre-nash and even beat the spurs in game one i believe. a garbage team would be home watching that happen on their tv.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    i just want to know what we should say about felton. u only commented on the efficiency of amare. but what can we say about felton is the real question.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    i wonder if the griz’s jerseys from last night would look better had they won. i remember the lakers, during their first matchup against the celtics’ newly formed big 3 of KG, rayray and pierce, played with booty shorts to commemorate the rivalry days of bird/magic. FAIL.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    “a garbage team would be home watching that happen on their tv.”
    They WERE watching the playoffs from home. The year before he got there they were 29-53. Last in their division… and 2nd to last in the West. Clippers were last with 28-54.
    They were garbage.

  • K Dizzle

    What about Felton? He took his Bobcats to the playoffs and got swept by the Magic. So that’s for the argument that garbage teams don’t make the playoffs. Obviously, he’s better than any point guard the Knicks have now, but that’s D’Antoni’s system too. The better the point guard, the more effective the system. Ray was ballin too. Like 17 and 9, then gets shipped to Denver, where he was put behind Ty Lawson, then he got shipped to Portland. Safe to say, his best year was in New York, but the Melo trade destroyed that team. Ask Chicagorilla if he still wants to give up Deng, Noah and Gibson for Melo.

  • Mt. Pleasant

    There’s just too many guys who had better stats playing with Nash for it to be coincidence. And he’s doing it again with Gortat.

    I don’t have time to look it up but I’d bet his stats are way up this year. And I bet they go right back down after he stops playing with Nash. And AB will have some theory on why that is other than Nash setting him up for dunks, layups and wide open 8 footers.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    “but what can we say about felton is the real question.”
    I answer you… “say what you want”. Just keep in mind what I pointed out.

    Personally, I would say Felton was a perfect fit to their chemistry. He, along with the other guys, were perfect complimentary pieces to play alongside Amare. Since he was the obvious centerpiece, it all hinged on Amare.
    That’s my opinion. Not sure what your point is.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    My aim wasn’t to start a Rondo/Nash argument, just to point out the inequity in Nash getting 100% credit for however well his teammates play, whereas Rondo gets 0% credit.

    But now I have to ask: If Nash is such a great puppet-master who turns silver into gold and gold into platinum, why wasn’t he doing it in Dallas? And why isn’t he doing it now?

    At his peak with the Mavs, Nash was good for 18 ppg and 7 apg. Was he being held back by a slow-down system? Well, his coach was Don Nelson, so I’m thinking that wasn’t an issue. Did he make Dirk’s career and Mike Finley’s career? Well, Finley was dropping 21 ppg for the Mavs before Nash showed up; and Dirk became and MVP and played in the Finals twice AFTER Nash left. Does Nash get credit for “making” those guys, too? Was ANYBODY arguing for Nash as the best PG in the league and an MVP? Not that I remember.

    So then Nash goes to Phoenix — with the D’Antoni system, with Amar’e and Matrix and Joe — and now he’s dropping 11 dimes a night and winning MVPs and being called the best PG in the game. That was all Nash? That had nothing to do with the teammates he inherited and the system that worked perfectly for him? Did Nash just suddenly wake up at 30 years old and understand how to run a pick-and-roll and how to “make” his teammates All-Stars?

    I never said Nash deserves 0% credit. I never even said he doesn’t make scoring easier for his teammates. But again, this concept that Nash magically turned water into wine is just BS. Unless he morphed into Jesus on the plane ride from Dallas to Phoenix, the fact is that Nash benefitted from D’Antoni and his teammates just as much as the teammates and D’Antoni benefitted from him.

    Use Amar’e as an example again. He went from Phoenix to New York, and with another good PG in Ray Felton, puts up similar/better numbers than he did with Nash. Felton gets traded, Chauncey comes in but doesn’t exactly fit as well with D’Antoni’s system, and with Carmelo dominating the ball now, Amare’s numbers go down. But that all somehow has something to do with Nash? Maybe it’s more realistic that if you get the right kind of PG in the D’Antoni system, he’ll look great. Was ANYBODY calling Felton an All-Star in Charlotte? Has ANYBODY called Felton an All-Star in Portland? No. But while he was in New York, he was getting a lot of All-Star buzz. Which tells me that the system and having a finisher like Amar’e has a LOT to do with it.

    @KDizzle — “If Boston had Nash instead of Rondo in 2010, Boston wins the Finals over LA easy!”

    * Because the Lakers would roll out the same defensive game plan for a Rondo-led Boston team than a Nash-led Boston team? Not really. There’s no way to know how that series would turn out because the strategies would be completely different.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    mayor in hot doodoo for saying he would connect with his town’s latino community by having tacos for dinner!!!!!!!


  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    “The better the point guard, the more effective the system.”
    EXACTLY! D’Antoni system is only worth something with a PG. That’s why I don’t have much respect for him as a head coach. Any team will be successful with a good point guard. Is he ever going to adjust his system? Or is he just waiting to be ‘rescued’ by Baron?

    We want to talk “overrated”?? See D’Antoni.

    “Ask Chicagorilla if he still wants to give up Deng, Noah and Gibson for Melo.”
    ^ LMAO!! Gold. I remember that. Fuckin hell. Chi must be kicking himself for that one.

  • control


    As I posted earlier, Amare did have good numbers with Felton, BUT his shooting percentages went down, his 3 point attempts went up and his turnovers went up. All of those are indications that the game was harder for him, he was jacking 3s because he didn’t get open as much down low. His turnovers went up because he had to TRY to create his own shot more, instead of having it created for him. His shooting percentages went down because he had to work harder for his shot.

    If anything, because Amare was playing in the same Dantoni system as he was when he was in PHX and his role didn’t change, it proves that when the point guard changed, his efficiency changed. Sure there were a few different pieces around, but there were no real huge impact players on either side of the equation.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    to be clear, i don’t care about this nash-suns thing. i am just trying to build perspective.

    so ….

    my point is every good point guard will make players look good. nash got credit for making guys look good, as he was supposed to do. people are putting nash on some magical pedestal, well, where’s felton’s? where’s andre miller’s? pass first pg’s will always make life easy on the scoring end. nash just gets way too much credit than deserved. had kobe won mvp, i don’t think people would give nash as much credit as they are doing now. had shaq won mvp, nash would not be getting the credit he is now. awards changes people’s perception of players, to the point where some over exaggerate people. look at the all-star affect. as soon as monta makes an all star squad, or rudy gay, or josh smith, people will just look at them much differently, even though they may put up similar stats in years prior.

    and jay , u r commenting on a suns team that did not make the playoffs. i was talking about a pre-nash suns teams that did make the playoffs without him and win a game in the playoffs with no help from nash. a garbage team does not make the playoffs and beat a greg pop coached team in any game.

    of course nash made guys’ life easier. hence the name point-guard. any good guard of points should do that. that is their job.

    time for a sexy-time break….vida guerra !


  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    Now about those pre-Nash Phoenix teams. In 2002-03, the Suns has Marbury, Amar’e (rookie) and Marion, with Joe Johnson coming off the bench. Frank Johnson was the coach. They made the playoffs and lost to the eventual champion Spurs.

    In 2003-04, Amar’e gets hurt and only plays 55 games. Marbury gets traded midseason to New York. Joe is a starter, Marion is an All-Star, and Barbosa joins as a rookie. Frank Johnson gets fired midseason and replaced by D’Antoni. The Suns only win 29 games and miss the playoffs.

    Then in 2004-05, Nash signs as a free agent. So does Quentin Richardson. Amar’e is healthy for a full season, Marion is healthy, Joe is healthy. Barbosa has a year under his belt. D’Antoni is the full-time coach running his system his way and bringing in guys that fit his system in the offseason. The Suns win 62 games and lose in the WCF to the eventual champion Spurs.

    But you’re gonna look at all those factors and tell me that the ONLY difference from ’04 to ’05 was Steve Nash? That Amar’e being healthy and D’Antoni being the coach full-time and guys like Joe and Barbosa maturing had NOTHING to do with the sudden turnaround?

    The ’03 team was decent, but they fell apart in ’04 due to Amar’e being hurt and Marbury being traded. That’s why the Suns were “garbage” before Nash arrived. This myth that “It was the EXACT SAME team except for Nash” is just that; a myth.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    and felton was not behind lawson persay…it was more of a chemistry thing…felton getting shipped mid way thru the season, would u put him ahead of lawson? also, felton played just as much as lawson, seeing as they played alongside each other as a 1-2, with felton as the shooting guard. what are you talking about?

  • K Dizzle

    @ Austin – not gonna argue that it would be different strategy cuz that’s certain. My point is that Celts squad, with Nash instead of Rondo, pose more problems for the Lakers. We could switch Kobe onto Rondo cuz Kobe could stay in front of him and help out everywhere else cuz Rondo was no threat from outside the key. If Kobe doubleteamed and they kicked out to Rondo, Kobe just shifted back into the key and waited on him; Rondo wouldn’t shoot. I’m not makin this up. If we agree that Nash is equal or better than Rondo as a passer and the shooting is a joke comparison, then you can’t switch Kobe onto Nash and leave Ray open. And Fish isn’t holding Nash anytime after 2007. So now, you got the 2 best shooters in ball on the same squad. Defensively, Rondo wasn’t as disruptive cuz with the triangle offense, we just put Fish on the baseline where Rondo had to honor the 3 and had Kobe, Lamar or Ron bring the ball up n initiate the offense. Fish ain’t killin Nash so that matchup favors Nash. So now that we’ve established a base that the Celtics improve offensively with Nash and their d is the same at least(and please don’t start thinkin I’m sayin Nash could hold a candle to Rondo defensively, but in this series, its effects are minimized)
    Therefore, everything else stayin the same, the Celtics woulda had an easier road.
    That’s all I was gettin at.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    “Which tells me that the system and having a finisher like Amar’e has a LOT to do with it.”

    Amare sat a whole year. His replacement was Kurt Thomas. Having a Amare around had nothing to do with Nash putting up MVP numbers. He won his second MVP, and lead his team to a 2nd place finish in the West (during a time when the West was by far more competitive than the East), with a starting lineup of Raja Bell, Marion, Diaw, Thomas.

    Do I really need to go through the other starting lineups in the West that year to prove my point??

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @control — And I’m not arguing against the idea that Nash helped make scoring easier for Amar’e. He did. But Nash did not MAKE Amar’e an All-Star nor did Nash play puppet-master while all Amar’e had to do was dunk and scowl.

    Amar’e won ROY and followed that up with a 20-and-9 season (with Marbury) before Nash. Then in his first season after Nash, Amar’e was an All-Star starter, MVP candidate and dropped 25 points per game with Felton/Chauncey. So if it was as simple as Nash turning Amar’e into an All-Star, how was Amar’e able to keep up that same production with Felton/Chauncey as his point guard? How was he able to win ROY right out of high school and put up 20-9 with Marbury?

    If anything, because Amare was playing in the same Dantoni system as he was when he was in PHX and his role didn’t change, it proves that when the point guard changed, his efficiency changed. Sure there were a few different pieces around, but there were no real huge impact players on either side of the equation.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    i wonder if years from now people will be saying chris paul made blake griffin if paul ever wins an mvp.

  • Big Island

    Heckler – Dirk can do no wrong in my eyes. But I get what you’re saying about Grant Hill. The problem is you should be mad at Doug Collins for running him into the ground in Detroit. Duncan got hurt, Pops sat him and said f this season, I’m worrying about his career. Collins said F Hill’s career, I am trying to win now. Destroyed his ankle, then he got that bizarre ass infection. He was hurt bad. And I’m fairly certain that the Magic didn’t really want Hill back. So I see why you hate him for not being able to play for most of his time in Orlando, but Collins was the dude who killed him. And Orlando didn’t want him back.

    Your friend,

    Big Island

    Austin – I’m going to fall on the sword for the Nash argument since nobody will agree to disagree. It’s worse than watching a Mormon try to convert a Muslim. So I’ll say it to put an end to the BS: Steve Nash is extremely overrated. Can everyone move on now?

  • K Dizzle

    Notice how Austin conveniently cuts his argument off right before he has to say Amare MISSED THE WHOLE NEXT SEASON and the team didn’t miss a beat.
    Nobody’s once said Nash was completely responsible, but I’m wondering why nobody’s touching control’s statement that Nash made it EASIER for his teammates.
    Today’s word is : EFFICIENCY. Stop acting like that means nothing. Hollinger needs to do a PER for teammates with Nash and without Nash to squash this convo.

    And i don’t know why I keep seein “The Mavericks got better after Nash left” No shit! They won 6 more games the next season, not like they just bubbled up 20+ wins. They didn’t just lose Nash and didn’t replace him and add pieces. Next 2 years later, they switched to a defensive minded coach, Dirk went from a 25 year old all-star to a 27 yr old in his prime MVP. Shocking, I know, but Dirk was still improving, but it doesn’t mean if they had Nash, they wouldn’t have beaten the Warriors in that 07 choke job. This past season, Dirk was the best player in the world, had a shotblocking defensive minded center behind him and role players who played their roles to a t. It didn’t hurt that the Heat were overconfident and choked away a championship.

  • Mt. Pleasant

    @ Heckler

    I don’t get it. What was Hill’s motivation for faking the ankle injury? Because they had Steve Francis?

    He had no problem being a role player in Pheonix.

    And I’m pretty sure an insurance company paid the majority of that contract not Orlando.

    I’ve never heard anyone say anything bad about Grant Hill and you despise him for having a promising career ruined by a bad ankle. Did he steal your girlfriend or something?

  • igetmoney01

    dam the first half i was sick i was jus like man whens rondo gunna come back???? then they put bradley on the bench and moore came in and earned a few minutes and next thing u kno we was down 2…then it was a wrap if we had a big man and a healthy squad we hagve a legit chance this year, old or not. come playoff teams will be injured and its anybodys ring. we jus need some boards and for our guys to be healthy….BIG WIN FOR THE CS!

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    LMAO @ BIG I
    I’ll move on… fuck my head hurts.

    How ’bout them Raptors? I hope Bargnani sits as much time as VC did so we can get back on track to losing games. But it won’t happen because Bargnani is tougher. Yes, I said it. Bargnani, a big man who seems like he’s allergic to rebounding, is tougher than Vince Carter. Somehow I feel like nobody will debate that one.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @JAY — I see what you’re getting at, but the fact that Nash won an MVP while Amar’e was hurt doesn’t explain how Amar’e played at an All-Star level before and after his tenure with Nash.

    Again, never said that Nash wasn’t a great PG. Never said he didn’t make scoring easier for teammates. But he didn’t MAKE Amar’e or Marion or Joe All-Stars. Just like he didn’t MAKE Dirk or Finley All-Stars. Just like he’s not MAKING his current teammates All-Stars.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    @Mt Pleasant
    He married someone who was supposed to by my girlfriend, but she didn’t know it at the time. Not her fault she couldn’t see the future like I could. Bitch.

  • control

    Didn’t Grant Hill nearly die like 3 times or something? Like, where he damn near had priests, rabbis and shamans coming and giving him final rites? That is kind of a good excuse to miss a few games, haha. Of course, fanboys would probably say Kobe would play through that, and drop 40 a night while doing it.

    About the whole Steve Nash thing, the guy is my favorite player, he’s my Canadian brother, so I’ll argue all day about him being the best. It all comes down to efficiency, Steve Nash didn’t make a guy who was going to be an all star become even more of an all star, he just made it a lot easier for him to do his job. The guy just makes it easier for other guys to score, and when other people are scoring and making it look easy, they just naturally look better. I’m very sure you can look at pretty much every guy who played with Steve Nash (except Dirk) and see how their %s get shafted.

    I just looked up Marion’s numbers, he went from doing 44-47% fg before Nash, to over 52% with Nash, then dropped to 48% for Miami and Toronto. He’s at 50% in Dallas, playing a completely different role than he used to (with Jason Kidd as well, who is nearly as good as Nash setting up teammates). His turnovers went from nearly 2, to nearly 1, back to 2, and now back to 1.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    i think if the raps lost enough games to draft anthony davis that’d be a nice fit. i more so like the prospects of them taking harrison barnes to play sf. i think a derozen/barnes tandem would be fun to watch. but i think they’d rather have a shotblocker in the paint. fans would rather see barnes and derozen i think.

  • Celts Fan

    @AB and Control – I gotta weigh in on this. I respect the heck outta Nash, one of the best distributors ever, but we still lose that series with Nash. People forget that we put Rondo on Kobe a lot that series and he did as well as you could expect anyone short of Bruce Bowen to do on a supremely-motivated legend gunning for revenge from 08. Ray, Paul, and KG were still playing at a very high level that year, so we didn’t need the easy buckets Nash would provide as much as great D and rebounding Rondo provided. With Nash and old Ray (kinda banged up at the time if I remember right) trying to stick Kobe… I mean, that gets ugly.

    Again, NASH IS CLEARLY BETTER THAN RONDO HISTORICALLY, but for what we actually needed on the Cs at the time, Rondo was a better fit. Don’t let an ugly game 7 make you think the Cs struggled to score all year…

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    i don’t think people get the difference between a “who is better” and “who is a better fit”.

  • That’s What’s Up

    hey, Big Island – why do you think Nash is overrated?

    just messin’…

    I like Nash’s game a lot, but only on offense. There comes a point when your defensive liabilities (Nash, Melo, half the league…) hurts your team more than your offensive proficiencies help your team.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    i think if melo beat the lakers the time they faced in the conference finals and he ended up in the nba finals, no one would be shitting on melo.

  • QQ

    @ Heckler:

    Hey come on now man, stop hatin on G-Hill.

    Hmmmmm…. Steve Nash.

    He basically revolutionized the act of MAKING TEAMMATES BETTER.

    Amare’s an All Star even without Nash, The Suns weren’t complete shit before Nash, blah blah. We get it.

    But stop acting like Nash wasn’t the whole fucking system when they were winning 60 games.

    That’s ignorant.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz
  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    Ahhhhhhh. Some refreshing prospect talk. I have to put you on notice though… as a Raptor fan, we have a ton of experience in the subject. Lol

    I see your logic and it’s sound, but you might be forgetting Colangelo drafted Valanciunas last year. HE’S the rebounder/shot blocker we need. Drafting Davis when they already have Ed Davis, Bargnani, and Valanciunas seems like a waste of a pick, to me…. unless they flip Davis in a trade.

    Their biggest need is at SF, and that’s either Barnes or Kidd-Gilchrist. I can also see them drafting a PG if any of them raise their stock during the draft camps. I love Kendall Marshall’s game but I’m not expecting the Raps to draft that low.

    And does anyone think Austin Rivers is an NBA point guard?? Let me clarify… I’m sure he CAN play the point, just like Jason Terry can play the point… but Terry is not an NBA point guard. Feel me?

  • First & Foremost

    Maybe Nash does make his teammates better. Maybe he doesn’t. But maybe, just maybe he simply inspires them to play better. Afterall, he is some white dude from America Jr. who should be restricted to a wheelchair.

    The story of Steve Nash could be a lifetime movie. Middle-aged man told by doctors he would never be able to play again due to a rapidly deteriorating spine turned 2x MVP NBA champion [Its just a movie].

    What if Nash was Amare’s motivation for rehab all those times?
    “How’s the rehab going?” -Nash
    “It sucks, I don’t think i’ll ever be as explosive as I once was. I’m might just call it quits if I can’t do it.” -Amare
    “Yeah, I know how you feel. My back has been killing me lately. They told me I wouldn’t be walking and even though I have to get calcium injected into my spine, I know I have teammates depending on me to follow my rehab treatments and get back out there EVERY night and do my job. Your pain might be different so I understand if you whimp out.” -Nash
    *Hangs up the phone and does 100 lunges followed by 200 squats* -Amare

  • http://www.bettlejuiceXs3.com Chicagorilla


    You can’t judge Nash’s ability to make his teammates better because he didn’t put up HOF numbers on Dallas. Dirk, Finley, and Nash were a sick combo of guys. They all shared the ball and there was a ton of ISO plays being run.

    When Nash moved on to PHX his teammates were JUST AS TALENTED but the system kept the ball in his hands more and allowed him to make the plays. Basically making Don Nelson look like a complete jackass for not doing the same. All of a sudden Nash is a 50-40-90 shooter and dropping double figure assist.

    You guys are on some BNews shyt bringing up this Melo trade again. You guys clearly didn’t watch last years Bulls team. How did MIA beat CHI last year? Matter of fact, how did EVERY TEAM play the Bulls in the playoffs last year? They crowded and trapped Derrick Rose and tried to force his teammates to win the game. Sometimes the MVP was able to make miricles (the first two rounds) and sometimes he wasn’t (the MIA series). Basically Loul Deng was useless.
    Lebron shytted on Deng so bad that he had people proclaiming that he was “over his 4th quarter blues”. Lebron had so much free time on his hands defensively that they were able to put him on Derrick Rose at the end of a couple games JUST FOR FUN and Deng couldn’t take advantage of that. Would that have happened with MElo on the roster? Would Lebron James DARE switch onto Rose, leaving Melo with MArio Chamlers or DWade guarding him on the block? F^CK NO.

    So to answer your question. YES! I would still trade Noah (shot under 40% in the playoffs) DEng (guy works hard but he’s at his peak, it’s all downhill from here), and Gibson (serviceable role player) in a f^cking heartbeat for Carmelo Anthony.

  • UncheckedAggression

    Nash was great, and he had the most positive impact as a PG on a team I have seen from an offensive standpoint. Amazing passer, one of the best shooters in the league, just all-around nearly perfect. Definitely made the players around him better, though a couple of those teams were stacked already. If there was a PG that actually COULD make D’Antoni’s system compete for a championship, he was the guy. Still didn’t work. Yes, I’m saying that D’Antoni will not win a championship.

    His defense is what always bothered me. It is a huge part of the game, though many seem to forget that. And he was a huge liability on that end. I don’t think he deserved any MVPs, but whatever. He was fun to watch and definitely great.

    Jay–I don’t think Rivers has the handles to play PG in the NBA. He looks like he gets bothered enough by college defenders.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    oh, yes ! valanciunas is chillin overseas. that’s another weapon. frankly, i think if they did have a high enough draft pick, they would still take anthony davis and make him play on the block with jonas. especially if they want to get younger. they’d have valanciunas, davis, and derozen, 3 young guys fot he future.

    by that time, during the summer, or even during the draft, they could package jeryd bayless and bargnani for a top point guard already balling in the league or a top small forward. then they’d have youth at 4 positions.

    they would be bringing the vet calderon off the bench and he would be one of the best bench pg’s. calderon is aging, so preserving him on the bench would be nice.

    maybe a small forward they would look at would be josh smith for defense. or a point guar they would look at would be monta ellis (yea i know, he scores, but he can dish too when told to focus on that).

    a lineup of:
    monta ellis
    demar derozen
    james johnson
    anthony davis
    jonas valanciunas


    jose calderon
    demar derozen
    josh smith
    anthony davis
    jonas valanciunas

    i like the first lineup because ellis can serve as a westbrook type because they need to find scoring somewhere and pairing him and derozen would be nice. jonas can score himsself a bit. and anthony davis would be a marcus camby type. james johnson plays stellar defense. moving bargnani should only be a move to improve defense, whether to fill the void through the draft, or trading him for an estebalished defender i.e josh smith, iguodala.

    but with all that said, i like harrison barnes for them lol

  • UncheckedAggression

    Chicagorilla–Man, I still can’t believe you hate Noah so much. And Deng is better than you make him sound. I think it would be a HUGE mistake to trade those guys for Melo. Defense defines the Chicago Bulls, not their offense. The success stems from their defense. They get rid of their two most important defensive players, it would screw up everything.

    Melo simply doesn’t have the positive impact on a team that a player of his talent should. Denver always played at least as well without him as they did with him. Melo had a negative impact on the team while on the floor. It seems to be the same in NY. Be careful what you wish for.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @UncheckedAggression — I have to disagree. Defense defines these Chicago Bulls because that’s what they have right now. But if you change the lineup to feature offensive players like Carmelo, Rose and Boozer, then offense will define the Bulls. And they’ll still be very good. I think Thibs is smart enough not to fall to pieces if he can’t roll out a dominant defensive team.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    the heat are playing better without wade…i hate that argument

  • UncheckedAggression

    That’s cool. I think that’s how Thibs coaches, though. Let’s just say that I’d be happy with the Bulls making that move because I think it would make them less dangerous. I also don’t think Chicago would make that trade because they are afraid of the same thing.

  • Bilal

    I think that it is safe to say that as a point guard Nash is better than Rondo offensively and defensively Rondo is better. Overall I would say Nash is better because when the chips are down, his teammates are certain that he WILL make a play. But both are required to do different things for their teams. Nash is the man for Phoenix but Pierce is the man in Boston (I don’t care what doc says)

    calling hill a b!tch for having MULTIPLE ankle injuries is ridiculous. You realise that at some point it got infected as well. I don’t think you can imagine the pain of an infected joint. His career was basically over, then to comeback and keep playing is incredible. Yes he tookna lot of money, but unlike Lewis he couldn’t play, Lewis just sucked.

    I think a real need for the raps is an upgrade at the pg sport. But in this draft, I would say take a big and perhaps try and flip Davis into a later pick to get a pg

  • UncheckedAggression

    Haha of course you wouldn’t like that argument, BNewz. You prefer to base everything on unsubstantiated opinion. Ride or die with Melo because you think he’s a top 10 player. I have no problem with that.

    If there is plenty of data out there, as there was with Melo in Denver, it’s much more telling than simply watching and constructing your own opinion. When there is a small sample size (as there is with Wade) then you can get the wrong idea.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    there are talks of kidd-gilchrist being taken 1st overall.

    don’t underestimate austin river’s talent to be an all star in the nba

    andre drummond is also a can’t miss.

    this is going to be a big-man’s draft. people complain there is not enough bigs, well get ready for an inflow of great young big man talent.

    like perry jones

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    i don’t know how i got the label “ride or die with melo” .

    is it because i said he’d put up mvp numbers before the season started? is that how we determine who blindly nuthugs players?

    i thought i said a harmless statement. guess i didn’t know what i was gonna get myself into!

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    speaking on carmelo, everytime i look back i laugh though. because i think we can all agree that’s where the bnewz war started lol. over the melo-mvp debacle. pretty funny i must say.

  • JDish

    Lets just all agree on several things.

    1st-As we talk about Nash, we can conclude that as a matter of fact he is One of the best Point Guards to play in the NBA historically. Right now, Rhondo is one of the best pgs in the league, and has many years ahead of him.

    2nd-Players like Nash and Rhondo are different basketball players with different styles and attributes that are on teams that cater to their style and skill of play. What I mean is that all basketball players become part of a team, and become part of the whole style which that team will be running. It is the coaches that must examine the attributes and skills of players and put them in their respective roles. Steve Nash in Pheonix has been able to use his abilities to the best level possible because the system of the team is using Nash’s skills to the benefit of the success of the whole team, ditto for the rest of the players. And ditto with Rhondo in Boston, Deron Williams in New Jersey, Chris Paul in LA-Clippers, Derrik Rose in Chicago, Ricky Rubio in Minnesota, … and so on. There is just no doubt these players shine because they themselves are great basketball players respectibly.

  • JDish

    3rdly-Steve Nash is a point gaurd. One of the many responsiblities of a point gaurd is running the offense, being efficient, and getting the ball to those teammates that will score the basketball. So it is a given that Nash automatically will make his teammates better because that is one of his duties as a point gaurd. It’s just that Nash does it so well. Nash practices and works toward that goal, which should be a priority of all basketball players, making your teammates better.

  • CLAW

    Starting to live in Phx right before Nash got here, you could see a big difference between Steph and Nash. Steph was a shoot first PG and Nash was a distributor but could hit the open J (bizarro Rondo). When he doesn’t play the Suns look lost and the offense just doesn’t flow, hell it happened then as it does now the guy knows where to find guys and is always a couple of steps ahead.

    Is he the most well rounded? Hell no! Dude sucks on D, can take the occasional charge and can get steals by intercepting passing lanes but he is not going to known as an type of defensive stopper.

    The guy balls, and just reads the floor well and EVERYBODY loves playing ball with him because he makes them better. Guys should pay him back for some of the big contracts he got them, Tim Thomas should have given back 50% to Nash, dude sucked after leaving. Can he play D, NO! So why would he want to guard anybody and f up the defensive scheme! Like Clint Eastwood said, “A man has to know his limitations” and Stevie does.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    jdish jus said what i was saying since yesterday….nash did his job at guarding points. like ray felton did at making ny’s offense go. like ty lawson is doing in denver. like rubio is doing in minny. mayb it’ll take a diff voice like jdish for someone to get that.

  • CLAW

    @Austin – You are wrong about Nash not making an All Star, you can tell me straight up that Gortat could be an All Star if he started on any other team? Gortat is putting up numbers comparable to Bynum the last couple of weeks, actually better!

    Last 14 Days (Gortat got over his injured hand):
    Gortat: Pts 19 Rbs 13 Blks 2
    Bynum: Pts 15 Rbs 11 Blks 2

    Tell me again how Nash doesn’t MAKE All Stars (Yes I know he isn’t right now but could be since he’s a top 3 in the West)?

  • Bilal

    Let’s not start this melo MVP issue please.

    Can I ask you one thing, and please don’t take this as hating. Can you please cut down the constant referrals to previous things you have said, yes you are beiberdamus but its kinda annoying. Again this isn’t hating.

  • JBaller

    A lot of these arguments about whether Nash is the man, if he made guys better or they made him, etc. fail to take into account the fact that basketball is a team sport, all day, everyday. No one ever won a game all by them self (except maybe Wilt with his 100 points). It’s always a combination of talent. Nash does make his guys better by doing a good job getting them the ball where they need it to be effective. Some guys will thrive together and some will struggle. It’s not about being cool with one another or letting a guy get his numbers. I liked Melo in Denver and Amare in PHX, but putting them together in NY never sounded like a good idea.

    As a Knick fan I hope they can work it out and be successful, but it’s not going to happen just by magic; some shit is going to have to change. They were better with Felton at point and no Melo, they got worse with Melo and Chauncey, bu they were still better than they are now with Chandler and no Chauncey. It’s a farce until they get a real PG and the ghost of boom dizzle is not the answer. Tonight’s game against the Heat is not going to be pretty, but they stand a better chance with a motivated Amare than with Melo playing point-forward, totally ignoring his team mates.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz
  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    beiberdamus :D

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz


    didn’t mean for caps lock to be on.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    and nash isn’t helping him pile up rebounds. gortat knew how to play down low for a minute. does anyone know he has a jumpman logo tatted on his leg ? maybe he always thought he was hot shit.

  • http://www.bettlejuiceXs3.com Chicagorilla


    Don’t get me wrong. Melo has a b!tcha$$ness about him that I hate. He had no real reason to leave Denver. His diva like personality would be hated in Chicago (think Jay Cutler) unless he won a ring. But I’m speaking from a basketball stand point, not how i feel about him personally. It’s the same way i feel about Dwight howard coming to Chicago. Deep down inside I don’t like that dude. He is always smiling and acting goofy, he should be 10x’s better offensively by now, he is generally an idiot to me. BUT…put him on the Bulls and watch them win multiple championships.

    Rose+Melo+Boozer would be a average defensive team with any other coach, but with Coach Thibs they’d still be a top 5 defensive unit. And that’s all they’d need, considering the offensive fire power.

    Everyone talks about team Chemistry. And I agree, you do need that. But the Bulls team chemistry is strictly based on how Derrick Rose responds to Thibs. And nothing else. And Rose is a stand up dude who stands by his coach.
    As a coach myself I believe this is one of the most important aspects in building team chemistry. I think that’s why Boozer was able to adjust so quickly. The Bulls have a college like atmosphere within the team. It’s the reason why they work so well together through adversity. Credit should go to Thibs and Rose for that.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    i bet if the knicks had a perfect record right now, you guys on this site always critiquing , melo would say different thing. he nearly went to the finals whe nhe had a good floor leader in chauncey. and since he was winning, he was looked at as a great player, to the point ny was willing to give away 3 nba worthy starters in felton, wilson chandler, galo, all of whom many can say will have good futures in the L. fast forward to the knicks struggling and melo sux? there were talks about melo for bynum. yea, the same bynum some of you guys hated a while back, can have a “who’s the best big man in the league” discussions about. shit changes. melo is in a bad position now where he has a gutted roster. so perceptions change. don’t let that affect his individual worth. basketball is a team game. anthony is a great individual player. a player who may start in the all star game. a player who can start for the USA at the olympics. a player who will make a case for the hall of fame when he retires. don’t let a team record affect what skills melo has.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    if kobe wins his 6th ring matching jordan’s total, would it be looked at any differently? i don’t think if a veteran team wins it will look bad, but if an out of ordinary team like the bucks win in this condensed season it’d be looked at sideways.

  • UncheckedAggression

    Chicagorilla–I see what you mean, although I still wouldn’t trust Melo to be that other guy. Once Deng was gone, it would be pretty apparent that he did all the things that Melo won’t. I bet Melo would bump heads with Thibs pretty often.

    I also don’t like Howard much, but it would be scary if he and Rose teamed up. Howard actually HAS proven his worth to his team, time and time again. He impacts games without even getting the ball much on offense. I don’t think it would even matter that Howard’s offensive game isn’t so developed, those two would be deadly.

    Thibs is a badass and I gotta give credit to Rose as well. He keeps improving and works on whatever he can to make the team better. Chicago’s in a good spot right now.

  • silky

    damn…. u CANNOT compare jordans six rings to that chumps hypothetical 6. how he won his is… not… comparable

  • silky

    get to see some ball movement tonight from nyk with melo out… lock down the inside with the towers and hope the heat are bricking

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    nobody’s rings are comparable unless they were on the same team.

  • Big Island

    Everything is comparable, it doesn’t make it the same or even similar.

    Chi – Nellie doesn’t need any help looking like an ass. How he got as many wins as he has I will never know.

  • K Dizzle

    How did this turn into another Mike vs Kobe discussion?
    Damn. If Kobe wins 6, then Kobe got 6; that’s it!

    @ Chi-rilla : lol You KNOW we had to mess with you now that the Bulls are lookin crispy n new and Melo dyin a slow death in New York. Nobody saw it goin this bad….oh wait. I did as soon as they got rid of a veteran point and replaced him with a shotblocker who has no help

    p.s. Would eric Gordon be ‘injured’ if he was in LA?

  • http://www.bettlejuiceXs3.com Chicagorilla


    I was thinking the same thing about Eric Gordon. I think the Hornets are tanking. Which to me….it’s smart. The Bulls tanked nearly an entire season in 1986 when MJ hurt his ankle. He could have came back midway through the season, but they held him out until there was just a few games left and somehow made the playoffs. I don’t see the hornets making the playoffs though.

    @Big Is
    Nellie is one of my most hated coaches. But I gotta admit, I loved to watch Run TMC back in the day. But it’s probably because of him that they lost.