Smack / Feb 14, 2012 / 1:01 am

LeBron James Tries To Break Milwaukee’s Rims; We Found Blake Griffin’s Achilles’ Heel

LeBron James

LeBron James (photo. Jonathan Mannion)

Don’t hurt ‘em LeBron. We guess all it took for James to deliver a near-perfect performance was the possibility of being swept this year by Milwaukee because he unleashed fury on the Bucks in the second half. The NBA’s MVP at this point tried to tear apart the rims three or four different times, forget if anyone was in his way. To cap the end of the third, LeBron had one dunk where he split a double-team and flushed it (he covered 30 feet with one dribble) faster than a fat man going over a waterfall. That could’ve been expected. What wasn’t was his post game, scoring every…single…time against Carlos Delfino in the post. Fadeaways in his mouth all night. It was a five-point game at the half, and then by the middle of the third it was all over. The Heat eventually went on to win 114-96 as LeBron made 16 of 21 shots for 35 points. Chris Bosh was so excited with LeBron that he decided to interrupt his postgame interview and scream “GOOD S—!” … Despite getting roasted by James, Delfino hit five triples and scored 24 points. He’s one of the league’s sneakiest good players … Chris Kaman felt good enough to put down the fishing poles, hunting rifles and camo, and come drifting out of the swamps to make a big contribution in New Orleans’ 86-80 win over Utah. Okay, it was more about New Orleans recently relenting and taking the big man off the “Can’t play until you’re traded” list (as well as Kaman getting healthy off a swollen ankle). Either way, Kaman was busting heads last night, going for 27 points and 13 rebounds against one of the better front lines in the game. That’s now his third (in three tries) really effective game since the Hornets started giving him minutes again. One more thing: New Orleans should wear their Mardi Gras uniforms permanently … The Warriors’ 102-96 win against the Suns came down to Ekpe Udoh and Jared Dudley. Seriously. Udoh made his shot – a running hook in the lane to put Golden State up five in the finals minute – while Dudley missed his: two open Js on back-to-back possessions. With David Lee also going off (28 points, 12 rebounds) it was a wrap for the Suns … … Keep reading to hear how Dallas nearly collapsed in the final seconds against the Clippers …

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  • K Dizzle

    What was Bosh screamin bout?
    He had 8 n 7 on 3-8 shootin.

    Yeah, he definitely better than Aldridge…

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7Er5TsQrGg alf (from melmak)

    Semi basketball related but I just could not let this pass.

    Floyd Mayweather said the reason Jeremy Lin is getting all the attention is because he is Asian. Geeez. He is more racist than BRUCE here. Go to jail already.

    How do you say f*** y** in Taiwanese?

    Here is the ESPN link to the story: http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/7572690/floyd-mayweather-says-new-york-knicks-jeremy-lin-spotlight-race-not-play

    Can I also badmouth the Jazz? How the heck can you loose to a depleted and lacking in talent New Orleans? One last thing — Utah, please learn how to break the zone.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    is taiwanese a language? i thought it was mandarin

  • Orange

    or cantonieze <.<

  • BRUCE

    A SpearChucker versus a Gook. I am getting tired of that rice-eater myself.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7Er5TsQrGg alf (from melmak)

    They actually speak Hokkien and Mandarin in Taiwan. My bad. Was just pissed off earlier.

  • yoda

    didn’t watch that heat-bucks game but if i understand it well, you said lebron played post game against shorter and weaker player by shooting fadeaways over him? and you praise him for that? as far as i know, if you post shorter and weaker player, you won’t try to fadeaway, you’ll try to go trough him, so to speak, to score. toward the basket, you know…

  • http://www.bettlejuiceXs3.com Chicagorilla

    @Yoda

    Reminds me of the time I was in the military and still playing ball regularly. I had been working really hard on my post up fadeaways for a couple weeks. I didn’t play in a pick up game (which is what i do when im changing something in my game) during that span. So i went to the gym when i knew there wouldn’t be real competition. I didn’t want to try this new shyt on guys who could actually D-Up. Anyway, I get on the court and as soon as the game started i immediately got the ball in the post. I bagged the player down a couple dribbles then nailed a beautiful fadeaway from about 16-17ft. I got it again next time down and did the same move and hit again for about the same distance.

    After the game, a few of the older guys i usually play against for real comp had walked in and was they saw the fadeaway jumpers.
    The one i respected the most pulls me over to the side and says
    “Ay Slim, what the f^ck was that? Why are you shooting fadeaway jumpers vs someone smaller and weaker than you? Don’t you know that’s the worst shot in the game? You back that muthaf^cka down and get in the lane and use your hooks. Don’t let me see you doing that sh!t no mo.”

    Me… I nod my head and say “cool”. I never did that sh!t again. Because it makes no sense. Guys like MJ or Kobe are different. They have impeccable balance and can somehow make that shot consistently. So it actually benefits them in most cases. Jordan though, he didn’t always fade vs shorter guys. Only when he was doubled or being guard by a bigger player.

    Lebron should never have a reason to fade. NEVER. Seriously there aren’t many people who can match him physically. The closest is Josh Smith and Lebron is still heavier than him by at least 20lbs.

  • yoda

    @ Chicagorilla
    that is my point. and like you’ve said, MJ (i think Kobe doesn’t fade against shorter and weaker players too) backed down his guy. plus, LBJ is ambidextrous as far as i know. that means dude can hit you with hook shots from both sides of the rim or from the front. little dream shake and hook, you wouldn’t know how to guard that.

  • yoda

    question for guys from states and around the world:
    when i was younger and played pick up ball on daily basis, me and my friends played team ball, lots of ball movement, passes etc. now 10-12 later, when i play basketball with younger guys (i’m 32 now) i’ve noticed change in culture in playing ball, everyone tries to go one on one, they rarely use pick and rolls, in and out passes and rest of stuff that makes winning really easy. it’s like they’ve never seen other players than iverson and rest of the solo guys. summer or two ago i played 2 on 2 with my friend against some dudes who are like 18, taller than us, in great shape (no need to mention that i’m far from my shape from my playing days) and they play ball every day while we play once a month at that time. anyway, we won easily every game we played against them even with being short of breath just with pick and rolls and pick and pops. it seems like those kids have no idea they can pass ball back to player who gives them entry pass.

  • Tp

    Wonder what floyd loving dimemag has to say about his comments on Lin

  • Thanatos

    You’re right, they play like that. The young guys i mean. But where I play we try to teach them how to play the right way. Most of the time they listen. But if they don’t defend or if they play too much 1 on 1 they are banished at other baskets where they play alone. When the weekend comes usually we gather at my house to drink beer, watch basketball games and stuff. They show me videos of Dwight Howard and Chris Paul, I show them Hakeem Olajuwon and Gary Payton:))

  • Ghostzilla

    @ yoda
    I feel you on the one-on-one style of play that has infected a lot of pickup ball. I’m 31 and have been playing pickup ball consistently since I was 16 and I’ve definitely noticed an increase in it. It’s not all young guys tho, I’ve noticed the youngsters who played at a high school w/ a solid program or college ball usually play the right way (team ball). As a PG, I’ve also noticed that I can infuse the team game by playing pass-first ball, setting guys up for easy buckets, threading the needle on the pick & roll pass, as well setting screens to get other guys open. A lot of times you do have to take a youngster aside and explain to them how to roll after they set a pick. A nice no-look or dime here and there also can get others into the passing mindset. You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned Iverson & the “solo guys,” I think they definitely helped usher in that type of me against the world style of play.

  • Ghostzilla

    Kobe too, watching him against the Knicks last Friday reminded me of a couple solo artists I play pickup with sometimes who forget that passing the rock is an option.

  • beiber the bounty hunter

    Yep, that one on one stuff pisses me off. A few years ago I went to a new gym in LA and just ran a pick and roll offence with one of the guys on my team. I was the pick guy because the other was a lights out shooter. After about our 5th straight win, the guy defending the shooter got in my face because I “wasn’t playing proper man basketball”. These are the same guys I wind up because they’re not man enough to call a foul. Seriously, if you get fouled, call it. It bothers me that player think they gain man points for not calling foul.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    RE: The team play vs one-on-one play

    I still see good team play with the younger kids. That stuff isn’t lost. I see it with kids who are growing up playing organized ball. But the kids who never played organized ball, it’s pretty much a no-brainer that they’d try to go at one another one-on-one. They learn that shit from the players we see today. I grew up watching Magic and Bird. I wanted to pass like Magic. I was that dude who liked making crowds ooh and ahh with a pass between a dude’s legs through traffic… because I saw Magic doing that shit; fancy passing. I probably threw the ball away more times than I was successful, but that’s what I watched, so that’s what I did. Nowadays these kids are watching Westbrook, D-Rose, Lebron, and other guys break down defences one-on-one. Kids emulate what they see. If they don’t have any structure to teach them how to play the right way, they’ll never learn.

    That said, when I see a little twerp who’s like 4.5 feet make a nice move on some older guy, I can’t help but smile. I’m still a fan who enjoys watching the moves. As long as I’m not the guy with the ‘best seat’ in the house… defending.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    I just went through yesterday’s comments, and wanted to respond to this one by beiber.

    “you know, i just hope people don’t think “playing well together” hinges entirely on wins/losses. outcomes don’t tell the whole story.”
    - You’re 100% right beib. “Playing well together” doesn’t ALWAYS mean you gotta win games. The Raptors, IMO, play well together (w/ a healthy Bargnani), yet they still lose games. But it’s different with the Knicks. They have Melo and Amare, and now they have a point guard. It’s a totally different light that is shining on the Raptors versus the one on the Knicks. They were considered a contender with the Chandler signing. For them, “playing well together” will be measured by the number in their ‘win’ column.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    a dirty granny doing an “admiral (admirable) job” during a college basketball game

    http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzcuhneLxj1qzb7vjo1_400.gif

  • Celts Fan

    I agree with you guys so much. I’m 29 now and grew up playing. I’m 6’0″ and have been about that since I was 8 (ya, thanks God, letting me get juuuuust close enough to think I’d be able to dunk and never letting me get there was super cool. ‘Preciate it) so I grew up playing the 5 and being the awkward 8 yr old version of Dwight or whatever defense and garbage work kinda 5 you wanna list. As everyone else grew and I didn’t, I realized I gotta make myself valuable doing the dirty work and getting the follow ups. My buddies and I, none of us supremely athletic or former D1 players, win most of the time cuz we pick and roll teams to death and set back screens and whatnot. I am usually the worst skill player on the floor and still make an impact by setting screens and blocking out for every board (another lost art on the playground) and all that crap. I feel like the young guys we play against either have the ball, are cutting to get open to get the ball, or are doing nothing. Almost none of them are doing the off-the-ball stuff that frees up another guy for easy looks.

  • Celts Fan

    so young’uns reading, let my story be a lesson for you. Most of you aren’t the Kobe of your team. Earn your keep by being the first guy to hit the floor, the guy D’ing up the hardest all game, being in on EVERY board. You ain’t gotta drop 20 to be effective.

    I feel like an old man, sipping ice tea on the porch, shaking my fist at the world that’s passing him by. Now let me tell you why today’s music sucks… hahaha

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    yes, true true jay…i agree 100% on that.

    what i was thinking was more along the lines of discretion. like, if one were to view and analyze a fully healthy knicks squad where lin runs point, amare in the post and melo on the wing. now let’s say after a month’s time, the chemistry is off the charts and they go 12-4. solely looking at the 4 losses, you CAN say the played well even though the outcome was not in their favor, you know what i mean?

    winning is a very telling aspect, can’t argue with you on that. however, a loss should not be the end-all reasoning as to whether or not a team’s players played well or not.

    it comes down to judgement and discretion. if you watch the games and see a good flow, you can tell yourself: man these guys are playing well. but a critical turnover can turn the game away from a team’s favor yet that L doesn’t mean the guys on the floor did not have good chemistry, which is why i used the word “entirely” when describing whether wins or losses should be a determining factor.

    i don’t know if i made too much sense writing it out, but it made sense in my head.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    btw…mavericks are looking quite deadly again. shiiiiiiit

  • kyballer312

    I agree with you “older” guys…LOL…30′s old? I am 45. When I began coaching is when I lost my fire to play all the time. I would get so frustrated watching guys play with no Bball IQ’s…I would be like “dude, I got freshman who know how to set a proper pick and roll to the basket and your grown ass keep f’ing it up?”…it just got real bad watching a guy dribble (one-handed) then force shots up…I really most of the time don’t mind a bad shot hear and there (it is pick up ball) but its on the defensive end were my PG/Coaching mentality came/comes out…AT LEAST PLAY D(properly) IF YOU GONNA JACK UP SHOTS…my ex-wife would ask “why do you go play and then come home and bitch about how bad the games where? Stop playing.” So basically I did. I became one of those guys who came “with my five” because I knew we would win at least 3-4 straight games which at our ages was good enough…basketball has changed a lot but you can never beat fundementals and hardwork…I used to tell my teams give me 5 decently-talented guys who work hard over 5 all stars who don’t work hard and we will win 6-7 out of 10 games everytime…ESPN and its highlight factory make these guys think thats all basketball is -The End Result…as a coach and student of the game I notice more off the ball things than I do the end result because as a coach if you set the screen properly, and the shooter comes off properly, and the weakside fades properly, and one guy checks back, if the shot goes in or not I am not concerned with honestly…I am looking more at execution than anything else…the most inconsistent thing in basketball is scoring…to me just execute and eventually shots fall and good things happen…my favorite thing about practice is FILM SESSION…lol, the film don’t lie…how many of you guys who played competitive, organized ball remember film? Man that is where as a coach I can rip you a new one…lol…you say you set the screen but we watch the film and all you did was run past the guy to try and pop out for the J…you say you blocked out and all you did was try to out jump him…man I miss coaching…I may have to go back in some capacity next season…thats why I love this site and the comments section…a lot of you guys have great bball iq’s…a lot, not all…LOL…I notice some of you are internet, PS3, XBox athletes who just know a lot of stats and can recite the CBA and salary cap shyt but don’t know a flare screen from a door screen…didnt mean to rant but i got to typing and the shyt just came out!

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    I know what you mean. But buckle up for the bumpy ride. Even if they go on a 25-3 run, those 3 losses will be put under a microscope because of the high expectations placed on them once Melo signed… magnified even more after the Chandler signing. And now that Lin is playing well and they’ve won 5 straight w/o Melo & STAT, they won’t just be under a microscope. The basketball world will be looking at that team through the Hubble telescope.

    Remember the Heat last year? It’s kind of the same thing. A lot of hype equals a lot of coverage. The Knicks will get the similar attention once Amelo both comes back.
    (that wasn’t a typo. I’m typing “Amelo” from now on whenever I want to refer to both of them, I’m lazy)

    Personally, I just want them to play well so the Heat have a more threats to beat them in the playoffs. IMO, the Knicks have the personnel that I think can give the Heat a tough time… if they can get the chemistry right. My team is crap, and I have no allegiance to any other teams… so basically I just don’t want Bosh and James to get one. Lol.

    When Lebron’s career is said and done, I want to imprint these words on a stick of gum…
    “Not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6…”
    Then send the gum to Lebron so he can chew on it.

  • That’s What’s Up

    What’s the deal with Ron Artest?
    I’m hearing his teammates want him gone.

    It’s not surprising at all, but the lakers just don’t have “it” this year; not sure if moving him would help their cause.

    Then again, I fucking hate the lakers so more power to you

  • control

    Man, I’ve bitched at least 100 times on this site about how pickup ball has turned into some bullshit. Of course, I blame AI, since most of the offenders of this horrible playing style will be wearing an AI jersey, arm sleeves, headbands, etc. I used to travel around the country a lot, so I’d play pickup games literally everywhere, so I’ve seen a HUGE mix of playing styles. That 1on1 only bullshit is pretty much nationwide, the two places where I didn’t run into that was Las Vegas, and Montreal.

    In Montreal, pick up teams were running zones and calling plays running up the court, which was pretty insane and very refreshing. Of course, half the time they were calling em out in french, which I was kind of rusty in, so I’d miss a few of them, but the people were so friendly they didn’t care.

    Usually when I play pick up games, I tell guys I’m playing point guard, and just tell the other guys to cut and I’ll hit you. I’ll get ball, go into high post and set something up, team wins easily more often than not. Of course, there are guys who absolutely will not let me touch the ball anywhere outside of the paint, because I’m bigger than 99% of the other players, and then they go all Kobe to my Bynum, and the only way I’m getting the ball is an offensive rebound, which there will be a lot of because most of those guys jack up fade aways with 2 guys on them, just like Kobe.

    Rant over, basically 90% of pick up games suck because kids have embraced being the hero instead of being a winner. They’ll brag about scoring 8 points in a row while they are sitting down calling “next”…go figure.

  • the_don_mega

    @That’s What’s Up –

    read somewhere that World Peace is close to losin’ his mind about lack of playing time/shots… throwin’ fits all over the place

  • That’s What’s Up

    thanks Don_Mega.

    there probably wouldn’t be a lack of shots if he could actually make some shots. I always see him jacking up threes and they are WAY off. Dude just needs to go into Rodman mode and forget about offense

  • Big Island

    I’d like to think I would be done playing by now (38) if I hadn’t blown out my knee, but I would still do it. It is annoying as hell. It is hard to find good runs. There aren’t many guys who know how to actually play showing up at the parks. But you’re playing ball! I sat in a doctor’s office thinking about all of the crap you guys are complaining about thinking about getting my knee reconstructed. Actually, I was trying to put a price on my knee because I forgot what my deductible was. I settled on $10K, found out later my deductible was $1500. Anyway, so they give me 3 months to do therapy on it BEFORE they reconstruct it because it was in pretty bad shape. I decided I was 35, blew out my second knee in a rec league at a Jewish center, I had 3 runs a week (2 pickup, 1 league), and I complained about all of the stuff you guys are complaining about. Three years later, I wish I had rebuilt my knee and I could play. I still see everyone going to play in the Hoop It Up tournaments, pick up games, leagues, and then come back talking about it. It sucks. I play fucking softball with a giant brace on. First base so I don’t even have to run. Every Sunday morning I wake up at 7 like clockwork wanting to go to the 24hour Fitness in Simi Valley because there were 20 or so guys, 15 who knew how to play, and we would run until 10:30/11. I go to play softball and see the dudes playing at the park. I gave away my basketballs because I can’t just go shoot. I have to play. Like an alcoholic, which I have become, I just can’t even have a sip. So complain all you want, but I would trade a couple of asshole kids and some banging around for not playing at all.

    And I don’t care how someone gets me 35 and 8 on 16/21 shooting.

  • K Dizzle

    @ control – don’t blame AI. Dude got the same mvp Shaq, Kobe n Dirk got. Blame that whole And1 mixtape tour. Where else did guys spend 21 secs tryin to make a dude fall, then toss an alleyoop to a dude who’s only job was to dunk or just throw the ball into the crowd or just blatently disregard bball rules by carryin or travellin or whatever n tryin to act like the nba was scoutin them.

  • Celts Fan

    @Big Island – sucks man, sorry to hear that. I get it too. As i’ve hit my late 20s, my knees are barking (issues in middle/high school and was basically told I got DeJuan Blair knees) and the recovery time ain’t what it once was just from general wear and tear and stuff in a run. I complain cuz I know I’m prob in my last 10 years really being able to really run, but it def beats not being able to at all.

    oh and baseball/softball is painfully boring to me and I suck at golf, so I got no clue how the hell i’m gonna fill this void when the knees finally crap out.

    wow, this just got super depressing…

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    lol hubble telescope.
    interesting thoughts jay. my message is pretty much that not every game lost means the losing squad did not play well. it’s possible and very real that a team who plays well can still lose a game.

    in other news, mark cuban is bashing the cp3 trade and it’s poor management. guess it’s still being talked about.

  • Celts Fan

    @K Dizzle – and AI’s game inspired the And 1 mixtape tour and their popularity. don’t get it twisted though, MJ’s routine is probably what inspired AI, who was a much worse shooter, much lower, and INCREDIBLE with the ball in his hands.

    Is what it is, but if cats ain’t trying to WIN a pickup game, you can have em. I’m not setting screens and battling on the boards w/ a guy 6″ taller, 50 lbs heavier just to see you jack up shot after shot without even thinking about passing.

  • Celts Fan

    *meant AI was much shorter, not lower…

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    honestly, i think guys who overly bash flashy talent, are deep down inside jealous and it’s a high likelihood the person complaining does not possess and wishes they do posses those same flashy talents, on any level (high school good, college good, pro good). just my opinion. i’d like that to be respected and i don’t want 10 comments ripping my throat about it.

  • silky

    yea I hear u guys…. pickup ball is crazy since I came up. when I was playin over in Europe, I didn’t even play pickup ball in the off season, just trained, drilled and a few team tourneys. then I retired and got back into pickup and men’s leagues back here and it was crazy the amount of fall off in fundamentals in your average player. going to 3on3 tourneys and all these clowns are posturing and walking around like lilwayne…. like gtfoh. watching them play and how they talk to their teammates. crazy. I remember last summer this lil g-unit clown actually asked me “yo why you pass so much man?”

    I think the selfish/get-mine mentality in contemporary hip hop has carried over into ball too much

    like someone said earlier: it’s rare to see dudes who know how to play off the ball. the teams I used to coach I would ask em why it’s important to know how to play off the ball, after the blank stares… broke down the amount of time that u might actually have the ball in your hands in a game if u aren’t the point guard and once most of them realized it would be between 2-3% of the time… it was like a fkn epiphany to them- next game all I saw were off the ball screens, pin postups and back door cuts. blowout.

  • control

    KDizzle

    I’ll blame AI 100%. And1 was just a mostly unknown playground style, and wasn’t even popular at the time AI was telling practice to fuck off, and basically just being a midget motherfucker who jacked low percentage shots while completely ignoring the fundamentally easy ways to good, solid team basketball. Midgets (people 6’1 and under) admired his game because it was something they could relate to and wanted to be, THEY wanted to be the “little guy” going in on the “big trees” and scoring. AI is the ultimate Napoleon syndrome case study, the “hip hop” version. Fuck AI, haha.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    Damn Big I… that post made me sad. Let’s not talk about injuries, or playground ball. Makin me depressed and shit on Valentine’s day.

    “my message is pretty much that not every game lost means the losing squad did not play well. ”
    I haven’t cosigned much from beiber in a while… but I can cosign that.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    @beib
    “honestly, i think guys who overly bash flashy talent, ”

    Don’t worry, I’m taking the high road in my response to you. That said, I don’t hate the flashiness but I can understand why some people do if you’re on the same team as them. If I went to get a run in at my local playground, and two dudes are bringing the ball up and doing tricks for a minute each trying to break down their man, then finally throw up a shot… i’d be pissed too. It might be cool to see for like 2 or 3 trips up the floor, but a whole game?? I play ball to actually play ball. Not to stand around watching some dribbling exhibition. It’s more fun for EVERYONE when the team is playing together. Remember the Knicks vs Wizards game last week?? Which team looked like they were enjoying themselves? Which team looked pissed at eachother?

  • Big Island

    Beib – I almost agree with you on your point about flashy guys. I lost an honest to goodness 2 years of playing ball just trying to dunk everything that moved. Literally, from 93-95, the only points I ever scored were on dunks, attempted dunks, and free throws from getting fouled on attempted dunks. I wish I had never learned I could dunk. But I was always jealous of the guys who just made it look really easy. That’s why I loved that Hayward dude for Utah coming out of college. Or Dirk. Even Duncan. Nothing flashy, just kinda easy. Smooth guys, no pumpy reversy crossy crap. Just one dribble and a nice shot. There was this dude back home, Mike Kaleponi, who averaged like 50 a game in the men’s league, and every single shot was just an easy shot. He had to have shot 80% from the floor. Asshole.

  • yoda

    well, i never played much of organized basketball because i grow up during the war, so had little chance to do that (going to gym under sniper fire kind of sucks :) ) plus i was into martial arts. i played for my highschool and uni but its different here in europe (or at least in my country), we have organized basketball and training within local basketball clubs, not in school and college like in USA. so that doesn’t count for much. but me and my friends and most of my generation we’re playing pickup ball, playing against older guys and stuff and only one or two in ten guys played for some club i.e. organized bball, yet we learned to play proper way. sometimes older guys told you: do this and do that, or you’d figure it out on your own what other winning teams are doing or just watch plan old boring Utah Jazz :P . anyway, my point is, whole generation and those who are older than me used to play team ball, yet now (most of) younger guys play like they are made out of black hole substance. when ball reaches them, it gets sucked in.
    as for winning, i’m all for it and i’ll bust my ass to win but i’d rather pick guys who play team ball against high flying strong as ox light-your-ass players who don’t want to play proper ball even if it means i’ll lose just because i want to enjoy playing my game.

    @ Big I

    sorry to hear that man. wish you all the best.

  • JBaller

    I like how it’s “reveal your age day” on dime smack today. I am 38, 6’2″ and 250 lbs of post up power, especially against the Mexicans I play with in the park. I never played organized ball so my own skills at real playmaking are mediocre at best, and when I see guys who can actually run a pick and roll I know I am in trouble.

    On the topic of age, I wonder if we’ll hear how old Bieber (really) is.

  • K Dizzle

    @ control – lol. Fair enough.

    @ Big I – u might need to bounce to Germany and get that “Kobe treatment”. Either way, technology increases daily. Shit, they won’t even need acls in like 10 years.

    @ beibs – I don’t even know why Cuban still cryin about the Chris Paul trade. Like dude got money to burn cuz that fine is comin. We all knew the 3 team trade woulda made the Hornets more competitive, but because of “basketball reasons”, they went the other way. Now, Gordon’s on a in-season vacation, lookin at brochures for other franchises;
    then they talkin about tradin Kaman, but who the phuck wants to deal with the Hornets knowin Stern gonna try to fleece you. Youth AND??? draft picks? GTFOH!
    Shyt, if it wasn’t for Jeremy Lin lightin a fuse in NYC, that Rockets draft pick(from New York) in the first vetoed trade was lookin better than the Minny pick.
    Cuban just showin his ass again. You can’t veto a trade then say it shoulda gone thru. That’s schizo.
    Months later, as a Laker fan, I’m still heated.
    Keep hearin “Man, Lakers need a point guard”. Umm yeah, we HAD one.
    Screw Mayweather-Pacquoia. Somebody need to put Stern n Cuban in the octagon. Everybody wins.

  • silky

    I think that flashy shit is kinda true- alot of dudes see that growing up an are like wow, I wish I could pull that off. then you work on it and develop the ability to do it and you realize how wack it is in an actual game an you see the guys who do it all the time who are just looking for attention and they are generally clowns anyway… unless they are really trying to put someone in their place. I’ve always respected the guys who can do all that shit but don’t… cuz they know better. u don’t see superman walking around in his cape all the time. just Clark kent chillin till he gets pissed

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    K Dizzle…. *applause*

    Not too sure about Stern/Cuban in the octagon though. Think about that visual for a sec. 2 pearshaped dudes… rolling around on the mat together. If they don’t get any training, they just be two fat semi-nekkid homos.

    How do you feel about the prospect of moving Bynum and/or Gasol for Dwight?? And also Arenas possibly signing there.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    I’m seeing a lot of basketball snobbery in here.

    First off, as much as people are criticizing players who don’t play “the right way,” I’ve never heard ANYBODY say, “Oh man, I can’t wait for Thunder v. Mavs tonight. Kendrick Perkins and Shawn Marion setting screens and making proper defensive rotations? HELL YEAH!” Nah, buddy. We want to see — we PAY to see — Durant dropping 30 points on 30-footers and Westbrook dunking on guys and Dirk dropping 30 on “bad” fadeaways and Kidd making no-look passes that aren’t completely necessary.

    Blame ESPN and the advertisers all you want for hyping the game as “Durant and the Thunder versus Dirk and the Mavs,” but it’s not like any of us hype up the game any differently. Either we’re buying into it too, or we’re helping sell it.

    Young people not only emulate these actions from their heroes, they pick up on the viewing habits of the adults around them.

    And as much as college coaches and AAU coaches say they’re looking for guys who play “the right way,” we all know damn well the first-priority kids for scholarships are the kids who are averaging at least 20 ppg in high school, or at least double-digits if they’re on a loaded HS team. Guys like Josh Harrellson and Mickell Gladness collect an NBA check now because they do the little things, but best believe in HS they got noticed by putting up big numbers.

    Kids who are aiming for a scholarship also know this, so trying to sell them on playing “the right way” won’t change their mind when they see the scholarships being handed out to the kids who put up numbers.

    If you really want to change the basketball culture, do something to really CHANGE the culture.

  • yoda

    @ silky

    well we all practiced some smooth moves to try them in the game. i had decent dribble, been good with both hands and good mid range fade with high release so it wasn’t easy to block me. it was flashy as and1 but still good enough. yet i never tried to go 1 vs world even when i was clearly better than guys i played against. like Jay said, i like to play ball because i like to play ball and to me playing ball is playing like a team. if my teammate shoots 10 3 pointers and misses them all but all shots were good ones, clear shots or of the pick i won’t get mad. sometimes it goes in, sometimes it doesn’t (unless he refuses to pass the ball to open man under the basket but that is another topic). as long as it is in flow of the game, everything is cool.

  • kyballer312

    @Bieber -I was never the flashy PG or player on any team I played for at any level…but I was ALWAYS the starter and the closer *wink-wink*

    @Big Island -Thats real-talk man…I wish you luck in finding that substitute for the competitiveness of a good basketball game

    @Austin -like I said in my earlier post, I watch off-the-ball more than I do the ball…I like watching the development of a play and its execution…I like to see if its something I have ran or a variation thereof

    @Yoda -”snipers”…laffed out loud at that one

    @Control -I don’t blame AI…blame the league and ESPN for making him the poster boy…he played like he played…they didn’t have to glorify it with commercials and specials and highlight reels…I would give AI a pass on this one…I also played all over teh country (never overseas or Canada) but it is different everywhere you go…I played with(against) some pickup guys calling plays a few times, I actually thought it was funny because they were still losing…I have playbook about 150 pages or so, however, I only teach my squad(s) about 5-6 offenses and just let them see ALL the variations possible out of just 1 or 2 sets…I got 1 play that has 9 options if you runi it all the way thru and if #9 isn’t there your into the motion offense with 100′s of options

  • yoda

    @ AB
    i don’t care about NBA and how they play there. i care how people play when they play with me. tbh, i still watch nba but not with as much passion as before. it gets boring to me. nba is now tailormade for those one on one players. with all rules that go in favor on 1vs1 players, it’s harder to find teams that play proper ball.
    and to reply to your question: i don’t mind watching durant or dirk because they will take tough shots but they still play team ball. i don’t like watching westbrook because i hate point guards who will rather shoot than pass the ball or who shoot over 3 guys. as for kidd. damn man, you are talking about guy who is definition of team player.

  • That’s What’s Up

    I was always quick and elusive on the court, and I could get buckets on anyone, but I always made sure to hit the open guy if he’s in good position. You’ll always land on a good team if your forte is setting others up.

    I saved all that Michael-Jordan, Three-At-The-Buzzer-To-Win-It crazy shit for games of 21

  • silky

    pretty good article by Alan Hahn on the unselfish stuff we are talkin about and the impending melodrama

    http://www.msg.com/blogs/alan-hahn/the-knicks-fix-no-one-is-bigger-than-the-team-1.83197

  • kyballer312

    @Austin – in that scenariao, Dime IS part of the problem…true a guy putting up 20 and 10′s is going to get the first look…HOWEVER, I know of plenty of times that a guy gets an offer because in looking at the “big-dog” the recruiter/scout sees the glue guy…I used to use the expression “Let the big-dog eat” cuz he going to get everybody seen…like the old Dematha squads: Just by “making” the varsity team you were going to get an offer like you said…I think part of the frustration/epiphany is that “we” the older ex-hoopers see the game deteriating into a me, me, me scenario…on ALL levels…blame HS, AAU, NCAA, ESPN, NBA all of it…fundementals are NOT being taught as much anymore…it’s ISO and use athletic ability to overcome…thats fine, but what happens if that don’t work…you got PG’s who can’t effectively run the team, posts who can’t perform a simple drop-step to the lane, shooters with ATROCIOUS form, slashers who can’t finish with their off hands and just run over defenders, can’t perform a simple shot fake or jab step w/o traveling, defenders who can’t blockout properly or play simple help-side defense, let alone understand the principles of rotation and man-to-man defense

  • JDish

    I can’t imagine a fat guy being fast goin over a water fall, and that being similar to Lebron blasting through two Bucks, blazing through the lane and taking off to totally kill the rim.

    Is it really the most impossible task ever in basketball to stop a full speed Lebron James, with every fiber in his body fully concentrated, from coming down the lane with such force to dunk it. I didn’t see who was under Lebron for that dunk, but I bet that guy was dreaming nightmares of Lebron bringing his One-Man Air Force on his poor head.

  • control

    AB

    I must be different than average fan then, cause I love watching the Sloan coached Jazz, San Antonio, Chicago’s defense, and even celtics (though I hate them) just because I like to see disciplined, textbook basketball.

    Even right now, though I LOVE some of the stuff he does, I can’t stand watching Blake Griffin solely because of his free throw shooting and bad attitude lately. I absolutely hate playing with motherfuckers who don’t know the game, and don’t make high percentage plays, therefore I hate watching it.

    Give me technical perfection over meaningless flash any day of the week.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    I somewhat agree with AB’s post because I was used to be out at the playground trying to do Magic’s passes. If I grew up watching basketball and Kelly Tripucka was the best player, then I’d emulate him. (Thank god he wasn’t…) It’s funny that people in here are pretending like they didn’t go to the park, and shoot 20-footers as a 4’7″ kid screaming, “Bird, for 3!”. Quit playin guys.

    And I wouldn’t blame the NBA players. It was the And1 Tour, like Dizzle said. Most of the NBA players are playing the right way. I don’t see any of that trick ball being played in the L, so I don’t understand how anyone can blame them. Of course there’s some bad shots being taken but I can’t blame the pros for the kids forcing up shots. The kids are going to force up bad shots regardless. That’s like some teenager getting caught for smoking herbs by his parents, and his parent’s blaming Cheech and Chong.

  • JDish

    I watched a little bit of the last few minutes of Clippers and Mavericks last night. It’s probably just me, but I think Blake Griffin should have taken control of the last few possesions, taken Dirk 1-on-1 down in the block and hit Dirk with a post move or two and cram. I couldn’t believe seeing Blake literally scared of taken the ball, being a man, and putting the clips on his back. The least he could have done is create some offense, pulled a double team to him and look for a cutter, and make the right pass or the nice assist … OR SOMETHING. Don’t just get the pass from Chris Paul, glance at Dirk, and throw the ball back and hope someone else can get it done. The Clippers lost because of cold feet when it was critical for someone to show up in the clutch.

  • That’s What’s Up

    …and also don’t front because we know everyone on this board has gone into Melo Mode on many occasions.

    All it takes is that one bastard who keeps scoring on you/D’ing you up too hard/talkin’ shit before you pull out the “oh yeah muthafukka…..how you like me now” game that we all got inside us

  • yoda

    Jay

    you can’t compare way you played when you were kid and when you grow up. and yes, we all tried to emulate our favorite players but to emulate tough fadeaway with your tongue out and to ignore your teammates, just stand in corner and screm: gimme ball and move! are different things. like i’ve said from time to time we all take bad shots but we still try to play within team concept. with youngsters i played, most of them would rather loose a kidney than pass the ball or set a pick (and setting a pick for a guy without the ball requires capital punishment).

  • JDish

    Oh yea … and Blake Griffin. What kind of sorry looking free throw shooting do you got going man. With all the professionalist and technology and advancements in the game of basketball there is no one that can teach this guy to shoot decent looking free throws, and make more that half his attempts, can’t believe it. Griffin has to change it up, maybe get a few pointers from Shawn Marion and his unorthodoxed slingshot shooting,… sling it up there Griff, maybe you’ll be better off LOL

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @kyballer312 — Dime is absolutely part of the problem, as is SLAM and ESPN and the NBA itself; pretty much every communication/media outlet responsible for putting basketball on your TV and on your browser. I’m still part of the sports media machine, and I put some of the blame on myself too. We only feature the end of the play instead of showing how it develops, and only promote the guys who put up big highlights and big stats (or are just big personalities).

    Part of the blame goes to us and part goes to the public, who helps dictate what they want to see. I’m pretty sure ESPN didn’t just up and decide to cut SportsCenter from 40 minutes worth of actual highlights in a 60-minute show down to 15 minutes of highlights — meaning you end up cutting out a key jumper in favor of another dunk — they likely did market research and the response from viewers said they didn’t have the attention span to sit through all those highlights.

    My thing is, it shouldn’t have to be all-in or all-out. Ideally we’d be able to feature the highlight-makers but also have time for the guys who play “the right way.”

    You’re right that the big dog gets the rest of the guys seen, but that’s only AFTER the recruiter woos the big dog and makes a scholarship offer. So the big dog gets to go to Kentucky and the role player goes to Western Kentucky because the UK coach tipped off his buddy at WKU. That’s cool and all, but how many 15-year-old kids are dreaming at night of playing for Western Kentucky? And isn’t that because us adults NEVER talk about WKU and show 25 Kentucky games a year on TV?

    I also don’t think the game is deteriorating as much as we’re putting the Golden Era on too high a pedestal. Back in the NBA in the ’80s or ’90s or whatever you consider the Golden Era, there were plenty of PGs who didn’t run an offense well, guys with poor shooting form, bigs who were soft.

    We’ve just romanticized it to where it sounds like EVERY point guard was great and EVERY big was a badass and EVERY shooter was hitting at least 45% from three. People act like Larry Bird never missed and Dennis Rodman never got boxed out and Magic never turned the ball over. You don’t think Jordan was ever “me-me-me”? How about Calvin Murphy and George Gervin and Pistol Pete and Karl Malone and Alex English? Those dudes shot the ball just as much if not more than Carmelo and Westbrook and Iverson and Kobe.

    The game has always had, and will always have, it’s low-IQ athletes and it’s high-IQ basketball players. And it will have those special players who combine both traits AND perform in crunch time. I think the biggest difference is that we see so much more of the game (League Pass, cable, DVR, etc.) and we have so many more outlets to talk about it (Internet, sports radio, 24-hour sports TV), that we have more time/opportunity to nit-pick and criticize.

  • kyballer312

    @Jay – yeah, when I was a kid. “kid” being the operative word. I don’t play ball with kids. You do emulate your heroes but you also mature athletically as well…or at least you should

    @Thats Whats Up -damn your screen name is long…lol…yeah, sometimes you HAVE to do that…but I always did it silently…I always kept track of my assist even in pickup games coming up…my game was VERY fundemental…I wasn’t overly athletic; I was quick enough and could jump ok for a 5’11 PG…so I HAD to be smarter…hell i only dunked 1 time in a REAL game my whole life and I didn’t realize I did it til my teammates starting jumping all over me and shyt…LOL

    I don’t think anyone is saying sometimes you do gotta go at your man to prove a point. But if You do it every play and ignore the game going on around you it gets frustrating to players, like myself, who know the game and want to play the right way…and yes age is part of it…I can’t blow by my man like I used to or jump over him so yeah some of it comes from a place of frustration that the body ain’t what it used to be…but its a simple game made difficult by us who play it

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    Damn… you people play with adults who play that way?? BAHAHAHA! You poor souls.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    I also think people can overvalue assists and undervalue scoring. Sounds crazy, but think about it: @kyballer312 you admitted that you keep track of your assists, but how is that any less “selfish” than keeping track of your points? And why is somebody whose best skill is shooting/scoring (e.g. Carmelo) criticized for doing that “too much” whereas somebody whose best skill is passing (or rebounding or whatever) never criticized for doing that “too much”? Personally, I don’t care if one guy on my team is scoring all the points; as long as the points are getting up on the board for our team, why is scoring/shooting the only stat category in which people think it should be a “share the wealth” situation?

    Anyway, I remember covering a HS camp a few summers ago and Brandon Jennings told everybody that he was gonna break the all-star game assists record that day, which was like 15 or something. So the game is going and whenever Jennings has the ball, he’s clearly TRYING to get assists. So yes he’s allowing other guys to score when he was certainly skilled enough to score a ton of points on his own, but if you were watching, it was still a “selfish” performance because it was all about whether he was getting the assist or not.

    Somebody like Carmelo is a scorer. That’s what he does best. Why does it make sense that he hold back on his best skill?

  • Three Stacks

    @ AB

    Melo, or any player, should certainly not hold back his best skill, but I think the problem is so many young pro athletes ASSERT their own alleged “best skill” by sacrificing other facets of the game. Absolutely Melo is a scorer, and that’s what he should be looking to do on the floor, but if his focus to get buckets blinds him from the fact that his domination of the ball may sometimes hurt the team, then it doesn’t matter how good of a scorer he is.

    Also, looking for assists and buckets are fundamentally different…if a PG is creating easy buckets for his teammates, god bless him for keeping track of that. And if a scorer is getting easy buckets by himself all day, I say keep attacking until they figure out a way to stop you. But if a scorer is keeping tally of his points while shutting out his teammates just to pad his stats, that’s a different story.

    It’s difficult to call someone trying to get 15 assists “selfish,” unless he ignores wide open layups to pass the ball to a guy getting triple teamed so he can maybe get a dime.

  • K Dizzle

    @ JAY

    Everytime Dwight opens his mouth now, something stupid comes out. He startin to sound like he don’t get it.
    This dude wants to be his team’s closer…but he shootin 49% from the free throw line. How disconnected is he from reality that he doesn’t understand what a closer’s main job is? A closer ain’t just the guy who gets the ball when you up 10, 15 in crunchtime. It’s the guy who the other team almost won’t foul, down 2 , with 30 secs left, cuz they automatic from the stripe, repeatedly.
    His team won, but they ‘shoulda gone thru him’
    So now, we got
    1) Trade me cuz I don’t think this team is any good
    2)I’ll play with Player A if it’s God’s will
    3) My teammates (who I previously ripped)need to step up so we can win some games (even though I asked to be traded cuz I believe they suck)
    4) I should be the closer on this team

    So yeah, screw Dwight. I wouldn’t give up Pau OR Bynum for that dude now.
    As for Gil, I been hearin that he’s lookin explosive after the Germany procedure so I kinda wanna see what he got left. Too many people sayin “he won’t be able to coexist with Kobe”, but at this point, we need help gettin buckets. Another shooter/scorer doesn’t hurt at all.

  • Big Island

    I call it the Murphy Effect. I played with this dude who never understood how to play. The thing is, you can be flashy and effective. You can play ball and still have highlights. Dime spent all summer on Wall and Jennings and they are garbage. You have Bad Porn and you have Durant. If you get on a team with Durant, of course you want him shooting!!! If you get on a team with Bad Porn (still the best thing Dime has ever done) he is just shooting everything. The bottom line is Murphy didn’t understand that on a 2 on 1 break, if you pass the ball and the defender comes, you get it back. He also would be unprepared to catch a pass on a 2 on 1 break. Then there were the UCTLN (Useless Crossover That Leads Nowhere) and FPTCPTDE (Finger Point To Call Plays That Don’t Exist) while 3 guys are wide open under the basket. Those dudes are annoying as hell.

    The reason women’s basketball isn’t popular is because there aren’t any highlights. The reason why Blake Griffin is on every night is because a couple of other guys make the right play to put him in that position. Swap Jennings for CP and watch what happens. Or swap Jennings and Wall for guys like Nash and Kidd and Rondo. We see what happens when Melo leaves a team. We know that Tyreke Evans hasn’t gotten it. Maggette. We know those guys can get theirs, but we know that the team will be less than the sum of it’s parts.

  • kyballer312

    @AB – I agree 99.3%

  • First & Foremost

    Yeah, I pretty much skipped all of the comments except 63

    @AB, People criticize Carmelo for only caring about scoring because he does so outside of the normal flow of the offense. If a WR runs a combo route with 2 other WRs, but constantly breaks his route off to get into an open area just to pad his stats, it is selfish. True, his job is to get open and catch the ball but the play wasn’t designed for him, he was a decoy used to set up a better play. He can be the best open field player but that doesn’t mean we are throwing 3 consecutive bubble screens his direction.

    A player going out to just get stats for the sake of getting stats is selfish. What if Chris Paul gambles on EVERY pass just to go and get steals. Is that selfish? Yes, because if/when he misses he puts the rest of the team at a disadvantage. If Mcgee wanted to get 15 blocks in a game and kept leaving his man just to contest EVERY shot, that puts the other players at a disadvantage because now they have to cover for him.

    Even though some aspect of the game is your best skill, there is a time and a place for you to use it. Lets say, Melo is on the wing, the defense is scrambling, Melo receives the kick out with a guy closing in, does he simply pump fake-dribble-shoot or kick to the even more wide open teammate in the corner? Melo is more than likely the better scorer but his teammate hs the better shot on this play. You can just about bank on Melo holding the ball, jab-stepping, and then hitting a long pull up 2.

  • http://www.livingcheapla.com hakasan

    i’ve always enjoyed watching guys like charles oakley and anthony mason… not that i don’t appreciate the likes of MJ and Kobe, but i thought doing the dirty work was awesome…

    on this… racking up assists/rebounds is selfish… i can only agree to a point, if attempted assists become turnovers, or if by getting this one rebound the player ruined a set play… then yes, that is selfish… but otherwise, getting assists still means getting other players involved, and getting rebounds gives your team another chance at the offense…

    why shouldn’t melo do the one thing he does best? because according to his averages, his best isn’t all that great… if he’s taking a low percentage shot and ignoring a open amare for a dunk, that’s selfish.

    someone mentioned earlier that he wouldn’t be mad if his teamate is going 0-10 from the 3 if being left open… i’d rather think about why the dude is being left open at the 3 point line… if dude doesn’t have range from there, jacking it up is a bad shot, no matter how open he was… especially in pick up ball, we see people all the time taking these shots out of their ability… so… while i don’t mind ray allen taking that open 11th shot after going 0-10, i don’t want to see kendrick perkins taking that shot…

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @First&Foremost — I look at it like this: There are five key elements to basketball, and a team must do all of them (at least marginally) well in order to win in most settings: Dribbling, passing, rebounding, defending and scoring.

    A passing specialist will never be called selfish for putting up 12 assists with 0 points and 0 rebounds. Rebounders will never be called selfish for grabbing 12 boards with 0 points and 0 assists. Defensive specialists will never be called selfish for locking his man up but not taking any shots. People will say he has a one-dimensional game, but nobody will act like he’s being one-dimensional on PURPOSE, like it’s a flaw in his character rather than a shortcoming in his skill set.

    But let a scoring specialist score 24 points with 0 assists and 0 rebounds. Not only is he being called one-dimensional, he’s also being called selfish. It automatically becomes a judgment of his character, like he doesn’t WANT to pass the ball or rebound the ball and that he’s choosing to be a bad teammate by being one-dimensional in the facet of the game that happens to literally determine the winner and loser.

    Why is that? I don’t think it’s because people want to see a game where each starter scores 12 points. I think it’s because those who aren’t scoring secretly (or not) want to be scoring. It stems from that guy at the playground who tells himself “I’m a good teammate, I set screens and play D,” but in reality he just wants to score as many points as possible. He just can’t, either because he’s not getting the ball or because he doesn’t have the skills. Why else would that one facet of the game get such a negative label against the other four facets?

  • yoda

    @ AB

    i think you misunderstood me my friend. i asked about how youngsters play in your pickup ball, not in nba. nba is hype machine for a long time. that’s why spurs-nets had awful ratings.
    as for your question about scorers. i can play whole game with just rebounding and setting screens and assisting while i take only few shots while my teammate scores 40 as long those 40 aren’t forced shots. if he has open look, by all means please shoot. if you shoot over 2 guys with your teammate open under basket then eff you.
    one example for you. i play with same group of people for like 12 years once a week. i used to really good (at least in that group) and i could score at ease. with years due to weight gain and some injuries i had to move toward the basket and to play C or PF. anyway, there is this guy against whom i play every time, we guard each other. he always brags about how he scored 30 on me (guy is great shooter, can hit it without problems from 2 feet away from 3 point line and his team makes tons of screens for him). guy even counts every point he scores. my on other hand have around 15 points, over 15 rebounds and 10+ assists and my team wins about 65-70% of our matches. i could probably rack up 25-30 points every time like i did before, but it would be mostly hard shots. this way i play lots give and go, in and out, pick and rolls etc, starting fast breaks what ever. that guy gets around 30 points, couple of rebounds here and there and 2-3 assists and loses most of our matches. tell me, what do you think who plays smarter?

  • http://www.bettlejuiceXs3.com Chicagorilla

    @AB

    I was going to rip you a new one (Pause) until i read post #60.

    So i see what you’re saying. But i don’t 100% agree.

    As a coach, I have coached boys and girls. The drastic change was in two areas, Athleticism and feel for the game. They were the same HS class. Many of the boys watched a lot of basketball so their feel for the game was 10xs higher than the girls. Their athleticism also. The girls had more desire to win by far and they listened much better. With the boys there would be games where we were much better 1-12 than the other team. But somehow, one guy…just one guy who was bigger, stronger, faster, or can shoot lights out, would change the entire game around. The boys would lose focus and confidence and therefore more times than not we’d be out of it.
    on the girls side it’s the exact opposite. If we played against a girl who was athletically superior but her team wasn’t as good, we’d wipe the floor with them. Because no matter how athletic she was, she wasn’t on a boys level (i.e. Lebron) where she was dunking and clearing peoples heads for rebounds.

    So what i learned was that athleticism has kinda ruined the IQ for boys. While the lack of superior athleticism has forced the girls game to play a lot more fundamental. Seriously, the girls would be like remote control robots that would do EXACTLY what i tell them to do. The boys were like dogs off the leash. sometimes they’d listen, but most times they were freestyling and running off instincts.

  • Three Stacks

    @ AB

    There are a few other things to consider in your scenario. If the player scored 24 points with donuts everywhere else on the box score, how did he get his points? How efficient was his shot selection, his FG%, his turnovers, etc?

    You may be right about players subconsciously wanting to score, and maybe they don’t have the requisite skill set to play like they want. But getting 20 rebounds, no matter how you get it, is not gonna hurt your team. Same with playing hard D, getting dimes, etc (even though I’m sure someone can come up with examples where they can be detrimental). If you score 24 points on 15 or less shots, I don’t think you can be mad at that. But I’ve rarely seen scorers who play out of their team’s offense be that efficient.

    I’d like to think that most knowledgable fans can tell pretty easily if a player is being selfish or not. Basketball contains so many different ingredients, and it’s being able to recognize what’s needed when that makes someone a smart, unselfish player.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @yoda — If you’re getting 15-15-10 versus this guy’s 30-2-2, of course I’ll say you played the more effective game. You’re basically comparing Magic Johnson to Alex English, and I’m sure most of us will take Magic in that scenario.

    BUT … that doesn’t always mean English (or Melo, or Westbrook, etc.) is hurting his team by scoring as much as he does. And it doesn’t mean that we should be saying guys like Mickael Pietrus getting 7-5-4 are more valuable because “he does more than just score.” And it doesn’t mean English is a bad teammate because he does what he does best to put his team in a position to win.

    Another problem is that we expect superstars to do EVERYTHING. Dwight Howard can be the best rebounder and interior defensive presence in the NBA, and people are complaining because he doesn’t have more offensive moves. Kobe scores more than anybody in this generation and willingly takes on some tough defensive assignments, and people complain because he isn’t passing more. Jason Kidd came into the league running offenses to perfection and rebounding AND playing tough D, and people complained because he wasn’t hitting threes. LeBron is scoring 26-29 points a game, getting 7 boards and 7 dimes and a couple steals AND playing tough D, AND now scoring in the post, and people complain because he’s not scoring “the right way” in the post.

    One man can only do so much. If you wanna get mad at somebody for New York losing a game in which Carmelo has 28-7-3, how about getting mad at the other 11 guys or the coach? Why put it all on one player?

  • yoda

    AB

    you and me are going back and forth :) i agree about everything you said about NBA standards (and i still don’t like how westbrook plays), i’m talking about how i like to play withing pickup ball setting.

    as for melo, i think he needs good coach to be best player he can be. you mentioned kobe. well he’s a player who would shoot every ball he gets no matter what kind of D is on him, but he played effective only with good (or great coaches) like PJ or coach K. sure, he used to overshoots it more than once but still, he played withing system. Mike D is bad for melo it seems. melo has that me me me nature and only good coach can fit him in team concept. i bet if you had hard nosed coach like Sloan coach melo, he would be better team player.
    and yes, we do expect too much of one guy.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @yoda — OK, I see that. I suppose I automatically correlate the playground to the NBA because what are we doing on the playground if not mimicking the NBA? (Or putting on a dumbed-down version of the NBA.) Also because a lot of people were talking about younger players, presumably the ones who grow up to be NBA players.

  • silky

    the reality of the nba is that there are few specialists left. its harder to come up as one and they arent valued like they used to. multitool players and diverse skill sets over-ride traditional roles. and if u are a specialist, its about how efficient you are at what you do.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @silky — I think you still have specialists in the NBA, they just don’t enter the league as specialists.

    Ronnie Brewer was getting buckets at Arkansas, but after being in the NBA for a while he found his niche as a defensive specialist, so that’s what he is now. Had he been a defensive specialist at Arkansas, like you said, it would’ve been harder for him to get noticed. There are a bunch of guys in the league like that.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    when there are exciting guys ballin it up in college hoops, guys fiend over what they can become at the next level. fast forward to that time, and guys are complaining about those same athletes playing in a way that isn’t palatable to them.

  • Three Stacks

    ^^^ That is an interesting way to look at it.

    And it’s not isolated to collegiate sports, either. Right now Justin Lin is the talk of the sports world, but pretty soon people are gonna be going at him hard about his funky jump shot and his ability to go left. And before you know it, everyone will be saying that his game is too Asian because he crashes into people every time he drives.

  • ceasar paciotti

    Bottom line is this, ive been hooping for a long time an ive seen it all. You younger generations people have absolutely no BBall IQ and make everything 10x harder than it has to be even though your talent in terms of running jumping dribbling and shooting is off the charts.

    First of all, sometimes its not the assist pass that is necessary but the swing pass that leads to the assist which is of utmost importance. but these youths dont understanmd that if you pass the ball sometimes and dont always have to try to break your man down it can lead to an easy bucket for someone else on your squuad, or inevitably you will get the ball back for an easy bucket/shot attempt. And on the breaks, all you have to do is give the ball up and keep running and 9/10 times you will get it back for an easy layup instead of trying to go coast to coast and take a 1 on 3 contested layup. And as far as post play, that stuff is non-existent. When i used to hoop back in the days id always pick up a big that would play in the post and feed him to start the games off for easy points or until they would start doubling him which would lead to open looks for other shooters on the team. Now i notice that everyone no matter how tall (they could be 6’5 6’6 ona court of all 6’1 dudes) has to play on the wing or like a guard instead of just going down on the block and using their easy height, weight, size, girth advantage for easy buckets, its almost like they feel like if they cant cross someone up and do some guard type move their buckets wont be respected as much as simply turning around and laying it in. I’m trying to win games peoplke, i could give a F-ck less about your attempts to impress your friends with your new crossover etc. Thats why when i play i dont care about scoring, because i know i can do that, I focus on defense rebounding setting picks and unselfish passing, because i know the other 4 guys on my squad arent gonna do none of that except score, and thats what i need to do to win. Basically you youngins have no idea how to play simple basketball and win with ease with the overflow of talent you have been blessed with and it frustrates me all day every day when a dude like me only cares about one stat and one thing. Winning. So i can be like that dude Jay-Z who says ” I got now I dont care who has next” ya dig?

  • silky

    @AB
    i didnt say there was none left…just alot less. guys don’t look for niches the way they used to. there are alot of reasons; sense of entitlement, lack of fundamentals, get mine mentality and fewer opportunities because multi tool players are more highly valued.

    watching the tsn pregame for raps/knicks- still cant believe the hype and coverage. super lintendo vs calderon will be a nice lil back and forth tonight. excited to see amare on a well run p&r again

  • Big Island

    IF, and I mean IF, I still played ball, I would absolutely ball in the new Nike Huarache Free things. I just grabbed the running shoes today, but I would buy the basketball ones QUICK.

  • control

    AB

    Guys who you describe who get 24/0/0 and no one says they are selfish are like Jason Kapono or Mo Williams. They aren’t stars (don’t bring up that allstar selection Mo has), they are expected to come into the game and score a few points. THEY are specialized scorers. The guys who you say people get on for not having an aspect of their game are STARS, or in some cases SUPERSTARS. HUGE difference between a Bruce Bowen and a Tim Duncan, as far as expectations go. I want Bruce to come in, injure a guy or two, hit a corner 3, then get the fuck out of here. Tim Duncan, I want him to put my team on his shoulders and get me a championship. HUGE difference.

    Melo, he is apparently a star, and sometimes considered a superstar. If he wants to be JUST a scorer, and be selfish like that, hurt the team to get his stats, then let the guy get paid like JJ Redick or Matt Bonner. The guy is getting paid to get his team wins, but he denies his team wins with his selfishness. It’s all about expectations…

  • Big Island

    This whole scoring discussion is spiraling!!! There are guys who score and do the fancy stuff and it helps the team. There are guys who do the same stuff but it hurts the team. Melo drops 30, but it comes with him not getting anyone else involved. Kobe goes through phases doing the same thing. If it comes within the flow of the game, or they take over in certain spots, nobody is mad at it. But when it kills the team, people start barking. If you told Durant that he would have to take a back seat to Westbrook, but they would get a ring, he seems like the dude to do it. If you told Melo that he had to play second fiddle to Amare, but they would win, he seems like the dude who wouldn’t go for it.

  • silky

    lin. oh. my.

  • First & Foremost

    @Three Stack, Who is Justin Lin? J/K, I do it all the time, see the first initial and make up a first name. B. Obama = Brian Obama; L. James = Leonard James; etc.

  • QQ

    I see someone is STILL arguing for Carmelo.

    Stop it.

    It’s a lost cause.

    Come on now. This is poetic justice at its finest.

    A kid working hard to learn the game, and now KILLING teams, and more recently, literally killing a team with a game winner.

    Then there’s fucking goof who could score 30. I would tell you his other skill sets… but, ummm, that’s just about it.

    The twist? They’re on the fucking same team. The kid has been embraced by everyone after being a nobody for years. The goof has already been doubted, and basically, people are talking bout trading him so that he won’t fucking mess the team’s offense and their winning ways.

    Defending Melo? Stop it.

    IT’S A LOST CAUSE.

  • QQ

    I don’t see the point in defending Carmelo when the only thing people are talking about when he comes back is the fear that he will mess up the team by not playing well alongside Lin.

    And you call him an elite player?

    It’s not ‘he could help the team because he adds to the scoring punch’, etc… It’s ‘MELO COULD FUCKING MESS THE FUCKING OFFENSE ALL OVER AGAIN’.

    And you call him an elite player?

    Anthony Johnson has been called better things when he returned from injury. Fuck that shit.

    The point? He’s not an elite player. He’s an elite SCORER. But you don’t ever call him an elite player, you fucking dick sniffers.

  • JBaller

    And the LINSANITY continues! It is just unbelievable that the Knicks are winning with this guy outta nowhere. I know the story should be getting played out by now, but the streak continues and so does the hype. One more win and NY is back to .500. Normally a .500 record wouldn’t be too impressive, but when their batting 1.000 with him in the lineup it has to mean something. ESPN said there were huge contigents from the Chinese and Taiwanese Youth Basketball Associations in attendance along with a sell out crowd. This guy is single-handedly bringing Basketball back to the masses; he’s a one-man economic recovery. I gotta repost this in tomorrow’s smack because there aint much more to say other than this is…
    LINSANE!

  • trollne1

    I hope Jay got front row seats for that Raptors game.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    no need for that lowblow trollne1