Smack / Mar 1, 2012 / 1:16 am

Derrick Rose Is Officially Back; Kobe Bryant Is A Sith Lord

Derrick Rose

Derrick Rose (photo. adidas)

After sitting out five games, and then taking the All-Star Game as an opportunity to chill, Derrick Rose is back. With 32 and nine on Tuesday night, and then after he sauteed Tony Parker for 29 points last night in Chicago’s 96-89 win, the back problems are a thing of the past. Parker looked like a pup trying to curtail Rose’s drives, and on the other end shot 5-for-16 in one of those performances where you can visibly see the difference between an MVP and an All-Star … But the Spurs are still tough like leather at home, and Gary Neal (21 points) never seems to miss in the fourth. He scored 15 in the fourth, and it wasn’t until Luol Deng‘s wing three with 40 seconds left that the Bulls finally wrapped up the win … Why doesn’t anyone truly believe in Philly? Just check the last three minutes of last night’s game tape in their four-point loss to OKC. The only good shot they got was a corner three from Jrue Holiday, which he clanked. Other than that, they were throwing the ball around and looking as discombobulated as a summer league team. No one really wanted it. People were going sideways. Holiday (18 points) had a bad turnover and Elton Brand took a couple of really difficult shots as the Sixers went about five minutes without a field goal. Meanwhile on the other end, the Thunder couldn’t make a damn free throw to put it away. James Harden missed two straight, causing Malik Rose to point out: “Hard to shoot with your hands around your neck.” In the end, on the most critical possession of the game, Lou Williams predictably turned it over before the Sixers could get a shot … Russell Westbrook (22 points, 13 rebounds) was an absolute animal on the glass … If Philly really needed some more points, they should’ve campaigned to make this Iggy dunk worth five or six. It was that nice … If it comes down to it, Dallas definitely doesn’t want to see the Grizz in the playoffs. They were beat up by Memphis for a third consecutive time last night, losing 96-85 after Dirk had to leave the game early. Is there a more unknown improved player than Mike Conley? He had 20 points, 10 assists and four steals last night, and leads the NBA with the most 6-assist, 2-steal games this season. Memphis scored over 40 points in the paint in the second half ALONE, and down the stretch, every time Roddy Beaubois (16 points) hit a floater or Jason Terry (18 points) made a J to keep it close, Memphis responded with a layup … Ryan Anderson had 23 and 15 as Orlando survived John Wall‘s 33 to beat Washington, 102-95. Hopefully Stan Van Gundy was blowing him kisses in the locker room after that rebounding effort … And Denver got back on track with a 104-95 win over Portland after the Nuggs had seven guys in double figures, paced by Ty Lawson‘s 18 … Keep reading to hear how Darth Vader and Kobe Bryant are connected …

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  • http://ufl.edu Big Freeze

    Yo, the top two comments on that Iggy dunk video are hilarious!

  • Stradio

    Normally I wouldn’t just point out a typo, but on the GS-ATL score it says 85-52, which made me do a hard double take… The sad thing is, I actually could have believed it for a second if i knew otherwise due to the lack of jeering surrounding the statement. The Hawks are definitely one of those Jekyll and Hyde type teams though.

  • http://www.bettlejuiceXs3.com Chicagorilla

    I’m gonna go out on a limb and say Derrick Rose makes the 1st of many All-defense teams in his career this year.

    I know it hasn’t been publisized really, but the guy has stepped up big time on the defensive end of the floor. He’s not just holding his own, he’s been shutting putting down and make game saving plays. I don’t know how many charges he’s taken, but he clearly has made an effort to do that this year.

    Anyway, thats my 2cents.

    Thanks for the free League Pass NBA. Now i my legs are sore from sitting down watching games for 6hrs non-stop including the UNC/Maryland game.

  • j10

    I’ll give a rare props to Rondo from going scoreless to triple double the next game. still dont like him though.

  • sh!tfaced

    really tough watching philly play close games… seems like none of them have that true take charge mentality. they need a consistent closer.

  • nyk

    the knicks that showed up in the 2nd half… everything except STAT was clicking, if that team and a healthy Amar’e Stoudemire shows up in the playoffs, i think that would def. upset 3rd/4th seed in the East provided they don’t end up seeding 7th or 8th.

    i just wish the dumbass Dolan won’t decide to blow up this current team. yes with Melo included. it seems like they have a healthy chemistry developing right now…

  • reef

    Rose eats your favorite point guard for breakfast

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7Er5TsQrGg alf (from melmak)

    Now that it has come out in the open that Rajon Rondo is being shopped, I guess all those talks that he would end up in a Jazz uniform before the trade deadline together with Ray Allen does really have some truth in them.

    Utah could go to the second round in the playoffs with a starting unit of Rondo, Allen, Hayward, Milsap, and Jefferson.

    I am assuming the Jazz will give Boston their $10 million trade exception, Devin Harris, CJ Miles, and one of their draft picks.

    Can we all agree that Amar’e Stoudemire’s best days as an elite (?) basketball player are done?

    Are NBA players allowed to wear masks that have designs? Or even colored? How about a batman type of protective mask? Just wondering.

  • stefan

    This MVP – All-Star comparison sounds harsh to me. Parker has similar stats with Rose this season; he had 42, 37, 34 points games, leading the Spurs to the 11 game winning streak. Rose may be the MVP but he does have some great players and pieces around him. Parker has crap.

    Parker and Rose should be ranked the same on an MVP scale this season.

  • mgoss79

    I like how you skip over the fact that Philly played lock down D in the second half on KD and Westbrook. If Philly would’ve made a shot or two and got the win what would you be saying? The Thunder are supposedly the best team in the West and Philly took them to the wire. The only thing Philly is missing is a go to scorer. They signed Iguodala as that guy but obviously he’s not. If they had that guy then they would be serious contenders to win the East. They were the only team last year to not back down and be afraid of Miami.

  • mgoss79

    Nevermind the fact that Durant shouldn’t be trying to act tough on anybody. He looked silly and when he pushed ET he actually moved himself back instead of ET going anywhere. Durant might want to bulk up before he goes trying to get in altercations. That’s why they brought in Perkins – cause there are no tough guys on the Thunder.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    Good question about the mask thing. I doubt they can have designs on them, but if they could someone NEEDS to bust out an Ultimate Warrior facepaint mask.

    @stefan: “Rose may be the MVP but he does have some great players and pieces around him.”
    Do you mind naming these GREAT players?

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    And Shabazz Muhammad’s amateur status is in jeopardy. From what I’ve read the NCAA is out of line.

    A friend of the family, who they knew before Shabazz was being scouted (grade 7), paid for their visit to a school, and the family disclosed that fact to the NCAA. The NCAA contacted them about it, and everything was okay. 2 years later the NCAA comes out and says there was a problem. Why now? Why did they let him play ball for 2 years and climb the prep rankings to #1 before questioning his eligibility.

  • Ian

    agree not only that parker must be ahead of rose for the mvp this year. they also forgot to mention that parker had 9 assists and 6 boards compared to 4 and 1 from rose who also took 8 more shots. the better all around team won last night period. dime please dont make it sound like the final mvp cant play rose when we all have seen him knock the shit outta nash , billups , williams , cp3 in the playoffs. rose had his full team parker was missing his best player.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    This has to be the most teams in the nba where it’s “anyone can take it in the end”. Sooo many good teams. It’s exciting as hell.

    About my knicks. I truly hate that people are blaming amare’s down season on carmelo. Do you think amare thinks that? That would be the ultimate crutch. I don’t think it will be easy for those who don’t have an affinity toward the knicks to come to the realization that amare simply isn’t playing well.

    While watching the pregame of ny-vs-cle, the guys were saying how amare’s slow start could be blamed on the fact he added sooo much muscle to his frame in the offseason, something he isn’t used to playing with. Amare’s game is predicated of being quicker, swifter and more explosive than the guy who is guarding him. Amare thought adding the muscle would help him get through the entire season, but it has slighted his true game.

    Amare has come out and said that the 6 months away from basketball could be a huge reason. I had faith he would turn it around and I still do. Amare believes he will be fine. He told his teammates not to worry about him. When carmelo asked what he could do to assist in amare’s awakening, he told Mel he’d be fine and assured him to play his game. when a reporter asked amare what we should expect of him in the second half of the season he simply replied: “Stay Tuned”.

    Amare. NY loves you. Now, get back to being the athlete we know you are.

    Anyway……….that lakers heat game will be fun. Amazing how a concussion can’t take kobe out. It feels good knowing my favorite player may be able to take a bullet wound and would still be looking for a way to play basketball. It don’t get no betta.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    Jay…you getting on him for using the word great. Someone yesterday called someone a shitty coach. When do we take the words guys use to the T? Do we just pick and choose? I just think it’s pretty funny. When he said great, I just got the idea of good team cohesion. Someone called someone a SHITTY coach. Do we take that by definition? If so, he should not have a job in the nba. But, I’ll giv stefan a pass for using great, because we all know chicago does not have great players persay. They are just great at what they do if that made sense. Didn’t want to get in the middle of that. Lol whatever.

  • First & Foremost

    @Jay, because you have to make him an example. No one cares if the 1,036th ranked player breaks a rule. It has to be a top 50 player to do it.

    Women came out of the woodwork file charges against Herman Cain… only when he decided to run for President. Had he stayed doing whatever it was that he does, none of them would have given a phuck about it.

    Basically it is the NCAA flexing their muscle only when the fight becomes meaningful.

  • white whale

    ok i don’t mind the bulls beat my spurs, i kinda expected it, even though bulls played B2B that may have helped them get in a rhythm while spurs came out rusty as hell.

    what i do mind is Noah doing that STUPID FREAKIN’ blazing guns “bang bang” shit after hitting a…W I D E O P E N… routine jump shot in the 1st half. He needs to never do that crap again, what a dipsh*t!

    you know if you hit a game-winner, fine, do a big-balls dance or clown however you like. but if you hit a normal jumper that 99% of people in the NBA should (rondo and dwight make up the other 1%), don’t be a jackass.

    could you ever imagine duncan, rose, or any other player with class doing some dumb sh*t like that?!

    yeah, it irked me. and i was hoping dejuan blair would grab noah by the ponytail and bitch-slap that george michaels mustache off his face.

  • white whale

    in spurs good news, tj ford and tiago splitter got back in the rotation last night! they had both been down with injuries. when manu ginobili comes back soon, they should have plenty of time to establish their true rotations and get in a good rhythm for the playoffs.

    people don’t remember they went on that win streak and got all those road wins without those guys, save for splitter who played excellent ball until he was hurt by blake griffin in LA.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    Hahaha white whale…

    at first it got me hype to see noah do it. I can’t remember what game it was that I first saw him do it…but now, he starting to look full of himself. I wouldn’t be surprised if noah starts doing that bang bang guns blazing shit when he knocks down two consecutive free throws….or after a breakaway layup….or after dunking on rondo. He starting to look like a kid who ate waaay too much candy and can’t control his actions. Hehe. Noah, you gotta luv it tho cuz it’s his personality. He’s just very…out there.

    Bang bang bang lol

  • white whale

    if he did it after two solid free throws (using that horrendous form), that would actually be more acceptable. hahaa

    i’m just glad the spurs have a backup PG now. it’s been like 20+ games or so without one! cuz gary neal is NOT a PG.

  • K Dizzle

    @ Dime
    “Parker looked like a pup trying to curtail Rose’s drives, and on the other end shot 5-for-16 in one of those performances where you can visibly see the difference between an MVP and an All-Star …”

    Y’all fickle as hell, dime. Now Parker’s only an all-star even tho the Bulls were rollin without Rose. Before the all-star game, Parker was the hottest point guard in the l. During a 11 gm win streak, dude put 42 n 9 on OKC; 37 n 8 on Jrue; 34 n 10 on (*cough* Toronto *cough) n 30 n 10 on CP3. Parker just had a rough shooting day but still managed 9 assists.
    Let’s be real: Rose shot 10-23 n only had 4 assists.
    He really did have more help cuz he got a better defensive team around him. Parker gets by Rose, he got long-armed Deng, Noah or Gibson waitin on him, which normally ain’t a problem for him but that floater wasn’t fallin last night.
    When D-Rose got by Parker, it was a wrap. He scored multiple times over Duncan n Splitter(who just got back).
    Good game, but when the Spurs get Manu back, that would be
    a GREAT game.

    After watchin my Lakers destroy the Wolves last night, I’m thinkin Kev Love needs to get some mvp votes. That team is ASS without him. Rubio can’t get loose. Pekovic can’t handle the top dude attention.

    ps If I hear about this dumbass Rondo for Gasol deal again, I’ll scream. We need a point guard who can at least hit an 18 footer to save his life n Gasol’s value is increasing. I’d look into the Lowry n Scola deal.

  • bigdoggchad

    Anyone else notice this about the Knicks since Melo came back? Lin doesn’t pass to Melo, or try to get him going. On fast breaks he always goes away from Melo or keeps it himself. He doesn’t pass to Melo unless it’s a last resort or it’s a called play for Melo. A more experienced PG knows to get his best scorers easy looks and get them going offensively. Part of it is D’Antoni putting Melo in the opposite corner on offense as a decoy. Not hating on Lin he is a good young PG just noticed this. It’s like they are trying to prove a point that they don’t need Melo to score to win. But come playoff time they will need Melo to score when the game slows down. We already seen what defenses will do to Lin in the playoffs(Heat).

  • K Dizzle
  • stefan

    @Ian – I agree with you

    @Jay – come on now. you probably know what I mean. Deng is finally an All-Star. Boozer is a 20 and 10 player. Noah gets a lot of love from the media although I personally think he’s not that important. I would take these three though, over Duncan, Jefferson and Blair. Who wouldn’t?

  • bigdoggchad

    I don’t think Melo touched the ball the first five minutes of the game last night. Even Russell Westbrook doesn’t freeze out Durant like that. I am not saying they need to call more isolations for Melo maybe just use him in the pick in roll more.

  • http://www.bettlejuiceXs3.com Chicagorilla


    That entire game i kept thinking “If Ginobili was playing this game would have been over in the first half”
    Bulls got an ugly win in Texas that night.

    But to your other point, DRose destroyed TP. This ain’t the first time. He averages like 30+ppg on the Spurs. He dropped 42pts on him last year before the All-star break.

    And don’t try to point out his 4ast. You watched the game right? You saw how many crips Boozer, Noah, Brewer, and Deng missed at the rim? You also saw that other than CJ Watson and Kyle Korver, no one on the team could really hit a jumper.Rip hit one shot and that was a post up on TP. The only reason the Bulls were in the game was Derrick Rose killing Parker on both ends of the court and the teams defense as a whole.
    Duncan was absolutely destroying Noah from the 2nd quarter on. Someone must have said something to piss him off. Timmy tried to go balls deep on Noah.

    I thought DIMES MvP/All-star was spot on. Parker is a good player but he ain’t no MvP. Plus i think Rose’s athleticism and size is too much for Parker.

  • stefan

    @dime – I do think you wrote that thing about Rose and Parker on purpose… “it gets the people going”…

  • bigdoggchad

    Parker is a Finals MVP. Take that over a Regular season MVP.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    @beib, you of all people would understand the mixing of words. Lol. I don’t mean this to knock you. You just say things and wind up explaining what you MEANT afterwards. So you can empathize.

    I think I would have let that pass normally, but immediately afterwards he said the Parker’s teammates are crap. Those two teams match up pretty well at every position.

    Bottomline, he said “great”, and I’d like to know in comparison to the Spurs, which of Rose’s teammates fit that description.

  • white whale

    Deng > Jefferson by like 100x.

    that’s a “greater than” sign.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    Sorry, I didn’t know what you mean. The Bulls are a better team, no question… but to call Rose’s teammates ‘great’ and turn around and call the Spurs crap is ridiculous.

    Now I know what you meant, but your meaning was lost in your first post.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    @white whale
    Sure… in math. So are you calling Deng great? or just better than RJ?

    When the Raps play the Lakers…
    Jose Calderon > Steve Blake, or Derek Fisher
    ^ i guess Jose is a great player too

    See the problem in throwing that word around? If a team is better than another team, call it what it is… they’re just better.

    Does “greatness” have no meaning anymore?

  • http://www.bettlejuiceXs3.com Chicagorilla


    I thought you were joking initially. But did you not see Duncan and Blair giving it to Noah and Boozer. Not to mention Gary f^cking NEal came in a dropped 21pts too. Watching Tim duncan outrun Boozer and Noah down court for an easy lay up tells the entire story.

    No matter what the hype or media says, if you watched the game the difference was obvious.

    You can defend Tony Parker, i have no problem with that. Just don’t go off the deep end by saying Rose has “Great” teammates. The more appropriate term is Rose has “Willing’ teammates. Guys that are willing to accept their role and by into the team and follow Rose/Thibs. But the same goes for Parker with his teammates and Popavich (and Pop may be the best coach in the NBA).

    Please tell me you watched the Bulls game. At the end of the second quarter Rose drives the lane and has to kick it to Noah because Duncan cut him off. Noah catches the ball on the extended elbow with about 10seconds left on the shot clock. I’m almost positive Noah had a mini-stroke. He stood there wide open, with Duncan daring him to shoot by not closing out. Nothing. He did nothing for 3 seconds. Then once the stroke was over he decides to put the ball on the floor and do some weird spin/drop step that resulted in the ugliest hook shot alive. Which i think was an air ball.

    On top of that. John Lucas a.k.a Carlton Banks checks in the game with 8seconds left in the first. Usually the ball goes to Rose and he creates for himself or hits Deng for the J. Danny Green was denying Rose on the inbound so Deng threw it to Carlton Banks. Carlton then decided to not do the traditional dribble handoff to Rose and instead opted to call his own number. Dribbling the ball for 7 seconds then jacking a air ball three. Maybe he was trying to get his Jeremy Lin on. Or maybe he’s trying to impress his Dad who may have been in the stands because he used to play/coach for the Spurs and is a big name in Texas. Needless to say, that MFer didn’t come back in for the rest of the game.

  • Big Island

    Noah is allowed to do the blazing guns thing if he hits a shot outside of 5 feet. That’s the equivalent of any one of us hitting a shot from beyond half court. Guns a blazin’.

    I looked over at my GF during the Lakers game last night and said that Kobe should just get a Jason mask with blood and crap on it. I really hate the guy, but fuck. Not having Kevin Love makes a little bit of a difference for the Wolves.

    I would like to point out that all of those Memphis points in the paint came when Dirk was out. It’s because my boyfriend is such a defensive cornerstone in the league, and has been for his whole career. It’s awful that he hurt his back, but it’s great for me because I am flying to Dallas in 30 minutes to hopefully be his personal masseuse, complete with happy endings.

  • Phileus

    Nobody believes in Philly because they keep getting cock-stomped by Miami.

  • Big Island

    I think what stefan was saying is that the Bulls players are great for the Bulls, not necessarily great players. Like how a decent point guard would be great for the Lakers. Noah, Deng and Boozer are great for the Bulls because they fit with Rose. Wade and Lebron are great players, but they don’t necessarily work great together.

  • Oscarisalakerfan

    @ Kdizz

    Haha Clippers are pretty moronic. Their biggest fan gets hosed.

  • That’s What’s Up

    Parker is a Finals MVP with 3 rings. Rose is learning.

    I felt good about the spurs chances until Dengity-Deng-Dang-Dung bombed that 3 from the wing. bastard. good game, bulls were better last night.

    It could be a finals preview.

    …and Big Island, all’s well that ends well. Good luck with Dirk’s Bratwurst

  • silky

    Knicks bench has soo much potential, that’s a group that increases the lead most games. when was the last serious team you saw d’antoni go ten deep with? phx was 7-8 max. I take back wanting to stick a grenade in novaks mouth. dude is ballin. won us that game last night.

    I’m getting pretty sick of watching amare getting blown by. antawn jamison(holy fuck) was BLOWING by him. I know he doesn’t have his legs ect but he better get em back or hire mcdyess as his personal career transition coach. eery how similar their careers have turned out. at least he is still leading, if not by example. melo looks a little tuned out.
    and yeah I noticed Lin look him off a bunch of times too. looked him off right into a nice dime to someone else. suck it up bitch…. we tried it your way and lost. Tyson chandler is settling into that LJ role for NY. beard and all.

    Memphis is gonna be a tough tough out in the playoffs. 2 great bigs, a lock down perimeter defender, 2 perimeter scorers and a solid pg. maybe lacking some frontcourt depth but….

    rondo to the raptors! just for control. trade Calderon and Ed Davis or amir for him…. I’d seriously deal for him… avail on the cheap(relatively). although I’d doubt they’d trade him in-division

  • pooman

    yo yoy yo dimemag. can yall explain to me as a new yorker with twc cable provider do i just go to the 400s to get that free league pass?

  • heckler

    (frank ocean voice)

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    Jay making alotta sense. Consistency is key when trying to make a point. He right.

  • white whale

    deng made the all-star team over Josh Smith, and I think Smith is a great player. You don’t have to be approaching GOAT levels to be considered great. great means “exceptional in quality and better than most others” to me.

    anyway the whole argument of “greatness” is a semantic one.

    i wouldn’t go so far as to say the bulls have more great players than spurs.

    duncan is still an ALL-TIME great and when he gets heavy minutes he still produces roughly the same numbers, although with more jumpers now than low-post banging like he did in his prime.

    Ginobili is one of the greatest SG’s to ever lace ‘em up, but of course he did not play yesterday. when he is healthy his impact on his team’s success is up there with a kobe or wade. very few have ever had his complete skillset of:

    Playmaking, passing, dribble penetration, ability to finish, 3-point shooting, defensive instincts, clutch shooting and free throws, creativity, moxy/mojo, courage, and leadership.

    that’s the characteristics of a truly great player.

  • JBaller

    Knicks looked bad in the first half but caught fire in the second. Lin and Melo need to learn to work together. Lin’s still green and he seems to approach the game as though he is figuring it out on the floor. They don’t play with much of a concept, but as long as they keep winning it’a alright with me. They showed Melo jawwing at Lin on their way to the bench and it looked like he was bitching at him for breaking the play, so maybe they do have a concept their going for, or maybe he was just saying “pass me the damn ball!”

  • Ian

    Im not sayin parker is stopin rose im sayin parker can play him. Now if you tell me that parker always shoots like that against rose then ill be quiet. Those 29 pts sound better the way dime wrote it. Stefan is right rose only had to get by parker now parker had to go by the whole team and still managed an allround game. Dont use the roses team js crap cuz they are not he has a better team than parker easy. Best rebounding team and one o the best on defense and rose has shit to do with that. Respect for the 3 time nba champ and finals mvp. Let me know how many times a pg that takes so many shots has won a ring?

  • Ian

    Oh i do agree with manu the bulls lose

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    Sorry, i don’t mean to offend but the dumbest thing anyone can say online is, “You knew what I meant”. We don’t know eachother, and can’t see any person’s expression or body language. ALL we have to go by are our words.

    If someone says the hamburgers from restaurant X are great, and the burgers from restaurant Y are crap…. how am I supposed to know that he really meant restaurant X has a bigger selection of toppings and meat patties, but restaurant Y is still good.

  • Three Stacks

    I know the Knicks already used their amnesty on Chauncey, but if they hadn’t, does anyone think they would have used it on Amare? If they did, both Amare AND Chauncey’s salaries would come off the books this summer, and they would have had more than enough money to go after Dwight + another free agent. In fact, if they didn’t sign Tyson Chandler, amnestied Amare, and waited for Chauncey’s contract to end, they could have potentially signed both Deron and Dwight this summer. Is this accurate or am I doing the math wrong?

  • http://www.bettlejuiceXs3.com Chicagorilla

    “Parker is a Finals MVP with 3 rings. Rose is learning”

    Ummm with all due respect, what kinda Tom Foolery are you trying to pull here?

    Rose is a better player than Tony Parker. You compare them year by year and Rose is better. No matter how you twist it.
    Here is the Head to Head

    Sure Tony has 3 rings. in 2003 they were trying to trade him for Jason Kidd even though they had beaten them during the finals!
    And even when Parker won finals MVP in 07, he only put up 24ppg 3apg. Do you really think those are Finals MVP numbers to brag about?
    Go look at the games and the boxscores, Tim Duncan was the real finals MvP. He had one really bad game, but he also was a major factor in shutting down the lane on Lebron. It was disrespectful that they even gave it to TP. D.Stern had to have done this to make Parker a icon.

    Anyway, when did it become cool to throw team awards in peoples face when comparing two players?
    That would be like you trying to tell me Lil wayne is a much better rapper than Lupe Fiasco because he sells more records. Or that Drake is 10X’s the lyracist that Joe Buddens is because he outsells him in the stores.

    I’ve never liked that “count my rings” argument. If you want to throw individual awards out there then cool, i can dig that. But don’t tell me that Tony Parker is better or on the same level as Rose because he has 3 rings compared to 23yr old Rose who has none. Or that Bill Russell is better than Wilt Chamberlin because he has 11 rings or something like that, while Wilt has like 2 or 3.

  • stefan

    @JAY – I admit I should have used “good” instead of “great”.

    then I said that you probably know what I mean because I made it clear in a previous post that Rose has better teammates than Parker. it’s just my opinion and I am not going to take a lot of minutes to design the perfect comment. sorry if it was not clear enough for you.

    dime made it sound like Rose is so much better than Parker. he might as well be, but what I wanted to emphasize is that the Spurs won 11 in a row with what I think is a crappy roster. Popovich, Parker and sometimes Duncan are the main reasons why they are winning. In Chicago they went 7-2 without Rose at one point. Spurs lost by 70 or so to Portland without Parker and Duncan.

  • http://www.bettlejuiceXs3.com Chicagorilla


    If you’re saying that Rose wasn’t the SOLE reason Parker had a bad game then you should watch the game again. When Parker got past Rose on the screen and roll, he and his teammates had wide open shots. One on One, Rose shut Parker down so they started running him through screens. And even then Rose would still recover in time to make Parker take a tough shot. You gotta give him his props on that game, he was D-ing up big time.

    One of the reasons i think Ginobili would have made such a difference is because our interior D is so bad. Tim duncan was KILLING Noah. Noah also had ZERO blocks, Boozer got one but i think it was a strip. The bulls had 3 total blocks as a team, while the SPurs had 5 blocks (2 of which came from Duncan) You can not tell me that the front line of the Spurs didn’t outplay the bulls front line. Had duncan not started the game 1-8FGs (only to finish 8-21)the Spurs might have ran away with the game. This is the second night in a row Noah has been killed (Chris Kaman ate his a$$ up the game before).

    When Rose did beat Parker it was off of a screen and he would have to make some crazy acrobatic lay up over Tim Duncan, Splitter, and Blair. It’s not like he walked down the lane to wide open lay ups. Seriously what game did everybody else watch? Or are yall just guessing from the stats?

  • http://www.bettlejuiceXs3.com Chicagorilla


    Yes the Bulls had a nice run without Rose. But that was just with Rose missing.
    Your comparison to the Spurs is off. The Spurs were missing Manu, Duncan, and Parker for that game vs Portland.

    Take Rose, Deng, Noah/Boozer off the Bulls and they’d get blown out by the Bucks let alone Porland.

  • stefan

    ok, but the spurs were without manu anyway. and the way they lost to portland has to prove my point at least a little.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    Yall are tripping, Dime is not saying Rose should be ahead of parker on the MVP list this season, thus far. Even a bulls fan like me can admit that but they were saying Rose is still on a different level than parker which is definitely true. I hope people are recognizing the improved defense as well. Rose maybe a better on-ball defender than westbrook,paul, and rondo right now, yep.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    the funny thing to me is people ALWAYS have excuses for other players, but for some reason people are slurping if you bring up an excuse for ROSE, am I the only one who notices this? It might be just me.

  • http://www.bettlejuiceXs3.com Chicagorilla

    @slick ric

    Remember when Rondo was a better player than Rose but the only reason he didn’t show it was because his team didn’t need it…well his team needs it and he can’t do it.

    @everyone else

    The guys on NBAtv made some interesting points when talking about what the Cavs and Magic have done to keep their star players (LBJ/Dwight)
    They only focused on the bad trades but i looked up the draft picks too just to see.

    Orlando: drafts Dwight #1 and makes trade for Jameer at #20

    Cleveland: Luke Jackson at #10 makes trade for #30 Anderson Vajay jay

    Passed on or didn’t trade up for: #7 Loul Deng// #9 Andre Igoudola//#15 Al Jefferson//#17 Josh Smith//#18 JR Smith// #19 Dorrell Wright//#26 Kevin Martin

    Orlando: Drafted Fran Vasquez at #11
    Cleveland: no picks

    Passed on: #17Danny Granger//#30David Lee//#40Monta Ellis//#45 Lou Williams

    Orlando: Drafted JJ Reddick at #11
    Cleveland: Drafted Shannon Brown #25

    Passed on or could’ve traded up for: #8 Rudy Gay//#21 Rajon Rondo//#47 Paul Millsap

    Orlando: Drafts Reshawn Terry #44
    Cleveland: No picks

    Passed on: #45 Marc Gasol

    Orlando: drafts Courtney Lee #22
    Cleveland: drafts JJ Hickson #19

    Passed on or didn’t trade up a couple spots for:
    Javale McGee #18//Roy hibbert #17//Serge Ibaka #24// Nick Batum #25//Dee Jordan #35

    Orlando: No 1st round picks
    Cleveland: Chris Eyenga #30//Danny Green #46

    Players who are better than Eyenga and Green:
    #36 Sam Young//#37 Dejuan Blair//#39 Jonas Jerebko//#43 Marcus Thornton//#44 Chase Budinger

    Orlando: #29 Daniel Orton//#59 Stanley Robinson

    Guys they could’ve picked to make the team better:
    #39 Landy Fields//

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    @ F&F
    Re: Shabazz Muhammad
    Make him an example for what? They didn’t violate anything. They weren’t hiding anything. The family told the NCAA about their family friend paying for their trips…. and it was fine for 2 years. If it’s a problem now, they could have done this 2 years ago when they addressed the issue. The NCAA said it was okay, according to his father. The NCAA is stupid. Of course I’m assumnig the dad is telling the truth… but I always thought the NCAA is way too strict on these kids. A kid can’t work a paper-route on Saturday mornings without being scrutinized.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    Aint no real such thing as a rookie being “passed up” in a draft when it’s low picks. It’s not as if teams knew exactly how good the player would be and said…”U know what, I’d rather draft a worse player in comparison to who I’m going to pass up”. It’s called getting it wrong.

    I know one thing, if rose had parker’s brain, rose would be a much better player. I’ll leave it at that.

  • That’s What’s Up

    At Chicagorilla. I read your post and agree with you for the most part.

    Tony Parker runs a team and scores a decent amount while doing it.

    Derrick Rose is the main scorer while he is learning to run his team.

    Parker’s there, Rose is getting there.

    oh…and “Parker is a Finals MVP with 3 rings. Rose is learning” – lmao

  • control


    I didn’t get the chance to watch the game, but I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. I don’t know why Thibs doesn’t take Rose to the side and tell him “NEVER pass to Noah again, if he is farther than 4ft from the rim, DO NOT GIVE HIM THE BALL”. Like 95-97% of the Noah’s possessions outside the paint result in him burning 3-6 seconds off the shot clock with no benefit, him jacking some filthy looking MMA style shot or a turn over. He SOMETIMES catches a cutter going across the lane, but that is usually in the high post position (8-10ft), not in the 15-18ft range.

  • LakeShow84

    You cant really compare Rose with Parker..

    One is the FRANCHISE while the other would be traded by the FRANCHISE if the right scenario popped up..

    And aint no one trading Rose lol

    But seriously id pay to see Parker and Rose go head to head in the playoffs.. Parker aint no punk like that lol i bet he’d give Rose 15&5 a series..

    Anyways Kobe Bryant for MVP.. crazy what dude is doing at his age and with our team in its transitioning period.. Fuck what everyone else is talkin about BALL OUT BEAN!!

  • LakeShow84

    LMAO @ shooting a MMA style shot hahahahaha

  • Balrog (from Street Fighterâ„¢)

    Parker is a finals MVP but the Spurs lost in 1st round last year. Rose only got beat by 2 of the top5 players in the league.

    Rose is alot better then Parker. Rose is top 5 at least. I can name a lot of players better then parker.


  • http://www.bettlejuiceXs3.com Chicagorilla

    Anyone else have a real respectable opinion?

  • http://www.bettlejuiceXs3.com Chicagorilla


    People get all worked up when you say player A is better than player B. If Player B is a good all-star level player and Player A is a MvP caliber player. I don’t see how that can be debatable. It’s like im stuck in the Rondo vs Rose argument all over again.

  • JBaller


    Anybody catch Kenneth Faried kicking Kurt Thomas in the face last night? I was watching the Knicks game and my buddy who was watching the Nuggets called me to tell me about it. I missed the replay so I had to find it on you tube. I pasted the link above, but I’m not sure if it will work. Check it out on you tube if you want to see some funny shit. Faried jumps for a lose ball and kicks Thomas straight in the face. He goes down and then tries to get back up, but he looks like a boxer trying to beat the count. He’s all wobbly and his teammates have to hold him up. His lips are all droopy and his crazy eyes are, well, crazy as usual. Too Funny!

  • That’s What’s Up

    only four people on that list have rings, and one of them is Parker’s teammate.

    If you seriously think everyone on that list is better than Parker you are a fool. Also, he’s a PG – your list is full of bigs.

    what the fuck are you exactly talking about?

    Look, Parker is nice and he’s a great fit for the Spurs.

    Rose is nice and he’s a great fir for the Bulls.

    Spurs/Parker have the rings, Rose/Bulls are working for the rings. If you’re just talking some bullshit, fictitious And-1, 21, one-on-one tournament then yeah, parker probably gets beat by Rode – but it’s the NBA, 5 on 5.

    Damn fools are gonna make me pull up a calendar to see when The Spurs go to Chicago next..

  • http://www.payattnstalkers.com Chicagorilla


    D@mn, it takes ALOT to take out Kurt Thomas. Dude is one of the toughest SOB’s in this modern era of basketball.

  • That’s What’s Up

    Thomas got clocked. I don’t even know why Faried has his off foot that high up in the air. Maybe to make sure he wouldn’t bounce the ball off his own body, but damn, Thomas got clocked!

  • JBaller

    Yo Rilla, I’ll join this conversation. I hear what you are saying about comparing two players specifically by their stats. It seems to be the only way to make a true one to one comparison. But I’ll argue (as I’ve done in the past) that the whole reason to play ball is to win as a team (unless you are playing one on one). If your team doesn’t win, then all the individual stats in the world are worthless. Players need to put up numbers to help their team win, period. So a guy with a lesser box score who helps his team to victory and ultimately to win a ring can be considered better than a guy who blows up the box score an loses. Wins and rings do figure into whether an individual player is better than another. Wilt may have been the most dominant individual player of all time, but not many call him the GOAT. Jordan had great stats of course, but what people point to is the fact that he used those numbers to win games and ultimately rings. I think it all figures in, rings, wins and stats.

  • JBaller

    That said, I’d take Rose over Parker because I do believe he has it in him to win the chip, and the past does not dictate the future. Parker’s rings are part of his legacy, but a whole drawer full of rings from the past won’t help you win a ring in the future.

  • http://www.payattnstalkers.com Chicagorilla

    “I think it all figures in, rings, wins and stats.”

    I agree with that last line. I am by no way saying to discount rings when all things are even. Basketball is the one team sport where an individual can have the greatest effect on the game. Hockey, baseball, soccer, and football are geared more towards teamwork.

    In the comparison between Rose and Parker, I have no problem with people looking at their games (numbers lie) and determining who is the better player by that. But no one here is doing that. They are claiming that Parker is better because his team won chips. Discounting the FACT that he was not the best player on his team during any of those rings (Duncan should have gotten mvp in 07).

    You claim Parker runs his team better but isn’t it much easier to “run your team” when Tim Duncan, the guy whom i consider to be a top 15 all-time player, is on your team. Add in Manu and G-Pops and yo got a contender every year. Parker doesn’t have to do anything special to win. If Parker plays good they win. If Parker plays bad or below average, they still win! Other teams don’t focus on stopping Parker, as evidenced by his leading the NBA in points in the point a few years. Most teams are smart enoough to take their chances with Parker making tough floaters in the lane instead of Duncan getting easy buckets at the rim.

    Rose on the other hand has the entire defense looking at him on every move he makes being the #1 option. Rose has to twist and turn in the lane just to get up a lay up (since he doesn’t shoot many FTs consistently). Not only that, teams WANT DRose to pass the ball. Just look at the 2011 Playoffs. Indiana, Atlanta, and Miami all doubled Rose whenever the shot clock got under 10sec or he came off the pick n roll. They switched DWade and Chalmers on him all game long then stuck Lebron on him every now and then.
    When has Tony Parker ever gotten that type of attention? He never will, and that’s because of his teammates and coaches.
    Rose deals with ALL that and still puts up greater stats, and just as many wins as Parkers team.

    But going off this season alone, Rose’s team is top 5 in the NBA. And 90% of that is because of Rose. Can Parker say the same thing? There is no one stopping him from being 90% of his team. I’m sure Pop, Timmy, and Manu would love that.

  • white whale

    nobody but spurs fans ever gives tony parker the respect of saying he is one of the BEST point guards in the L. on any given night, and most of the time, he gives at least as good as he gets it from those upper echelon guys.

    to say Westbrook, Griffin, Melo, Gay, Rondo, Bosh, Aldridge are better…for god’s sake man, that is just bad. He dismantled Westbrook the other day and was going head-tohead with Chris Paul the other day in LA, a game the Spurs won. Nash doesn’t even guard Parker. and Rondo? please. Most of those other guys you cannot even truly compare due to playing different positions, but I think Parker has as much if not more IMPACT on a game as any of them.

    I guarantee you the only PG’s San Antonio would consider trading Parker for TODAY are Chris Paul and Derrick Rose. But he is just as good as (sometimes even better than) those guys head-to-head, especially in a playoff series.

  • JBaller

    Anybody read this…

    “Orlando Magic center Dwight Howard has asked the front office to pursue 16-year veteran and Phoenix Suns point guard Steve Nash”, according to CBS Sports.

    Doesn’t sound right, but maybe?

  • That’s What’s Up

    I never said Parker was better than Rose, I only pointed out that Parker is more accomplished.

    There have been, and will be, a lot of dudes who are top players of their era but never win shit. The list is already long and a good number of those cats are in the HOF.

    So, if Rose never wins shit he’ll still be in the HOF because of his stats.

    Tony Parker gets in because of his accomplishments, not his stats.

    that’s all – I like both squads and their players, but Noah’s hair is shitty

  • K Dizzle

    Lol @ Dime
    Touche on gettin this debate started. Was just a week ago when Rose was laid up with a bad back n the Spurs were on a double digit win streak with no Manu.
    I’ll say it like this:
    There’s a lot of good points in the league right now n they all killin each other on a night to night basis.
    Rose, Parker, Westbrook, Holiday, Curry, Conley, CP3, DWill, Kyrie, Rubio, Rondo, Lowry, Nash, Lin, Calderon, Wall…
    so as a Lakers fan, I’d ask you all to shut up n appreciate havin a legit point guard.

    Thank u for your time

  • First & Foremost

    @Jay, true the NCAA is overly strict, but rules are rules. When, in all likelihood the player could possibly not be a superstar the NCAA just doesn’t have a problem. They spend so much time and effort ensuring that athletes in NO WAY WHATSOEVER, can make a profit while being an athlete in their system. They can’t charge people for autographs. They can’t throw parties for themselves. They can’t already have ties to sporting agents.

    The system is wrong. BUT. It is the system in place. From their perspective, the NCAA doesn’t want other people profiting off of their product without their consent.

  • That’s What’s Up

    I’m getting my beiber on today – just going post-al on all these posts.

    Damn, that’s what a hangover and a slow day at work will do to a man

  • JBaller

    Speaking of beiber, I just saw on my google homepage that it’s that little fuck’s birthday!

    Beiber Newz, you celebrating or what?

  • white whale

    “But going off this season alone, Rose’s team is top 5 in the NBA. And 90% of that is because of Rose. Can Parker say the same thing?”

    Yes I think so. I think he can say exactly that. They are in everyone’s top 5 power rankings for the last month and that is solely due to Parker! If you don’t agree then you don’t watch enough Spurs games.

    I am not one to say Parker is > than Rose. I just think he can play him just as well as anybody.

    And I agree with anybody that says Rose has to make incredibly difficult shots, some of the ones he was hitting last night I was was just like GOD DAMN

  • stefan

    I don’t agree with comparing stats. I’ll tell you why. Take Rondo. Celtics play Detroit, Rondo has 27 fga. I watched the game, he was shooting every jump shot they gave him. In three days they play Detroit again. Rondo has 6 fga. Who know what the fuck happens in players heads and what instructions they get from their coaches. The same goes with contract years.. see VC or Turkoglu recently.. were these recently?! ok doesn’t matter.

    If players want to have good stats, they can. Parker can do it, but maybe popovich thinks it would not help his team in this way.

    Wall and Westbrook put up crazy numbers. Trade them to the spurs, I doubt they would win as many games as with Parker. You have to fit in the system and it’s not that easy.

    I will not argue for Parker or Rose and who is better. They had Lowry vs Rondo recently.. you just can’t judge such different styles of play, you can only have a preference.

    Another thing about Parker vs Rose though: nobody lets parker get layups as they don’t let rose (or at least try to). Rose goes for the contact every single time. Parker shoots teardrops and avoids contact a lot of times. Both proved to be effective. I prefer going for the and one in this case, it has the advantage that the other players get in foul trouble.

    Overall I prefer Parker in my team. I just think he is a better leader. Rose doesn’t talk too much. I don’t like that. As a pg you gotta have a big mouth. I also think it comes down to who makes better decisions. In pg cases I am very subjective and after I watch two pgs for a lot of games I get a clear impression on who takes better decisions like when to shoot yourself and when to pass. I think Parker is the better decision maker. (I am also influenced by a bulls-bobcats game when rose missed the last shot, shooting with two men on him with noah free under the basket and they lost to the bobcats by one, when I had big money on the game).

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    that’s what’s up

    you said, parker runs his team better compared to rose. i made the claim if rose had parker’s brain, rose would be a better player. i think we were on the same type of message, just said it differently. at least it seems as so.

    jballer. if you knew me, you’d see i’m such the polar opposite of justin bieber that it’s not even funny. my name on this site is a reflection of how much care i care about a name here. some of you guys probably took a few hours thinking about what name would make you look the coolest. lol i just picked something really dumb. if i knew down the road it’d have this much of an impact…smh.

    also….one point i’d like to make. a select few guys here say i contribute nothing to this site, but i am very versatile, able to discuss and bring up a wide array of topics, old, new and breaking news…..yet, whose name here appears the most today out of any day’s on average of the week only because the topic is about chicago, derrick rose and the bulls? i don’t think it’s hard to tell whose discussion interests are limited on this site. at least i am able to talk about everything.

    anyway…………knicks have a great test ahead. three tough road games ahead on the schedule against boston, the mavericks and then the spurs. anyone calling they go 3-0 in that stretch? and finally go over .500 this season? i sure hope they do.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    yall are making me lmao acting like tony parker is the reason the spurs won championships. we all know the real reason, tony may have had a good series but without the guys who’s really responsible , the spurs aren’t even getting to the wcf let alone the finals for tony parker to win a finals mvp. yall seriously dont think Rose can do what tony did with a PRIME Tim Duncan, SMH. Hell, the spurs might have six/seven championships right now if Rose played with a prime Tim Duncan.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    This always happens though, a guy becomes great and the center of attention to where the media hypes him up, people get tired of it. then they start to unappreciated his game thinking whats so special about him and he actually becomes underrated.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    Man, I’m upset I had such a busy day at work and couldn’t jump in on this Parker/Rose debate. I’ll just say that Rose is better right now, but over a 7-game series I would probably take Parker on my team and not regret it for one second. That’s just my preference, not my ranking.

    However, @Chicagorilla, I’ve gotta take part of your comments and flip it to revisit the Bird/Pierce debate from the other day. Here’s what you said about Parker/Rose, with me filling in the Celtics greats:

    “(Bird) doesn’t have to do anything special to win. If (Bird) plays good they win. If (Bird) plays bad or below average, they still win! … Most teams are smart enoough to take their chances with (Bird) making (long jumpers) instead of (McHale/Parish) getting easy buckets at the rim.”

    “(Pierce) on the other hand (had) the entire defense looking at him on every move he makes being the #1 option. Not only that, teams WANT (Pierce) to pass the ball.”

    Now I know I edited a lot there, but if you’re saying Rose deserves more credit than Parker because he doesn’t have as good of a supporting cast, doesn’t the same argument apply to Pierce being on all those mediocre Boston teams for so long while Bird had Hall of Fame teammates? Granted, Duncan is better than McHale or Parish, but is Duncan (one man in the paint) better than McHale AND Parish (two men in the paint)?

    But again, I was not then and am not now saying Pierce is better than Bird. Just that it’s not this gigantic gap between them. Bird might outplay Pierce head-to-head, and he might even do it consistently, but he wouldn’t destroy him is my main point. People acting like Bird is 10x better than Pierce, or Hakeem is 10x better than Dwight, etc., is what I’m railing against.

  • LakeShow84

    I seriously dont see the comparison lol

    You guys dont think Rose could play with Tim Duncan right now in TDs old career and upgrade the Spurs overall???

    Yeah id think he could.. Kinda like if Eric Gordon wouldve stayed with the Clips.. yeah it wouldve been nice but its f#$kin CHRIS PAUL lol

    Now flip it and say could Parker lead the Bulls all by his lonesome (as did Rose last year) to the overall seed in his conference and win MVP??

    Fllllllluuuuccckkk no lol be real guys TP is legit and he is FAR from bad but he cant do (HANDS DOWN CANT DO) what Rose is doing in his YOUNG career..

    i really dont see a comparison.. There is leaps and bounds separating the top 3-4 points guards in the league it just doesnt seem like it because they are all so good..

    And IMO Duncan also couldve won Finals MVP but Parker got to TORCH old ass Eric Snow for a whole series.. but Duncan was just as solid that Finals..

  • LakeShow84

    Imagine Rose this year or last year playing with Duncan in his prime


    Rose only gettin better.. Dude is a head shaker.. he does shit i just shake my head at lol

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    burton got him cornered with that one.

    but some may think that little respect should be given to guys on bad teams putting up good #s.

    but i like the argument you proposed tho, cuz it is really tough to perform with a bullseye.

  • control

    Rose vs Parker is pretty easy.

    Parker is kind of underrated, the guy is a solid player, and he’s PERFECT for the system. His assists are low because of the system the Spurs use. Their system is all about ball movement, and TP sets things up, initiates then usually does the pass leading to the assist pass. All the Spurs big guys have IQ (or they don’t last), so TP sets them up in the post, then they hit the cutter or open man and it’s a high percentage shot.

    Rose is the MVP, so that kind of speaks a lot towards his skills. Funny thing is, his assists should be a lot higher as well, but it’s not because of the system. It’s because his teammates miss like 10 open shots that Rose sets up each game. If they hit even 40% of those shots they should get, Rose would have another 4 assists.

    I LOVE this Rondo talk floating around. People are talking like Rondo is as good as CP3, but boston can barely get anyone to talk to them about Rondo. Rondo’s “personality and attitude” apparently are too douchey for the biggest group of douchebags in the league to handle, I can’t think of another team in which Rondo’s douchebaggary could fit into. The celts will be lucky to get a trade exception for this fuckin douche, haha.

  • http://datpiff.com beiber newz

    i luv how guys can make excuses for some guy’s lack in statistical categories but be totally unforgiving to other players (kobe).

  • http://www.payattnstalkers.com Chicagorilla


    You’re completely right about the Parker/Bird vs Rose/Pierce lines. Oh…but there is ONE thing you failed to throw in there.

    Derrick Rose…with the defense’s staring him down….won 60+ games and his team was #1 in the entire NBA.
    This year his team is top 3 in the NBA.

    Pierce on the other hand….his team fell into the lottery with the defense’s focused totally on him. And when Walker was there, Walker was just as good as him.

    So there is a major difference between what Pierce was doing vs what Rose is doing now.

    Also, I think i need to point out that Larry Bird was without question the best player on those Celtics teams. While Parker is the 3RD OPTION on the Spurs in all of their winning seasons. If Manu was playing this year then Parker still wouldn’t be the #1 option.

    You at least tried buddy, can’t blame you for trying that one.

  • http://www.zwani.com/graphics/funny_pictures/images/88funny-pictures128.jpg JAY

    I had to revisit this a day later just to read the posts…..

    …gotta say this was the best debate/argument of the year so far. Everyone kept it clean and good points all around.